Too direct about sex? (please read before voting)

[Salt Merchant]

Having played females, rapists, serial killers, pedophiles, necrophiles, child killers, racists, cannibals, a religious fanatics ...

I got a laugh at seeing "females" head this lovely list. Are you implying something? 

[Majikal]

Having played females, rapists, serial killers, pedophiles, necrophiles, child killers, racists, cannibals, a religious fanatics ...

I got a laugh at seeing "females" head this lovely list. Are you implying something? 

Only that I enjoy having a penis in real life and lack any sekwit urge to trade it in for a vagina. 

[musashi]

Having played females, rapists, serial killers, pedophiles, necrophiles, child killers, racists, cannibals, a religious fanatics ...

I got a laugh at seeing "females" head this lovely list. Are you implying something? 

Only that I enjoy having a penis in real life and lack any sekwit urge to trade it in for a vagina. 

Not even for a day? 

[Majikal]

Having played females, rapists, serial killers, pedophiles, necrophiles, child killers, racists, cannibals, a religious fanatics ...

I got a laugh at seeing "females" head this lovely list. Are you implying something? 

Only that I enjoy having a penis in real life and lack any sekwit urge to trade it in for a vagina. 

Not even for a day? 

Fuckers. 

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Having played females, rapists, serial killers, pedophiles, necrophiles, child killers, racists, cannibals, a religious fanatics within the realm of Zalanthas I oddly enough find myself wanting none of these urges irl. Go figure.

I find alot of these posts insulting to your fellow players,  those blessed with the epic power to separate reality from.. a text based game.

A'men brotha!

I think here at the offices of Arm, Ginka, and Utep (LLC) we're all a bit atypical.

Just because I want to do some weird shit IG, doesn't mean I'm a weird person. If I'm in the middle of such an act and I go "gone Hold on, I'm gonna go choke myself with a belt and masturbate for a minute," you then have permission to throw stones. If you think these acts detract somehow from your enjoyment of the game, then all you gotta do is, DON'T CONSENT.

[musashi]

To be fair, you shouldn't include the comma at the end of your gone message because the game will add a period automatically ... engaging in autoerotic asphyxiation is no excuse for sloppy grammer!!!

[Rairen]

If you think these acts detract somehow from your enjoyment of the game, then all you gotta do is, DON'T CONSENT.

Swinging back into the topic of the thread (which, amazingly, seems to imply that the only kind of egregious sexual activities in game involve rape), if only we could use this strategy for everything!  

The tall, lofty man says to you in pitiful-accented sirihish, "My last lover disappeared and I think she's dead.  And I've been kicked out of Salarr because the Agent is a jerk who thinks he's better than me and called me an idiot."

The tall, lofty man sobs.

The tall, lofty man says in pitiful-accented sirihish, "You probably think he's right, but..."

The tall lofty man bites down on his lip, peircing gaze locked onto your mouth.

You say, out of character:  DO NOT WANT

*** With every possible respect to people who play emotional, deep-feeling, insecure characters, of course.  Ahem.

[Lizzie]

Exept, that isn't the topic of the thread. I think that's why some of us are frustrated. To summarize:

The topic of the thread, is about the perception that players are -so- into sexual behavior with their characters, that it -seems- as though that's all you ever see. And, that this perception, or the behavior, or both, detracts from enjoyment of the game.

Edited to be more specific: that this behavior is primarily directed toward female PCs, with the OOC assumption that it is ICly appropriate to assume that female PCs are all whores, and that it's okay to use that term in a derogatory way, even though in Zalanthas the profession isn't a derogatory profession.

[LauraMars]

Why does every thread about sex turn into a thread about rape?  De-evolution is such a turn-off.

[musashi]

Because someone always seems to have a soapbox they're itching to stand on?

[Marauder Moe]

the OOC assumption that it is ICly appropriate to assume that female PCs are all whores, and that it's okay to use that term in a derogatory way, even though in Zalanthas the profession isn't a derogatory profession.

