Getting orders fulfilled by Kadius/Salarr

[Anonymous]

Your second point Naephet confirms exactly what some of us are saying, a merchant who is doing their job well, will be the most successful merchant.
Those that cannot handle it, will lose their business to others who work harder at it.

[Krath]

I dunno what the hell you are all talking about. I ordered something from house Salarr THREE OOC days ago and got it yesterday. So I take back all my comments. Keep up the good work

[Impska]

I used to get frustrated with merchant houses too.

Until I played a merchant.

Playing a merchant can often consist of logging in for an hour or two and having that -entire- time be filled with people placing orders. Often unique orders.

I'm sure you can imagine... it can be very dull to have your rp time consist of ten requests for wrist razors or anakore claw gloves.

And then, when the house imm gets busy or backed up, or needs a break from the oh so thrilling job of loading up gear and giving price quotes, the merchant gets to deal with your ic bitching at them for late orders. Ic bitching, for what is essentially, an OOC matter.

Is it any wonder there aren't many merchant around? And is it any wonder they don't seem to have an interest in being on all the time?

It's not a wonder anymore to me... playing one cured me of ever wanting to burden a pc merchant with my unique whims and desires again.

[creeper386]

Someone needs to special app a Salarri Templar... Yeah. And he can sell stuff on the side... See if lots of people want to bitch at that character... Or any of their employees.


Creeper

[kiddgoth]

Just a little advice feel free to take it or not... find a merchant with the house that has the unqiue gear you crave and build a relationship with that merchant... order a couple easy items first, pay for them well and on time,giving a nice tip goes along way to getting that first order filled  buy them a drink at the bar get to know them as they fill your requests. Once you become there friend you will get the service you desire. I start right away... as soon as I log on and get situated I start looking for merchants since I know I cant afford anything I start to build the relationship.. then when I work,find, steal or kill for some sid I already have that inside track with my merchant friend in the house .

Again just something that works for me.

Peace

[flurry]

I experienced the same as Impska in terms of frustrations taken out on a merchant I was playing.   Which sometimes made IC sense, but sometimes felt like other players channeling their OOC frustration into their PCs.  

I found playing a merchant and taking care of orders difficult, and I think you'd have to experience it to understand why.   It got easier as I learned the ropes, but I think it's tougher than it might seem.

One other thing I wanted to comment on:  in my experience, "special orders" were usually filled pretty fast (inside of a week), while "custom orders" usually do take considerably longer.   But I don't remember any orders that weren't filled, except for customers that disappeared.

One thing I did experience a lot were people who asked for a particular item, and when I'd tell them it wasn't in stock at the moment, they weren't interested in ordering it.    Which I wondered if it was because they thought the order would take forever.   (Which again, I found was not the case for special orders).

[Cuusardo]

This, again, is a situation similar to people's complaint about lots of half elves.  Sometimes you see lots of them, sometimes you see none.  Sometimes you have no trouble finding a merchant, sometimes you can't find one for long stretches of time.  Sometimes you have really great merchants, and sometimes the existing merchants aren't all that great at their jobs.  It comes and goes.

[Cale_Knight]

Virtually, there are hundreds of junior merchants in both cities who can get your orders filled for you. You should be able to just wander down to the bazaar, find the Kadian shop, and place an order.

It would be nice if there were some kind of OOC mechanism for doing this, but I pity the extra workload on the Salarr/Kadius imms if that were to happen.

[Morfeus]

It is kind of funny that the main thread is three years old and the "problem" is still the same.

[The Anonymous Kank]

The solution to this is pretty simple.

Each Merchant House apparently has a list of 'special' items, already in the database, that can be sold.

All that needs to be done is to set up a very secure back-room NPC merchant that only select members of the Merchant House can access. This NPC merchant carries an unlimited stock of each of the 'special' items, and sells to the PC merchant at a price that guarantees a decent profit for the house. The PC merchant can then dicker for extra from the customer if he or she is inclined.

