Re: Reminder about what your character knows and feels

[Gimfalisette]

From what I can tell, here's the current list of players who have committed to playing mundanes and asked to have magicker options removed from their accounts for the present time (whilst also retaining staff trust in them):

Akoto
Alberic
aruna
bardbard#4
Boggis
BuNutzCola
Delirium
Dresan
Fathi
Forest Junkie
Ghost (who started the idea)
Gimfalisette
Hot_Dancer
Janna
Krath
LoD
manonfire
mansa
Maybe42or54
Ourla
path
Reiloth (who also retired his 'gicker)
Rhyden
Twisted Minstrel
WarriorPoet
WWYD
Yang

Kudos to you all.

[Dresan]

I'm not even going to touch this shouting match turn into symbolism sacrifice. No good will come of commenting on it.  :roll:

Oh, and by the way, it's endlessly amusing to me (not the entirety of staff) to watch you GDB users who have PCs who are magickal bitch about how much magick there is in the game and how it never goes away.  You make me giggle for hours.

Its the only reason i bitch at all. I hate hypocracy, so i do try to follow what i bitch which was on how character should think not the number of magickers. Still its hilarious.
-----------------------------------------------------------

I am serious though about 10-20 day mundane characters though. Its just alot easier to get into or start a thick juicy plot with someone that won't die to vestrics. The reason magickers were made easier to train was because imms wanted them to be roleplaying not trained, i believe mundanes should be no different.

Basically i want to play a character i can approach a noble with an say yeah i think i can take out amos that spit on your face last week. Most likely risking death and failure since its hard to impossible to find other mundane partners (and always has been even since i started playing).

Unfortunately plots like the above while fun are just not worth the 4+ months of my RL time i took RPing training which again is boring and often loney, just to get my character to be decent. I could special app for a  mundane character that old but its just way easier to keep making rangers who can do a bit more in the beginning or i make a magicker. Its simple, i feel its just not worth my time otherwise training other mundanes (other then indie rangers which often don't see plots) as opposed to the RP rewards i get for just training a magicker for less then a month.

This is not to say you can't start plots or kill someone or do anything without code. It is very possible and usually the only viable way of doing some things. However these aren't often the way i wish to RP it and those aren't the roles i want to play.

Clans help at least in the beginning... but well all i'm going to say is there are benifits and there are demerits esspecially if your bent on RPing a character properly. So far being in clans has made me leave for over a year or store a wonderful long-lived character. I've often come out feeling clans prevent my character from doing fun plots rather then help it.

You need to do what's best for the game. If that means taking my karma, thats fine. No need to put any notes either, i never ask for notes, you might as well put, "lost all his karma cus he pissed me off and i'm sure he twinks when we aren't watching".  You want to store my character, go for it. I won't complain or bitch or make a big scene i never have before when i stop enjoying the game for whatever reason. I spend my time where i wish, even if i lose all my karma and don't get any 10-20 day old character, i still might make another ranger.

No symbolism though,  i'm just a fair-weather player. So long as the game provides entertainment i'll stay, and it has so far and i'm sure it will continue, when it stops doing that i'll leave without even losing sleep.

[Akoto]

This is a really tough decision. I'm disabled and therefore have a whole lot of time to play. The variety my options give me means a lot. That said, I suppose that variety won't count for very much if nobody else is around to play with.

So long as I'll retain my ability to play karma-required races, go ahead and remove my magicker options.

[Ourla]

Now all of you go play in the places that need all the mundanes they can get.

[spawnloser]

I stopped reading... people are posting faster than I can read and still play the game that I love.

I'm just going to respond to a couple things...

Lizzie, you say that being exposed to something constantly means that you'll eventually stop fearing it?  No.  This is not true.  Will being exposed to scalding water make it so that eventually it will not burn?  Have your character think along these lines.  "I saw another of those filthy, disgusting magickers!  Krath, they give me the heebie-jeebies."  Your character shouldn't stop fearing them because of exposure.  They're all people of questionable morals carrying around a tactical nuke in a suitcase, as far as your character is concerned... or at least a machine gun.  Sure, maybe ONE of them can convince you that s/he isn't going to use it on you... but why should your character cease to distrust the rest of them?

