Byn failing at its important function?

[Eyeball]

I guess any details are IC, but it must be hard on the newer players.

[Synthesis]

wut?

[FantasyWriter]

Finding/keeping a PC leader?

And enough PCs on at one time to actually go on contracts?

[Fathi]

I've seen several Bynners around recently, so I don't think the clan is empty...?

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Sarges are a bit hard to come by, probably is the complaint.

Dude, it can easily take a week to get into a clan. There's maybe a max of 3 PCs that can initiate you into a clan, per clan. If the leaders are hard to come by, yeah it sucks. But understand the difference between IG and IRL. IG there are 100 people that could get you into any clan (most of them not being coded), and they live, breathe, and sweat for their clan. IRL, people need time to socialize, get stuff straightened out at work, and get laid. Just doesn't work well with Arm, and anyone who choses arm over IRL needs to prioritize.

Tough it out. If you absolutely must be in the clan, and haven't found a PC to get you in after an IRL week, then I'd recommend you send an email to the clan leaders and set up a time and day you can meet them with an animated NPC to get yourself inducted. Not the best way, but functional.

(So long as no one tries to PK you for being a spy. Characters are very smart in game. They know that no other Sargeant, Lieutenant, or even Captain has any desire to recruit except theif Sarge/Lt/Cpt'n. They will not be fooled. Speaking from experience. )

[Eyeball]

Put it this way, the Byn has always been about taking most anyone and filtering them out as Runners. They don't really even care about Runners. If they don't make the grade, they don't make Trooper. A lot of them don't even want to, they just want the training. It's why they're about the only clan characters have to pay to get into.

If they start getting selective about admitting people as Runners though, where does it leave new players that don't have a clue?

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Uuumm... Yeah, this is way to IC, but I can tell you either:

a) Their full up. Wait til the next time they try and ride somewhere near the Shield Wall. The bloodshed will be great.

b) It was just the Sarge being a dill-hole.

or

c) Runners like to fuck with grey-eyed people?

[Fathi]

Put it this way, the Byn has always been about taking most anyone and filtering them out as Runners. if they don't make the grade, they don't make Trooper. A lot of them don't even want to, they just want the training.

If they start getting selective about admitting people as Runners though, where does it leave new players that don't have a clue?

One thing to keep in mind is that you don't always know the whole story. It can be extremely frustrating, but sometimes there are staff-imposed limits on how many people a clan can hire and they have to be selective. It doesn't make much IC sense and it's a pain in the ass--and it's not necessarily what's happening to you--but rather than assuming the clan is "failing", maybe try sending off an email to the T'Zai Byn staff? I bet they'd be willing to help.

[SMuz]

I blame the new sergeants. Handle it IC? OOCly, part of the 'screening' would recruit the noobs, and kick out the veterans who are acting as bums. A lot of other clans do the same thing, accept clueless newbies who make an IC effort. At least that's what I hope they're doing now.

[Eyeball]

Derailing my own thread (hopefully only temporarily), it's clear that Byn Sergeants get burnt out quickly.

I think the structure needs to be reorganized. Throw the Runners all into one big lump and appoint a training instructor (could be a Trooper made "Corporal" temporarily, could be a Sergeant). Put the rest of the Troopers and Sergeant(s) into one or more active units.

Rotate the training instructor from the pool of Troopers and Sergeants.

That way, being a Sergeant mostly would be about getting and filling contracts, without getting burnt out from training demands. And the number of Runners shouldn't be an issue since no one has to bear the load until they break.

[Synthesis]

The problem with that is that there will never be enough people around to fill all the billets that need to be filled.

The Sergeant has to play the part of instructor/recruiter/expedition leader because usually he's the -only- PC around who has the skills and experience to do it.  It's pretty rare (from my experience) for there to be more than 1 ACTIVE Sergeant in the Byn at any time.  (I've been in several times when there were two or more Sergeants, but typically 1 does 80% of the work.)

The Byn has worked for YEARS, though.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Oh, and Sergeants can recruit whoever the hell they want.  If they don't like 'rinthers, elves, breeds, dwarves, or muties, suck it up and deal with it.  You might consider yourself lucky not to be hired:  if I was a Sergeant and I didn't like 'rinthers, I'd hire them on then take them out to feed the Drov beetles.

[Eyeball]

The problem with that is that there will never be enough people around to fill all the billets that need to be filled.

The minimum you'd need is one Sergeant and one Trooper to make this scheme work. That doesn't sound unreasonable.

The Sergeant has to play the part of instructor/recruiter/expedition leader because usually he's the -only- PC around who has the skills and experience to do it.  It's pretty rare (from my experience) for there to be more than 1 ACTIVE Sergeant in the Byn at any time.  (I've been in several times when there were two or more Sergeants, but typically 1 does 80% of the work.)

It doesn't matter if Sergeant can't swing a sword to save his life. Face it, most of the training is Runner vs. Runner. What's needed is an enforcer of discipline, organizer, and some logistical support (e.g. issue water when it's desperately needed). A single training instructor, even the schlubbiest Trooper, could handle that.

