Discussion for Change to Storm/Darkness navigation

[jmordetsky]

Not sure where to put this, but I disagree with this change -- I still don't agree with the spam threads that just popped up in this forum. Please stop posting them.

Okay, np. No more posts. Thanks for you again for weighing in and remember your opinion is valuable.

[number13]

It was an all or nothing ability.  You could either perfectly get through the storm, without fail, every time, or you failed, every time.  EVERY TIME.  How is that good?

The change is mostly good.  Caravan Guide should be able to guide caravans, or failing that, at very least guide himself.

However -- I can and will defend the idea of a character being able to be good at something out straight out of character gen.  Ranger and caravan guide should be able to guide caravans without having to grind for it first.  The assumption should be, for many skills, that all the boring work took place before the character became a PC, unless the player opts into playing a younger character.

[Sephiroto]

However -- I can and will defend the idea of a character being able to be good at something out straight out of character gen.  Ranger and caravan guide should be able to guide caravans without having to grind for it first.  The assumption should be, for all skills, that all the boring work took place before the character became a PC, unless the player opts into playing a younger character.

Given the fact that ranger seems to have been the only class I can think of to have had nearly flawless capability with any skills out of the box, I'm not exactly crying over this.  If a 0 hour warrior could always disarm non-combat characters without dropping their own weapon, if a 0 hour merchant could haggle down lengths of silk to hardly half the original cost, or if a 0 day assassin could coat 19/20 daggers with terradin without failure, then I would be more willing to see eye-to-eye with your opinion that a 0 hour ranger should be able to flawlessly navigate terrible sandstorms that blot out the sun.

I see absoultely no problem with empowering subclasses just a little while requiring the wilderness gods (rangers) to need to put in a good 1-2 days before they flawlessly navigate storms.

If you want a PC to start with boosted starting skills, such as a ranger who can navigate storms perfectly at 0 hours, you can put in a special request.

[X-D]

Bah, this sucks.

Really? A 40+ day ranger now fails in storm travel...in stinging sands, During the day? Come on now.

Oh Hey, Yes, after 30+ years of living in the sands I suddenly forgot how to do it last night. No, I remember Everything else, just the one foot in front of another thing seems to no longer work.


Really now Morg, what is the reason Vet rangers are not getting the skill boosted to a level fitting play time?

[Morgenes]

Really now Morg, what is the reason Vet rangers are not getting the skill boosted to a level fitting play time?

Same reason they didn't get a boost to starting trample.  Same reason other guilds don't get starting boosts when new skills are introduced.  You're expected to play it through.  Wave your hands, call it a ret-con, whatever you like, but for all intents and purposes you never were any better at this than you are now.  Welcome to your new reality.

[KankWhisperer]

If you see me naked running in a circle in a storm pay no attention, working as intended .

[Synthesis]

I hope a certain magicker guild finally gets storm navigation.  That little detail always aggravated me beyond all rational capacity to ignore it.

[Gunnerblaster]

So... If I have a veteran ranger, whose fashioned his life around surviving and riding through the waste's worst storms, suddenly not know how to find his way through a storm - Staff, please don't start nagging at me for spam-riding through the wastes to "re-learn" how to ride a god damn mount through a sandstorm, after 10+ IC years played of doing so.

[Fnord]

Really now Morg, what is the reason Vet rangers are not getting the skill boosted to a level fitting play time?

Same reason they didn't get a boost to starting trample.  Same reason other guilds don't get starting boosts when new skills are introduced.  You're expected to play it through.  Wave your hands, call it a ret-con, whatever you like, but for all intents and purposes you never were any better at this than you are now.  Welcome to your new reality.

This is not the same.

In this instance a skill that formerly belonged to a single guild now belongs to more than one, and the original suddenly sucks at it. I'm not even playing right now and I think that is a bad decision for any kind of verisimilitude and it's the kind of decision that pisses players off. It would be like an physician suddenly not seeing tints if that became a skill. What happened, the PC got dumb over night? You were never better at this than you are now? How about perfect to complete novice in a blink. Welcome to your new reality? Really, I'd think an immortal could offer some better suggestions than the kind of placation you'd give a 5-year old.

Current rangers should have an average of their skills taken and have the new skill set there. Yes, that would be some work, but then at least they would only be less valuable instead of less valuable and pissed off OOC.

[Lizzie]

So... If I have a veteran ranger, whose fashioned his life around surviving and riding through the waste's worst storms, suddenly not know how to find his way through a storm - Staff, please don't start nagging at me for spam-riding through the wastes to "re-learn" how to ride a god damn mount through a sandstorm, after 10+ IC years played of doing so.

Ditto, though admittedly I don't have as much time on my ranger as Gunnerblaster has on his. Same point though.

[Morgenes]

Send me a log of a ranger sucking at this skill.  You are speaking in generalities and I've yet to see it.

[Twilight]

This is not the same.

In this instance a skill that formerly belonged to a single guild now belongs to more than one, and the original suddenly sucks at it.

