Getting orders fulfilled by Kadius/Salarr

[RideTheDivide]

OK - I'm going to start the discussion on this.  Its been bothering me for months now and I want to know how other people feel.

It seems to me that it is nearly impossible to get orders filled by the two major merchant houses (I'm leaving out Kurac because I think they do actually fill orders fairly well).  For one, it can be very tough to find an agent who is willing to take your order.  Then once they do take your order it seems to take *at a minimum* a year IC to fill that order.  Many orders go unfilled for much much longer.

These two Houses hold some of the most interesting and unique gear to be had, and people are dying to have it.  But the way things stand right now it seems that all of those things are rotting in warehouses.

Have other people seen this same thing?  What are people's thoughts on why this is happening and on what the fix for it is?

Disclaimer:  I'm not trying to slam anyone - PC's or IMM's - I'm just stating what I see happening and wondering if there is a way to improve it.

[Samwise]

I have experienced much the same in the past. It seems that a lot of the time you'll have better luck teaching yourself how to make what you want before you can get it ordered and delivered. I've gone two or three IC years before getting a pair of gloves delivered. I can see maybe some intricate custom order taking an IC year, maybe even two, but a pair of gloves? I don't see why the merchant couldn't just mail in or wish up and sya "Hey, can I get a pair of gloves loaded?"

Then there's the fact that many (no specific examples here, and something more aimed to past merchants) who feel that they are better then more or less everyone. You need to woo them jus to get them to take your order, and plead with them to get them to carry through on it. How can they be making any money? I think one thing that may help is if some of their freebies were cut off, then they may be more apt to go out and earn that money, so that they can survive.

[Anonymous]

I consider getting an item (not off-the-rack) from Salarr to be one of the game's most challenging quests.  I don't know if there aren't enough people wanting to play merchants or what.  Seems like Salarr has plenty of guards (who all have nice equipment by the way) but finding a merchant...  Maybe they get scared off by people overwhelming them with requests when they show up.

Here's a suggestion:  Load some of the better equipment and weapons in the main store every week.  Make it random, maybe a couple of items, something, anything.  Put a premium on it if you wish, just get something there.  Heck, maybe it'd create a black market for the items; that would be interesting.

[Delirium]

I think the problem is just finding a merchant. When there are merchants around I have never had trouble getting what my characters wanted. Unfortunately most merchants seem to come and go rather quickly.

[Krath]

I consider getting an item (not off-the-rack) from Salarr to be one of the game's most challenging quests.  I don't know if there aren't enough people wanting to play merchants or what.  Seems like Salarr has plenty of guards (who all have nice equipment by the way) but finding a merchant...  Maybe they get scared off by people overwhelming them with requests when they show up.

Here's a suggestion:  Load some of the better equipment and weapons in the main store every week.  Make it random, maybe a couple of items, something, anything.  Put a premium on it if you wish, just get something there.  Heck, maybe it'd create a black market for the items; that would be interesting.

Damn, exactly what this guy said.

Sandor: Email the account and ask.(non-sarcastic)

[mansa]

There are many things that affect things.  And for this discussion, we're talking about loading 'special' items.

#1)  Making 'special' items special is the fact that they are -not- common.

#2)  Immortals load items.  Usually its on Saturday.

#3)  I'm sure you've noticed, but, there's been a dramatic increase in price for many items.   Ashyom, the Kadian Immortal, has been working incrediously hard to sort through the item database, and make it more realistic, within the game world.

#4)  well..this is just a bit more of #3.  Have you noticed that some items that used to have 'silver' and 'gold' in it's sdesc have changed?  What's going on here?  Well...the items are changing in order to make 'silver' and 'gold' more rare.  Because, right now, it's pretty common.  You have that order for those silver flood pants?  Hmm.  It's going to be put on hold for a bit, till the focus groups and immortals decide on how the world's items should be more fleshed out.  Big project.

[Reiloth]

Speaking as a trainee merchant for Salarr, the fact that you OOCly get frustrated is because there are VERY FEW merchants. And when there are merchants, we get swamped down in flippant requests, that require either an immense memory or lots of paper.

While I do understand your frustrations, you have to look at the other side of the...penny..? what?