The Byn has worked for YEARS, though.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I'd say if it's not exactly broke, it's not working as well as one would hope either.

Oh, and Sergeants can recruit whoever the hell they want.  If they don't like 'rinthers, elves, breeds, dwarves, or muties, suck it up and deal with it.  You might consider yourself lucky not to be hired:  if I was a Sergeant and I didn't like 'rinthers, I'd hire them on then take them out to feed the Drov beetles.

This seems to be the problem, doesn't it. Past Sergeants weren't so exclusive. Something's wrong when even able-bodied combat-skilled human characters with their shit together can't get in.

[Eyeball]

Maybe some former Byn Sergeants would like to comment here?

[jmordetsky]

Playing "game babysitter" for the n00b, twink and douche bag population can get pretty old, pretty quick for a sergeant. I don't blame them for being more selective. Better 1-2  good players who keep your hours then 10 idiots who will be dead from wandering in the rinth (or other places...I am one of these douche bags...) in a week.

[Zoltan]

Byn Sergeant is a very tough role to fill. I know, as my very first, wide-eyed-noob character was one. As Synthesis said, often times in the Byn the brunt of the "work" load falls on one experienced PC. There is nothing wrong with this: ICly, that's what a Byn Sarge does. Here are my two 'sids...

1. The Byn (rightly so in my opinion) has the reputation of being a real noob-friendly clan. The Byn tries to scoop up the new players when it can, often bending over backwards to do so. This is good. However...

2. After getting like a dozen new players in the clan, you actually want to interact with them and find fun stuff for them to do! This invariably leads to some potential recruits being passed over. It's a balancing act, and I'm afraid it can be frustrating for all sides from time to time (in my experience, being in a clan with a mostly-absent leader totally sucks compared to not getting into the clan). In short, when you already have a ton of players, it's time to -play-. Recruiting/being available for recruiting/acclimating a new player can be very, very time-consuming and burn out inducing.

3. A Byn sergeant can be as "exclusive" (ICly) as he/she damn well pleases; just like any other recruiter in the game. If it's for some reason a problem, they'd likely be spoken to ICly about it by their superiors, or probably get a "wtf dude, hire some more clannies!!!" email from the clan imm.

4. If recruitment is ever a big problem, just wish up to get interviewed for the Byn by a staff-animated NPC. I've seen this happen before (it's best to try going through a PC first, though, for various reasons).

5. RL stuff happens, and sometimes these leader PC players have to take a break. There's no way around that.

6. This probably doesn't need to even be said, but ICly, sometimes a Byn Sarge is just a total dick. Sometimes they're incompetent.

[Rhyden]

What J-Mord said.

Being a Byn Sergeant is probably the most difficult role, imo. Not only are you running a clan, but you're trying to fit the needs of players new and old, while training them, and finding work for them. The only way the Byn makes money is if they have contracts. This means PCs need to -hire- the Byn in order for anyone to make any coins. And when mercenaries aren't making any coins, they tend to get cranky. And guess who has to deal with everyone's problems? The Sergeants. In my experience, playing as a Sergeant runs very close to having a second job. This may be why you see so many Byn Sergeants disappear, but that could also have to do with, you know, their EXTREMELY HIGH RISK job.

The Byn has always had its ups and downs, in player population, and the amount of action it sees.

Is it failing? Not a chance.

[Eyeball]

Playing "game babysitter" for the n00b, twink and douche bag population can get pretty old, pretty quick for a sergeant. I don't blame them for being more selective. Better 1-2  good players who keep your hours then 10 idiots who will be dead from wandering in the rinth (or other places...I am one of these douche bags...) in a week.

Oh, and Sergeants can recruit whoever the hell they want.  If they don't like 'rinthers, elves, breeds, dwarves, or muties, suck it up and deal with it.  You might consider yourself lucky not to be hired:  if I was a Sergeant and I didn't like 'rinthers, I'd hire them on then take them out to feed the Drov beetles.

3. A Byn sergeant can be as "exclusive" (ICly) as he/she damn well pleases; just like any other recruiter in the game. If it's for some reason a problem, they'd likely be spoken to ICly about it by their superiors, or probably get a "wtf dude, hire some more clannies!!!" email from the clan imm.

Ok, the players have spoken. Let's declare the old Byn motto of "give us your n00bies, your untrained, your wet-behind-the-ears" as dead and adjust our expectations accordingly. 

[Zoltan]

Playing "game babysitter" for the n00b, twink and douche bag population can get pretty old, pretty quick for a sergeant. I don't blame them for being more selective. Better 1-2  good players who keep your hours then 10 idiots who will be dead from wandering in the rinth (or other places...I am one of these douche bags...) in a week.

Oh, and Sergeants can recruit whoever the hell they want.  If they don't like 'rinthers, elves, breeds, dwarves, or muties, suck it up and deal with it.  You might consider yourself lucky not to be hired:  if I was a Sergeant and I didn't like 'rinthers, I'd hire them on then take them out to feed the Drov beetles.

