Assess -v

[Eloran]

Most people don't describe themselves in sufficient detail for such subtle clues as may be apparent to appear in the main description.

o rly?

[Synthesis]

Okay...I'll give you a "probably."

Let's not argue over that point, because it's -definitely- not one either of us is going to win.

[Armaddict]

That's because sometimes it ISN'T READILY APPARENT AND HAS TO BE FOUND OUT VIA IC MEANS.

[hyzhenhok]

Most people don't describe themselves in sufficient detail for such subtle clues as may be apparent to appear in the main description.  As such, the code provides a medium for ascertaining these facts.

I haven't seen this. All the half-elves I've seen have had race-appropriate descriptions, regardless of whether or not they labeled themselves as half-elf. I trust the Imms to sort this sort of thing out--they approve half-elves who look like humans, but I'll assume they won't approve the application if your half-elf's sdesc is "a stocky, muscle-ripped man." And maybe people will be more willing to have half-elven features if they know they're not putting a sign on their character that says "assess -v me plz."

There are other issues with assess -v hinging on race. It works in reverse, which is why your solution "roll a human and play him like a half elf" doesn't work. If a PC sees a human who's tall, skinny and angular and acts like a schizophrenic loner/desperate-for-acceptance, and they assess -v, they'll never think "maybe Amos is a half elf" because the code told them that he's human. If Amos ever wants to reveal his half-elfness to somebody, they simply won't believe him.

And why is it that humans can sniff out half-elves that are masquerading as human, but not as elves? Why is it that elves can sniff out half-elves that are masquerading as elves, but not as humans? Why do humans and elves get to have this magic race determining button and dwarves, muls, and half-giants don't?

Why do you assume that people who roll half-elves but try to blend as human are twinking? Obviously, they wrote their character this way for a reason. Could it be true that people playing a roleplaying game did it for roleplaying reasons? Maybe they have an interesting idea for their character that demands an incognito half-elf? Do they really deserve to have their role spoiled by an arbitrary command, and by players who use assess -v and say, "Aha! you tried to trick me, but failed. I win!"

[Synthesis]

And why is it that humans can sniff out half-elves that are masquerading as human, but not as elves? Why is it that elves can sniff out half-elves that are masquerading as elves, but not as humans? Why do humans and elves get to have this magic race determining button and dwarves, muls, and half-giants don't?

That's the only good argument in favor I've seen so far.

Here's a con argument:

Fix it so that the output reads "He is middle-aged for a <race>."

e.g.  He is middle-aged for a human.

Problem solved.

[Armaddict]

I think that it should just say "He looks younger than you."  An elf who is older than this human, therefore, would still look younger due to the maturity differences.  So on and so forth.  Do it by a relative age standard and maturity of races.

-That- would fix it.

[FantasyWriter]

Fix it so that the output reads "He is middle-aged for a <race>."

Make it like that for all races looking at all races including their own.

[Synthesis]

That would all depend on the original intent behind the usage of the ass -v command, which really can't be determined until the Staff come up with a consensus on it.

Either ass -v can be used to glean subtle cues about a person's race, or it can't.

There's really nothing more to be discussed, at this point.  Until someone on Staff comes down and gives a verdict, it's a grey area.

[Armaddict]

Considering it now says 'for his race' rather than 'for a dwarf', I think it's pretty safe to say that it's not supposed to be the command for discerning race.

[Xygax]

The code indicates that the person you're assessing is not of your race for a reason.  It's not OOC information.

-- X

[Armaddict]

Cool.  Can I have a way to discern guilds for jobs too?

[Synthesis]

Aww, don't be a sore thread-loser.

[Armaddict]

Aww, don't worry, I don't feel too bad, Synthesis.  You still can't beat the game.

[Xygax]

Cool.  Can I have a way to discern guilds for jobs too?

No.

