Re: Reminder about what your character knows and feels

[WarriorPoet]

Vanth, as long as there's a note on my account that says "this player has offered to give up her karma in order to promote mundane roleplay, not because we no longer trust her with this level" then that is cool. I am down with that. I got all my karma playing mundane roles, I'll stick to playing mundane roles until we don't have an issue anymore.

Can we get a running tally of the karma donation pool? That would make this fun.

Come on, folks, let's give up 100 karma today! We can do at least that!

Quoted for truth.

Word.

-WP has five karma. Throw it into the pool, but let me keep the trust I've earned.

[Cavaticus]

Vanth, I love you, but I believe "Karma" isn't the problem, nor part of the solution.

Sometimes a gesture, though not "solving" anything, is still very meaningful.

I applaud those of you making the gesture.

[bardbard#4]

Well drama pose of "OMG these game players are worse than actual real life terrorists" aside...

I was stating the obvious. Magicks are NOT rare and mysterious, therefore the documentation is inaccurate. It's just a fact. I personally don't think the current wave of magicks is a problem, because *I* perceive it to be an IC, In-Game BIG DEAL SITUATION that shouldn't be discussed on the OOC forum and should be handled ICLy.

I'll repeat that: I do not see this wave of magickers and the attitudes toward them, ICly, as an OOC problem. AT ALL. I see it as an in-character, in-game situation, revolving around some pretty significant in-game, in-character plotlines, and makes absolutely totally and utterly perfect IN CHARACTER sense to me.

Word.

And sorry for the drama.

[Bebop]

Vanth, I love you, but I believe "Karma" isn't the problem, nor part of the solution.

Sometimes a gesture, though not "solving" anything, is still very meaningful.

I applaud those of you making the gesture.

Meaningful as it maybe - in the end it will be for nothing if nothing is done.

[a strange shadow]

Giving up Karma is only a stopgap measure, and many of you are letting your dislike of the way the current "face" of the game appears affect your judgement. Zalanthas has always been a world shaped and saturated by magick - the difference between now and then boils down to two main concerns. Concern number one: players with supernatural characters are not being discreet about their powers, causing their visible presence to skyrocket. Concern number two: mages have received a lot of attention (coded skills, GDB uproar) over the past couple years, which causes many to play them out of curiosity.

Solution to concern number one: those who are careless with their supernatural PCs should suffer the consequences, even if that involves staff intervention to properly reflect the virtual world.

Solution to concern number two: introduce more skills and plots that focus entirely on mundane characters and abilities, aka give the normal folks some love.

Now, why don't we all take a deep breath, relax, and remember that this is a cooperative story we tell, and intended to be for fun and enjoyment. This thread is starting to remind me of a kindergarten class where everyone's very mad at their teacher for serving chocolate chip cookies instead of peanut butter, so they start throwing temper tantrums before she can even explain that she's got another box of cookies sitting in the desk.

[psionic fungus]

Honestly, the gesture seems like preaching to the choir.  The people playing mundanes, who believe there are too many magickers in the world already, give up the ability to play magickers... What changes?  Were these people playing high-magick roles?  I highly doubt the players that are being complained about, players who play one magicker after another, are giving up their karma, or their ability to continue playing the types of characters that are being complained about.

If they are not part of the problem, how can their gesture be part of the solution?

[Janna]

You're welcome to take mine off as well, should you like, but it would hardly matter if you did or didn't as I don't use it and have no interest in using it at all anytime soon as I have more ideas for mundane roles then I do for non-mundane ones.

[Lizzie]

Screw that, strange shadow. If they want their peanutbutter cookies that bad, let them break into the teacher's desk. And while they're explaining that to the principal, I'll be lovin on them chocolate chips.

[Ktavialt]

I think the "volunteers" should re-think what they just committed to =).  What they said about taking away their karma was meant to be "take mine if you take others' karma too."

Here is what I think are some nice serious options:

Karma Point Regeneration OptionS
Staff raises the karma limit your character can have instead of the karma amount.  Karma gets added like 1 per 3 months, until you reach your current limit.

Hard-Coded Limit on # of Certain Guild/Classes
Code something to track the number of hours played per mundane, per lower tier magicker, per higher tier magicker, per sorcerer, and per psi.

If # of hours/week is more than a certain amount, player is unable to pick class/race, and gets a notification during character creation regarding roughly how high the concentration is.

In addition, also have special app slots for each of it (like 1 reserved for a spec app sorc, 1 for spec app psi, 3 for spec app high tier magicker, etc.)  These get used up when the staff sees a special app they like.

Counter Role Offers/Plotlines
Depending on where the concentration of players is at, the staff could offer particular roles which could suitably counter the higher concentration roles that are existing.  In other words, too many gemmers and you may see a role opening for a Tuluki Legion Assassin or a Nilazi.  Maybe a modest starting skill boost for those roles as well.  Or, certain plotlines could revolve around magickal diseases and things like that.