We have a very difficult job of keeping everyone happy, and its nearly impossible with the gross amount of requests for random chatchkis we get.

Thats all I will say.

(And as far as Merchants in Tuluk, there are only trainees, nothing more, at the moment. It should become easier to place orders in the future when one of us gets promoted.)

[Samwise]

There are many things that affect things.  And for this discussion, we're talking about loading 'special' items.

I, myself, am not talking about custom order. I've only ever had one custom order, and it took 6 rl months to get.

#2)  Immortals load items.  Usually its on Saturday.

That's one thing I never understood. There are plenty of immortals... it makes no sense to say that none of them have the time to load objects at least a few times a week, in batches.


If I want a pair of black silk gloves, or snakeskin boots, I don't see why it should take RL weeks to order them and get them loaded and delivered. Same with a nice sword or bow from Salarr. Of the hundreds of objects from thsoe two houses that never make it into the shop, you have to pull teeth and wait rl weeks just to get one. I know a few players who don't even bother with pc merchants anymore, because they know they'll never get anywhere with them.

[Gar]

What do you guys mean by custom items and stuff?  And off the rack items?  

-Sandor

By off the rack, I meant the items that are always found in the shop after reload.  These are the common and usually lower quality items.  When you buy one of these, there is always another one waiting for the next customer.

I didn't say anything about custom orders, I just said special items.  These are the ones that are less common and are accessible only to Salarr merchants.  I'm saying that some of these should be loaded in the main shops on occasion so that the general public has a crack at them.  Go ahead and make them high priced, they'll sell.

Now, custom orders are things that you'd need to talk with a merchant about and are made specifically for you.  Let's say you want a sword painted green, 3 cords long, made of some rare creatures bones.  That's a custom order.

[Bestatte]

I'm not going to waste the staffs time with that, they obviously have plenty of work to do, if it isn't in the help files and I don't know what it is I turn here and am scorned for my sarcasm and apparent rudeness which I have yet to see myself be.

-Sandor

http://www.zalanthas.org/ArmDocs/Community/format.html
http://www.armageddon.org/general/clothing.html

There's some info on armor and weapons and jewelry too. Each of these things tells you about what the "usual" things are for the different areas of the world. So if you go to a shop and see a list of stuff, and see pretty much the same list the next week after reboot, you would know that these are the "usual" things for that area. Variations would be for Kadius, which changes colors of their items and some of the items themselves from week to week.

Whatever shows up first thing Saturday morning is the "usual" thing for that location in any given shop. Therefore, anything NOT in those shops would be unusual, and you would need to find out in-game, in-character, how to acquire it. Knowing which Merchant House specializes in which type of thing helps too, and there's pages upon pages of information on the website and in the help files to explain all that.

But then, as you said, you've already read and re-read the help files and are tired of people telling you to do what you've already done. Especially since you have done so, and have come to the conclusion that this information doesn't exist.

[X-D]

I don't know about anybody else, But I want know what a flippant request is to a merchant.

Myself, the smallest order any of my chars has ever placed with salarr or kadius was 1800 coins, the largest nearly 9000 coins. The smallest I've even seen from anybody else was still over 600, and the average seems to be around 1600. I've seen nobles order a single item for in excess of 10,000 coins and still need to wait 1-4rl months.

A couple times my superiors have went and ordered special items from Salaar, and they took quite sometime to show up... but I'm pretty sure they weren't custom in the sense that we wrote them up, but rather items that needed to be loaded, I think the problem was that they weren't loaded in time. Now, the one time I -personally- went to Salaar to get something, I got it right away, and it was a fairly customized suit of armor, that couldn't have taken more work than the average pair of Anakore gloves, or razored wrist wraps. (Both of which have funky prices and abilities... I would want them to only apply to bare-handed combat, or perhaps -much- more rare when in weapon melee)

My solution, for those middle of the road items, halfway between racked and rare, clan Imm load up a bunch of items into different crates, in a room that only the merchants themselves have access to. These crates would be separated by an OOC barrier, with one crate being "One month wait", "Two month wait", "Three month wait". That way, it can be up to the merchant to take the order, put it in, then  "wait" (Even though he can get it right away, and maybe some contracts he would be able to grab right away, you know, Lord Templar Going-to-ruin-Salaar wants a special codpiece for 300 sid, Monsuer Merchant can go grab it right away and say "Well, luckily we had one left", which would make sense, for Salaar to have -some- of most things lying around, for special cases) the time designated for the order to be completed, then grab it from the store-room and deliver. That's what I saw to a limited extent when I went to Salaar, and it would be nice if it were broadened.

