I'd like to discourage...

[musashi]

You folks really get hung up on some crazy shit, sometimes.

It's okay, super-long mdescs+eq lists make my eyes bleed, too.

For some reason I get a rush of euphoria whenever I see a short but beautiful mdesc list and a similarly short equipment list of all unique-ish items of clothing. Call me crazy. I also like it when people don't wear backpacks. And when they don't wear armor in bars.

The cool man has a concise main description filled with
intelligent sounding words, perfect grammar and a nice,
Zalanthan feel.
He is using:
<worn on head>           a purple turban
<worn on torso>          a white shirt
<worn as belt>           a purple-stained belt
<worn around body>       a purple silk tabard
<worn on legs>           a white kilt
<worn on feet>           a pair of purple boots

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> think Eh ... too much purple ... if this were the real world I'd think he was gay.

[jcljules]

The cool man removes his white kilt, revealing a rainbow-leather thong.

[musashi]

The cool man removes his white kilt, revealing a rainbow-leather thong.

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> feel guilty, but aroused ... is that so wrong?

[MarshallDFX]

The cool man removes his white kilt, revealing a rainbow-leather thong.

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> feel guilty, but aroused ... is that so wrong?

Homosexuality all fine in Zalanthas.  Minus ten million karma.

But in other news, you people make me so damn self-conscious sometimes. 

[shadeoux]

The cool man removes his white kilt, revealing a rainbow-leather thong.

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> feel guilty, but aroused ... is that so wrong?

Homosexuality all fine in Zalanthas.  Minus ten million karma.

But in other news, you people make me so damn self-conscious sometimes. 

He's just jealous that HE couldn't have the rainbow thong, the tailors refused to size it, on the grounds it looks gay

[musashi]

Nah, as was said ... homosexuality is fine in Zalanthas ... they refused to size it because they were closed ... come back at dawn.

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> think (disappointed) But I need it for TONIIIGHT!!!!!

[palomar]

Maybe it was mentioned previously in this thread, but... I'd like to discourage people, and Tuluki citizens especially, from going on killing sprees in UnderTuluk. It is just as bad form as going into the Labyrinth as a southsider, if it's for the purpose to practice backstab and other combat skills.

There is social stigma attached to UnderTuluk and most people really would not want to be associated with the place at all.

Yes, there are ways to deal with this IC, and yes it will get back to the person responsible (like in the 'rinth), but I still wish people would give it a second thought before attacking people in this particular location.

[Lizzie]

100% agreed with Palomar. If you're from Tuluk, please at least TRY to pretend that you're subtle about your activities. Which brings me to my "I'd like to discourage:"

I'd like to discourage northerners from tossing subtlety out the window and thinking that being subtle means smiling when you mean to frown. Telling bold-faced lies isn't subtle. It's telling bold-faced lies.

I'd like to discourage southerners from behaving like they're subtle northern nobles. Especially the commoners.

[Dar]

I'd like to discourage southerners from behaving like they're subtle northern nobles. Especially the commoners.

Shrug. that's one of the reasons I dont like Tuluki culture. If you're subtle, then you're subtle. It isnt because you're tuluki, it's because your character is ... subtle. He can be from Luirs, Storm, or whatever. Sure if he's a grebber or a rinthi mugger and chooses to play thug-like, then he wont be subtle. But if he's some fancy assassin, an aide, or just anyone who really deals with above average commoner ... then subtlety is ... natural. Whatever city state or creed.

[musashi]

I'd like to discourage southerners from behaving like they're subtle northern nobles. Especially the commoners.

Shrug. that's one of the reasons I dont like Tuluki culture. If you're subtle, then you're subtle. It isnt because you're tuluki, it's because your character is ... subtle. He can be from Luirs, Storm, or whatever. Sure if he's a grebber or a rinthi mugger and chooses to play thug-like, then he wont be subtle. But if he's some fancy assassin, an aide, or just anyone who really deals with above average commoner ... then subtlety is ... natural. Whatever city state or creed.

To me this "subtlety" always just seemed like a way of saying that Tuluk was in general, a collectivist culture, where the apperance of harmony within the group was more important than the desires of the individual, and everyone knew it and acted accordingly.

