Too direct about sex? (please read before voting)

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Yeah, I remember hearing something about that in history class. Back in harsher times (probably even up til the early 1900s) fat was sexy for exactly that reason. A kings daughter was likely a +sized woman because she had the luxury of eating and doing nothing all day. Men swarmed. 

On the other side, in a land like Zalanthas (which is arguably far more dangerous than medieval Rome, more because of scrab, mekillot, giant spiders, and other deadly wild life, than because of the equally tyrannical rulers, criminals, and criminal rulers) being obese could be unattractive because the person would be nearly defenseless. That being said, I could definitely see "pleasantly plump" being hawt. But this is solely up to the discretion of the player - in the style of that old argument about how a weather-worn, battle-scarred warrior was sexier than an F-me.

Back to the original, original argument: LEAVE. Haha. I'm a huge advocate of this. If you walked into a biker bar (the IRL version of the Gaj), sat down, and immediately the patrons started hitting on you, saying shit like; "Hey babe, how bout you suck me off in the bathroom?" "I got a hundred bucks, we can go out back." "Hey, Pete, get my zip-ties, we got a looker here!" "I bet you could suck the chrome off a trailer hitch."  How would you react?

Would you go to a town meeting and say "Hey, lets get  city ordinance that sex is a sensitive and undiscussable topic in public. People shouldn't be overly horny ever. And a person can't think about sex every 7 seconds (which is the IRL scientifically proven standard for men) and still be sane, functioning, contributing members of a society!"  -- Essentially, I feel this would be the IRL equivalent of what's being done here.

HOWEVER, there are IC ways to settle other players entirely, understandably, realistic portrayals of their whore-bag PCs:[/b]

1) Ask them IC to stop. (I guess you could ask them OOC too. It seems wrong to me, but then I'm on the "It ain't broke, don't fix it" end of this argument, so I'll leave that up for discussion)

2) Slip the nearby guy with the Militia patch 50 sid to settle 'dem boys down. (Equivalent of calling the fuzz IRL.) ((Oh-oh, and for the record it doesn't have to be a Private or above, as seems to be a common misconception. Though a recruit isn't crim-code impervious, his superiors will stand by his decision 90% of the time, if it's either a) realistic, or b) coin involved. I've had plenty of bynners get their faces stomped in by a templar for lipping off to my recruits before. - Off topic, but I just wanted to state it.))

3) Find a BIGGER guy. If the Byn is giving you trouble, ASK their Sergeant to put them on the leash, PAY their sergeant to put them on a leash, or use your apparent sex appeal to FLIRT their sergeant until he thinks he stands a chance of getting some if he puts them on a leash. Give him a kiss on the cheek afterwards.   Same goes with anyone who looks capable of pounding the perverts heads in.  Generally, by time a player is strong enough to tromp everyone in sight, they've given up on the blatant sexual advances of their inferiors, whether it's because they got a mate of their own, they have prestige that can't afford them the embarrassment, because at this point the women are harassing them, or cause they've made it past the 10 day mark and they've decided that now they should probably do something productive with their players.   ---    In a nutshell, show the little boys what a real man looks like. 

4) LEAVE. If you were looking for a drink - go to another bar. If you were looking to meet up with someone - find their mind and have them meet you at another bar. If you were having an interesting conversation prior to - ask the other person if they'd like to go to another bar.


If people wanna play horny, that's their right. You've met horn-dogs, and creepy men IRL, now you'll meet them IG. I think the answer lies in dealing with it as you would realistically.

[Lizzie]

Except, that wasn't the OPs concern. To reiterate again..this time using your example:

A delicate noble's female aide, accompanied by a scarred, flea-bitten female militia sergeant and a muscular, barrel-chested, long-legged female Kurac Agent all walk into the gaj, in search of potential recruits. Immediately, three of the male PCs in there, hit on each of the three females who just walked in. They don't care that one of them is not only hideous and scarred, but that she is ALSO the local police. They don't care that one of them is the Agent who can decide whether or not their character ever gets to pay a reasonable price for spice again. They don't care that the noble's aide is someone of such significant influence that she can complain to her militia companion and he would have the males arrested, tossed in jail, and left to die of thirst and hunger.

All they care about, is that all three are female PCs. What's worse, is that these three do this for every female who walks into the bar. Even worse, they do it to every female everywhere, they don't care if it's in a bar or not. They'll do it in the market when they're shopping for armor. They'll do it outside Trader's, they'll do it in the middle of the Gith War and interrupt the battle to ask a female conscriptee if she wants to get laid.