And for the people saying that magickers are the uber and that they're so powerful and that's why people are playing them blah blah blah.  Not everyone is trying to get their character to survive THROUGH the endtimes.  The characters are trying to survive, yes, but the players are often enough just wanting to make an impact.  Also, not all magickers are as grossly powerful as you'd like to think... AC said something which I sympathize with.  I've never branched a magicker character as fast as you people say they can be branched.  Maybe I'm just doing it wrong?  Then again, maybe I'm just doing it right.

[Twisted Minstrel]

I for one don't want to see magick gone. I want it to be the stuff of mystery, rumor and legend. The sort of thing where, a year later, the story you're telling at the APM is how you -met- one and he took over your lover's body to lengthen his life span and then killed you and danced you about like a puppet for his enjoyment.

And then I want to hear you say that that's the last you've heard of ANY magicker since.

And leave us wondering.

Yeah, something like this would be great. I don't want to see magick gone entirely neither, personally I think it should be an option given to those who have proven themselves more than trustworthy to play one; kinda like karma except 5x harder to get. And even when gained should be closely monitored by staff. Meaning.... If some Krathi starts twinking a spell so he can finally get "nuclear meltdown" and is observed by an imm, said Krathi's death would be planned out and his magicker privileges taken.

[Twisted Minstrel]

I stopped reading... people are posting faster than I can read and still play the game that I love.

I'm just going to respond to one thing...

Lizzie, you say that being exposed to something constantly means that you'll eventually stop fearing it?  No.  This is not true.  Will being exposed to scalding water make it so that eventually it will not burn?  Have your character think along these lines.  "I saw another of those filthy, disgusting magickers!  Krath, they give me the heebie-jeebies."  Your character shouldn't stop fearing them because of exposure.  They're all people of questionable morals carrying around a tactical nuke in a suitcase, as far as your character is concerned... or at least a machine gun.  Sure, maybe ONE of them can convince you that s/he isn't going to use it on you... but why should your character cease to distrust the rest of them?

And this really isn't  that great an argument because your eyes don't burn like acid every time you see a magicker or see one working his craft.....

[spawnloser]

And this really isn't  that great an argument because your eyes don't burn like acid every time you see a magicker or see one working his craft.....

How does your character know that it won't happen the next time?  Magickers eat babies for fuck's sake!  They look at you and your hair falls out.  If they touch you, you might get a disease!  Just because it didn't happen the last time doesn't mean it won't the next time.

[Dakurus]

And this really isn't  that great an argument because your eyes don't burn like acid every time you see a magicker or see one working his craft.....

How does your character know that it won't happen the next time?  Magickers eat babies for fuck's sake!  They look at you and your hair falls out.  If they touch you, you might get a disease!  Just because it didn't happen the last time doesn't mean it won't the next time.

This is a reasonable point. And I'm sure there are a plethora of analogies that we could come up with. Just remember as a human, elves, half elves, magickers, muls, half giants, none of them are people. Only humans are people.

But just to throw in one analogy, cause it's fun. Have you ever met someone who is deathly afraid of dogs? Complete irrational fear, sometimes based on past experience, sometimes just word of mouth. Even though you can explain how all dogs aren't the same, and what wonderful things they can do, the person just doesn't get it. Through hard work you may get them to a point with a particular dog, but if another dog walks through that door, or a dog makes a wrong move, a snap, a bark, a jump, all bets are off. And the worst is dogs aren't people, just like those nasty elves.

[Twisted Minstrel]

I'm just saying.... The presence of a person who looks and generally acts like everyone else around him.... Compared to hot scalding water.... Besides, my character's had some encounters with gemmers and the like.... I'm pretty sure that's how he'd know your hair won't fall out upon eye-contact.

[Gimfalisette]

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=28018

58 karma gone! We can make 100 today! Let's do this, people!

[bardess]

Ooo! Does this mean there'll be non half-elves for me to talk to in Tuluk?

SQUEE.

QFT.

Elves and half-elves own Tuluk right now.  Like I said, I know of at least five half-elves in the semi-peak hours and two or three elves.  Aside from that I also know of a shitload of southerners in the north, and approximately ten honest to goodness northern humans and four of those are in leadership/semi-leadership roles.

Wtf?

Good luck finding some simple, human-to-human RP.  Although I am definitely glad to see a lot more people hanging around Tuluk, don't get me wrong.