So if someone is pissing you off, you don't punch them in the face out right because that would mess up the appearance of things. You work your aggression out in less obvious ways that an outsider coming into the city wouldn't pick up on, but most of your friends would.

This could also just be because I've spent too much time in Japan, and Japanese people are very very good at being all smiles on the outside while thinking on the inside: I fucking hate that guy! And somehow ... all of their friends seem to know and pick up on it.

[Dar]

Or maybe like during the Communist regime in USSR. Where everyone snitched on everybody else for antigovernment content in their conversations. It is pretty difficult for a Westerner to understand russian humor, mainly because to ... be able to tell good jokes without getting a friendly visit from your neighborhood University KGB, you had to ... disguise it somewhat. Which made russian humor extremely subtle.

As an example. In 60s, 70s, pretty much 'anything' western was branded to be corrupted, antisocial, capitalistic, and so on. So people who would listen to Pink Floyd or Deep Purple, might've very easily landed themselves in trouble. Getting kicked out of a University or losing a job is probably the 'mildest' consequences. But ... someone have managed to actually sneak in a tune from ( I think it was Deep Purple? Smoke over the water, or maybe something else) in the Introduction theme of the main propoganda outlet News TV program. And because nobody 'knew' or 'realized' except the people (in the know ... mostly liberal students who listened to this kind of stuff inspite of the laws), the program didnt get banned or changed untill like ... late 80s ? Now 'that' is subtle.

[Nyr]

You can be subtle anywhere.

Tuluki culture bred this subtlety thing out of desperation.  They were occupied by a foreign power.  Given their more-obvious tribal roots, they took the subtle thing to an art form, and exalted it after they drove out the Allanaki folks.  I don't think it's so high and mighty as some make it look, but it is a part of the culture.  Tuluk strikes me as both excited and loathe to change things from status quo.  That is why most changes in Tuluk are forced, not gradual.

In Allanak and Tuluk, you can state whatever you want.
In Tuluk, if it offends someone, they'll most likely handle you later, and out of sight of the public, because that is the societal norm.  Doing otherwise isn't unheard of, but deviating from the societal norm on a habitual basis probably won't be good for your continued health.
In Allanak, if it offends someone, they'll most likely handle you then and there and make sure that everyone knows about it.  Doing otherwise isn't unheard of.  There is no social structure that prohibits it in Allanak.

[Lizzie]

I just see it as a trend. Southern commoners behaving as though they were northern nobles..all chin up haughty, silk-wearing, "pretty talking" -

"Oh hello there elf, I -do- love your new wrap, is it a Halston?"

that .. high society thing, which is customarily seen in Tuluk, done by northern nobles..while they're hanging out in the Gaj. It just makes my hairs bristle. If it was just one person with an affectation, or a couple of PCs pretending at pretending - a la, goofing around ICly, that'd be one thing. But it seems to be a trend, and it just bothers me, and I discourage people from taking it on, so as not to make it as much of a trend as I perceive it to be.

[Gimfalisette]

I just see it as a trend. Southern commoners behaving as though they were northern nobles..all chin up haughty, silk-wearing, "pretty talking" -

PCs behaving that way should certainly, at least, hang out somewhere other than the Gaj.

[Synthesis]

I just see it as a trend. Southern commoners behaving as though they were northern nobles..all chin up haughty, silk-wearing, "pretty talking" -

"Oh hello there elf, I -do- love your new wrap, is it a Halston?"

that .. high society thing, which is customarily seen in Tuluk, done by northern nobles..while they're hanging out in the Gaj. It just makes my hairs bristle. If it was just one person with an affectation, or a couple of PCs pretending at pretending - a la, goofing around ICly, that'd be one thing. But it seems to be a trend, and it just bothers me, and I discourage people from taking it on, so as not to make it as much of a trend as I perceive it to be.

I haven't noticed any of this in Allanak, except possibly by a few PCs who deserve to act "better" because they're in relative positions of power and have probably received formal etiquette training.  Noble House guards and employees are working with nobles every day, and every action they take reflects on the entire House...you don't think that might possibly change the way they comport themselves in public?  GMH traders also tend to interact with high-rollers, and try to keep their profile a little cleaner than your average Bynner.

