Elves and Silt Skimmers

[Eloran]

I'd like to know why exactly elves aren't allowed to ride on silt skimmers.

Elven pride keeps sharps off of mounts and wagons because they have the ability to run. Elves cannot run on silt. Either they take the skimmer or they die.

This seems to me is just another hit against an elven presence in the Byn. They already can't go on missions that require a wagon or extended travel on mounts unless their Sergeant is kind enough to bring along a tent.

[SMuz]

Maybe they can't be confined to a skimmer? Them elven legs need to stretch.

[Thunkkin]

Yeah, for myself, outside of a few very specific concepts, I just don't see playing a city elf.  The whole, "You're proud of your inability to run!" thing just makes zero sense to me and really turns me off.  Perhaps dwarves should be so proud of their ability to fly that they refuse to climb.  Of course, they can't fly, but that doesn't change their refusal to climb! What fun!

[Marc]

It comes across as a contrived difference.  If it offered any sort of advantage, real or imagined, sure, but there is nothing.

I suppose goth kids wear handcuffs and chain themselves to each other.  Thats a real world example of self-imposed handicaps.

C-elves were just never meant to leave city-flagged rooms.  Stamina regen is crap because endurance is racially low, movement points are similar to a human, can't ride, can't navigate sandstorms.

Fun

[tortall]

I seem to remember elves being on a certain silt skimmer years ago with a certain well known Sergeant of the Byn, helping us drag bag the corpse of the biggest silt horror you've ever seen.

[Agent_137]

C-elves were just never meant to leave city-flagged rooms. 

this.

do not make a c-elf and join the byn unless you are planning to steal all their knowledge, loot, and then quit without having ever gone on a mission.

you are not a warrior regardless of what your guild is. you are a city necker. go steal something.

[Marc]

C-elves were just never meant to leave city-flagged rooms. 

this.

do not make a c-elf and join the byn unless you are planning to steal all their knowledge, loot, and then quit without having ever gone on a mission.

you are not a warrior regardless of what your guild is. you are a city necker. go steal something.

Because 40ish% of the worlds population is completely immobile.  Elven npcs in the byn or other non-elf organizations are the exceptions.  PC's play the rule.  And yes, d-elves and c-elves are the exact same race.  Environment, environment, environment.  No you can't learn to run.

/sarcasm

[Agent_137]

Because 40ish% of the worlds population is completely immobile.  Elven npcs in the byn or other non-elf organizations are the exceptions.  PC's play the rule.  And yes, d-elves and c-elves are the exact same race.  Environment, environment, environment.  No you can't learn to run.

/sarcasm

the elven NPCs that I remember from the byn are actually the last remaining elves from a tribe of desert elves.

no, you can't learn to run like a d-elf without having done it from childhood. Which C-elves have not. However, you could probably put in a request to the Imms if you logged training over the course of many IC years. i'm sure they'd help you out.

i'm not saying it doesn't suck and doesn't totally shit on the playability of c-elves. It does. But playability is not the chief concern here, apparently. (see gemmer threads.)

[Bushranger]

I suppose goth kids wear handcuffs and chain themselves to each other.  Thats a real world example of self-imposed handicap.

Goth chicks are both hot and kinky. I've never seen being handcuffed to a goth chick as a handicap.

You're right, city elves generally shouldn't be leaving cities, and while it can be played around with certain precautions and patience it doesn't mean things shouldn't be re-examined and perhaps tweaked a little.

I agree with the point Elves can not run on silt, why not let them ride silt skimmers?

[Agent_137]

But playability is not the chief concern here, apparently.

i thought more about my statement after I made it. I think we are locked into docs to a certain extent here. the immortals too. I expect arma 2 will be a better experience because the docs will have been made with the new knowledge of what worked and what didn't. I look forward to this.

[a strange shadow]

But playability is not the chief concern here, apparently.

i thought more about my statement after I made it. I think we are locked into docs to a certain extent here. the immortals too. I expect arma 2 will be a better experience because the docs will have been made with the new knowledge of what worked and what didn't. I look forward to this.

[Yam]

The helpfiles and roleplaying documents say that elves do not ride mounts. Unless the silt skimmer is some sort of cybernetic kankish construction, I think that any elf I play will have no problems with riding one.

Seriously. What the fuck. Elves not riding silt skimmers? They used to all the time.

Totally silly, guys.

[Eternal Strife]

I'd like to know why exactly elves aren't allowed to ride on silt skimmers.

Maybe someone could chime in and shed some light on this?

[FantasyWriter]

I was rereading the elf docs, and I SEEM to remember that after the part about them not riding mounts there use to be a sentence about them not liking to ride in wagons, but would out of necessity.  I could be mistaken though.

[Eloran]

You mean:

Race Elf                                     (Character)

[....] Due to their nature as runners, all elves find
the riding of mounts (and usually, riding in
wagons) to be an extremely shameful act. [....]
In other words, elves will never ride on mounts
or in wagons, as to do so owuld be to insult one
of the few things they are proud of: their natural
speed and endurance on the run.