This is using your example, to point out the extreme, of what the issue is -perceived- to be. Not just that males get horny. No one CARES that males get horny. What people are caring about, is that some people are not taking into consideration the fact that "JUST BECAUSE IT IS A FEMALE DOESN"T MEAN YOUR CHARACTER IS REQUIRED TO HAVE *edited to add*: immediate, active, and public SEXUAL INTEREST IN IT."

[flurry]

the OOC assumption that it is ICly appropriate to assume that female PCs are all whores, and that it's okay to use that term in a derogatory way, even though in Zalanthas the profession isn't a derogatory profession.

True, however, if someone makes an assumption that your character is a whore there is also a burden on you to not roleplay offense even thought your own personal cultural reaction is to be offended.

Huh?

I've always found the idea that the label "whore" is a compliment, or at least not insulting, to be perplexing. Should "dung sweeper" also be taken as high praise? 

Granted, I don't consider it automatically insulting. Sure, prostitution is perfectly legal in Zalanthas. It covers the spectrum all the way from noble's perfumed plaything down to two-sid gutter skank. If you're sitting in the Gaj and this comes up, guess which end of the continuum they're talking about? So it all depends on context.

In game, when I've overheard people use it, there have been two common themes: the target was invariably female, and the context suggested that the intent was to belittle her. Admittedly, that's just anecdotal experience.

I don't really buy into the idea that the term "whore" has any particular connotation of "attractive" to the typical Zalanthan.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

There seems to be a growing trend (at least in the south) to treat every female character as a potential whore.

Back to the original, original argument: LEAVE. Haha. I'm a huge advocate of this. If you walked into a biker bar (the IRL version of the Gaj), sat down, and immediately the patrons started hitting on you, saying shit like; "Hey babe, how bout you suck me off in the bathroom?" "I got a hundred bucks, we can go out back." "Hey, Pete, get my zip-ties, we got a looker here!" "I bet you could suck the chrome off a trailer hitch."  How would you react?

Damn, should've read before I posted. Missed that one by a mile. 

They don't care that one of them is not only hideous and scarred, but that she is ALSO the local police. They don't care that one of them is the Agent who can decide whether or not their character ever gets to pay a reasonable price for spice again. They don't care that the noble's aide is someone of such significant influence that she can complain to her militia companion and he would have the males arrested, tossed in jail, and left to die of thirst and hunger.

All they care about, is that all three are female PCs. What's worse, is that these three do this for every female who walks into the bar. Even worse, they do it to every female everywhere, they don't care if it's in a bar or not. They'll do it in the market when they're shopping for armor. They'll do it outside Trader's, they'll do it in the middle of the Gith War and interrupt the battle to ask a female conscriptee if she wants to get laid.

With all due respect, have you ever actually played this game?

This is using your example, to point out the extreme, of what the issue is -perceived- to be.

I'll start believing that this post isn't about the EXTREMELY crude behavioral antics of horned up low-life PCs the minute I see a threat titled: "Will men please stop complimenting my PC and buying her drinks?" (No, I'm not talking about "whore" as if it were a compliment. I mean casual, harmless ones that gentlemanly - for lack of a better word - PCs throw a girl's way when they're trying to work their mojo.  ie: "I love that earring." "You have the most mesmerizing eyes." "Nice shoes, wanna fuck?" *snicker* Not the last one, if you couldn't tell.)

Quote from Arm.org / introductory info / overview

# Three, sometimes people are nasty. There are no rules against being mean to others that you meet, be it cheating, stealing, killing, swindling, or otherwise making a fool out of them as long as the meanness is in-character (IC).
# Four, complaints of unfairness on the part of other players will not be given an audience. If you think another character was mean to you, you're most likely right. 

Holy crap guys, does this or does this not practically scream "Shit happens, deal with it IC?"  Geeze, good thing I gave some realistic and not extremely over-done to the point of being blatantly sarcasm, CONSTRUCTIVE examples in my last post of precisely how one might do so!


Aaaand, one more quote, though it is off topic:

Straw man. This is the logical fallacy of refuting a caricatured or extreme version of somebody's argument, rather than the actual argument they've made. Often this fallacy involves putting words into somebody's mouth by saying they've made arguments they haven't actually made, in which case the straw man argument is a veiled version of argumentum ad logicam.

[Lizzie]

There seems to be a growing trend (at least in the south) to treat every female character as a potential whore. Now, yes, there's no shame in Zalanthas in being a whore, but the whores do tend to advertise themselves. Also, there's a growing trend to openly talk of wanting sex with a female character, to her face, and baldly inviting them into the sack without even preliminaries. Or even talk amongst male characters of raping a female character, sometimes in front of other female characters.

Does this make female players uncomfortable?

