Byn failing at its important function?

[Jdr]

If I could afford the Byn, I'd hire them for everything, no matter how ridiculous or necessary, that I would believe my underlings above. Which is most things. But as it currently stands, I simply don't get paid enough.

[solera]

Could someone please tell me why a Byn Sergeant can't delegate trusted troopers to recruit !

[Synthesis]

Could someone please tell me why a Byn Sergeant can't delegate trusted troopers to recruit !

Because the 'recruit' command is available only to certain ranks.  Trooper isn't one of them.

[solera]

Because the 'recruit' command is available only to certain ranks.  Trooper isn't one of them.

I know.  That's what I'm asking.  Why not?

[Synthesis]

Because the 'recruit' command is available only to certain ranks.  Trooper isn't one of them.

I know.  That's what I'm asking.  Why not?

Because the people who created the T'zai Byn wanted it that way, and no one has changed it since.

[Morrolan]

I once, long ago, asked for a rank between Trooper and Sargent.  Basically Corporal.

This was not accepted.  As far as I remember, the answer was 'use your troopers'.

And this was at a time when there was enough activity that we opened the north, and had a PC Lieutenant.

[Reiloth]

- Get one more storyteller staffer on board to cover the Byn. They can perhaps have a focus on the Unit of people designed for the influx of new players. In this way -- You can have the well-oiled machines, a mixture of new players, vets, and people still green behind the ears, do professional contracts, while the 'newbie' unit struggles with syntax, grows a bit, and become green behind the ear, and are promoted into the "Barley's Badass Crew".

- App in a Byn Sergeant in the North, and a Byn Sergeant in the South. Why in the North? There are plenty of new players that get swallowed up by the typical Noble Houses. Take a bite.

- Be more maliable with the rules; delinate roles to certain troopers, call them 'Surveyors', and give them the ability to recruit.

- When your unit has no contracts, make contracts. The Byn is the only real 'outfit' of mercenaries on the entire planet. Be devious. Be clever, or be stupid, but if you weren't making any money on contracts...Wouldn't you go hire a couple dudes to set fire to an Oashi holding, send a third guy that's your Corporal to 'make sure the job's done', kill them, and wait until news of it has spread throughout the city, and then just wait for Oash to contact you to investigate by force?

- Perhaps deliniate a 'Unit' to be specifically designed to help newbie players, as someone mentioned previously, with rotating 'drill instructors', that could even be ex-Byn mercenaries, or current Troopers+. I think this will help avoid burn-out with the constant flow of new players, and no reprieve.

Just a few thoughts.

[SMuz]

Corporal's been around on and off in the past years, as far as I've seen. I've played with 4 of them. It's only been unofficial to semi-official at best, and as a right hand man to the Sergeants. Problem there is that they have no access to the Sergeant documentation, so they're very reliant on their Sergeants for use of their ability.

And no, having a Corporal to handle jobs when the Sergeant ain't around doesn't help burnout much. There's more sources to burnout than handling contacts and teaching new players. If you have a huge influx of new players, the Sergeant can always pull a Trooper to help one out, or better yet, a Trooper can be promoted to Sergeant.

But personally, I think it should be there. There's always going to be someone you don't want as a Sergeant, like an elf, half-giant, or one of the many Bynners with brain damage. Those characters, while entirely likely to ruin the Byn, can make surprisingly good assistants

[FantasyWriter]

Could someone please tell me why a Byn Sergeant can't delegate trusted troopers to recruit !

Because the 'recruit' command is available only to certain ranks.  Trooper isn't one of them.

>promote Golmer recruiter   doesn't work in the Byn?

[SMuz]

Could someone please tell me why a Byn Sergeant can't delegate trusted troopers to recruit !

Because the 'recruit' command is available only to certain ranks.  Trooper isn't one of them.

>promote Golmer recruiter   doesn't work in the Byn?

It works.. but do staff allow it?

[FantasyWriter]

Don't know... If I was a sergeant with low enough playtimes or odd play times, and there was not enough incoming clannies for my clan to stay active, I would definitely email my staff to find out if I could do this to better that clan, though.

[Zoltan]

I think the Byn command structure is just fine the way it is. Besides, there's -always- that elder trooper hanging around that knows all the ins and outs. They don't need a whole new rank and coded abilities to be turned into an assistant.

The Byn is a bunch of murderers, thugs, rapists and border line psychotics, but they're organized. The command structure we see IG now is the most that that group can possibly be organized, on the whole.

Besides, as it stands now troopers and even runners can help out a -lot- with recruiting, just by getting word around town, spelling out the rules, explaining the new recruit's role, etc. Then it just comes down to getting that fee to a sergeant and getting codedly recruited, bam. Or! An enterprising trooper or runner can wish up for an imm to animate a sergeant or whatever to get a real eager recruit into the Byn. I've done this in the past myself, and it happens more than you might expect.

[Fathi]

Besides, as it stands now troopers and even runners can help out a -lot- with recruiting, just by getting word around town, spelling out the rules, explaining the new recruit's role, etc. Then it just comes down to getting that fee to a sergeant and getting codedly recruited, bam. Or! An enterprising trooper or runner can wish up for an imm to animate a sergeant or whatever to get a real eager recruit into the Byn. I've done this in the past myself, and it happens more than you might expect.