[Jacques]

I've got it! Someone go kill off some of their guards, and the players can special app some merchants! Problem solved!

:blink:

What?  :twisted:

[Carnage]

If you want a special order, look around for the merchant for a few IRL days. If you can't find them, just send a mail to the clan imm and CC it to the MUD. The worst possible thing that can happen is they'll tell you to find out a merchant or that the item isn't feasible. If the item isn't feasible, you've just saved days of searching for a merchant who might forget about e-mailing in the order to an imm. Keep that in mind next time.

As to the Salarri merchant who said it was tough: How hard can it possibly be? You don't need a super-duper memory or a huge notebook for these orders. Just pull up notepad and C&P someone's order directly from their say. Or just C&P the few says they have about it, make a long -------------- line underneath it, then move on. Keep it updated to reflect whether it's been sent in and has arrived and so on. It'll get really tough if you get lazy and let it all back up. I personally would send in a weekly request with all of these kinds of things on Wednesday or Thursday, to give the imm time to figure it out for the Saturday downtime. The next step is to try and contact that person and tell them their order is ready. If you can't get them then just go around taverns and make it easy for them to find you. If nothing happens just put it into an IC warehouse or showroom.

[Delirium]

Carnage for Merchant!

[Carnage]

You know, if I was the kind of guy who was a tavern-sitter, I'd do it too. I'm an adventurer though and wouldn't be able to handle the boredom of hearing Byn sergeants telling me that they wanted a new axe every hour. If you're the kind of person who can tavern-sit, though, I say go for it.

[Cuusardo]

I've got it! Someone go kill off some of their guards, and the players can special app some merchants! Problem solved!

:blink:

What?  :twisted:

Don't make me come over there and smack you OOCly.  

[RideTheDivide]

Well, I've seen some great ideas here.  Do the IMMs read this or should I compile the best thing that have come across and email the account?

[Reiloth]

The problem is that the orders, even when sent to the Clan IMM, are not really read I think. I've sent in quite a few orders, and not to complain, but I get neither reply nor warning of these items going into the game. So basically i'm sending out a message in a bottle, and not really knowing the effects of my actions.

Salarr just got a great new Imm, so I think the orders might pick up in a bit.

Just be patient.

[Carnage]

The problem is that the orders, even when sent to the Clan IMM, are not really read I think. I've sent in quite a few orders, and not to complain, but I get neither reply nor warning of these items going into the game.

CC everything to the MUD. If you don't get a reply forward the e-mail again, including the MUD, and ask if it was received. It's intimidating, I know, but remember that other players are relying on you to do something. If it's a big problem that keeps happening, just send a polite e-mail and courteously ask if you could be notified when things are going in, so you can get into contact with the PCs and start making some deliveries.

[Hoodwink]

I have ordered non-flippant custom made items as both noblewomen and commoners, and beyond, and in every scenario the merchant PC taking my order never ever gets back with me, nor does my item ever seem to have even been created (months after the fact) -- I will admit, my online times as a European probably has a great deal to do with this but still...

So, yes, I agree with the inital poster.  I can't speak on other people's behalf but in my case special orders are 100% impossible and as such I have since abandoned the prospect of hoping for custom made gear.  If I want something I try to find an already existing (coded) item which suits my tastes, and if that doesn't happen I force myself to endure without (unless my clan immortal is willing to create me something).

It's a pity acquiring special made gear is so difficult in Arm.  Since our descriptions are (generally) permanent, I prefer to portray additional imagery and a sense of self for my character through their clothing, yet unfortunately I find the availability of existing gear rather limited.

[gfair]

I had an idea a while back to help this along.  Essentially the system was kinda like email OOC, but it would manifest in the game as one Salarri passing on a message to another about a guy who wants something.  But what the PC sees is like the IC message boards, where each entry is part of a little story.

