Re: Reminder about what your character knows and feels

[Alberic]

All volunteers' wishes have been granted.  Any other volunteers?

Yay! More staff punishing the people who want to play mundanes. I believe you stated in your post that you would do this to everyone and people were volunteering to give up karma if it would end the magicker flood. I think what you probably should have said (and this would have been more honest) is: I'm sick of you all bitching, shut up or I'll take away your Karma. Beatings will continue until morale improves.

You know what, take my karma too. Someone else said they would give up karma if their character got the skills of a 10 day old. Did you do what he was requesting or just take his karma because he is bringing up a real problem you disagree with.

[bardbard#4]

Take my karma too.  If you know what my account name is.

Nyah nyah.

[mansa]

All volunteers' wishes have been granted.  Any other volunteers?

I'm doing what I can to help moderate the game world.

I'm agreeing to what you sarcastically suggested.

(and what nobody else suggested in the entire thread)

I'm fine with your suggestion.

[Vanth]

What I do believe could help, as I suspect this to be a big part of the cause to the problem, is to stop or severely restrict special apps.

They've been severely restricted for at least 6 months now, as the 15 people who have been declined for psionicists alone, could tell you.

[Reiloth]

All volunteers' wishes have been granted.  Any other volunteers?

I'm sorry Vanth, but it sounds like your asking us to step into a gas chamber.

I completely agree with Ghost and Mansa.

0 karma FTW!!

EDIT: C'mon everyone, jump on board. Who needs Karma, anyways?

[WarriorPoet]

Vanth is correct. I was denied for a Psi due to too many being in game.

But that doesn't address the fact that you can hardly walk ingame without tripping over a spelled-up magicker. Special-apps or earned karma, they're there and they're far too numerous for my, and many others', taste.

-WP

[Lizzie]

So, given the "solution" that many of you have presented, how would you feel if you received this note:

You've been bumped down to 1k because other players think there are too many magickers.  Sorry about that, I know it's the loss of a lot of great roleplaying effort to get up to where you were in karma level.

PS.  If there are too many desert elves we may have to take that last point away as well.

So, should I cut and paste that 500 times and remove everyone's karma, or do you think Dakurus' idea of everyone stepping back and checking to make sure they're not part of the problem, is actually a more reasonable solution?

Why does it have to be an either-or, Vanth? What about special apps, people applying for roles that are already filled by a whole lot of people? Are there currently any magickers of -any- kind, who don't actually have the karma to play what they're playing, and were given permission to play it anyway?

If there is, perhaps a moratorium on magicker special applications is a reasonable solution. Just tell us "hey folks, if you have the karma, great. If not, please don't send in special apps for magickers for now, thanks."

Because - as far as I can tell, MOST of the IC attitude toward magickers is exactly that - IC. From my observation, it is totally and completely IC, sensible, logical, practical, and even discussing WHY it is, would be divulging IC plotline information that some people might not have.

[Elgiva]

I want to keep my karma.

Thank you.

[bardbard#4]

Real Armageddon players don't need karma.

[Shalooonsh]

Yay! More staff punishing the people who want to play mundanes. I believe you stated in your post that you would do this to everyone and people were volunteering to give up karma if it would end the magicker flood. I think what you probably should have said (and this would have been more honest) is: I'm sick of you all bitching, shut up or I'll take away your Karma. Beatings will continue until morale improves.

You know what, take my karma too. Someone else said they would give up karma if their character got the skills of a 10 day old. Did you do what he was requesting or just take his karma because he is bringing up a real problem you disagree with.

You have missed the point.

How do you see this as punishment?  The people who offered and volunteered karma worked very hard to earn it, and are completely serious (to my knowledge) about bringing mundanity back to the game, so serious, as a matter of fact, that they are willing to sacrifice something that has, in many cases, taken YEARS to accrue.

We are not punishing them, we are taking them seriously, and noting that they are truly wanting to help the game at the cost of something that they have worked very hard for.

[Vanth]

I'm not punishing anyone.  If your offer of giving up your karma wasn't serious, just say so and I'll give it back.