Or we could have another Tuluki/Allanaki war (teh awesome, people would go mundane for that).

- Ktavialt

[LoD]

The people who offered and volunteered karma worked very hard to earn it, and are completely serious (to my knowledge) about bringing mundanity back to the game, so serious, as a matter of fact, that they are willing to sacrifice something that has, in many cases, taken YEARS to accrue.

We are not punishing them, we are taking them seriously, and noting that they are truly wanting to help the game at the cost of something that they have worked very hard for.

If this is a shared viewpoint amongst the Imms, and if this demonstration helps the current game recover from a problem that has been growing for years, then I am more than happy to volunteer my magicker karma as well.

For the good of Armageddon, present and future.

-LoD

[Fnord]

This is the best thread on the GDB in months. Super bonus drama points! :twisted:

As for the subject at hand:

Some friends suggested that sorc/psi only be learned IC and not be app'able period. I like that idea.

I attribute the current problem to: everyone thought Arm 1.0 would end fast, so many magickal "end of the world" plots developed, and some mundane PCs were... enhanced. Then Arm 2.0 was delayed indefinitely. This had a domino effect in that the world was left with many magickal plots and players, and now we're dealing with the aftermath. People kept making more magickers or magick-friendly mundanes to be involved in the plots and to increase their survival in an ever increasingly magickal world.

If I could change any one thing it would have been the announcement that Arm 1.0 was ending, but my time machine is in the shop. Nevertheless, the imms are starting to restrict magickal/psi roles again, and that leaves it up to the players to rein things in on our beloved game gone wild.

[Ghost]

I'm not punishing anyone.  If your offer of giving up your karma wasn't serious, just say so and I'll give it back.

Jeez, some of you guys are seriously paranoid.

I am serious if you will seriously drop 98% of players or more, to 1 karma or lower.  (A condition I put in my first post!)

[Ghost]

Karma Point Regeneration OptionS
Staff raises the karma limit your character can have instead of the karma amount.  Karma gets added like 1 per 3 months, until you reach your current limit.

Or we can make it as, you regen one karma per month but it starts after your character dies.

[Vanth]

How big a percentage of ordinary elementalist special apps have been rejected in the past year?

I won't go back a whole year, but I think 6 months is a reasonable time frame.  About 33% of 1-5k apps are accepted, with more like 10% acceptance on 6-8k apps, but that's a bit deceptive if you don't know the actual numbers.

Code Select Expand

Number of accepted non-mundane classes by karma level over 6 months

Vivadu & Ruk                                    9    
Krath & Whira                                   9      
Drov & Elkros                                   3      
Void                                            1      
Sorc                                            3      
Psi                                             1      

Total                                          26
Number of these currently alive:                7

[Yang]

I have pretty much grown so tired of it that I no longer have much incentive to play. Some people I've talked to seem to feel the 'epic' nature of the end is hardly worth playing in. I would absolutely give up my karma... in fact, I probably already have.

If I wanted a high-fantasy setting, I'd play any of the other 1000 muds out there. Thanks, but no thanks.

[Vanth]

I'm not punishing anyone.  If your offer of giving up your karma wasn't serious, just say so and I'll give it back.

Jeez, some of you guys are seriously paranoid.

I am serious if you will seriously drop 98% of players or more, to 1 karma or lower.  (A condition I put in my first post!)

We have over 10k accounts, so I believe that condition is met.  :wink:

[LoD]

Honestly, the gesture seems like preaching to the choir.  The people playing mundanes, who believe there are too many magickers in the world already, give up the ability to play magickers... What changes?  Were these people playing high-magick roles?  I highly doubt the players that are being complained about, players who play one magicker after another, are giving up their karma, or their ability to continue playing the types of characters that are being complained about.

If they are not part of the problem, how can their gesture be part of the solution?

There are demonstrations every year by people who are not "part of the problem" in an effort to make the world listen to their viewpoint.  While many of the people watching may sympathize and already support them, there are others who may listen simply because people have organized and engage in self reflection.

There are people who might view the action with more weight than the words which normally precede it.  The Imms want to provide you with the best game they can.  And if this demonstration makes them look any more closely at current and future game policy, plans, or ideas, then it's a worthwhile endeavor.

And it might be incorrect to assume that everyone choosing to give up their karma neither want, nor appreciate, that choice.

-LoD

[Alberic]

How big a percentage of ordinary elementalist special apps have been rejected in the past year?

I won't go back a whole year, but I think 6 months is a reasonable time frame.  About 33% of 1-5k apps are accepted, with more like 10% acceptance on 6-8k apps, but that's a bit deceptive if you don't know the actual numbers.

The real question is how many non-mundane vs mundane characters there currently are in the world who last more than 2 ic days. That's the % that matters as it tells us how many characters are lasting long enough to make an impact on the game and consistently interact with other characters.