Unless you're just complaining about a relative dearth of grebbers and really lower-class commoners, it sounds to me like you've got an axe to grind against established PCs with good jobs.

PCs behaving that way should certainly, at least, hang out somewhere other than the Gaj.

This Gaj business has been done to death.  The consensus is, and always has been: "there are many reasons why people choose to go to the Gaj, and you can't possibly have enough information about every individual's situation to even begin to pass judgment."

[Lizzie]

It's what Gimf says. Not that they -go- to the Gaj. Not that they spend some time there. But that they -hang out- there. Wearing silks. Behaving as if their shit doesn't stink, behaving as if they were in Trader's, behaving superior to the people who actually belong there, such as Bynners, and elves, and thieves, and ruffians, and..other low-life commoner scum. They behave as if they're not sitting on a stool that's covered with shit-stains and puke chunks. They behave as if the bar top isn't covered with grease, slime, and filth, and their silky sleeves are just as pristine and perfect as they were before they walked in.

That's the mentality that bothers me. Not that it exists, but that it is a -regular occurrence- in the Gaj, specifically.

[Gimfalisette]

PCs behaving that way should certainly, at least, hang out somewhere other than the Gaj.

This Gaj business has been done to death.  The consensus is, and always has been: "there are many reasons why people choose to go to the Gaj, and you can't possibly have enough information about every individual's situation to even begin to pass judgment."

Chill, dude. I'm not passing judgment. I'm saying that prior to the gith invasion of Allanak, most not-completely-scummy PCs chose to hang out at the other available option (the Bard's Barrel), and then when it got destroyed, PCs had to hang out at the Gaj. But that's not true anymore; there are a couple of other good options for PCs, which only need some PCs hanging out in there in order to get plenty of traffic.

There should be a diversity of PC styles in Allanak and there should also be a certain appropriateness of behavior to the place that the hanging-out is happening. Being subtle and refined in the Gaj is silly; however, there are now a couple other good places for PCs to hang out, so they should feel free to be subtle and refined in the places which are designed for that.

If a PC's job entails meeting lots of people and making scummy contacts, then perhaps that PC could change clothes before going to the Gaj, and could do a get-in-get-out kind of operation, rather than chillin'. Similar to a Bynner who needs to go to the Azure Dragon or Trader's for a few minutes in order to see if they can score a noble or templar contact...the Bynner is not gonna then hang out in those places, even though going there to make a contact does make sense.

It's just one of those aspects of Allanak that is awesome about the place and yet doesn't get played out enough, ever. There are ways to remain separate and yet in connection.

[Synthesis]

I haven't seen anyone acting "subtle and refined" in the Gaj.  I suspect this accusation is hyperbole being used to reinforce the ghost issue, here.

Also, changing clothes is a pain in the ass, as has been discussed elsewhere.

Also, if you want to meet people and learn things, you have to put the time in.  Merely popping in and out typically accomplishes nothing.

Again, this sounds like people bemoaning a shortage of gritty PCs, which is sort of a perpetual, facile gripe.

[Gimfalisette]

Also, changing clothes is a pain in the ass, as has been discussed elsewhere.

Most PCs only need to change a few items of clothing to go from Trader's-worthy to Gaj-worthy and back. And a few-item clothing change can easily be handled with a place to store two bags, and a few macros. It really doesn't need to take more than a couple minutes. It's a pain in the ass for those couple of minutes, perhaps, but when we do it, it adds to the game world.

Also, if you want to meet people and learn things, you have to put the time in.  Merely popping in and out typically accomplishes nothing.

That, I disagree with. Otherwise nobles in Allanak would never meet anyone. And, they do meet people. Personally, I have always found that my best contacts are made through other contacts. All I need is to meet just that one PC at the Gaj (or the Sanc, or whichever tavern) who knows everyone, then go through them to get my introductions. Very little actual hanging-out is needed.

