Something else to do with Karma.

[Vessol]

I've noticed that many times that creating a new character is one of the most exciting parts of the game as the sheer amount of creativity and imagination you can pour into your character is a lot of fun, however is is also one of the most dull and boring parts too. As for the umpteenth time for many veteran players whom have had many characters, they yet again start as complete noobs. Regardless of their backgrounds, it has no effect what-so-ever on your character code wise. From a RP standpoint, It can be severely jarring to have your character whom is in his late 30's and has been a mercenary his whole life, fighting it out, beat by some kid who has codely been in the game longer then you. From a player standpoint you know it as "Oh Boy! Another character to grind to even remotely compete with others who have codely spent more time playing" And no matter how much awesome RP you put in that countless sparring sessions, it's still a grind.
In fact, while I have no data to prove this, I think this may be one of the biggest problems with player retention of long-term players.

Now to those patient enough to read through all this, what is my proposition?

Giving something else to do with your Karma besides restricted races and guilds. As karma is "Karma is simply a measure of trust that the staff members have in a given player's" taken directly from the page. I see no reason why that can't go hand in hand with other things.

My proposition is this.

Give players the ability to automatically fill roles in player creation. They'd of course have to describe in their background how they came to be in this role.
What roles would there be? Nothing that would require excessive set-up or involvement of the imms beyond simply reading over and approving it.
I'm talking about general membership. Such as coming in as a Byn Trooper, or a Arm of the Dragon Private or a Hunter/Equivalent in a Merchant House . No leadership positions(leave those for staff announcements). Of course if there was an excess of people taking a certain role, it could be discontinued till the staff deem it time to reopen it.
Perhaps also allowed players with sufficient karma to request a skill boost and detail in their background how they came upon this experience.
IG they would of course just RP transferring from another unit or equivalent in a clan.

One could argue that this could just be brought up with a special application. However that takes time on both ends for both the staff and the player and takes up valuable staff time. This I believe would streamline a more simpler process.

If 2 karma signifies the staff can trust a player enough to play a magicker, why can't they trust a player enough to start out as a Militia Private or a Byn Trooper? Obviously if they go in and abuse the role, like any other trusted role they would have a karma dock or would be talked to.

[shadeoux]

I like this idea, but that would mean Staff would have to set another set of standards per karma level, if its not already done.

[Taven]

I don't like this idea. I see the reasons for suggesting it, but I don't like it. We already have complaints about magick abuse, or if karma is fair, or the ratio of things. I know it isn't meant to be this way, but I think some players will see it as a way to do just enough role-playing to get out of it. No amount of background can make up for experiances IC, and adding an "old" member of a unit to a clan would just be jarring, even if they were "transferred." I think that if a person wants to have a PC with boosted skills starting in a clan, they should need to apply for it. Otherwise, I think you'd begin to rarely ever see recruits or runners, everyone would just start in a clan.

Again, I can see why you'd purpose this, but I think that this is the wrong way to go about the goal.

[number13]

Agree with this, mostly. The karma levels for beginning with a significant rank should be higher than two, and of course, players who abuse the privilege should have their karma stripped.

[Cutthroat]

The concept of this idea is nice as it gives players easier access to more options, but it seems to me that having this option open could cause the players of characters who are recruits or looking to join a clan to feel slighted when they see new PCs popping up of higher rank than them. Also, the way it works now, new characters distribute themselves fairly evenly amongst the clans, with a small group that stay independent. I think with this idea you would start seeing the amounts of players in each clan getting thrown way off balance.

[Bushranger]

From a RP standpoint, It can be severely jarring to have your character whom is in his late 30's and has been a mercenary his whole life, fighting it out, beat by some kid who has codely been in the game longer then you. From a player standpoint you know it as "Oh Boy! Another character to grind to even remotely compete with others who have codely spent more time playing" And no matter how much awesome RP you put in that countless sparring sessions, it's still a grind.
In fact, while I have no data to prove this, I think this may be one of the biggest problems with player retention of long-term players.

