re: hard hits can 'daze' you

[Seeker]

Yeah, I thought about mages taking it in the nuts with this new code addition.  After pondering, I believe its a damn good thing.


Seeker

[a non e mouse]

...Being dazed in combat lasts a very, very short time.  You don't get your next swing.  And then that's it, the effects have passed.

In response to some of the code change naysayers

Haven't tested it yet but if it works as described, I see nothing wrong with it. Keep in mind, imagine you're fightimg some big fuckoff-size animal and it bites your hand, you will sure as hell miss your last swing. You might even be missing your hand. You're fighting a dude and he drops a bigass hammer on your toe, you'd probably have trouble connecting with a swing you were about to make at that time.

For sparring: Someone gets a solid hit to your body with a spear, wouldn't you emote staggering back a couple steps? I usually do. Now it's coded, too.

Even for those of you worried about getting dazed repeatedly, I'm for that too. If I'm putting a spear through your shoulder repeatedly, you probably wouldn't be able to hit me with a single blow.


I can't wait to see it in action.

[Hymwen]

I'm not at all worried about the missing your next attack part. It's the delay that bothers me. I haven't tested it so I can't speak in facts, but if it works like it looks to me, any decent fighter will be able to walk up to pretty much anyone who isn't armed, attack them, and have a good chance of keeping them in a "delay lock" until they die.

If that is how it works, I don't like it at all. I would have no problem if it delayed your combat skills and other things such as spells, but not being able to flee or draw your weapons doesn't seem right to me.

[Ghost]

I love the daze code.  I have not tested it yet, but the idea that a hard blow can put you some delay is realistic, and I don't think it hurts playability at all.

I LOVE IT!  Thanks!  I hope it gets updated for special attacks/spells in time.

[Dalmeth]

I'm not at all worried about the missing your next attack part. It's the delay that bothers me. I haven't tested it so I can't speak in facts, but if it works like it looks to me, any decent fighter will be able to walk up to pretty much anyone who isn't armed, attack them, and have a good chance of keeping them in a "delay lock" until they die.

Generally, attacks aren't so quick as to make a permanent dazed state, but the character I'm playing isn't exactly the most agile.

Either way, my primary concern is just how easy it is to daze some of the NPCs at lower health levels.  That's just awful, but I suppose it would be good for some parties of PCs taking down large creatures.

[a non e mouse]

Now that I've had a chance to see it work, I still like it. I highly doubt that daze-locking is going to be a big problem. Make no mistake, the new code does polarize the game quite a bit- making strong fighters stronger and weak fighters weaker, but why the hell not? Weaklings will have more trouble fleeing, but if an experienced killing machine comes at you when you're not armed and gets a very strong attack off, you would have trouble getting away. his can encourage hiring guards, keeping If you're a weak fighter, there are still things you can do to protect yourself like- hire guards, find a hiding place, keep to lawful areas.

I really like the idea of polarizing the game like this, it's not really going to change the way people play their characters in the long run. however, it needs to be applied to special attacks and magick ASAP to complete the transition.

[Kelamson]

It's a new way to kill us. I love it.  :twisted:

More seriously, from what I have seen and read it's only a chance of stun, not a surety of stun, even on a real good blow. Also I've seen some fairly solid hits in sparring without a single stun, because of course we all spar with the right weapons.... right?

I like the change, and look forwards to it being introduced for spells and other attacks. And tweaked to affect those silly southerners more often! Kudos to the coder(s).

[Quirk]

The fear of getting perma-dazed by a large creature like a mekillot possibly isn't as large a worry as some people are thinking - larger creatures tend to be a little slower, and if you'd have got two swings in before they'd get their next, you've got your window to escape even if dazed, surely?

However, I still want to echo what was said earlier about seeing diagonally - when you're on an open plain, you're not going to voluntarily go looking for a mekillot, and as they're quite large, you should perhaps be able to see them before blundering into close proximity to them. If big creatures are to become even deadlier, I'd like the defences against becoming their snack to have more to do with a player/character navigating carefully and less to do with the player's reflexes/typing accuracy/lag of the player's connection.