[Lizzie]

Spawnloser lost, again, by saying:

Lizzie, you say that being exposed to something constantly means that you'll eventually stop fearing it? No. This is not true. Will being exposed to scalding water make it so that eventually it will not burn? Have your character think along these lines. "I saw another of those filthy, disgusting magickers! Krath, they give me the heebie-jeebies." Your character shouldn't stop fearing them because of exposure. They're all people of questionable morals carrying around a tactical nuke in a suitcase, as far as your character is concerned... or at least a machine gun. Sure, maybe ONE of them can convince you that s/he isn't going to use it on you... but why should your character cease to distrust the rest of them?

No, I don't say that. If you had read what I wrote, instead of what you wanted to perceive I was intending to say by what I wrote, you would know that.

Will being exposed to scalding water eventually make it not burn? Of course not. BUT - being exposed to lukewarm water, and being told someone could some day turn the heat up and burn you with it, but after 5 years of dipping your feet in the water every single day, and never getting burned, could make you stop being afraid of being burned by it.

Don't tell me what my character should and should not do. You are not the staff, you have no authority to make demands on my roleplay. If you have a problem with the way I RP my character (do you even know who my character is?) , feel free to report it to the staff, and I'm sure I'll hear about it if they agree it's a problem.

[Dresan]

I've said it before, Tuluk needs some love, give it a war or something.  I was finally started playing in Allanak for a bit and it was none stop RP, finally made me wish for the listen skill. Even its spontaneous but regular RP was RPT material to me at least, i'm that RP starved.

Thats another thread altogether though.

/derail

[spawnloser]

I'm just saying.... The presence of a person who looks and generally acts like everyone else around him.... Compared to hot scalding water.... Besides, my character's had some encounters with gemmers and the like.... I'm pretty sure that's how he'd know your hair won't fall out upon eye-contact.

This thought process is part of what's creating the problem that Dakurus' post was about.  How does your character KNOW that the next baby-eating, foul spawn-of-darkness WON'T do to you what the other didn't?

[Marauder Moe]

Sweet Jeebus.  You people are nuts.

*puts down his 10-foot pole*

[Ocotillo]

Look on the bright side. It hasn't yet devolved to 'Your MOM is a baby-eating, foul spawn-of-darkness!'

[Ktavialt]

And this really isn't  that great an argument because your eyes don't burn like acid every time you see a magicker or see one working his craft.....

How does your character know that it won't happen the next time?  Magickers eat babies for fuck's sake!  They look at you and your hair falls out.  If they touch you, you might get a disease!  Just because it didn't happen the last time doesn't mean it won't the next time.

This is a reasonable point. And I'm sure there are a plethora of analogies that we could come up with. Just remember as a human, elves, half elves, magickers, muls, half giants, none of them are people. Only humans are people.

But just to throw in one analogy, cause it's fun. Have you ever met someone who is deathly afraid of dogs? Complete irrational fear, sometimes based on past experience, sometimes just word of mouth. Even though you can explain how all dogs aren't the same, and what wonderful things they can do, the person just doesn't get it. Through hard work you may get them to a point with a particular dog, but if another dog walks through that door, or a dog makes a wrong move, a snap, a bark, a jump, all bets are off. And the worst is dogs aren't people, just like those nasty elves.

I'm sorta worried about the staff saying what I translate into "believe that your character believes this even though there is no rational reason for your character to believe it".  There can be coded ways to make the currently irrational belief to hate magickers very rational, one of which was my suggestion to give magickers the ability to do things incognito.  I got a fair amount of flak for it but I'm not sure if the critics considered that the addition of these "incognito" abilities can be made at a detriment to their more openly "blast blast kill kill" abilities.  Or, on the other hand, side effects harmful to the public could be added to their current abilities.

What if instead of a Vivaduan simply creating water, he would create water, but sometimes to the detriment of water sources around him or her.  Think of the accusations that could fly with that one.  Would you like being a Bynner sitting at the Gaj, while some Vivaduan's spell trumps up in his temple and it saps water from your gourd while you're sitting there drinking an ale?

What if when an Elkrosian does some energy thing, it has a chance to sap the energy of some being nearby.

Now obviously, these are coded changes, and since there is effort to put coding resources onto 2.Arm it may not be done to 1.Arm.  I understand that, so here's at least one minor way in which an elementalist can be more feared simply from Immortal-led RP.  Give elementalists dreams where they acquire greater power (new spell, new innate ability, magickal device) by doing something to the detriment of the public.*  Or another one, create a plotline which pits magickers against the mundane, such as a plotline which will increase the intensity of the sun's force in a certain area, benefiting Krathi magick used there, but of course irritating the hell out of normal people who have to go through that area (requires some small coding to modify spell intensity).