-- X

[Simple]

I thought everyone knew about assess -g

[Thunkkin]

Imm ruling is Imm ruling, but I've got to disagree with you on this one Synth.  I think there are plenty of RP reasons to play a half-elf that tries to pass as as another race.  Good reasons, in fact, and well-supported by the docs.  To say that anyone who does this is trying to twink with the half-elf racials ... doesn't make sense to me.  Do you believe everyone picks dwarves because of their stats, and not because playing out various dwarven foci and racial attitudes is interesting?  Half-elf angst and social problems is their point of interest, not their basis for twinkage, imo.  

I'd passingly considered playing a half-elf hiding his racial heritage, but this thread has kindly warned me away from trying it, so I'm glad of that.  I have no interest in the main thrust of a character concept being trumped by the first person with assess -v.  And for the record, other than a few vague guesses, I have no idea what or how good the half-elf racials are so, no, if I had played that concept, I wouldn't have been trying to pwn.

[Xygax]

You're welcome to play a half-elf hiding your racial heritage.  Just make your race be "human" or "elf" instead of half-elf.

-- X

[Xygax]

Oh, also:  if you really want to have more half-elven traits (and even stats), you could submit a special application for a half-elf that rolls as a half-elf and then is changed to a human with some staff intervention.

-- X

[Thunkkin]

Huh.  Ok!  If that's allowed, I'll put it back onto my list of possible concepts.

It just feels -more- gamey to me to be a "half-elf" human, but if that's not the case, then I'm "coo" with that.

Thanks for the clarifications, Mr. X.

[Xygax]

Why would it be more gamey?  Humans are the blank-slate, heinz-57 race...  They have no assets or deficits as a result of their race, and are also the perfect platform for playing internal conflict and confusion without having to worry about racially-appropriate gameplay.

-- X

[Thunkkin]

Well, I didn't say "twinky" for a reason.  And again, this is just coming from a relative noob.  To my simple mind, I had previously thought, "If you're a half-elf, you have to pick half-elf, because that's what you are.  If you picked human, but said you were a half-elf, it would be like picking dwarf, and saying you were a mul."  It wasn't a logical argument, just how it seemed to my noobie eyes.  Obviously, I'm reassessing that opinion.   : )  I just didn't realize we weren't so restricted by the code, and so the thought of "contradicting" the code hadn't seemed a legit possibility to me.  (And yeah, I know 'dwarf as mu'l would still be a no-no ).

[SMuz]

I dunno, I don't really mind the ass -v thing. There has to be something about half-elves that make them look different. It's probably some ingrained thing, like IRL how you can tell a Chinese man from a Japanese if you (rudely) assess them really closely. They would have the same sdesc, same mdesc, but there's just something different. Humanish HE's are probably taller, skinnier, with more almond shaped or pointier ears, but not enough so to be written in the mdesc. There's also things like subtle body language; considering the mandatory emo nature of half-elves, you can tell by looking at him close enough that he's a little self-conscious.

[Simple]

like IRL how you can tell a Chinese man from a Japanese

My oh my.

[Eloran]

There has to be something about half-elves that make them look different. It's probably some ingrained thing, like IRL how you can tell a Chinese man from a Japanese if you (rudely) assess them really closely.

Wait what?

The code indicates that the person you're assessing is not of your race for a reason.  It's not OOC information.

Care to explain how?

What are you doing when you assess -v a person? Are you intensely studying their facial structure and build for any hints as to their race? What is it an assess -v yields that a look does not, other than age, height and in this case, race?

[SMuz]

And why is it that humans can sniff out half-elves that are masquerading as human, but not as elves? Why is it that elves can sniff out half-elves that are masquerading as elves, but not as humans? Why do humans and elves get to have this magic race determining button and dwarves, muls, and half-giants don't?

Lol, pretty much my point. People are easily able to tell when someone is of their own race, but can't really tell the difference between two other races. Like a Thai can tell if someone else claiming to be Thai is really Vietnamese, but a Caucasian European can't always tell the difference between either if it's subtle.

It works realistically. Assess does what assessing someone else should do; you look at them closely and you can tell that they're not of your race when you do. An elf won't be able to tell a human from a half-elf, because they both look the same to him, but a human should naturally know that he's not of the same race. A human should be able to tell just from height and weight that the half-elf is not human.