[Halaster]

but if it works like it looks to me, any decent fighter will be able to walk up to pretty much anyone who isn't armed, attack them, and have a good chance of keeping them in a "delay lock" until they die.

Nah, you're overestimating it a little.  It has to be a really hard hit to get dazed.

[Beux]

However, I still want to echo what was said earlier about seeing diagonally - when you're on an open plain, you're not going to voluntarily go looking for a mekillot, and as they're quite large, you should perhaps be able to see them before blundering into close proximity to them. If big creatures are to become even deadlier, I'd like the defences against becoming their snack to have more to do with a player/character navigating carefully and less to do with the player's reflexes/typing accuracy/lag of the player's connection.

Wow, yeh. I think being able to see diagonally is actually quite important. It doesn't make sense that you can see in front of you, and to the right of you...but not whats between the two.

Could some sort of 'look nw' command be coded so that it shows the room that is 'north and then west'? As I know diagonals aren't used in Arm...

[Forty Winks]

[derail]While off topic, just thought I'd toss in my thought. How should you be able to look in a direction and not be able to travel in that direction? Also, it shouldn't make any difference at all whether you see a bahamet to the nw or it being nw of your location, as the bahamet would be able to see you at the same time if you were able to see it. I don't think it would be fair to just be able to see the huge thing and run away, without allowing the huge thing to see you and come after you. It would be exactly the same if you went west and saw the bahamet to the north, with being able to look(travel) diagonally and seeing a bahamet diagonally. And if you were able to travel diagonally, that still wouldn't solve being able to see huge objects nnw or your location, as if you travel diagonally, you'll still be jumped by the huge thing from the north in the new room anyways.

...I think I'm just repeating myself now... :oops:

So, basically, the current system of the four primary cardinal directions works well as it is.[/derail]

Tested the daze code out abit...looks like it affects combat quite abit.

[Morgenes]

Please move the non-cardinal direction looking/movement to another thread if you wish to discuss it and stop derailing this thread.

[Quirk]

Text of post moved to new topic.

[Dresan]

I love it. I'd love to see kick, bash (less so) and esppecially charge have a better chance of dazing someone since particular kick is a bit weak (due to delay) and dangerous to use and charge is sometimes suicide even if your good with it. The delay gives the other person enough time to stand (though i think a delay has been added now not sure) hit you hard on the head a couple times or flee before your delay runs out.

Think all i'd like to see now is the chances of being hit or being hit hard rises and (or) your chances of hitting or hitting decrease as you get tired and stamina drain during combat. Of course some bonuses for Delves in that respect. Also an increase in overall defence across the classes so that combat has a bit more strategic element other then omgwtfpawnage we are used to seeing.

[Twilight]

I had to reread the initial post to confirm my initial understanding.  I think perhaps my understanding of chance of being dazed must differ from staff's.  I guess I expected going beyond normal hits into the realm of actual hard hits (those with the bad sounding names like brutally and unspeakable) would still yield only a chance of being dazed, rather than a near certainty.

I'd like to know what the other players think chance means in % terms?  I'm sure to some of us, we might expect this to mean 35% tops, while others are expecting 95%.

I think I'd like it if it was truly a chance, like not more than 50%, ever, under any circumstances.

[jstorrie]

I dazed the crap out of a skeet last night and I can say from my own experimentation that the chance of being dazed when you're in good condition is relatively low. You have to take a very significant hit to be dazed at that point. If the target is wounded, however, the chance of being dazed seems to go up exponentially. If you're really beating the shit out of someone, your last few hits before they die will probably each daze them as their defense completely collapses.

[Fragmented]

Personally I love it. It even combats that crappy scenario where you attack a person, they flee, and you sit for 10 seconds waiting for command lag to end so you can chase their ass. At least now, a buff person/experienced fighter has at least a chance of keeping their ass right there until they die, or at least until the kill command lag wears off if you get a really nice opening shot.

[Cyrian20]

I have looked over this and think it is a little violent. Lets look at some basic things.