I don't see how allowing new PC's to go from cg to Byn Trooper or AoD Private or House DunkinDoughnuts Pastry Chef roles overcomes any of this problem though. The kid with 5 days played as a Recruit will still beat your late 30's mercenary who has just come in as a Trooper. There is still the grind to train up coded skills to become just as proficient a Trooper as the person who went though recruit training. Unless you mean that coming in at that position straight from CG with Karma includes skill bumps? You mentioned that as a tentative 'other' option though.. so please explain how being a 'Trooper' immediately instead of after a few weeks helps overcome the grind?

[RogueGunslinger]

Verbatim, from an E-mail sent to me about my requested Special-app. I think it pertains to this pretty well.

The character sounds interesting and fun, but isn't anything a player couldn't play through the normal process(and honestly most characters would benefit by being played through the learning and experience). There is nothing "special" that I see in this special application beyond you seeming to ask for a number of bumps in skills that basically allows you to skip a number of days of play time. This isn't really what the special application process is for. Special applications are for compelling concepts that need special setup, guilds/races you don't have access to, or special/extenuating requests that are outside the normal play possibilities. While a special application may call for a specific skill bump to back up something historically relevant to the concept, this isn't an across the board raise of skills to explain time played. There isn't any harm in making the request, but part of the enjoyment of playing armageddon is playing the character and watching it learn and evolve. And to keep it fair, we attempt to keep a level playing field where everyone needs to do that, giving them time to really get into their character. Have fun playing armageddon, and we look forward to your next application.

So if you can't do this through a special application process, I doubt that they will ever let you do through an automated system.

[Salt Merchant]

Once upon a time, when a character died, the next character started with some portion of the former's skills.

I liked this system and don't know why it was removed.

[lingering]

Once upon a time, when a character died, the next character started with some portion of the former's skills.

I liked this system and don't know why it was removed.

Five city elf assassins followed by a half-giant assassin.

[Taven]

Once upon a time, when a character died, the next character started with some portion of the former's skills.

I liked this system and don't know why it was removed.

Wait, what? How does that work? Please explain. If you had a warrior PC who had branched X warrior-skills, and then you made, oh, a magicker, how would that transfer? This confuses me.

[Salt Merchant]

Once upon a time, when a character died, the next character started with some portion of the former's skills.

I liked this system and don't know why it was removed.

Five city elf assassins followed by a half-giant assassin.

Skills, not stats. And it was only a fraction, not a main part. It wouldn't help your half-giant be god-like no matter how many elves came before it.

Basically, it meant you didn't have to keep starting as a total noob.

Wait, what? How does that work? Please explain. If you had a warrior PC who had branched X warrior-skills, and then you made, oh, a magicker, how would that transfer? This confuses me.

I'm not sure how it worked between classes. I think only the overlapping skills transferred. And nothing that was branched.

[Solifugid]

Once upon a time, when a character died, the next character started with some portion of the former's skills.

I liked this system and don't know why it was removed.

And to keep it fair, we attempt to keep a level playing field where everyone needs to do that, giving them time to really get into their character.

That looks like a good reason there.

[5 day lifespan]

Honestly I think I would much rather see skill bumps based on karma for the basic classes.  Granted from our POV, we have no idea how much this will mean.  1 day? 2 days? 3 days?  No idea how much of a stat boost we're talking here, but I think it would be appropriate.  Honestly I don't feel there is any difference in "getting more time to get to know your character" when it comes to picking up a character with better skills to start or picking up a character who is supposed to be a 40 yo noble matriarch who should have dozens of plots in play already.  Both will require time to get to know your character, but one of those is allowed (and regularly requested by staff) and the other is not.