The NPC merchant thus defines what can be sold specially and a minimum price, all in one swoop, no IMM intervention needed.

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Now we come to custom items. Why not set up a custom item application process similar to character applications?

Only certain House Merchants (of sufficient rank) could use it.

They'd define the custom object; type, sdesc, ldesc, capacity, etc. in a manner similar to the character application process and submit it.

There would be a limit of the number of submissions that could be made for each Merchant House, after which the merchant is told that the queue is full.

The merchant could check on the status of the queue at will, and delete items from the queue if she discovers the customer is gone or changes his mind.

The Imm would simply review the item app whenever he has the time to do it, and then approve or reject them. When rejecting them, the notes the Imm makes are returned to the merchant. If approved, the item is automatically added to the database and an instance of the item appears in the Imm's inventory.

The Imm then just places the new item in whatever backroom location the Merchant House uses for the PC merchant to pick up.

It's all there in an ordered queue for the Imm, with minimal messing about necessary.

[UnderSeven]

Okay.  First of all the list of special items is HUGE.  No one npc shop could carry them all for these houses.  Second that is how it is already more or less done.  Only since it's not really feasable to have one of every item, they just have a bunch.  

This thread needs to die or get locked, I think Sanvean, literally years ago, more or less explained it.  

But incase anyone wants to know how it works, try playing a merchant.  For a game, I'd say it's a position that's almost like a job.  It's a lot harder than you'd think.

[The Anonymous Kank]

Okay.  First of all the list of special items is HUGE.  No one npc shop could carry them all for these houses.

Oh good grief.

Is it? Is it really? How can any character know about them if there are so many?

When you come down to it, even if there are five hundred special items for one Merchant House (which I expect is a vast overestimate), I would be really surprised if more than a handful ever got ordered regularly.

And it would still be possible to use NPC merchants. Please read what I write. I'm not proposing one NPC merchant to serve all the merchant Houses together. I'm proposing one per House, with that House's particular list of special items. One merchant can easily stock a hundred items if need be. That should be more than enough. The Imm could even take the policy of adding a special item into the NPC merchant's merchandise the first time it is requested. Pretty soon special item requests that have to be passed on to the Imm in charge for loading will, by virtue of simple statistics, be few and far between.

This thread needs to die or get locked, I think Sanvean, literally years ago, more or less explained it.

Maybe, but it doesn't need you to say so.[/b]

[Larrath]

I agree with what UnderSeven said.

If you make an NPC shopkeeper with all of the objects a PC merchant can order, that shopkeeper would have, at the very least, some 400 objects for the merchant to scroll through.  Do you know what it is to browse through a shopkeeper's list that spans three full screens?  Madness.

The "simple solution" I've seen above basically says that the PC merchant will need to write the special order objects personally.  First of all, this just means loading more work on a player who is probably already overworked if they're really trying to get the job done well.  Second, Storyteller staff members need their objects to be approved by a Highlord or above before they're put into the game.  The Merchant's things would probably be looked at by their clan imm (to see they're not ridiculous) and only then moved to the HLs for approval.  It's not saving that much time.

I think that more people need to understand that custom orders are pretty much equivalent to asking the staff to alter a room for you.  It can be done if you need it, but don't start changing every room just because you dug a hole in there and spilled some green dye over the side of that dune.  And as for having orders loaded, seriously, just suck it up.
If you think it's so fun and easy to help twenty PCs that all want "a helmet, and the best sword you have" and choose an object, pass it in email and then track it and chase the PC to sell it again, and then repeating that every couple of weeks, you can try it yourself.

If things aren't moving smoothly enough for you, you can slip a bribe.  There's a reason why some orders are difficult to get loaded, and this is because it would be stupid if PC merchants could just toss around objects with diamonds and other rare materials.

[The Anonymous Kank]

When you reqest a special or custom order you are asking the House to divert one of its crafters time away from what they know and put it towards a different/new design.  Expensive and time consuming for the House, both in lost labor and, if the crafter hasn't done it before, maybe even lost materials.