I'm sure most of us presume to be talking about Allanak since in Tuluk a magicker goes boom if he's found out.  We're supposed to hate magickers, however Templars have them on a short leash with the gems, and they use them frequently along with their mundane militiamen.  There is no reason for the Templarate not to.  They are incredibly useful, hell one makes friggan life saving water.

I like the dog analogy, but it doesn't take into account magicker usefulness.  Lets use a different (strange) analogy.  What if it was back in the early 1900's when racism in the South was more rampant than ever?  Some white people would hate black people in order to fit in, others because their grandpappy lost their "property" when they became free sixty years prior, and others for other bullshit reasons.  Anyways, racism abounded.  Now, what if it was shown time and time again that having a black person around you will increase your health and mental aptitude tremendously.  You think that racism would last?  I don't, at the most it might divide people into nice groups, but it wouldn't be a worldwide distrust and hatred.

The fearing of magickers is all bark and no bite, at least within a city.  There's no reason to fear them.  We need reasons which we do not have.  At this point, they are too useful to the city of Allanak, and generally to anyone who befriends them.  As for rogue mages, their biggest enemies are the City and its Templarate, and Templars aren't exactly the loveable scamps you only wished you could save as a mundane.

- Ktavialt

* the natural reaction I'd expect from this is "Oh god you're going to give them even more power!".  The gain should match the risk involved.

[Ktavialt]

Spawnloser lost, again, by saying:

Lizzie, you say that being exposed to something constantly means that you'll eventually stop fearing it? No. This is not true. Will being exposed to scalding water make it so that eventually it will not burn? Have your character think along these lines. "I saw another of those filthy, disgusting magickers! Krath, they give me the heebie-jeebies." Your character shouldn't stop fearing them because of exposure. They're all people of questionable morals carrying around a tactical nuke in a suitcase, as far as your character is concerned... or at least a machine gun. Sure, maybe ONE of them can convince you that s/he isn't going to use it on you... but why should your character cease to distrust the rest of them?

No, I don't say that. If you had read what I wrote, instead of what you wanted to perceive I was intending to say by what I wrote, you would know that.

Will being exposed to scalding water eventually make it not burn? Of course not. BUT - being exposed to lukewarm water, and being told someone could some day turn the heat up and burn you with it, but after 5 years of dipping your feet in the water every single day, and never getting burned, could make you stop being afraid of being burned by it.

Don't tell me what my character should and should not do. You are not the staff, you have no authority to make demands on my roleplay. If you have a problem with the way I RP my character (do you even know who my character is?) , feel free to report it to the staff, and I'm sure I'll hear about it if they agree it's a problem.

I completely agree with Lizzie here, there's a whole lot of completely unrelated analogies.  The difference is scalding water -actually does- hurt you.  Magickers don't, they actually are beneficial.

I also intend to RP my character in the way he would naturally react to the environment around him.  He hears from one ear during his childhood all about how nasty magickers are, except there's no real reports throughout his life that these magickers are actually baby eaters.  Not only that, he joins the militia, and what the hell is happening, but the templarate uses them to help protect the city from nasty northerners, oh and I wonder who supplies the water.  THOSE FOUL BEINGS!

All bark, no bite.

- Ktavialt

[Twisted Minstrel]

(Edited because I just realized that my post made no sense in relation to what was being quoted)

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Well, crap. Now when I continue to play magickers (and I'm going to), people are going to look at me OOC and say: "There's an evil powergamer that hates Armageddon and isn't willing to sacrifice his karma for the good of the community."
Lame.
But I do respect those who gave it up. It's the old "be the change you want to be in the world" in the extreme. So good for you guys.
And when and if my current special-role magicker dies, and when and if the magicker I stored temporarily to play the special role-magicker dies, I promise to play at least five mundanes before picking up another magicker.
Because I love magickers, but I love plots and interaction more.

[spawnloser]

Spawnloser lost, again, by saying:

Lizzie, you say that being exposed to something constantly means that you'll eventually stop fearing it? No. This is not true. Will being exposed to scalding water make it so that eventually it will not burn? Have your character think along these lines. "I saw another of those filthy, disgusting magickers! Krath, they give me the heebie-jeebies." Your character shouldn't stop fearing them because of exposure. They're all people of questionable morals carrying around a tactical nuke in a suitcase, as far as your character is concerned... or at least a machine gun. Sure, maybe ONE of them can convince you that s/he isn't going to use it on you... but why should your character cease to distrust the rest of them?

