Re: Reminder about what your character knows and feels

[a strange shadow]

But how can magickers not be roleplaying properly? After all, everyone with karma is a great roleplayer who can be trusted with powerful roles or has had their special app carefully reviewed and approved because of their history of consistantly good rp.

Ah heh heh... I'm not touching this one.

[Krath]

I wish no announcement had been made that the game was ending. I hate playing magickers
and I love having my mundanes hate them, however, when three out of four pcs is a magicker
I am not going to -not- interact with them and have to constantly solo by myself or leave a
popular establishment because of it.

I understand the Staff's feelings towards being more relaxed with people playing karma classes
that do not have it, but IMHO it is killing the game. Too many special apps, too many magickers,
why couldn' we just keep a quota like we used to. I dunno, If the imms really want the game to
go back to normal, I -THINK- they would restrict the number of special apps and magickers
in the game.

I am not a staffer, so maybe there is something I am not seeing, but As much as I respect
all of you, but you all have brought it up, realism vs playability, and Frankly it wouldn't
be that fun of a game if I could not interact with 75% of the PC population because I am
a mundane.

[mansa]

...I have to ask, where is the conflict now?

The conflict is between the characters and survival.  When the world ends, you're going to try everything you damn well can do to survive the apocalypse.

The problem was created with the announcement.  The 'goal' of people's enjoyment changed.  They want their characters to survive.  (which is part of the reason why we play the game.)

You're telling me to not play to survive, because the main source of conflict for my character is the death that is coming soon.   You don't roleplay in a cardboard box.  I hope everybody realizes that you're telling me to play the game for reasons I don't want to play the game for.

People realize this, right?  Right?  

How to fix it?  - End the world now, this weekend.  Take a break.  Focus attention on the new game.  Start it up again with a bang.  Take this dying creature out and shoot it.  Because this experiment has gone on for a year, and it's not fun.

Or, forcefully retire 75% of the total population of players.

Because 75% of the total population of players aren't mundane.

[Elgiva]

I think people (understand - players) should stop complaining about other people's RP. Read the post. Think about the post. If you think you do something wrong, change it. Let other people to have fun with playing whatever they enjoy to play. If they do something wrong, either they got hint after this post or perhaps they don't do anything wrong. And if so, I'm sure IMMs will correct their misunderstanding sooner or later.

Honestly, threads like this make me to think I'd not read GDB at all. It only makes me not in mood to log in the game.

[morrigan]

It seems like everyone is begging the imms to "fix everything" for them. That's so sad and indicative of today's society. Wouldn't it be nice to have someone else take care of all your problems? Seems like the  best solution would be for everyone ranting about how we need more mundanes and need to get back to the RP of old, to just do it, instead of bitching about it.

Want to see less magickers? Get a group of your magicker hating friends and go hunt them down.

Want to see more people RPing the average citizen?  Do it yourself.

Lead by example. If you want the humans to hate the elves and breeds...make an issue of it IG. Spit on them, kick them when they get too close, start fights with them for daring to enter your favorite establishment.

Stop complaining about everyone elses RP and focus on your own.

If your character hates magickers, how would they respond IG to the obvious increase in their numbers? Solve it IG, rather than trying to get everyone to agree with you on an OOC level.

[Alberic]

Ummm. Everyone complaining is already playing a mundane. The thing is, there is, the staff are the only ones who can stop the magicker flood. Every magicker that gets killed just goes and makes a new magicker, except this time they will kill the character who killed them on site with magickal powers and the RP excuse of hating mundanes or something. Until staff stop approving tons of magickers there is nothing the mundane players can do.

Also, how are you supposed to put together a group to hunt down magickers when almost everyone is a magicker? Odds are you will accidently recruit a secret magicker and they will have the power to wipe out your whole group.

[Simple]

Man, you people moan a lot.

[mansa]

Man, you people moan a lot.

I've been moaning about this all year long.

[Sokotra]

Okay, let's not get too negative in a discussion about a game.  

I was a little dismayed by the announcement by the staff to begin with, but after reading all of this I am starting to be pushed back toward favoring the staff announcement.  

Here's why:  Because I think it is obvious that there are a good amount of people out there that are going against the docs for the wrong reasons.  Like I said myself, I know that it is hard to hate and fear majickers when you see them all the time, but regardless of whether or not you temporarily befriend a majicker - you should be constantly plotting and planning on ways to get rid of the majickers.  That's just my opinion - and one that I should be following a little more myself.  But yeah, I guess it still depends on your character.  