When I played my first bard in Tuluk--who had never been to Allanak--I still managed to make contacts in Allanak who were able to get me information at the snap of fingers. Going to a place and hanging out in a tavern is not the killer app of contact-making.

[Synthesis]

apples != oranges

Also, if a few items of clothing bug you so much, I suggest that the problem is yours, not the other player's.

[brytta.leofa]

Similar to a Bynner who needs to go to the Azure Dragon or Trader's for a few minutes in order to see if they can score a noble or templar contact...the Bynner is not gonna then hang out in those places, even though going there to make a contact does make sense.

No disagreement here, but I want to point out that Trader's isn't, primarily, in VNPC-land, a bar for nobles and templars.  It's too expensive and too tame an environment to be very attractive to the average Amos,  but there's nothing offensive or especially noteworthy about any clean, neatly-dressed commoner hanging out there as long as he doesn't make a ruckus.

If we had a large population of PC merchants, traders, and caravan operators raking in obscene profits from their hazardous enterprises, Trader's is probably where they would congregate.

[Cutthroat]

Similar to a Bynner who needs to go to the Azure Dragon or Trader's for a few minutes in order to see if they can score a noble or templar contact...the Bynner is not gonna then hang out in those places, even though going there to make a contact does make sense.

No disagreement here, but I want to point out that Trader's isn't, primarily, in VNPC-land, a bar for nobles and templars.  It's too expensive and too tame an environment to be very attractive to the average Amos,  but there's nothing offensive or especially noteworthy about any clean, neatly-dressed commoner hanging out there as long as he doesn't make a ruckus.

I encourage use of the Rennik Arboretum: the hangout spot that Muk Utep doesn't use.

[Gimfalisette]

apples != oranges

Also, if a few items of clothing bug you so much, I suggest that the problem is yours, not the other player's.

It's not about being bugged by it. It's about wishing other players would put thought and effort into their impact on the world that we all share. I think we all know how lovely it is when another player reacts appropriately to the virtual world and seems to really understand their PC's place in it all. Just because a course of action is expedient or easy for the player, that doesn't mean it is the best course of action for the game.

No disagreement here, but I want to point out that Trader's isn't, primarily, in VNPC-land, a bar for nobles and templars.  It's too expensive and too tame an environment to be very attractive to the average Amos,  but there's nothing offensive or especially noteworthy about any clean, neatly-dressed commoner hanging out there as long as he doesn't make a ruckus.

If we had a large population of PC merchants, traders, and caravan operators raking in obscene profits from their hazardous enterprises, Trader's is probably where they would congregate.

Yeah, but still, Trader's isn't the place for a rank-and-file Bynner. Socially speaking, there's no reason why the typical Bynner would feel comfortable in there. (Not that I have ever seen one hanging out there. But it's the basic opposite of a suave aide hanging out at the Gaj.)

PCs should simply evidence more and greater discomfort at being out of the environment which is right for their own PC. Does your mundane PC really want to take a stroll up in the Elementalists' Quarter, or hang out at a temple? Even soldiers of long service who must patrol there should probably feel still weird about doing it.

More hemotes, more emotes even, more thinks, more feels. No, I don't know that people are not doing thinks and feels, but hemotes are so rarely done as to be a breath of fresh air when they are.

[Synthesis]

It used to be outright illegal for ordinary commoners to go into the Elementalist's Quarter at all...but I digress.

The more you try to justify being bugged by people wearing the odd fancy/silk item or three, the more it sounds like you're just bugged by it.  Trying to couch it in terms of the GREATER GOOD OF THE GAME is more hyperbole.

[Gimfalisette]

It used to be outright illegal for ordinary commoners to go into the Elementalist's Quarter at all...but I digress.

The more you try to justify being bugged by people wearing the odd fancy/silk item or three, the more it sounds like you're just bugged by it.  Trying to couch it in terms of the GREATER GOOD OF THE GAME is more hyperbole.

The more you try to frame me as being really upset over this issue, the more it sounds like you feel personally attacked for some particular behavior.

I am saddened by a lot of behaviors which players typically engage in, in Allanak, which all add up to the impoverishment of the actual culture of Allanak. But I'm not interested in getting into specifics, even though I could probably list about 20.