This way, it does work just like email - one person sends in a request for contact for a job, briefly describing what that job is, and the merchant, when she or he gets on, reads the messages.  The queue would have to be short to reflect human memory, but at least once you get your message to a Salarri merchant you know that it is (hopefully) likely to be read as soon as possible.

Just a suggestion.

[Sanvean]

There's a distinction that needs to be made here between special orders and custom orders. I'm defining special orders as something that exists but is not currently loading in a shop and thus not readily available, while custom orders are items that do not already exist and thus need to be written and created.

Why either type may take a while:

The merchant may not be sending off an email the instant you place an order, strangely enough. Most people tend to consolidate orders and include them in a weekly report, which helps keep emails from getting missed or overlooked.

You may then have further lag occasioned by the fact that staff members have real lives and aren't sitting there on the game or by their email, waiting to reply - or that they may be working on other clan related matters. It's not a matter of any staff member online being able to handle it.  Each clan has a staff member that runs the clan - responsibilities that include much beyond creating items.

If the merchant isn't sure of the item or the price, again, email may need to be exchanged back and forth. For special orders, they might say "Noble so and so wants things in red silk - what do we have in that category?", while the staff member in turn would need to search the dateabase, mail a list back, etc. In the case of custom orders, they may need to ask questions like "Are we the right house to handle this? Is this a material we would have access to? Are there IC conditions that need to be fulfilled to make this order, such as a bahamet hunt or trip to Cenyr?" or even "Is this an item that fits in the game?"

If the item is a custom one, it needs to be created, and then checked by a HL+ (staff member who is at the Highlord or above level) - a system that helps us catch errors, inconsistencies, and anachronisms.

Saturdays are indeed when most staff members take care of maintenance work, since much of it can't be done while players are online. Many of the HL+ spend a good bit of our time that day checking items, npcs, and rooms in order to facilitate that.

Even when the merchant has picked up your order, the fact that not everyone logs in at the same time may also affect the amount of time it takes for her/him/it to get it to your character. Believe me, this is as frustrating for the merchant as it is for you - and they have the added bonus of many characters dying before picking up the goods - something that a merchant may not find out until weeks go by without the customer appearing to get their order.

This may sound a little harsh, but to me, it's not a big deal if your character doesn't get his pair of pocketed purple pants with grommets alongthe inseam or her blackened-bone bardiche with a corkscrew and a compass in the handle immediately. Usually, there are a plethora of items in the game already, and no one's character is running around pantless because the Kadians haven't filled their order yet. All pantlessness on Armageddon is usually a product of other factors. There is usually quite a bit of merchandise in the shops, and the fascination with getting non-off-the-rack items is sometimes unpleasantly reminiscent of people slavering over 133+ g3@r in a hack and slash.

It's my impression (and the merchant clan staff members can correct me if I'm incorrect in saying this) that they do load up assortments of stuff for people to sell - and that in most cases, other players won't buy them, but want a custom order.

Simply put, special orders are not a priority. They're a courtesy, the mint on the pillow (so to speak) - and sometimes things like putting sheets on the bed is more important.

To reply to one specific point:

That's one thing I never understood. There are plenty of immortals... it makes no sense to say that none of them have the time to load objects at least a few times a week, in batches.

1) Clans usually have only one staff member assigned to them; a few have two.
2) Staff members are not on 24/7. Many of us have jobs, houses, partners, children and assorted goldfish that demand some form of attention.
3) Loading items is not a priority. I'd much rather someone put time into
running a quest, interacting with a newbie, or otherwise adding to the game than loading items.

[Sanvean]

And, by the way, if you find a shop that does seem to be lacking, feel free to bug it and I'll take a look.

[Barzalene]

Let's all be realists.

It can be very slow to get an order filled. You need to find an in game rep of said house. Said rep has to find their imm. The imm has to get the item in game. The imm then finds the in game rep. Then the rep finds you. And meanwhile who writes the item up.


One idea, and if the imms object I'm sure they'll correct me, is to find the merchant/agent/whosamawatsis then write the imm. Tell them who you dealt with, what you ordered. If you really want it and want it right, write it up yourself, and send the desc along too.

Just a thought.