Seriously folks.  This is -exactly- how it happened with the change to skin.  Also a flawless ranger inherent skill, made into a regular skill, that existing rangers then started at low levels with.  The precedent is well, well established going back at least 10 years (it was the first one I was around for) and probably longer.  If you didn't -expect- this to be the case I don't know what to say other than you have unrealistic expectations.  This is how it is always handled.

[X-D]

What do you consider Sucking?

I saw This...

Code Select Expand

Blowing, stinging sands cause you to lose your bearings.
Alas, you cannot go that way.

Four times in Ten rooms before I quit out and posted my last post on this thread.

One in Ten would have been Sucking in my book, Four in Ten is just down right Stupid.

[BlazinDayz]

Only input:  Add this ability to animals and npcs.  In a horrible, blinding storm the gith and halflings should be slowed down too.

Yes. And NPCs should also not be able to attack you in complete darkness.

[A20B]

Only input:  Add this ability to animals and npcs.  In a horrible, blinding storm the gith and halflings should be slowed down too.

Yes. And NPCs should also not be able to attack you in complete darkness.

Unless they/you bump into eachother.  In a giant desert room that could be an acre or more, that'd be unlikely.  Deep in a small cave that you're crawling through...much more likely.

[Morgenes]

What do you consider Sucking?

I saw This...

Code Select Expand

Blowing, stinging sands cause you to lose your bearings.
Alas, you cannot go that way.

Four times in Ten rooms before I quit out and posted my last post on this thread.

One in Ten would have been Sucking in my book, Four in Ten is just down right Stupid.

Send me a log, include what you are wearing and please include weather commands pulled across the areas you traverse.

[Sephiroto]

Finally logged in post-fix.  Feedback:

Inside a city I could see 1 room at dawn with terrible sands and didn't get lost. [Hope this isn't too IC]

I found the above slightly strange because in the desert I could see 2 rooms at dawn with terrible sands but got lost almost all the time.  [Hope this isn't too IC]

I'm finding this a little bit weird.  I like have a problem being unable to travel at all during bad storms if the duration and/or frequency was more sporadic, but at the moment I'm scared my PC is going to be confined to cities unless he or she has skills, magick, or the weather is pretty (which is less and less common these days).

I'm also in some agreement with Synthesis regarding possible changes to one or more magicker classes that are more rugged or have affiny for direction.

[Morgenes]

Finally logged in post-fix.  Feedback:

Inside a city I could see 1 room at dawn with terrible sands and didn't get lost. [Hope this isn't too IC]

I found the above slightly strange because in the desert I could see 2 rooms at dawn with terrible sands but got lost almost all the time.  [Hope this isn't too IC]

I'm finding this a little bit weird.  I like have a problem being unable to travel at all during bad storms if the duration and/or frequency was more sporadic, but at the moment I'm scared my PC is going to be confined to cities unless he or she has skills, magick, or the weather is pretty (which is less and less common these days).

I'm also in some agreement with Synthesis regarding possible changes to one or more magicker classes that are more rugged or have affiny for direction.

Send me a log please.

[netflix]

Speaking for non ranger classes... with the sheer frequency of "terrible" level sandstorms in certain city locations... while, sure, it's "realistic" that these locations have lots of storms and its "realistic" to get lost in them, I think a playability standpoint should also come in. When characters lacking this new skill can't even move halfway across a city during the middle of the day, that's gonna really kill their fun factor, with the changes in chance of now getting lost in city.

[Synthesis]

You don't get direction-randomized inside cities, no matter how bad the storm is.

Unless it's complete darkness, that is.

[netflix]

You don't get direction-randomized inside cities, no matter how bad the storm is.

Unless it's complete darkness, that is.

Agreed... in a wide open spot like the bazaar, maybe. But in city streets? There's currents of traffic, and walls nearby. It should be more or less impossible to get turned around.

[Morgenes]

You can and will loose your bearings in the city before and after this change if there's a storm in the city (ranger's aside for the before).

Note that thanks to players helping through letting me watch I have found a bug in the equipment checking piece of this that wasn't giving people that are geared properly the bonus.  Next reboot that will be in.

We are still trying to get a log showing a ranger losing their way repeatedly in a short amount of time in any storm, with our without gear.  We are still investigating and working on this.  With the exception of Rangers who were perfect before, this shouldn't be much worse than it was before at worse case, and should be much better in most cases.  I really did plan to improve playability with this change folks.

[Morgenes]

I see the problem with in-city storms, that'll be fixed with the next reboot.

[Zharal]

I think this is a great change.. I understand having umber characters and having to deal with change but really,, if you have 10+ days then you have the paticents to let the skill build up.  I've played many a ranger in my days and in truth they are a awsome class to play in many many roles, personally I think it would be cool if they get the best in this skill And I give you a big clap on the back Morgs, I think You've done alot of work with code and Its nice to see change and new code in the game I personally so love to play.

Just my two cents..

Zharal.

[Sephiroto]

Why do I lose my bearings when I try to climb?  There's a big difference between north and up/down.