True, however, if someone makes an assumption that your character is a whore there is also a burden on you to not roleplay offense even thought your own personal cultural reaction is to be offended.

[spawnloser]

Then your entire arguement was moot, Spawnloser. Nyr had already posted, and made it -very- clear that no suggestions on changing the rape-consent policy would be entertained.

Calm down. It ain't gonna happen, and anyone who wants it can happen is just gonna have to keep wanting, cause it ain't.

First, my argument came before.  Second, my argument continued to be attacked after Nyr's post.  Everyone should know by now that I don't back down when people continue to attack me, my opinion or my argument in support of my opinion.

Having played females, rapists, serial killers, pedophiles, necrophiles, child killers, racists, cannibals, a religious fanatics within the realm of Zalanthas I oddly enough find myself wanting none of these urges irl. Go figure.

I find alot of these posts insulting to your fellow players,  those blessed with the epic power to separate reality from.. a text based game.

Oddly enough, I've played all of those too except necrophiles.  I don't find myself wanting to do it in real life either.  You're ignoring the main thrust of my argument, that I find it troubling that someone would want to FORCE such on another PLAYER and would also want to play it out.

[musashi]

Spawnloser, I don't think many people (I for certain did not) cared about or really disagreed with the main thrust of your arguement, if that was it.

What got me and likely others offended, was that the main thrust there, seemed to be accompanied every time with little comments that amounted to: People with a different opinion than the one I have about this are sick in the head, and I judge you!

Folks don't like opinions shoved down their throat in such a manner.

The only thing I could imagine is that they can't get away with it in real life so they bring it to the game.

I can NOT see any sane, well-balanced person actually wanting to enact a rape scene however, unless it is a re-enactment for educational/informative purposes.

Oh, and yes, I do assume that most of you are horny dumb-asses that aren't getting laid enough.  Remember, there's no wymynz on the intranets.  The average player of these sorts of games is a pasty, teen-ager to 20-something nerd.
   
I'm saying that players shouldn't want to play out a rape scene in the mud.  If you do, I really think you need to examine that urge.        

Judgemental, blanket statements like these offend people no matter how much moral highground you might think you have.

And people were attacking, or rather defending themselves from, these statements; not the main thrust of your arguement.

[Lizzie]

the OOC assumption that it is ICly appropriate to assume that female PCs are all whores, and that it's okay to use that term in a derogatory way, even though in Zalanthas the profession isn't a derogatory profession.

True, however, if someone makes an assumption that your character is a whore there is also a burden on you to not roleplay offense even thought your own personal cultural reaction is to be offended.

OMG you have no idea how much I agree with that, Moe. WAY too many times, you see female PCs written with obvious big boobs, obvious full child-bearing hips, obvious lustrous "please use my hair to tie me to the headboard" long hair, the kind of obvious that screams "Hi, I play muds because I want mudsex, please mudsex me" even when the player doesn't plan on actually getting sexed up online.

And then, because Zalanthan women are mostly skinny, with scars, lacking lustrous anything, and lacking support bras or any other means of preventing boobs from sagging to their bellybuttons if they get too big...and then you seet this curvy, exotic, boobalicious, fuck-me-and-spawn-my-child hips, flawless skin, except for that tiny scar on the side of your pinky just so you can pretend to fit in and not be perfect..

when someone says "Wow - she autta be a whore, she could make a fortune off that rack" - they get insulted? Gimma a fucking break. The only people who should be insulted would be nobles and templars, because it is a far too "familiar" kind of conversation to have with or about superior beings. It's the familiarity, rather than the topic, that would be insulting.

[Gimfalisette]

"Attractive enough to be a concubine / catamite" is a compliment in Zalanthas. One of my PCs was very flattered to be told that, even though she didn't agree with the assessment. ('cause I hadn't written her to be THAT pretty.)