1. Npcs pretty much don't flee and until we get an a.i. upgrade (being worked on I know) Reeling blows are basically a pk tool.

2. Warriors have bash for that exact reason, it is what gives them a use later in the game since almost any other class can outplay them later.

3. Fight a Rantarri or Braxat... and no not you d elf maxxed agi warriors.

I like the concept but I would like to see the 'reeling' a little less often, make people still want that warrior in their group to prevent people from getting away. I remember when the thug sub class first came out my one hour ranger could insta ko scrab without fail each and everytime. They tweaked it in time, and I hope they do it again to the 'dazed' hits.

[Fnord]

Having tested this out with different beasties, it's definately much more dangerous. The "daze lock" effect is actually quite easy to achieve, as anything that can hit hard enough to daze will only have a better chance to do so with each consecutive blow. Creatures that can bash and dish out heavy damage will certainly be properly feared now.

While this will encourage groups (guarding, rescuing, etc.), solo hunters beware. It's a brave new world.

[flurry]

I'm not exactly sure what you can or can't do while dazed, but after some (very limited) exposure to this, it does make me wonder about the possibility of being "daze-locked".

I don't mind so much if it makes some creatures more dangerous, but I'm wondering how it might affect sparring.

[Dalmeth]

There's a lot of talk about maxed agi increasing dodging in combat, but it doesn't mention that in the help file, so I don't know if that is the case.  However, what the maxed agi does allow is an easy daze lock.  I've seen elves on the attack and they get somewhere awfully close to one attack a second.  That's pretty insane with this new feature.

On the other hand, they are probably easier to daze themselves.

[jstorrie]

Because you generally only get dazed when you take a lot of hp or stun damage - like, a lot, a significant fraction of your current hp or stun totals, seems like - if you're sparring someone of your relatively skill level you won't get 'stunlocked.' If you're sparring someone who can kill you in three chops, well, you might be so overwhelmed that you can't hit back, but they can just disengage, now.

However - and this is an important point - your probability of being dazed goes way up when you're wounded or partially dizzied. Players who are used to sparring themselves down to 10hp each (ie, twinks) will find that the new daze code makes that very inconvenient and exceedingly dangerous, I think.

[Hymwen]

There's a lot of talk about maxed agi increasing dodging in combat, but it doesn't mention that in the help file, so I don't know if that is the case.  However, what the maxed agi does allow is an easy daze lock.  I've seen elves on the attack and they get somewhere awfully close to one attack a second.  That's pretty insane with this new feature.

On the other hand, they are probably easier to daze themselves.

Elves tend to not hit very hard, so I think it evens out.

[daedroug]

I might have posted this already and just forgot about it but in any case I'm posting my opinion:

It seems to me that the dazed code is doing little if any to extend the game, after less then a week I've heard of at least one person dieing from daze lock every day since it's been put into practice. Basicly the idea behind this is that if you deal hard hit to some one they'll be reeling. So basicly after getting the upper hand after doing a massive amount of damage this will now give that person even more of a chance to to take the lead. Shouldn't doing a hard hit like that be it's own reward? I just don't see why anyone or thing needs any more reward from a hard hit other then the massive amount of damage they do.

On top of that I see a few people loving this code because it makes HG more dangerous, but i have to ask "where half-giants not dangerous enough?" I mean after a bit of time they can kill you with one bash and yet you now want to make them even harder to kill? The same goes for other hard hitting creatures such as bahamets and the like. All it seems to do is make creatures, NPCs, and PCs that are already unbelievably deadly (HG, bahamets, anakore) even more deadly to the point of being rediculous

[jmordetsky]

I'm really torn up about daze.

On one hand, I dazed someone and I was like "DAMN! SW33T I D4Z3D J000 B10thc!"

I'm also not playing an HG.

However, I have seen first hand during a sparring match how dangerous this is. I was hit *hard* and dazed and had it not been a sparring match I would have been very, very dead.

Sooooo....I don't know. I don't love it, but I don't hate it.