Obviously if someone has karma there is less likely to be a chance for abuse, and it will also very likely DECREASE the number of people rolling magickers for the sheer glee of it if they have another option with their karma.  Dunno what the population is like in 'Nak atm, but it was pretty nutz.  Much rather see people spending Karma on 10 days worth of greasy merc than ANOTHER gemmer.

And honestly I think starting with stat boosts is a better idea than just starting with a rank.  I usually can tell someone's relative worth if I'm a noble and I hire some filthy Byn.  "A Sergeant, three troopers and a runner" is a team that can handle alot of shit.  But if two of those troopers are less than a day played... that could be 5 dead men and nothing accomplished.

[Fathi]

Once upon a time, when a character died, the next character started with some portion of the former's skills.

I liked this system and don't know why it was removed.

And to keep it fair, we attempt to keep a level playing field where everyone needs to do that, giving them time to really get into their character.

That looks like a good reason there.

"Hrm, you know what? Murder, Corruption, Betrayal just doesn't sound all that good anymore. How's about a new tagline?"

"Armageddon: Balance, Equality, Level Playing Fields sounds pretty awesome to me."

[rishenko]

"Hrm, you know what? Murder, Corruption, Betrayal just doesn't sound all that good anymore. How's about a new tagline?"

"Armageddon: Balance, Equality, Level Playing Fields sounds pretty awesome to me."

Please don't make Armageddon socialist.

[FantasyWriter]

"Hrm, you know what? Murder, Corruption, Betrayal just doesn't sound all that good anymore. How's about a new tagline?"

"Armageddon: Balance, Equality, Level Playing Fields sounds pretty awesome to me."

Please don't make Armageddon socialist.

LMAO!

[Salt Merchant]

And to keep it fair, we attempt to keep a level playing field where everyone needs to do that, giving them time to really get into their character.

That looks like a good reason there.

A level playing field? It doesn't exist in Arm, and in fact people have complained bitterly about this on the GDB. How the magicker characters of some players get powerful with so little effort, for instance.  How half-giants raiders can squelch anyone with a single subdue. Other characters, such as templars and nobles, just start out with more power than most characters will ever achieve. Etc. Talking about a level playing field isn't a good argument in a context like this.

Also, which staff member posted that? They don't always speak for the entire staff when they post.

[RogueGunslinger]

It was an E-mail. Not a post.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

I think the simplest solution that hasn't yet been suggested: "Don't app shit you can't codedly back! And if you do, don't complain about it."

For instance, I remember apping one character who was older. In his background it said "He was an ex-byn SARGEANT, and world traveler." How do I justify that? "Then he retired and sold shit for 10 years and slowly got rusty and out of shape."

Another way you could look at the x amount of years pissed down the drain is this: Take a starting warrior, and a starting vivaduan. These are both human males from Allanak. Both commoners. Mother was a whore, father wasn't around, blah, blah. 70 inches 8 ten-stones, strait average stats, 1 hour played. Perfectly identical. The difference: one can bash, kick, and parry / one can piss in your flask and charge you for it. Wanna take a bet on who's gonna win in a boxing match? Gauging by their backgrounds, each has a 50/50 chance, right?  So, it's not a ridiculous idea to put all your starting coin on the wiggler, right? How about if the wiggler had 10 days? Or 20?

What's the difference between these two ordinary average commoners? Maybe the warrior learned a few moves in the Byn? Moves that, after years he has only just begun to perfect? During the same years that magicker learned 6 spells. Not the twelve other mages branched with their IG years in the Temple, but he's still pretty proud that he worked his way up from one spell! Maybe your character's a late bloomer? Maybe they were bed-ridden with a disease?

You don't just start life with innate skills (unless you're a magicker, and even then some magickers acquire it as they go). The fact that you can kick/bash/disarm means that you must have spent SOME time fighting in your past.  Maybe you're not as far as some people are after a decade, but hey, you're just a late bloomer!