[Comrade Canadia]

OMG you have no idea how much I agree with that, Moe. WAY too many times, you see female PCs written with obvious big boobs, obvious full child-bearing hips, obvious lustrous "please use my hair to tie me to the headboard" long hair, the kind of obvious that screams "Hi, I play muds because I want mudsex, please mudsex me" even when the player doesn't plan on actually getting sexed up online.

And then, because Zalanthan women are mostly skinny, with scars, lacking lustrous anything, and lacking support bras or any other means of preventing boobs from sagging to their bellybuttons if they get too big...and then you seet this curvy, exotic, boobalicious, fuck-me-and-spawn-my-child hips, flawless skin, except for that tiny scar on the side of your pinky just so you can pretend to fit in and not be perfect..

when someone says "Wow - she autta be a whore, she could make a fortune off that rack" - they get insulted? Gimma a fucking break. The only people who should be insulted would be nobles and templars, because it is a far too "familiar" kind of conversation to have with or about superior beings. It's the familiarity, rather than the topic, that would be insulting.

This is kind of misleading. When somebody calls an unrealistically attractive woman in Zalanthas a whore, they're not trying to compliment her with RARE exceptions. It's ooc misogyny entering into the game and then masquerading as world-appropriate roleplay. Excusing it as "But whore means a compliment!" after going "Look at that slut, she's such a fucking whore." is laughable. I'm not saying you do this, Lizzie, but I've certainly seen a lot of PCs who do.

Armag has an interesting situation where our ideas for what make men attractive fit nicely into the game, but our ideas of what makes women attractive do not. Everyone can talk about how they like rowdy, rough and tumble women, but when I look at a list of most beautiful people in the world, they are always expensively made up, fit but pliable, and curvaceous. So if you want to play an attractive woman in game (which is by no means a bad thing), you have to completely divorce your RL idea of beauty from your character - while if you want to play an attractive guy it's not much of a stretch at all.

I find the playerbase's treatment of female characters who have the entire "f-me" look to be deeply sexist. Bringing up sex around these PCs is not, however. At certain times it gets completely over the top (we think that since Zalanthans have to be 'harsh' they must talk about sex all the time), but I don't think that in and of itself is a huge problem in the game.

As for rape, if you have consent, go nuts. If you don't, stop and think of something else to do. RPing a rape scene is not about living out a personal fantasy, it's about building a narrative with a powerful, nasty scene that has significant consequences. I'm not really into that kind of RP, but two consenting adults? All the power to you. Consent is key, and I think we all agree on that.

[tortall]

Armag has an interesting situation where our ideas for what make men attractive fit nicely into the game, but our ideas of what makes women attractive do not. Everyone can talk about how they like rowdy, rough and tumble women, but when I look at a list of most beautiful people in the world, they are always expensively made up, fit but pliable, and curvaceous. So if you want to play an attractive woman in game (which is by no means a bad thing), you have to completely divorce your RL idea of beauty from your character - while if you want to play an attractive guy it's not much of a stretch at all.

I find the playerbase's treatment of female characters who have the entire "f-me" look to be deeply sexist. Bringing up sex around these PCs is not, however. At certain times it gets completely over the top (we think that since Zalanthans have to be 'harsh' they must talk about sex all the time), but I don't think that in and of itself is a huge problem in the game.

As for rape, if you have consent, go nuts. If you don't, stop and think of something else to do. RPing a rape scene is not about living out a personal fantasy, it's about building a narrative with a powerful, nasty scene that has significant consequences. I'm not really into that kind of RP, but two consenting adults? All the power to you. Consent is key, and I think we all agree on that.

Bolded the parts I agree with most. WTG Davey!

[MarshallDFX]

I'd still like to know whether threatening somebody with rape, if you're not even following through with that plot line, requires consent.  Sorry for further derail. 

Somehow that question got mashed up into people talking about rape scenes without consent

[HTX]

I'd still like to know whether threatening somebody with rape, if you're not even following through with that plot line, requires consent.  Sorry for further derail. 