Still, even if you do have an ally that happens to be a majicker - I find it hard to believe that you will suddenly love and understand all the other wretched abominations out there that indirectly curse you just by walking and breathing in the same region as you.

Over the years I've seen a movement toward the "we are majickers, we should unite and all sing happy songs and dance together".  I think that is kinda annoying and unrealistic, but perhaps a -little- IC'ly correct in certain circumstances.  Yet I am guessing that it is happening a little too often than it should in the harsh world of Zalanthas.  This kinda goes for the acceptance of half-elves and elves also.

So to summarize, yeah... either the world has changed or the amount of PC's playing majickers have changed.  I'm guessing that the world has changed a little less and people are just acting a little too much like it has changed more.  I'm also guessing that if everyone started hating and fearing majickers a little more (at least in their own mind or behind closed doors while they plot to lessen their numbers a lot more) then there might be a little less of a problem.  

The obsidian blade will likely cut both ways.

[Sokotra]

Also, how are you supposed to put together a group to hunt down magickers when almost everyone is a magicker? Odds are you will accidently recruit a secret magicker and they will have the power to wipe out your whole group.

I would imagine that there are a lot of majickers out there that hate other majickers - or at least that's the way I think it should be.  Or they may at least hate majickers of other kinds.  *shrug*  But yeah, you may be discovered and wiped out... that's no reason not to try harder.  

[Tarx]

Remember, kids:  hate makes the world go 'round.

(Or at least turn the world into a gigantic dustbowl.)

[Simple]

I think if you have a newly created character that starts mouthing off to elves, calling half-elves crazy, and abuses magickers, you won't live very long. You need the back up of some of the longer living and more respected characters.

If people start doing it, it might bring things in the right direction.

What say, chums?

[Krath]

Ok, Morrigan, I have never done this before because it has not been warranted until your
post.

It seems like everyone is begging the imms to "fix everything" for them. That's so sad and indicative of today's society. Wouldn't it be nice to have someone else take care of all your problems? Seems like the  best solution would be for everyone ranting about how we need more mundanes and need to get back to the RP of old, to just do it, instead of bitching about it. .

I am going to -guess- you have not been around for more than a couple of years. Lets start by the definition of administrator from Dictionary.com:    a person who manages or has a talent for managing.

Now because I can see you being the nitpick type here is the definition of Managing:    to bring about or succeed in accomplishing, sometimes despite difficulty or hardship. DEF #2:    to take charge or care of

So what can we conclude, an administrator is someone who has a talent for taking charge and care of something despite difficulty or hardship. Meaning if there is a problem they fix it, Hence the discussion. And believe it or not, all things can not be handled ICly. And so you DO know, the only reason there are an influx of Magickers is because they are being lax with special apps. There used to be a quota of how many special apps could be in the game at one time, not any more since the game is going down, everyone will be able to try a race or class they want to.

Mansa if you could find that link that Sanvean wrote that post, I would appreciate it.

Next:

Want to see less magickers? Get a group of your magicker hating friends and go hunt them down..

Do you even have any idea how long it takes for a mundane to advance to the point where he can beat a magicker? It takes a magicker 3-7 days played generally to be able to kill advanced mundanes somewhat easily. Do you know how long it takes a mundane generally to get their skills to a level where they might be able to survive an attack from a decently trained magicker? Try 20-30 days played as opposed to the 3-7 for the magicker.

Want to see more people RPing the average citizen?  Do it yourself.

In case you either can not read, or just choose to ignore the obvious, the people that are complaining ARE playing Mundanes, or at least 95% of them.

Lead by example. If you want the humans to hate the elves and breeds...make an issue of it IG. Spit on them, kick them when they get too close, start fights with them for daring to enter your favorite establishment.

This I agree with, I do it myself, so a good point.

Stop complaining about everyone else's RP and focus on your own

Once again if you were to read the thread you would know no one is COMPLAINING about anyones RP, they are complaining that being told by an imm to act accordingly towards magickers, elves, whatever it may be, when they are close to 60-75% of the pc population, come on, why would I want to play a game where I can only interact kindly to 1 in 2 pcs, maybe 1 in 4. It is called Realism vs Playability, there have been many threads on this issue.