Jeez, some of you guys are seriously paranoid.

[WarriorPoet]

I want to keep my karma.

Thank you.

I want to keep the trust I've earned from the staff by playing, in a realistic manner according to the docs, a game I love and dedicate  most of my free time to. I worked for years to earn that trust, and would hate for it to be taken away.

But race/guild options shouldn't necessarily equate with that trust.

-WP urges everyone to stay cool. Such a loaded issue could easily erupt into flaming, and that's not what we need here.

[Coat of Arms]

How big a percentage of ordinary elementalist special apps have been rejected in the past year? The problem is not just psionicists, it's the fact that the PC population is leaning closer and closer toward having mundane characters as an actual minority. I don't think we're there yet, those who claimed that magickers are numbering 75% are obviously exaggarating, but I know that at least one area of the game literally has more magickers than mundanes at this moment.

Of course one can argue that an increase in special characters is to be expected as the playerbase gradually earns more karma. This increase, however, is not exactly steady and linear. It's clear to any established player here that the number of non-mundane characters sky-rocketed around the time of the announcement, and have been increasing ever since, to the point where a lot of the players are finding the game unappealing, especially because we feel (not necessarily correctly, but this is the impression some get) that the staff is doing nothing about it, or actually tries to shut up those who mention it. I don't speak for everybody, but I know I'm not alone with my opinions, as is evident.

I think we're beyond the threads where half of the playerbase is claiming that magicker numbers are too high and the other half claims that it's a lie. Noone seems to be doubting or denying it anymore. It's so obvious no matter where you play, no matter what you play, that you can't squint an eye without seeing magickers and sorcerers and mindbenders, or the effects of their increased numbers.

I just submitted a special app for an elementalist character, because I want to be prepared for the day when Zalanthas becomes a world where mundanes are very rare and mysterious.

[bardbard#4]

Know too, though, Shalooonsh, that some of us didn't "work for our karma".  I know I certainly didn't.  That makes the karma seem like an end in itself, and for me it definitely wasn't.  I would have been happy to never have had a single point of karma.  In fact my twinkiest moment ever came because I got magicker karma and decided to try, oh...probably about 15000 or so permutations of 3-letter-words (with vowels) to discover one of the reach words.

And I did discover it, and I laughed when Halaster sent me the "I caught you" email.  I just didn't care, because I don't care about karma.

-bb#4 thinks good roleplay is the best reward for good roleplay.

[Alberic]

You have missed the point.

How do you see this as punishment?  The people who offered and volunteered karma worked very hard to earn it, and are completely serious (to my knowledge) about bringing mundanity back to the game, so serious, as a matter of fact, that they are willing to sacrifice something that has, in many cases, taken YEARS to accrue.

We are not punishing them, we are taking them seriously, and noting that they are truly wanting to help the game at the cost of something that they have worked very hard for.

BS. Everyone here who has given up karma is already playing a mundane. They didn't need to lose their karma, they were volunteering to if that's what it took to fix the game.

What you have done instead is strip the karma from everyone who volunteers in an attempt to intimidate everyone into shutting up. The people who are the problem (ie: The magickers) aren't going to volunteer to give up their karma because they like playing magickers and don't see themselves as a problem.

Stripping the volunteers of karma changes nothing as you aren't changing anything about magickers.

Edit to reply to Vanth's post: I'm serious. I have no clue if I have any karma or not but if I do take it. If people giving up karma is what it take to make you realize that we are serious about this being a problem then take all that you want. The email address on my forum and my arm account should be the same if you need that to help find me. If not PM me and I'll give you my account name.

[mansa]

Perhaps a player - staff meeting is in order?

[Lizzie]

and yeah I agree with Elgiva. I've been playing since early 2006, I've had karma since mid-2006, and I haven't had the opportunity to use any of it yet. I'd love to play a magicker, or desert elf, or a desert-elf magicker for that matter. I also don't think "too many magickers" is a problem. I simply disagree with the docs which state that magicks are rare and mysterious.

Either the staff needs to MAKE them rare and mysterious (since they are the only ones who can do that), or they need to change the docs. Players shouldn't have to sacrifice karma points for this at all.