Quoting this in the hopes that more people read it.

I played a sergeant during a hugely active Byn period, late 2006 to early 2007. We had three mostly-active sergeants and a gaggle of experienced troopers as well as the usual rotating crew of runners. The only way I stayed sane playing that role was by delegating stuff like water runs, recruit trolling, and a mild degree of contract-sniffing to the most trusted troopers in the group. In the end, everything had to come back to the sergeant for the final okay, but nobody--staff included--ever argued the amount of freedom and management duties that some of those troopers had.

That being said, I think it's important that people remember the Byn isn't just a newbie school. As others in this thread have stated, a sergeant has a responsibility to keep things profitable and active for the Bynners they've already got. Often times--especially during times when your clan is huge--this takes precedence over recruiting. It may come off as unfair to the player in question trying to be recruited. And that sucks. But you can't please everyone all the time.

[hyzhenhok]

I think the Byn's reputation as a newbie school is undeserved. Yes, every player should experience the Byn once in their Armageddon careers. However, I would hold back in terms of recommending it as a first clan for all newbies. Other clans are not really any less newb friendly. I've seen PCs being blatantly newb friendly in the 'rinth, of all places. I can think of several clans that are similar to the Byn in terms of training opportunities, imposing rules that help the newb survive (out-of-bounds areas), and have significantly better income. Troopers only have decent income when there are contracts. Runners almost never have any decent income, because their share of contracts is so small. I think we should be pointing newbies to military clans that pay a salary, at the very least.

[RogueGunslinger]

AOD and the merchant houses rock cock for newbies.

Personally, every time I've been in the Byn I always felt like "just another runner".

[Synthesis]

AOD and the merchant houses rock cock for newbies.

Personally, every time I've been in the Byn I always felt like "just another runner".

The only way to distinguish yourself as a Runner is to be really good at something, or be a complete fuck-up.

[hyzhenhok]

AOD and the merchant houses rock cock for newbies.

Personally, every time I've been in the Byn I always felt like "just another runner".

It's been more than a year, so I can say that my first real character joined House Tor. I still learned pretty much everything that I needed to, the people in the clan were awesome and understanding, my character had a salary on top of cool equipment and food and water, and I was invovled first-hand in awesome plots. It was all amazing. It got me hooked on Armageddon, after my first few characters had all died quickly and I was beginning to wonder what the point of it all was.

New players need to experience that sort of thing, rather than being "just another runner" in the Byn. I don't want to diminish the sergeant(s) of the Byn that I've interacted with--they've been awesome as well--but it really helps immerse a new player in the game if their character is treated as a valuable asset rather than an expendable runner, and if they are involved in plots more deeply that simply going on contracts.

Honestly, I think the Byn is more for veterans who are burnt out on involved plots or highly-demanding roles.

[Northlander]

Perhaps I'm wrong - indeed, I likely am - but it's always seemed to me like the Byn was somewhere a character went before they would be a noble guard. I know that if I'm hiring, I'd like to know that this girl or guy isn't just another feck. So in that manner, one can get plenty of different jobs once one is finished training. I wouldn't mind seeing characters having undergone Byn training, if not the Byn itself, be a bit more respected - that'd put a point into paying 300 'sid. As it is now the Militia and Merchant Houses are likely to pay you for similar stuff - though probably with fewer PCs - and you'd get some funkier stuff. Like hyzhenhok pointed out, one currently stands a chance of getting on with a Noble Nouse straight off the bat. Perhaps that'd move more folk through the Byn?

I still don't know if the Byn is broken, but I do know that PC-heavy environments are heavens for newbies.

[hyzhenhok]

I still don't know if the Byn is broken, but I do know that PC-heavy environments are heavens for newbies.

I'm not really sure this is true. It's important for a newbie to have one or two more experienced PCs to hang around with and roleplay with while they learn the ropes. Things being too busy are just as bad for newbies. 10 PCs online in the same clan, all of them trying to roleplay and train, a good portion of them being newbies, isn't really the best learning environment IMO. Having 2-3 other PCs in your clan to RP with on a regular basis is plenty, even ideal. Too many people, and you're in danger of newbies becoming uninterested because they're treated as "just another runner."

Edit: And for understandable reasons, the Byn has a much worse IC reputation than the docs seem to indicate. This affects not only IC opinion of Byn PCs (almost universally looked down on), but also OOCly what kinds of characters end up joining the Byn. I remember House Tor actively trying to recruit runner graduates into its academy and failing, because PCs who were in the Byn tended to not be the kinds that would want to or be able to join a noble house. Instead of being a considered a highly effective, powerful mercenary company that's only in it for the money, the Tzai'Byn has the reputation of being a dirty mass of shitcloaks who are only in it for the money. There's a world of difference between the two.

[Riev]

Like hyzhenhok pointed out, one currently stands a chance of getting on with a Noble Nouse straight off the bat. Perhaps that'd move more folk through the Byn?

