Discussion for Change to Storm/Darkness navigation

[BlackMagic0]

This kind of seems to make rangers shitty now.

Why play a ranger? When can be a warrior/desert walk subguild?  -shrugs-

Eh though its cool in its own right, that some these subguilds (and one magicker type) should have had these anyway!!

[LauraMars]

You guys should TRUST MORGENES.

When has he ever let us down?

[Boggis]

Why play a ranger? When can be a warrior/desert walk subguild?  -shrugs-

Because a ranger is a lot more than just "desert walk"... which they're still going to be the best at too.

[BlackMagic0]

Why play a ranger? When can be a warrior/desert walk subguild?  -shrugs-

Because a ranger is a lot more than just "desert walk"... which they're still going to be the best at too.

Not really. I've played 'higher end' rangers. They got some nice things, yes, though one the best things about them. Which made a lot of people want them. Is not those. Its the ability to know where you are at all times, and be able to lead parties through the storms.  From what I heard, is with the new code/skill, can not lead people anymore at all. They get lost even if you don't, and you get lost in the lowest of the storms. Eh...

Honestly does not matter anyways, not for my current pc.

I am leaving it up to Morgs, sure he will not let us down this time, never yet.

[evil_erdlu]

.....

They're still more observant than warriors. They're still better riders than warriors can ever become and that includes taming wild mounts. They're still the only ones that can 'wilderness-quit'. They still, though modest, receive healing and poisoning abilities. They're still the best skinners. They are still the only class that can 'forage food'. They're still the masters of wilderness-stealth and counter-stealth. They receive additional crafting abilities that warriors can't get.[edited to add]They have maxxed archery, a.k.a wilderness backstab.[/edited to add]

....

Yes.. Ability to use poisons with perfect archery that hurts real bad from afar coupled with perfect ability to hide and sneak outdoors and being able to detect the opponent is sneaking/hiding is... useless. Rangers could only stay alive becuse they could travel around in darkness.

By the way, my fresh ranger had just been approved. I can assure you, it has less wisdom and agility from possibly all of your characters have. I got in a storm only after buying what would be logical to buy to save myself from a storm.

Result: Got lost only once, about 40[recounted]23[/recounted] rooms traveled.

[Cavaticus]

TRUST MORGENES.

TRUST MORGENES.

TRUST MORGENES.

TRUST MORGENES.

[Nyr]

From what I heard, is with the new code/skill, can not lead people anymore at all. They get lost even if you don't, and you get lost in the lowest of the storms. Eh...

Yes.  Rangers can't lead people through storms at all anymore.  They get lost constantly.

[DustMight]

I for one think that all ranger and warrior skills should be lumped into one class and leave it at that.  Let the players develop the character as they like.

[Synthesis]

If you think this change benefits warriors at the expense of rangers in any significant way, you've never played a good warrior or a good ranger.

A good ranger will still wtfpwn a good warrior out in the desert, storm navigation be damned.

This is just a temporary nuisance, people.  Two weeks from now when your storm nav. is maxed out, you won't be complaining about it.

[Old Kank]

Why play a ranger? When can be a warrior/desert walk subguild?  -shrugs-

If you think desert walk is what divides rangers from warriors, I think you've missed the point.  Warriors are soldiers that are good at one thing:  Combat.  Rangers are scouts that are good at just about everything you need in the desert.

To paraphrase the ranger helpfile, here are things a ranger can do that a warrior can't:  Track animals (and people), see things only 2-3 other classes can, hear things, forage food and water, use poisons, cure poisons, climb almost any surface, bandage their wounds, move through the desert unseen, and several other things.

Rangers are simply the most versatile class in the game - they can do just about anything - and giving one of their unique abilities to other classes doesn't make that any less true.

OK

[Nyr]

From what I heard, is with the new code/skill, can not lead people anymore at all. They get lost even if you don't, and you get lost in the lowest of the storms. Eh...

Yes.  Rangers can't lead people through storms at all anymore.  They get lost constantly.

Because I don't want to spread misinformation, please read this as sarcasm, and not the mean and biting kind--more like the droll, empty repeating of something that is definitely hyperbole.

[netflix]

One thing I find amusing is that 90% of peoples reasons are that rangers are still uber involove their ability to PK in the desert. 

And here I thought Arm was about more then just PK. 

[A Dry, Quiet War]

One thing I find amusing is that 90% of peoples reasons are that rangers are still uber involove their ability to PK in the desert. 

And here I thought Arm was about more then just PK. 

Arm is about more than being über.  But überness and PK ability are closely linked.

[spawnloser]

Actually, uberness is a measure of how well they can kill what would be in their way in the desert, and sometimes that happens to be a PC.  The only reason that PK is the focus is because the comparison is Ranger vs Warrior, so why not put them head to head instead of discuss which NPCs one would easily take while the other has difficulty?

[evil_erdlu]

One thing I find amusing is that 90% of peoples reasons are that rangers are still uber involove their ability to PK in the desert. 

And here I thought Arm was about more then just PK. 

A ranger is, by definition, a hunter. He kills to live. His ability to kill effectively in a desert environment is what makes him uber. (And... sweaty mudsex between the city-bred aide and the rough, hardened veteran who lives pretty much like an animal.)

So, when folks say that 'I'll rather pick a warrior and the subguild', the response 'In the desert ranger still ownz j00' is unavoidable.

Note: The board announces that I've been ninja'ed.. I'll still post.