I'm sorry, but this attempt to justify ICly what is driven by OOC concerns doesn't hold any water.

For one thing, most often the changes requests are a minor variation on existing items. It's not like the customer is asking for something brand new to be invented, developed and produced.

Secondly, wave enough money in their faces and logically the merchants should be rushing pell mell to fill the order even if some lowly crafter has to stay up the night.

[Bogre]

I think the special item list is a lot larger than you'd think.

Think about the 10+ years of special items being written and ordered for a house.

[UnderSeven]

Obviously locking this thread isn't for me to say or I would of just locked it.  Duh.

Another couple things to look at, if merchants could instantly get at the whole house stock, which i will re-iterate, is not feasable, anyone who has played a merchant (clearly not the anonymous above) would know that.  But even if it was, what fun would playing a merchant be?  Noble x has contacted you, I want this!  you know that all of it exists on an npc, noble x knows it too, so suddenly merchants who are already given enough demand from players, suddenly are expected to drop everything and go get items now!  I have an idea, if we were going to do that, rather then having pc merchants, lets just make the npc shops carry every single item, I know, we can call it 'Walmart'.  

Second thing to keep in mind, is they're special items, SPECIAL.  Is it bad you have to wait to get them?  I don't think so.  If you could get them instantly they wouldn;t be special anymore.

so in closing, I refuse to listen to anyone complain about this again who hasn't played a pc merchant in a house.  Oh and stuck with it for a little while.

[Maybe42or54]

And noone is telling the merchant that they have to function perfectly. If it looks like what the buyer wanted it to look like, no problem, right? It is the buyers fault if they didn't describe it good enough.

[Anonymous]

If you make an NPC shopkeeper with all of the objects a PC merchant can order, that shopkeeper would have, at the very least, some 400 objects for the merchant to scroll through.  Do you know what it is to browse through a shopkeeper's list that spans three full screens?  Madness.

Oh, come on Larrath. Come on. What's next, Zalanthians don't build stairs because they're too hard to climb?

The "simple solution" I've seen above basically says that the PC merchant will need to write the special order objects personally.  First of all, this just means loading more work on a player who is probably already overworked if they're really trying to get the job done well.

Please stop and think about this for a moment. What does the PC merchant do anyway before he emails the Imm? Just write a note saying "uh... joe bloe wants a ... um, sword, yeah, with like leaves on it" and leave it at that, because he's so busy?

Second, Storyteller staff members need their objects to be approved by a Highlord or above before they're put into the game.  The Merchant's things would probably be looked at by their clan imm (to see they're not ridiculous) and only then moved to the HLs for approval.  It's not saving that much time.

No? Why do we have a character application system them? Why don't we just email our apps in and let the imms type in all the entries into the various fields, set all the flags etc. manually?

And as for having orders loaded, seriously, just suck it up.
If you think it's so fun and easy to help twenty PCs that all want "a helmet, and the best sword you have" and choose an object, pass it in email and then track it and chase the PC to sell it again, and then repeating that every couple of weeks, you can try it yourself.

If things aren't moving smoothly enough for you, you can slip a bribe.  There's a reason why some orders are difficult to get loaded, and this is because it would be stupid if PC merchants could just toss around objects with diamonds and other rare materials.

\

Just to let you know, I personally haven't tried to order a custom item for nearly a decade. But I have been on the merchant side in that time. I couldn't get a simple set of custom tents made for a noble customer in three month RL. Anything that will streamline the process for the imms can only be beneficial.

[Anonymous]

Obviously locking this thread isn't for me to say or I would of just locked it.

Then why did you say anything about it? Waste for words, waste of time to ready. Duh.

[The Anonymous Kank]

The people that post on this board have to be, by and large, the most conversative, negative and opinionated group I've ever encountered. Posting here is simply maddening. No amount of reason gets through.

So I'll leave you all to it. Armageddon is a fine game and I'm sure our characters will meet and have enjoyable RP together. See you there.