Somehow that question got mashed up into people talking about rape scenes without consent

Your best bet, IMO, would be to put this question in the 'Ask the Staff' section.

I and others have already gave our opinions on whether it's okay (from an ethical point of view, not necessarily from a rule point of view).

Armag has an interesting situation where our ideas for what make men attractive fit nicely into the game, but our ideas of what makes women attractive do not.

I'm not sure if I agree with this.

What's considered attractive for a man? A rugged, muscular look I'm assuming? Because there have been threads debating the realism of such an appearance considering the average commoner's poor diet.

[Krishnamurti]

What's considered attractive for a man? A rugged, muscular look I'm assuming? Because there have been threads debating the realism of such an appearance considering the average commoner's poor diet.

I always thought voluptuous or fat women would be a good catch. They would be able to handle having children easier than your whip-thin half-starved scavenger types. It's also a touch more exotic.

[Preacher]

As for rape, if you have consent, go nuts. If you don't, stop and think of something else to do. RPing a rape scene is not about living out a personal fantasy, it's about building a narrative with a powerful, nasty scene that has significant consequences. I'm not really into that kind of RP, but two consenting adults? All the power to you. Consent is key, and I think we all agree on that.

I was going to sit quietly by and watch this discussion, until this caught my eye.

Thank you for posting this.  I had an encounter that was much, much closer to rape than I thought at the time.  Consent checked more than once, by the way.  The event was a zalanthas-shaking event for my character, allowing them an insight into their own character that would never have occurred otherwise. 

I got a thank you from the player of the other character involved, and learned that they completely understood (ig) the reason behind the whole event.  It was a very rewarding experience for the development of the personality of my character and led to changes in how they dealt with the rest of the world around them.

[Oleupata]

I'd still like to know whether threatening somebody with rape, if you're not even following through with that plot line, requires consent.

I say yes it does require consent.

Our consent rules say that no rape scenario can be played out without consent, if it is not given then all mention or thought of rape must be put aside. I think that this should rightfully apply to even broaching the subject in an IC way or using it as a threat etc.

[Comrade Canadia]

Armag has an interesting situation where our ideas for what make men attractive fit nicely into the game, but our ideas of what makes women attractive do not.

I'm not sure if I agree with this.

What's considered attractive for a man? A rugged, muscular look I'm assuming? Because there have been threads debating the realism of such an appearance considering the average commoner's poor diet.

I don't think muscular is as important as hard and tough, anything hyper-masculine, really. I understand what you're getting at here, and I think the musclebound supermen are just as silly as the clean, voluptuous women, but they aren't as much of a step outside of the game aesthetic. You feed someone well (which any one in a clan is) and make them swing a sword every day, they'll get plenty muscly. Either way, characters like this certainly get less hate than the clean, voluptuous women.

[evil_erdlu]

Err.. I always thought chubby would be attractive for men...

Really, we're in a starved world. A chubby body means, the owner has means to raise a child easily. The woman's instincts should tell her 'Go for it.'..

Mutters something like "I was chubby in uni and I had lots of girlfriends..."

And women? Large hips, large breasts.. Body hair.. Really.. those are the hints showing the woman is fertile, able to give birth and raise a child.

Of course, all of these are personal theories.

[Comrade Canadia]

Err.. I always thought chubby would be attractive for men...

Really, we're in a starved world. A chubby body means, the owner has means to raise a child easily. The woman's instincts should tell her 'Go for it.'..

Mutters something like "I was chubby in uni and I had lots of girlfriends..."

And women? Large hips, large breasts.. Body hair.. Really.. those are the hints showing the woman is fertile, able to give birth and raise a child.

Of course, all of these are personal theories.

Oh, yes. Absolutely. But unless there's an official stance on "plump = sexy" most players won't RP finding plump attractive, or even play plump characters to begin with. I completely agree that it makes sense considering Zalanthan culture and resource starvation, but it's only something we've liked in theory and have never put into practice.