[bardbard#4]

I simply disagree with the docs which state that magicks are rare and mysterious.

Is this because you think there SHOULD be a ton of magick?  Or because you see that as things are, that statement is not actually the case?  God, I hope it's the latter.  The former attitude, in abundance, frightens me more than Islamofascist terrorists and will truly wreck the game.

*shudders*

[Bebop]

I agree with Mansa and Lizzie.

SOMETHING needs to be done.  I would like to hear a clear and concise answer as to what is going to be done in this matter.  I think we as the players who feel we are losing the game that we loved deserve at least that.  We have spent countless hours as the staff have, but unlike the staff we have no power to make a decision on the situation.

I think those that do have that power should present their intentions clearly and steps to change the docs or steps to erradicate the HUGE increase of magicker involvement in a game that has been packaged to its players as low fantasy for years.

You may scoop up my bowl of M and Ms or take one piece of candy at a time, either way - my fucking candy is still gone!

[Gimfalisette]

Vanth, as long as there's a note on my account that says "this player has offered to give up her karma in order to promote mundane roleplay, not because we no longer trust her with this level" then that is cool. I am down with that. I got all my karma playing mundane roles, I'll stick to playing mundane roles until we don't have an issue anymore.

Can we get a running tally of the karma donation pool? That would make this fun.

Come on, folks, let's give up 100 karma today! We can do at least that!

[Forest Junkie]

You can go ahead and take all of mine away as well. Perhaps having 0 karma will bring me back to the older days when my love for rangers was at its peak. I'd much rather force myself into helping our community. Not having any other options before me will help limit my scope and allow me to focus merely on roleplaying as a mundane.

Honestly, I think this is a great idea. Count me in.

[mansa]

Vanth, I love you, but I believe "Karma" isn't the problem, nor part of the solution.

[Alberic]

Vanth, as long as there's a note on my account that says "this player has offered to give up her karma in order to promote mundane roleplay, not because we no longer trust her with this level" then that is cool. I am down with that. I got all my karma playing mundane roles, I'll stick to playing mundane roles until we don't have an issue anymore.

Can we get a running tally of the karma donation pool? That would make this fun.

Come on, folks, let's give up 100 karma today! We can do at least that!

Quoted for truth.

[Lizzie]

I simply disagree with the docs which state that magicks are rare and mysterious.

Is this because you think there SHOULD be a ton of magick?  Or because you see that as things are, that statement is not actually the case?  God, I hope it's the latter.  The former attitude, in abundance, frightens me more than Islamofascist terrorists and will truly wreck the game.

*shudders*

Well drama pose of "OMG these game players are worse than actual real life terrorists" aside...

I was stating the obvious. Magicks are NOT rare and mysterious, therefore the documentation is inaccurate. It's just a fact. I personally don't think the current wave of magicks is a problem, because *I* perceive it to be an IC, In-Game BIG DEAL SITUATION that shouldn't be discussed on the OOC forum and should be handled ICLy.

I'll repeat that: I do not see this wave of magickers and the attitudes toward them, ICly, as an OOC problem. AT ALL. I see it as an in-character, in-game situation, revolving around some pretty significant in-game, in-character plotlines, and makes absolutely totally and utterly perfect IN CHARACTER sense to me.

[Elgiva]

IMHO if staff makes real attempt to lower number of magickers in game, people who enjoy play them will start to complain about it similary as you do (and perhaps even leave the game, who knows?). Yes, there is a lot of magickers in game. I guess that means that a lot of people enjoy playing them, right? (And actually, doesn't it mean that you, who complain, are not the most of playerbase, because if most people agree with you, there won't be more magickers than mundane players?) Why would you want this people to play something they don't enjoy just because you (who play mundanes, want to play mundanes) don't like it?

I like both kind of roles, karma or not. Since the announcement, I spent more time playing mundane roles than karma roles. I agree there is a lot of magick in game. And you know, I don't have trouble with it. What I have trouble with is IG-interaction, where some Obvious Conflicts are ignored. And right, that's not only about magick.