No, I don't say that. If you had read what I wrote, instead of what you wanted to perceive I was intending to say by what I wrote, you would know that.

Will being exposed to scalding water eventually make it not burn? Of course not. BUT - being exposed to lukewarm water, and being told someone could some day turn the heat up and burn you with it, but after 5 years of dipping your feet in the water every single day, and never getting burned, could make you stop being afraid of being burned by it.

Don't tell me what my character should and should not do. You are not the staff, you have no authority to make demands on my roleplay. If you have a problem with the way I RP my character (do you even know who my character is?) , feel free to report it to the staff, and I'm sure I'll hear about it if they agree it's a problem.

I lost?  That's cute.  Let's play this game further.  You lost by saying that I told you how to play your character, which I didn't.  I instead said that the documentation says your character should fear magickers, just like Dakurus reminded us all of.  I'm saying that simple exposure to lukewarm water now with the potential of it being turned up later, as you said, is no more valid an analogy as mine.  Our character are taught that magickers are boiling water from a young age.  Just because you came across some lukewarm water later doesn't mean that all magickers are lukewarm water.  They're all boiling water.  Remember it.

And Twisted Minstrel, your character DOESN'T know that magickers are beneficial and doesn't know if there is a horrible price down the road for those benefits.

[Twilight]

Hopefully this means you all will stop app'ing templars too.

So I can finally get one.  

[Twisted Minstrel]

And Twisted Minstrel, your character DOESN'T know that magickers are beneficial and doesn't know if there is a horrible price down the road for those benefits.

Just like YOU don't know what MY character does and doesn't know?

[Reiloth]

Spawnloser lost, again, by saying:

Lizzie, you say that being exposed to something constantly means that you'll eventually stop fearing it? No. This is not true. Will being exposed to scalding water make it so that eventually it will not burn? Have your character think along these lines. "I saw another of those filthy, disgusting magickers! Krath, they give me the heebie-jeebies." Your character shouldn't stop fearing them because of exposure. They're all people of questionable morals carrying around a tactical nuke in a suitcase, as far as your character is concerned... or at least a machine gun. Sure, maybe ONE of them can convince you that s/he isn't going to use it on you... but why should your character cease to distrust the rest of them?

No, I don't say that. If you had read what I wrote, instead of what you wanted to perceive I was intending to say by what I wrote, you would know that.

Will being exposed to scalding water eventually make it not burn? Of course not. BUT - being exposed to lukewarm water, and being told someone could some day turn the heat up and burn you with it, but after 5 years of dipping your feet in the water every single day, and never getting burned, could make you stop being afraid of being burned by it.

Don't tell me what my character should and should not do. You are not the staff, you have no authority to make demands on my roleplay. If you have a problem with the way I RP my character (do you even know who my character is?) , feel free to report it to the staff, and I'm sure I'll hear about it if they agree it's a problem.

I lost?  That's cute.  Let's play this game further.  You lost by saying that I told you how to play your character, which I didn't.  I instead said that the documentation says your character should fear magickers, just like Dakurus reminded us all of.  I'm saying that simple exposure to lukewarm water now with the potential of it being turned up later, as you said, is no more valid an analogy as mine.  Our character are taught that magickers are boiling water from a young age.  Just because you came across some lukewarm water later doesn't mean that all magickers are lukewarm water.  They're all boiling water.  Remember it.

And Twisted Minstrel, your character DOESN'T know that magickers are beneficial and doesn't know if there is a horrible price down the road for those benefits.

While I agree that Magickers should always be feared, even between Magickers and Magickers, and ESPECIALLY between magickers and Nilazi, and Magickers and Sorcerors, and Magickers and Mindbenders, and etc, I agree with Twisted Minstrel in saying you do not know what his character feels or does not feel.

In general, I believe spawnloser is correct. Within the dog analogy, you should not, even after becoming comfortable with one dog and slightly overcoming your fear of dogs just -slightly-, be cool with that second dog that just walked through the door. You don't know where he's been. He might have rabies. Shit, he might have four more dogs coming with him.

Also, this topic, I believe, is officially, defunct.