Pending Change to Charge

[Morgenes]

Just a heads up that due to some abuse we've seen with charge and how we as staff envision it should be used, we're altering the code to enforce this idea.  Charge isn't just turning your mount around and trampling the person again and again, instead you have to break free, get some momentum and come back at the person.  Once this change goes live, you will have to not be fighting the person you want to charge, nor can they be fighting you in order to get the charge off.  

Edited to add the remainder of the changes that will be coming with this:

Not to add fuel to the fire, but more to calm them, we do have more to this change than originally advertised.  Charge is getting an increase in damage to compensate for the loss of being able to do this repeatedly, and to better bring it into our idea of what charge is.

We are altering the penalties with mounted combat to make them be not as harsh, as well as adding increased chances to hit dependent on relative heights.

In addition, we are adding a new skill called trample that will be open to all highly skilled riders (yes, I said all, not just Rangers) that is more intended for trampling someone who is already down, but can be used on someone who is still standing to attempt to knock them down.  The defender will have a stronger chance of defending against this knockdown, and will be able to mitigate the damage somewhat through quick reflexes.

We agree that mounted combat isn't fleshed out enough in Arm1 to really be a viable style, but we hope that these changes will provide some meat and viability to it.  The ideas of weapon reach, and targetted locations changing would require a major change to Arm's combat and balancing to make sure it isn't overpowering.  They are great ideas, but better focused to Arm Reborn.

[Kryos]

I like this change.

[Dalmeth]

So, how will anyone ever trample another player if this change works as it's supposed to?

Not saying that it will.

[Morgenes]

So, how will anyone ever trample another player if this change works as it's supposed to?

Not saying that it will.

You will have to use charge as a combat initiator.

[Dalmeth]

You will have to use charge as a combat initiator.

Ah, right.  I remember now.   Still, I don't really understand how this works all that much differently from someone using bash again and again.

[jstorrie]

I voice my disapproval.

If you're on foot, fighting someone riding a big lizard and he knows how to make it trample you, you should be pretty fucked. Trampling ground-pounders has historically always been the main advantage of riding a big heavy warhorse, and inixes are even bigger and heavier!

If it's a balance issue I get it, I guess. Reluctantly. What's the mounted combat system going to be like in 2.Arm?

[Qzzrbl]

Agreed with jstorrie on this one.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'd rather see you lose your attacks for X amount of seconds while you do this breaking free, turning around, and charging. I don't like the idea of it only being the initiator now.

Using example numbers: After you entered 'charge', you would be subjected to a 5 second delay, during which you would not get your normal automated attacks, and then the charge goes off, imposing the same delays as it does now after the act.

The delay before charge would only apply during combat, not out of it.

That's what I'd rather see. I think it would address what you are trying to prevent, as well as keeping part of a ranger's basket-of-skills intact.

[Thunkkin]

Too bad.  Mounted combat (unless I've missed some changes) was unrealistically unattractive as it was.

[Cutthroat]

Will there be a boost to charge's power to go along with this, or will that stay as-is?

[Morgenes]

Will there be a boost to charge's power to go along with this, or will that stay as-is?

No change to the chance to hit or damage of the attack, it's already sick enough as it is.

[brytta.leofa]

Dangit, Morgenes, I...want to like this. 

I...was excited, when I saw the thread title, that someone cared enough to work on mounted combat. 

Mounted combat ... was unrealistically unattractive as it was.

[Twilight]

It would make even more sense to me, given the change, that charge could be initiated in a nearby room.   Charge tregil west.

[FantasyWriter]

It would make even more sense to me, given the change, that charge could be initiated in a nearby room.   Charge tregil west.

This Idea is TEH AWESOME!

[brytta.leofa]

My problem is that, as it stood, it made little sense to fight mounted unless you were charging successfully.  There's one other benefit that I'm aware of, but your average ranger just dursn't take the defensive penalty.

Here's the new Ranger Melee Technique, post-change:
> e
> charge figure
> flee; flee; flee; flee; flee; flee; flee
> n
> charge figure
> flee; flee; flee; flee; flee; flee; flee

Which, hey, I don't altogether dislike.  But I did think rangers were already suffering enough in combat. 

[Riev]

Basically, this just means you have to disengage, and flee, and attempt to turn around for another go...

So, 1v1 you won't have someone spamming charge which, unlike bash, seems to hit more often, and work against MUCH bigger targets. If you are fighting in a group, this is still viable, you just have to dedicate yourself to constant run and gun tactics.

I've been in fights where someone constantly charges, against things like Meks or Bahamets, and it almost never failed. Sure, it made it easier, but it was pretty overpowered.

[FantasyWriter]

Here's the new Ranger Melee Technique, post-change:
> e
> charge figure
> flee; flee; flee; flee; flee; flee; flee
> n
> charge figure
> flee; flee; flee; flee; flee; flee; flee

I think this technique makes a lot of sense IC.  I've uses it in the past (with the current code, of course) with rangers against certain large besties.

[Synthesis]

Ranger nerf?



Hehe, just kidding.  This is definitely a change that was warranted.

[Eloran]

Too bad.  Mounted combat (unless I've missed some changes) was unrealistically unattractive as it was.

[Synthesis]

Mounted combat isn't nearly as bad as you folks think it is...I think you all might just not be as good at fighting as you think you are.

[Eloran]

That's beside the point. Besides, fighting mounted is just a good way to get buff. You take more hits and miss more.

This change was simply not needed.

If charge is so abusable, why not nerf bash as well?

The best solution would have been:

Increase the delay upon inputing the command so that your opponent will be granted the opportunity to stand and flee before you receive another change to charge them. Problem solved.

[mansa]

So, rangers finally get backstab.

[tortall]

The problem I have with this.... -carru- can charge(bash) you and tumble you into the next room. They're smaller than an inix, unless I miss my guess.... Will -they- also get this nerf? Or rangers we be able to -bash- while riding? Or will rangers -get- the bash skill?

[Eloran]

Will -they- (carru) also get this nerf?

lol

[Synthesis]

If you're comparing bash to charge, you've obviously never been any good at either of them.

Charge was so much more effective and dangerous than bash (except maybe a bash coming from a half-giant), that there is no comparison whatsoever.  I've seen people charge mekillots, inix, carru, bahamets...ever tried bashing one?  Not to mention, once you're -good- at charge, you seem to almost never miss, except against targets with absurdly high agility.  With bash, you continue to fail regularly even against other humanoids.

Not to mention that while mounted and charging, you're immune to several combat techniques that can be very dangerous.

So, yeah. Charge needed to be nerfed.