If your character hates magickers, how would they respond IG to the obvious increase in their numbers? Solve it IG, rather than trying to get everyone to agree with you on an OOC level.

My favorite statement. Once again, if it was real life, and you hate a certain fraternity, and they outnumber you 3 to 1, are a hell of a lot more powerful than you, can beat your ass from a distance, burn you with a snap of a finger, how would you solve it, by being a complete dick in hopes they beat your ass so everyone will agree with you, or befriending them?

[Morfeus]

For some odd reason this thread reminds me all "Lets close Tuluk" discussions I saw on GDB over years.

[Sokotra]

My favorite statement. Once again, if it was real life, and you hate a certain fraternity, and they outnumber you 3 to 1, are a hell of a lot more powerful than you, can beat your ass from a distance, burn you with a snap of a finger, how would you solve it, by being a complete dick in hopes they beat your ass so everyone will agree with you, or befriending them?

In the meantime, plot to turn the tables against them.  That's the part that I think is getting overlooked.  No, I wouldn't do that in real life unless they just continued to be jackasses who did stupid stuff like date rape and picking on others.

This is Armageddon.  Majickers will always be majickers, whether you befriend them or not.  They will always be wretched, unnatural beasts that need to be slaughtered eventually.  So yeah, befriend them until the time is right... (which should be as short a time as possible) let them trust you and then... *splat*

[brytta.leofa]

Every magicker that gets killed just goes and makes a new magicker, except this time they will kill the character who killed them on sight with magickal powers and the RP excuse of hating mundanes or something.

Alberic, if you think this is actually happening, you should report it to staff, to whom such behavior ought to be very transparent (account Amos' PC killed by account Malik's PC ==> account Malik's PC killed by account Amos' new PC).  That's surely plenty of excuse to get Angry Amos' karma wiped.

If it's not happening, don't spread baseless nasty rumors. :lol: We've got plenty of rancor going without hyperbole.

[Gimfalisette]

Everyone loves my numbers, so here, have some:

-- My current character has interacted * with at least 92 non-mundane characters. (No telling how many total, since there could be a quantity who kept things sekret.)
-- Of those, 27 have been sorcerors, mindbenders, or Nilazis. (29%)

* Interaction includes all sorts of things, from "saw a guy with gem at bar" to "battled against" to "battled alongside" to "hung out and had some brews" to "gritted my teeth while it touched me" to "fell in love with before I knew what they were."

[morrigan]

You're right Krath. Only about three years or so of playtime, with long breaks in between. I don't see what that has to do with anything though. I'm quite capable of forming opinions in the blink of an eye, as is just about everyone else in the world.  Also, I realize that some of what I said was a bit generalized. That's how I speak...generally. As for the chances of beating down the magickers, without giving away any IC info, I'll just say it is -very possible- even for weak characters, especially if you get a groupe of 3 to 1 or more against said magicker. I wasn't trying to imply that there -aren't- too many magickers, just emphasize that mundanes, like myself, need to focus on our character's lives, rather than the non-mundane's.  My current character is doing quite well avoiding magickers...hasn't "met" one yet. I find it hard to believe that the mundanes are outnumbered overall, but then, I'm not privy to those stats. And yes, I understand what you're saying about the admins being in the position to help, but how many threads like this have there been? Have they smote the excess magickers with their mighty powers of smiting yet? So, what I was meaning to say is, perhaps the time for complaining is over and everyone will just have to do their best until the problem is resolved in one way or another.

[Lizzie]

One thing I would like to say, which I think is a different perspective on many people who disagree with the staffmember's original post.

I have nothing against the influx of magickers, because I started playing when there already was one. RPwise, I know no different, so I'm not spoiled "against" it. What I have a problem with, is the documentation that insists these magickers are rare and as a result of their rarity and mystery surrounding what they can and cannot do, should be feared/loathed/hated.

They are neither rare nor mysterious, because they cast openly in front of mundanes on a regular basis. If they are neither rare nor mysterious, then the basis of the fear/loathing/hatred falls away and is no longer valid.

Now, if you want to fear/hate/loathe them because they can kill you easier than you can kill them, great. If your fear/hatred/loathing is because they're abominations and the abominations are TAKING OVER THE WORLD, terrific. If it's because you have the magicker version of penis-envy, awesome. All are valid reasons to fear/hate/loathe a magicker IMO.