I enjoy this line of thinking. When you can join a Merchant House as a Guard or other combat-style role, straight out of the Hall of Kings, OR you can go to the Byn, it feels like it defeats the purpose of the Byn itself. In a recruiting position, I would -much- rather know they ICly went through some Byn training before I hire them. Shows they MIGHT not die in a week, AND they know the basic ADL's to stay alive.

Unfortunately, that is NOT possible in most cases. People want PCs in their clan and are willing to put up with the period of noobish skill for it.

[Rhyden]

Perhaps I'm wrong - indeed, I likely am - but it's always seemed to me like the Byn was somewhere a character went before they would be a noble guard. I know that if I'm hiring, I'd like to know that this girl or guy isn't just another feck. So in that manner, one can get plenty of different jobs once one is finished training. I wouldn't mind seeing characters having undergone Byn training, if not the Byn itself, be a bit more respected - that'd put a point into paying 300 'sid. As it is now the Militia and Merchant Houses are likely to pay you for similar stuff - though probably with fewer PCs - and you'd get some funkier stuff. Like hyzhenhok pointed out, one currently stands a chance of getting on with a Noble Nouse straight off the bat. Perhaps that'd move more folk through the Byn?

I think this may already be the case. Most employers would understand the difference in hiring an ex-Bynner to some random bystander. In the same sense, the Byn can be just as easily disrespected for taking in all races, and all sorts. And the poopy boots don't help much either.

[Morrolan]

I'd like to see clan docs differentiate between green characters and pre-trained characters (i.e. Byn grads).  I suppose this could be left up to individual sargents (who are hiring), as well.

I remember the days when nobles were paying the entry fees for newbs to go through the Byn, and saying "You have a job in one year."  And I remember PCs managing to do this.

It seems like a good choice for basic training, a good way to populate the Byn and other military organizations, and a good way to give the characters involved more depth as well as contacts and an identity beyond their jobs.  It seems like a possible way to prevent job burnout by widening character interaction.

Just a thought.

Morrolan

[Krath]

I'd like to see clan docs differentiate between green characters and pre-trained characters (i.e. Byn grads).  I suppose this could be left up to individual sargents (who are hiring), as well.

I remember the days when nobles were paying the entry fees for newbs to go through the Byn, and saying "You have a job in one year."  And I remember PCs managing to do this.

It seems like a good choice for basic training, a good way to populate the Byn and other military organizations, and a good way to give the characters involved more depth as well as contacts and an identity beyond their jobs.  It seems like a possible way to prevent job burnout by widening character interaction.

Just a thought.

Morrolan

This is the way it should be. IMHO.

[number13]

This is the way it should be. IMHO.

The way it should be, imho, is half-n-half program, where every PC (even the non-combatants) in a House (noble or merchant) gets paid access to Byn training halls or Tor Academy* (depending on race, social status) and perhaps  the occasional leeway to go on contracts/patrols pending permission from the primary employer.  Meanwhile, they still work for the employer -- going on errands/missions/special House specific training etc.

Signing promising recruits and agents up to the Academy actually makes some IC sense. It's not too much of a stretch that the Byn would accept payment to assist in training clanned soldiers.  Perhaps the Outpost and House training grounds are full-up with vNPCs?  It's a poor justification, but the benefit is almost entirely OOC -- the playerbase gets concentrated. There'd probably always be to someone available to spar with/interact with, even in the lowest point of off-peak.  Plus, even if the supply of runners/contracts is dry, the Byn Sarge is still going to have a mission -- playing drill sargeant and keeping all the House employees from "accidentally" killing each other.

As it stands I am leery of joining up with any of the more structured in-game organizations, for fear of caging myself in a situation where I'd end up with sparse options, as far as actually playing the game is concerned. I'm hoping Arm.2's sparring grounds work more like as I've described above, and a bit less like the current system.

* Not sure what the northern equivalent would be.

[Lizzie]

The problem with that, is that it depends on current events - which change constantly. Example:

I'm a noble. There's a couple "green" characters who are also new. They have the potential to be awesome, but I'm a noble, and it's not my job to train them. So I pay their way into the Byn.

The Sergeant dies. The trooper is promoted, and the trooper never had this agreement, and never saw a single sid from the entry fee I gave the dead sergeant, because the trooper was just a runner at the time. The new Sergeant gets sids from -another- noble to take the first green guy's contract, and goes for it, because -he- never had any agreement with me, and he's now getting sids to give *my* green guy away to someone else.

Situation #2.
I'm a noble. Green characters get sponsored to the Byn. The Byn, being famous for shield wall exploits, loses the guy I just paid for. Sergeant refuses to refund my sids, or sponsor someone else. I give up and stop bothering to try sponsoring people into the Byn.

Situation #3
Situation #2 happens, and the sergeant dies, and a new sergeant shows up. I try the same deal with him. He says yeah yeah, but never follows through. I give up again.

And so on and so forth.

That has been -mostly- my experience with the Byn, as the player of a potential "sponsoring" PC. It just really hasn't been worth the effort because I rarely get the Bynner graduate I paid for, no matter how the arrangement was done.