Also, thank you to the staff for finally actually talking to the player base about this issue instead of just locking the thread.

[Vanth]

Look, people, I take this voluntary de-karma-ing seriously, because we are not going to change the karma system in any way that requires new code, as all our coding energies are going to the new game.

Nor do I think special apps are the problem.  Most of the people playing karma classes are using their actual karma that they have.  And I don't think we're awarding karma any more than we used to, it just that there's usually more people who don't use their karma.  But with the end of the game coming (but not in sight yet, folks) more people want to try what they've never tried before, because it might be their last chance.

I don't want to take away their candy once they've already got it, 'cause that would be mean.  But if other people want to go on a diet and forego candy, I'm more than happy to support that.

[Bebop]

How big a percentage of ordinary elementalist special apps have been rejected in the past year?

I won't go back a whole year, but I think 6 months is a reasonable time frame.  About 33% of 1-5k apps are accepted, with more like 10% acceptance on 6-8k apps, but that's a bit deceptive if you don't know the actual numbers.

Code Select Expand

Number of accepted non-mundane classes by karma level over 6 months

Vivadu & Ruk                                    9    
Krath & Whira                                   9      
Drov & Elkros                                   3      
Void                                            1      
Sorc                                            3      
Psi                                             1      

Total                                          26
Number of these currently alive:                7

Did you say 1000-5000 apps every half year?

Seven magickers plus however many are in that haven't had to special app and play regularly.

[Krath]

1-5k means 1-5 karma point classes/races

[Reiloth]

Giving up Karma is only a stopgap measure, and many of you are letting your dislike of the way the current "face" of the game appears affect your judgement. Zalanthas has always been a world shaped and saturated by magick - the difference between now and then boils down to two main concerns. Concern number one: players with supernatural characters are not being discreet about their powers, causing their visible presence to skyrocket. Concern number two: mages have received a lot of attention (coded skills, GDB uproar) over the past couple years, which causes many to play them out of curiosity.

Solution to concern number one: those who are careless with their supernatural PCs should suffer the consequences, even if that involves staff intervention to properly reflect the virtual world.

Solution to concern number two: introduce more skills and plots that focus entirely on mundane characters and abilities, aka give the normal folks some love.

Now, why don't we all take a deep breath, relax, and remember that this is a cooperative story we tell, and intended to be for fun and enjoyment. This thread is starting to remind me of a kindergarten class where everyone's very mad at their teacher for serving chocolate chip cookies instead of peanut butter, so they start throwing temper tantrums before she can even explain that she's got another box of cookies sitting in the desk.

I don't believe your final paragraph is true at all. This is the most mature i've seen the 'face of the playerbase' on the GDB in years.

There -is- a tangible problem with the game right now. If you do not see it, you choose to not see it.

I agree with Lizzie, that these plots are IC, that these problems are IC, that the end of the world is IC, and that the abundance of Magick which has shaped the world and all that horse crap is IC.

OOCly, i am not enjoying this game. I do not really want to play it anymore, and not because i'm a whiny bitch, but because there has been a physical shift of players from roleplay to coded-power. It has turned into a high-fantasy bolt war. Magickers do not care to fear other elements. Mundanes have kinda thrown up their hands saying "Whatever." Magickers wander around the Tablelands frying skeet when they don't even need to eat the food. It has turned into a game of powergaming, in preperation for the end days, where those with the -most- coded power will be able to wrestle their way to the top of a mound of bodies and wave a white flag, and say "I did it! I left my mark that will carry over into Armageddon 2.0". And I will not be surprised, if, by that point, the character actually shouts that in sirihish, in game.

[axismundi]

How to fix it?  - End the world now, this weekend.  Take a break.

You're pretty much guaranteeing an unacceptable amount of attrition from players.  People are going to go elsewhere and find other things to do.  A solid number won't come back for awhile, never hearing about Arm 2.0's re-release.  Some will never come back.

If there are too many magickers, make more templars to kill them!   :twisted:

[Akoto]

If we remove karma in order to solve the magicker problem (which I think is not so bad as to deserve this drama), what happens to the non-magickal karma options? There are several interesting, detailed races available via karma which come without magickal leanings. It would be a shame for those to be swept up in the "solution."

[Gimfalisette]

I cherish and am proud of the fact that I earned 3 karma points' worth of staff trust in a year of playing. I "worked hard" in the sense of giving my roleplay my all, contributing to the game world, and working cooperatively with the staff. I love ARM. I appreciate the staff and the playerbase as a whole.

I just want to see less magick and more mundanity.

So I'm giving up my karma as a form of peaceful demonstration.

I wanted to try playing a Vivaduan again sometime, but I'm OK with not doing that, if my karma donation contributes positively to awareness and discussion and decision-making on this issue.