And as far as advancing through a clan is concerned - time played has less to do with it than the RP you put into it. If you were a Bynner for 10 years, and now you're just a lowly Recruit in the AOD, show some of what you learned! Show some knowledge of tactics, or back-alleys of the city. Not what you can DO, but what you KNOW! Honestly, with crim-code backing you in the city, and sheer numbers backing you in the sands, how well you fight isn't even an issue.

I remember one of my militia members was such a shitty fighter, that after 1 year IG played (warrior class), the newb assassin recruits were beating his booty up and down the sparring floor. HOwever, I was bossing around players with IG months more play time in the clan than me. AND, when we rode to battle, I didn't do a DAMN thing except get knocked out 3 times, and land a single glancing blow on ONE enemy, throughout the whole skirmish. All the other kids in my unit got commemorative pins. I got a Medal of High Bravery or some such shit. I showed up late and spent half the battle sleeping. Haha. Still my favorite character to this day.

Anyways, experience doesn't mean you'll be good. I knew people in school who played a single sport their whole life and still weren't first string.

[Is Friday]

This is just FYI: A 1 hour warrior is going to destroy a 1 hour any-magicker-class in a boxing match.

[Jingo]

Balance -is- a concern of the staffs. I know this because they rejected my assassin app for multiple psionicist skils.

But I'm gonna agree with the op. Progressing through the first five to ten days of a character's skill development is like picking teeth. And there's no garuntee you'll survive it, making you start the same process over with another.

And if you're playing with someone who grinds a bit more twinkishly than you and gets better results; you get this nagging feeling at the back of the skull that you're falling behind in some sort of meta arms race.

[RogueGunslinger]

Balance -is- a concern of the staffs. I know this because they rejected my assassin app for multiple psionicist skils.

But I'm gonna agree with the op. Progressing through the first five to ten days of a character's skill development is like picking teeth. And there's no garuntee you'll survive it, making you start the same process over with another.

And if you're playing with someone who grinds a bit more twinkishly than you and gets better results; you get this nagging feeling at the back of the skull that you're falling behind in some sort of meta arms race.

[Xagon]

Balance -is- a concern of the staffs. I know this because they rejected my assassin app for multiple psionicist skils.

But I'm gonna agree with the op. Progressing through the first five to ten days of a character's skill development is like picking teeth. And there's no garuntee you'll survive it, making you start the same process over with another.

And if you're playing with someone who grinds a bit more twinkishly than you and gets better results; you get this nagging feeling at the back of the skull that you're falling behind in some sort of meta arms race.

I simply cannot understand for some reason. All of my characters have survived at least 5 days. Even my first newbie character.

[Jingo]

Balance -is- a concern of the staffs. I know this because they rejected my assassin app for multiple psionicist skils.

But I'm gonna agree with the op. Progressing through the first five to ten days of a character's skill development is like picking teeth. And there's no garuntee you'll survive it, making you start the same process over with another.

And if you're playing with someone who grinds a bit more twinkishly than you and gets better results; you get this nagging feeling at the back of the skull that you're falling behind in some sort of meta arms race.

I simply cannot understand for some reason. All of my characters have survived at least 5 days. Even my first newbie character.

Yeah, just play a few more characters. Or play them out of the cities. Trust me.

[Is Friday]

Balance -is- a concern of the staffs. I know this because they rejected my assassin app for multiple psionicist skils.

But I'm gonna agree with the op. Progressing through the first five to ten days of a character's skill development is like picking teeth. And there's no garuntee you'll survive it, making you start the same process over with another.

And if you're playing with someone who grinds a bit more twinkishly than you and gets better results; you get this nagging feeling at the back of the skull that you're falling behind in some sort of meta arms race.

I simply cannot understand for some reason. All of my characters have survived at least 5 days. Even my first newbie character.

Yeah, just play a few more characters. Or play them out of the cities. Trust me.

The fact that living out of a city was so dangerous was what attracted me to Arm altogether.