But don't tell me I have to fear/hate/loathe because they're rare and mysterious, because I'll just tell you I disagree and its the docs that need to be changed, not me who has to comply with the docs.

[Krath]

What you said, just to stop the spam

Ok, I misunderstood you then. I see what you are saying and agree, I thought you meant that
the number of magickers was fine.

[mansa]

I don't think we should be making characters with the specific goal to kill magicker PCs.  That's nearing twinkish.

[Relleu]

I just wanted to respond to people's thoughts about when elves, half-elves, or other undesireables are the only mundanes around to interact with.  The documentation most certainly does not state that humans do not interact with elves or half-elves.  Your interactions can be more extensive than a scowl from across the room without being completely buddy-buddy.  If you are of a very high social standing, you might find your potential interactions with these races more limited, but in that case, you are also playing an exceptional character, and you should understand and be comfortable with their limitations

You can interact, and do business with elves and half-elves.  Elves, in particular, are known for being good at acquiring special goods.  That doesn't mean you have to be best friends.  Most players of elves and half-elves would be thrilled to have interactions with other characters that are laced with scorn, distrust, and insulting undertones.  They know to expect this kind of treatment and roll with it, and it will probably earn you more respect from them, IC and OOC.  Someone who plays at being best buddies with an elf is most likely going to get ripped off.  If they don't understand the expectations of their racial roleplay, it's time they learn, and you're the one to teach them.


So yes, talk to them, do business, make deals, do things that benefit you.  It doesn't mean you have to like them, or even pretend to.

[Dakurus]

Although I understand that the discussions around mundanes vs magickers and around the number of magickers are currently hot topics, some of those who have commented are correct. The announcement is not specific to those areas. It's magickers to magickers, tribes to tribes, races to races, cultures to cultures, lowbrow to highbrow and so on. These relationships form the base of the environment. Yes, many other factors affect this, including the numbers of people playing a particular guild, or even the number of players currently in a clan.

I'm sure that many of you are aware that we as staff can monitor you, be it your emotes, says, thinks, and so on, but obviously we can only know what you tell the game, not what goes on in your players head. If we can't see the resentment, fear, capitulation, anger, disgust, sorrow, horror, plotting, sadness, surprise, caution, stress, and other multitude of emotions that these relationships could cause, it's very likely that the other players themselves cannot either.

We're all a team here. Each bringing our own skills and talents to the game. The framework is there, so we have a commonplace to start and in theory to finish.

So you see more elves, so you see more magickers, does that mean you trust them any more? Perhaps you don't run in fear at some point, but don't you still check your pockets as a force of years of ingrained habit. Make offhand racist jokes accidentally or purposefully. Don't you still question their motivation? Wonder when they're going to decide to eat your heart or drain your lifeforce? And when you meet that next one, what makes you think they are like the last, these aliens, these outsiders, these folks whose ways are strange, ways you cannot share. Evaluate each and every relationship with outsiders carefully, each on it's own merits, as your character would think, not your player. What drives you into that relationship, what keeps you there, and what does your upbringing and your people think about such a thing. Consider the relationships that your character would not have, no matter what, and what the breaking point would be. Violence is a common answer on zalanthas, but far far from the only one.

So review the documentation, you as a human will never be an elf, you'll never really understand their nature, and you have some pretty definitive beliefs about them.
Mind benders, Defilers, the very scourge of the world. Sucking the life out of the planet, your soul, sapping your will, putting thoughts into your head.
Nilazis, the very anti-thesis of elementalists.
Muls, deadly, dangerous, bred, slaves (ex), and who outside them understands their motivations, their mood swings.
HGs, halflings, rinthers, nobles, etc

[a strange shadow]

They are neither rare nor mysterious, because they cast openly in front of mundanes on a regular basis. If they are neither rare nor mysterious, then the basis of the fear/loathing/hatred falls away and is no longer valid.

This is the fault of the magicker player for not being discreet, and the fault of the mundane player for being willing to stick around while magick is being cast (without a background of familiarity with magick; being a tribal whose mother is a vivaduan is one thing, being a Tuluki is another). It doesn't automatically make it okay to start chumming around with life-sucking sorcerers.

[brytta.leofa]

They are neither rare nor mysterious, because they cast openly in front of mundanes on a regular basis.

Good point.  It's probably somewhat unwise for even gemmers to flaunt their powers if there's any alternative.