The above helpfile offers no mentioning of skimmers.
If staff's stance is to not allow elves to ride them, perhaps
an amendment should be made.

[Eternal Strife]

Like the OP of the thread in ask the staff, elves can't run on silt. Are they too proud for skimmers even if it is the only way of transportation?

[Jdr]

Sounds like just another way to douchify the longnecks IMO.

[Sephiroto]

Unless desert elves can actually transit across the silt sea on foot in some manner (find this out ICly if you dare) I don't see why they couldn't ride a skimmer.  The issue is that they almost always wouldn't ride one in the same manner that a dwarf with a focus to run from one end of the world to another would ride neither mounts nor wagons.  There may be some exceptions on rare occasions, but overall a d-elf would probably be bent on finding a way across or through the silt on their own legs rather than use some construct.

City Elves on the other hand, which should normally stick to the cities (duh) and hardly ever travel out in the wastes, would be out of their fucking minds to adventure into the silt sea, period.  Of course there are always exceptions to this rule as well...such as a c-elf from Red Storm who has sifted spice for 20 years, learned to navigate the storms, and helped fight off silt-flyers and silt-horrors (or just ran away from them) just might be inclined to join an expedition with the right crew for the right reasons.

[Marc]

Seph:  Staff has said elves do not ride on skimmers.  Since it was asked in the same sentence as mounts, I doubt there is any leeway to allow exceptions under the current ruling.

As for c-elves not leaving the city, is that an ingrained racial trait or is it along the same lines as a human commoner of either city: Why in krath would you ever want to leave the safety of the walls for the suicidal wastes?

[Yam]

Seph:  Staff has said elves do not ride on skimmers.  Since it was asked in the same sentence as mounts, I doubt there is any leeway to allow exceptions under the current ruling.

As for c-elves not leaving the city, is that an ingrained racial trait or is it along the same lines as a human commoner of either city: Why in krath would you ever want to leave the safety of the walls for the suicidal wastes?

Who knows. Ask all the elf NPCs in Kurac or the ones that hang out in Red Storm.

[Sephiroto]

Ah, Marc I think what the Staff is saying is that elves are not supposed to ride on skimmers in accordance with documentation and it would be greatly frowned upon to do so in almost every case.  Would I play an elf and ride on a skimmer?  Probably not.  However, that doesn't mean you absolutely can't do it.  Be prepared to be looked at awfully hard if you make the decision to do so.

As for your question I believe that a c-elf not leaving the city is, for a greater part, a tribal/racial thing.  The elven family has lived in the city for generations.  The city is all they know.  It is how they make their living and where they raise their families.  An elf might have obligations to his tribe/family and making a living by trade in the city would be the honorable thing to do in respects to their ancestors and fellow tribe mates.  In addition to these things, a c-elf would not want to leave the city and get eaten or lost in the sand or bake under the sun for the same reason as any other city human/dwarf/half-elf.  The exceptions I might see to this would be an elf who, for some reason or another, wound up in a clan/tribe such as Kurac or is involved with some ongoings in Red Storm where it may be natural to do some limited dune hopping.  Again, this would only comprise a small fraction of c-elves.

Keep in mind that interpretating of the docs is like the interpretation of the Constitution and our laws in the United States.  Interpretations vary from person to person, judge to judge.  Until we hear the argument from the staff to support why they made their decision, instead of just their ruling, all we can do is speculate and try to make some sense of it.  Frankly, there should be no coded reason that an elf couldn't ride a skimmer.  RP wise it probably shouldn't happen in almost all cases.

[Eloran]

Keep in mind that interpretating of the docs is like the interpretation of the Constitution and our laws.  It varies from person to person, judge to judge.

This is laughable.

Who are you to say the documentation of ArmageddonMUD or the Constitution of the United States of America is a living breathing document?

[Eternal Strife]

Due to their nature as runners, all elves find riding mounts to be a shameful act.

Since skimmers do not rely on mounts to steer them and you can not run on silt, I do not see any reason for an elf not to ride on a skimmer.

As for your question I believe that a c-elf not leaving the city is, for a greater part, a tribal/racial thing.

All elves have a cultural bent toward both wandering and thievery.

All elves, including city elves, migrate across the known world. City elves are just tied to living within the cities.

[RogueGunslinger]

If an elf is a tribe of his own, I don't see what the issue with leaving a city regularly is. (other than the fact that they cant run or ride on anything, of course.)

[Delstro]

Like the OP of the thread in ask the staff, elves can't run on silt. Are they too proud for skimmers even if it is the only way of transportation?

The problem with this is that a skinny would, normally, not own a skimmer. If I were a C-elf, I wouldn't trust being on something that floats with a crew of people that I don't trust. What happens if they want to take advantage of my situation? They take advantage of it. I've known all my life that humans love to harass elves for no other reason than we are better than them. This could all be a trick to kill the skinny in the group. I don't ride in wagons because my tribe doesn't own the wagon and I don't trust someone else to be in charge of my life. That is why I don't make good slaves.