I do not see a such a trend. However, if it was a trend, then yes,  it would make me uncomfortable. If I felt it was a player's choice to use the game as an excuse to harass female players, by assuming that the majority of female PCs were played by females, I would not only object, but I would report it to the staff. I rarely get that impression of other players, thankfully.

[jhunter]

A delicate noble's female aide, accompanied by a scarred, flea-bitten female militia sergeant and a muscular, barrel-chested, long-legged female Kurac Agent all walk into the gaj, in search of potential recruits. Immediately, three of the male PCs in there, hit on each of the three females who just walked in. They don't care that one of them is not only hideous and scarred, but that she is ALSO the local police. They don't care that one of them is the Agent who can decide whether or not their character ever gets to pay a reasonable price for spice again. They don't care that the noble's aide is someone of such significant influence that she can complain to her militia companion and he would have the males arrested, tossed in jail, and left to die of thirst and hunger.

All they care about, is that all three are female PCs.

Actually...they might be doing it because:
a) She might be hideous and scarred but she -is- local police and I might get favorable treatment by putting in some "extra effort" to please her.
b) One of them -is- an Agent and she might hook me up with spice if I "go the extra mile".
c) That noble's aid -is- someone of significant influence and he can get favors by "working under the table".

Because there just might be other reasons for them to do so that makes it even more appealing than just a piece of ass.

[Lizzie]

Except JHunter, you're missing the point (or maybe intentionally twisting it like some others have done in this thread).

The point isn't that some males are offering themselves as playthings to potentially influential females. The point is that the males are expecting these potentially influential females to offer themselves as potential whores. Unemployed sid-miners, generic commoner "Just showed up from the Hall of Kings and haven't even changed to a decent pair of boots yet" grebbers..are expecting that it's acceptable to treat female characters as sexual objects- to the -exclusion- of other possible options. They're also doing this, while assuming that they won't get in trouble, or insult someone, by treating *all* women who show up, as personal playthings. Even if the women are potential bosses, potential ass-kickers, potential spice suppliers.

[jhunter]

The point is that your perception of the same situation is the difference. It does not mean that you are right and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. From my perception, those other reasons I listed could perfectly well be the case. Just because your perception doesn't allow you to see it from those points of view, it does not mean that they are wrong or off base. I think anyone who has a problem with it is letting RL views on the matter twist their perception of the situation. I've seen female characters do the same to male characters throughout the years as well.

[Majikal]

Where is all this crazy tavern-fuckin rapefest shit going down at because I've been missing it for awhile... it seems like this is being blown up a bit bigger than it has EVER been. I still see nearly all of this being handled ic.

I've seen a lot of the flirting go on back and forth between BOTH sexes, males in the lead and I'm sure that's a bit of reality rubbing off on the game, girls playing reserved 'come get me' pc's also being a bit of our reality rubbing off on the game. Acting as though being hit on in a bar is out of line though?

I wish this thread would die already..

[tortall]

Where is all this crazy tavern-fuckin rapefest shit going down at because I've been missing it for awhile...

I wish this thread would die already..

[FantasyWriter]

I wish this thread would die as well. Nothing constructive has been said in quite a while.

[Majikal]

The Millennium Falcon could totally beat the Starship Enterprise in a fight.

[Kol]

I wish this thread would die as well. Nothing constructive has been said in quite a while.

+1

[Kankfly]

Okay so, I'm not sure if it's brought up in this thread, I'm too lazy to read through 6 pages of posts. If it is, then I'm sorry, and you can go ahead and ignore this post.

I'm halfway through the first page of the posts, and it seems to me that most of it is focused on city based. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think asking, demanding, and even rape is based more on culture. While it probably isn't normal for a city based to get raped or dominated, sex in, let's say, Red Fang is more forced and uh, violent.

I'm a girl, and I've played a male character that treated girls like whores, guilty as charged. It didn't mean that I have a fetish for things like that. It just means that my character's sexual orientation was straight, he's an asshole, and he liked to hit on girls the wrong way, and most of it stems from his background. It's his personality, though that doesn't necessarily makes him stupid. He would refrain from lewdly checking out a hot templar, though he would probably think said templar's hot, and then immediately correct himself in fear the templar would eat his brainz.

What I mean to say is that, though it may seem to the PC oocly that a character acts like a potential rapist/stalker/etc, it doesn't necessarily mean that he is, given background, personality quirks, etc. For all you know, he's probably just likes to talk big and in reality, he can't get it up. As a player, you are only given a one dimensional view on another character, until you've spent more time with him or her, and divulged more background/personality quirks/etc from said character.

And this is my take to some of the earlier posts, sorry if the topic change seem a little abrupt.

[Shabago]

Locking on request. The thread has served it's poll purpose.