[jmordetsky]

To all the rangers feeling really crappy - I get it. But, just provide feedback constructively and be objective. Look at it this way, even if you are totally thick and can't figure out what "gear" you should wear - in very little time the code will be tweaked and/or your rangers will have maxxxed perfect storm navigate again. I mean - how long does it take to pump sneak if you just WALK AROUND?

They made a change that really at the end of the day make the game more REALISTIC and more PLAYABLE for more players. The problems will get ironed out if you *help*. Type time, type weather, type eq then send a log.

Really - it will be okay. Chillax.

[Lizzie]

So far no problem, but so far, no opportunity to put it to the *serious* test. My one and only *true* concern is if my character actually fails that test. Because, there's just no way I'm gonna RP it out. I will use the OOC command if I have to, but I'm not going to play the "the fact that I have never failed in the 3 game-years this character has existed, was just pure happenstance and it's inevitable that my character would suddenly not be particularly good, but will be exactly perfect again, after another few RL days of spam-practicing" game.

[X-D]

First off, the requirement of gear for a person that should have an innate ability (rangers) I find repugnant. Second Some or even all of the gear is not always IC for the PC or the PC situation. Third, Morg could have and IMO should have left the ability innate in rangers while having a skill for the subs. fourth, If I would have wanted to settle for an imperfect wilderness PC I would have made something other then a ranger.

[spawnloser]

X-D, perhaps you can explain why it should be some innate magickal ability to not get lost in the storm or in the dark.  Guilds are skill-sets, primarily, or at least they are for all mundane guilds... like ranger.

[X-D]

You see it that way, I do not.

First, it has been my experiance IRL that you either have a sense of direction...or you do not. Research on the subject also shows the same thing. Some people can always know the direction they are facing even blindfolded, drugged, drunk, spun around, Some people do not.

Next, think about your PC as a person for a moment. Or at least pretend you are making a Fallout char or something.

Your growing up in your tribe/city what have you. You find you enjoy beating the tar out of people, animals what have you. You find that you are even good at it. But you also find early on that when you get out of sight of camp you have to yell for help to find it again.

Time goes by, you get old enough to join with the group/job that you are going to identify with for the rest of your life. Do you turn to the group of hunters who often have to travel alone? Or do you turn to the warriors who stay at camp guarding it and fighting off beasts and raiders, who when they travel to take on another tribe do so in large war parties?

Certain abilities, will point you in certain directions. And in a world where failing often means death, you are NOT going to pick something you cannot do well in...and if you do...well, odds are you would not make adulthood.

[spawnloser]

Okay, in that case, perhaps you could explain why everyone with a sense of direction should also have the same skill set as everyone else that has a sense of direction?

[Boggis]

First off, the requirement of gear for a person that should have an innate ability (rangers) I find repugnant.

I'm pretty sure that throughout history people who have had to regularly go through harsh sandstorms acquired bits of gear which made this difficult job more possible for them to do. They might have protested some if you sent them out in a loincloth.

Second Some or even all of the gear is not always IC for the PC or the PC situation.

Why should weather care what's IC for your character? I don't like using umbrellas too much but I get pissed on if I don't.

Third, Morg could have and IMO should have left the ability innate in rangers while having a skill for the subs. fourth, If I would have wanted to settle for an imperfect wilderness PC I would have made something other then a ranger.

As a ranger you'll start with a high level of skill once properly equipped and with a little practice you won't have to worry at all. You'll be alright with your slightly imperfect wilderness PC I think.

[X-D]

Okay, in that case, perhaps you could explain why everyone with a sense of direction should also have the same skill set as everyone  else that has a sense of direction?

Eh, I'm not fighting that point anymore, as you might have noticed by my last few posts. Fine, give it to subs, Give it to subs as a skill, whatever. I can see somebody maybe taking different routes, or having a direction sense that is not quite flawless, or maybe not a type that lets them fit with the elite hunters.

Again taking RL. My sister has a talent, She can always point towards home. You can blindfold her in a room without windows, spin her around, stop her randomly, spin her the other way, stop her randomly and she will turn and point, to within a few degrees, towards where she lives. And this woman could not tell you north from south with a compass in hand. Now, is that a ranger quality talent....No, but it still allows her to safely travel.

As a ranger you'll start with a high level of skill once properly equipped and with a little practice you won't have to worry at all. You'll be alright with your slightly imperfect wilderness PC I think.

Actually...No, I won't.

[Marc]

Stuff

Your argument is pretty weak, X-D.  Sense of direction, sure, but that's using visual clues.  Where the sun is, light vs dark horizons, familiar terrain etc.  Dollars to donuts you take anyone and put them 100 miles under the ground in a pitch-black cavern and tell them to walk 'north' they'll be unable to, outside of blind luck (your sister included).

Humans do not have an innate sense of direction like migratory birds.  Some people are better than others, but this is not some innate sense.  Your ranger is still better situated than other guilds.  It's just not guaranteed.  How horrible.

[Cavaticus]

My sister has a talent, She can always point towards home. You can blindfold her in a room without windows, spin her around, stop her randomly, spin her the other way, stop her randomly and she will turn and point, to within a few degrees, towards where she lives. And this woman could not tell you north from south with a compass in hand. Now, is that a ranger quality talent....No, but it still allows her to safely travel.

Probably could have won her a million dollars, too, back when the Randi foundation had their challenge active.