3. A Byn sergeant can be as "exclusive" (ICly) as he/she damn well pleases; just like any other recruiter in the game. If it's for some reason a problem, they'd likely be spoken to ICly about it by their superiors, or probably get a "wtf dude, hire some more clannies!!!" email from the clan imm.

Ok, the players have spoken. Let's declare the old Byn motto of "give us your n00bies, your untrained, your wet-behind-the-ears" as dead and adjust our expectations accordingly. 

I'm not internet-savvy enough to post that cool "Picard Facepalm" pic, so I'll just have to settle for this: 

Not one of us is saying fuck off to the new players. Sometimes you just can't satisfy everyone, and though I -- and others I'm sure -- encourage Byn sergeants to recruit new players whenever possible, this can't always happen.

[jmordetsky]

Not to turn this into a Rhyden/Jmord handjob festival but:

Being a Byn Sergeant is probably the most difficult role, imo.

I would say the Byn Sarge and Templar are probably the two hardest things to play in terms of "second job-ness" with Byn sarge winning out because of a distinct lack of political power. Tripple that if you are a breed or an elf - good fucking luck.

On top of having all the OC responsibility of any other clan leader - No one gives Byn Sarge a stipend. He has to earn his buck.

He's meant to be the babysitter of the entire pc population, so not only does he need to earn everyone money but he also needs to OCly mentor monkey dicks while at the same time trying to maintain his air of hard-ass-ed-ness.

Not only that but he usually has a clan of fuck wits, and the one's that aren't fuckwits in RL are playing a fuckwit.

And he has to be in the Tavern every day recruiting new fuck wits.

And he has to keep all of the other fuck wits happy because after a year of stew and sparring they're all think they're fucking Thor and are ready to kill some shit. (This may sound harsh, but understand I include myself in this group.)

Very difficult. Every time I see an app for Byn Sarge I think about it, then decline.

[Posts for the Post God]

Playing a Byn Sergeant is very difficult, but I don't think that's what this thread's actually about.

If you're having issues with the Byn, why not join up with another clan?

The Byn may have an OOC reputation as being the brown-clad newb-tutors, but in my experience, just about any clan will offer help to new players if they join up.

Kadius, Kurac, and Salarr are often hiring. I would recommend them over joining a city militia such as the AOD or the Sun Legions for a new player.

Welcome to Armageddon!

[Rhyden]

Also, if you did want to join the Byn and try your hand at rising through the ranks to become a Byn Sergeant to be the change you want to see, send the Byn staff (tzai_byn@armageddon.org) an email that you're interested in joining. Quite possibly there could be room for a Byn Sergeant app as well. You never know until you ask!

[brytta.leofa]

3. A Byn sergeant can be as "exclusive" (ICly) as he/she damn well pleases; just like any other recruiter in the game.

Byn sergeants are people too, not stew vending machines. If you think you're a perfect fit for the Byn but are rejected, be surprised and hurt in-character, not out-of-character.

[Krath]

I have had several Byn Sarges. My Advice is this.

1) Hire anyone that wants to join. It creates all kinds of fun for EVERYONE in the clan
2) Take -everyone- on any contract, so long as they can ride they can go
3) Create your own Hiearchy setup. IE the second, third, forth etc in command
4) To get Contracts, You have to FIRST have an experienced group of CORE Bynners: That means
     you wont be doing contracts for your first RL month or so if you do not have enough troopers
     because as a sarge you need time away to put your name and face out there and find out who
     needs what done, and you -can not- do that if you do not have other pcs who are able to train
     the runners while you are out
5) As far as Discipline, it is a fucking mercenaries guild, not House Tor or Lyksae. So long as they listen
     on contracts, let them act how they wish. If they want to skip out on Nekrete, they suffer the
     consequences. If they want to act up on a contract, they suffer the IC consequences.
6) Re-Read #1. Remember the more you hire, the more fun for everyone.


On A side note, I remember when BYN graduations were RPTs in themselves, when Nobles would come
and take the best of the best from the byn and give them a shot with their house, and then you would
have to start your unit over again in the byn. This is what always constantly gave me something to do.
The cycle of Recruit, train, Contract, evaluate, graduate, start over.  That is the way -I- -THINK- it
should be run.

[Cerelum]

I've often thought that players shouldn't be forced to log on for the need of other players, but I think that clans should have enough chiefs to keep someone on regular.  If you're that guy who likes to play one day a week and is great when he plays, sure you could be a leader, but if I were running the clan I would be looking for that guy on 6 days a week pretty regular to be my goto guy.

Just my 2 cents,

Jarod

[Agent_137]

3. A Byn sergeant can be as "exclusive" (ICly) as he/she damn well pleases; just like any other recruiter in the game.

Byn sergeants are people too, not stew vending machines. If you think you're a perfect fit for the Byn but are rejected, be surprised and hurt in-character, not out-of-character.

if any of my pcs got rejected from the byn for anything but being a magicker I think they'd never show their face in that city again. what a disgrace!