[UnderSeven]

The "simple solution" I've seen above basically says that the PC merchant will need to write the special order objects personally.  First of all, this just means loading more work on a player who is probably already overworked if they're really trying to get the job done well.

Please stop and think about this for a moment. What does the PC merchant do anyway before he emails the Imm? Just write a note saying "uh... joe bloe wants a ... um, sword, yeah, with like leaves on it" and leave it at that, because he's so busy?

In case any one else has the misconception about this, let me make this clear.  Most merchants have a back stock, and then they have the warehouse, whch can be one to two npcs, each with at least three screens full of spam worth of items with can sometimes change.  On top of that they might EVEN still have items their crafters have/can make.

So basically a merchant takes an order for a really vague group of objects, then has to cross check the objects asked for against everything they do or may already have.  Yes this can actually be a lot of work, believe it or not.  Assuming they DON'T have anything on hand (and my merchant had easily about a couple hundred worth of things in various places on hand at a given time in various places)  Then and ONLY then do they shoot the email.

But if by chance the pc merchant does have matches, or I should say possible matches, then they have to possibly get those items priced and figure out if they will fill the order.  

Now that's the player process for every single individual order that someone places.  This process can actually take a fair bit of dedicated time, when you add that the player has a real life and this is just a game, and that they probably actually *GASP* want to have fun playing this game, you might be able to imagine how it could take time, potientally a lot of time to get an order, IF everyone really just hoped to on your orders.  

Seriously, when I mentioned the number of items my char had on hand, that wasn't even a fraction of the stuff I could get loaded.  The idea is NOT FEASIBLE.  THERE ARE TOO MANY ITEMS.  furthermore, they are supposed to be special and part of ordering is supposed to simulate the process of having an item specially made and sent, materials.. ect.  

Anyway, if you have something personally to say to me, pm me rather then making everyone else see your posts directed at a single person.

[Maybe42or54]

I would actually copy the list of the NPCs into a word document and then search that when I was given the criteria from a buyer. Then add a quick description to the item and I could look up the item and find it (or not) in 5 minutes or so.

Then I would only give orders away on Thursdays, to make it easy for me.

That list got up to about 5 pages long before I deleted it when my Pc stopped.

[Angela Christine]

A text list could work too.  Players could convert that to a database fairly easily, if they wanted to.  The key thing would be that the list contain the item number as well as the other attributes.  If you know the item number it would make it easier to tell your clan imm exactly what you want, and for the imm to find the object.


Angela Christine

[Aldiel]

OK - I'm going to start the discussion on this.  Its been bothering me for months now and I want to know how other people feel.

It seems to me that it is nearly impossible to get orders filled by the two major merchant houses (I'm leaving out Kurac because I think they do actually fill orders fairly well).  For one, it can be very tough to find an agent who is willing to take your order.  Then once they do take your order it seems to take *at a minimum* a year IC to fill that order.  Many orders go unfilled for much much longer.

These two Houses hold some of the most interesting and unique gear to be had, and people are dying to have it.  But the way things stand right now it seems that all of those things are rotting in warehouses.

Have other people seen this same thing?  What are people's thoughts on why this is happening and on what the fix for it is?

Disclaimer:  I'm not trying to slam anyone - PC's or IMM's - I'm just stating what I see happening and wondering if there is a way to improve it.

While I enjoy the disclaimer, I think the root of the problem is just that we are humans and there are only so many of us.  There are only so many imms, and they can only volunteer so much of their time to make you your items.  The agents are taxed too.  You can't expect them to be on 24/7; however, I will say that some of the present agents are on quite a bit, and on that end, I have had very little trouble.  I don't mind if it takes a few days to place an order; that is the quickest it should be expected.  You could say add more imms, but then there would be less players, and not every player wants to be an imm.  Really, the only way I see this problem fixing is by promoting armageddon and increasing the player base.

[Vanth]

I think the special item list is a lot larger than you'd think.

Think about the 10+ years of special items being written and ordered for a house.

A conservative estimate of Kadian items would put the numbers easily in the thousands of items.