The Elementalist Quarters - Present and Future

[Forty Winks]

Thought I would start a thread focused on how the elementalist quarters in Allanak is doing currently, from both players and staff perspectives, and what you would like to happen in the elementalist quarters. Also, as it seems it is a large part of this topic, what other options can be made available to gemmed magickers that may make the experience better than what it is now, or has previously been.

[jcarter]

Things are fine as is. Maybe, MAYBE make a gemmed bar, but that then basically takes away from gemmed interaction with the mundane PC group. After all, what reason does a gemmer have to go hang out in the Gaj when he could go meet up with his buddies at the elementalist bar?

People are blowing a lot of issues out of proportion, and honestly, they're not that big of a deal. Yeah, I had a character get hit by one of those one-hit-you're-out spells from a magicker, and hey, that's life. Suck it up and move on.

[Xygax]

Things are fine as is. Maybe, MAYBE make a gemmed bar, but that then basically takes away from gemmed interaction with the mundane PC group. After all, what reason does a gemmer have to go hang out in the Gaj when he could go meet up with his buddies at the elementalist bar?

I'm not sure this is a bad thing; mages should be segregated, at least to some degree.

-- X

[EvilRoeSlade]

Things are fine as is. Maybe, MAYBE make a gemmed bar, but that then basically takes away from gemmed interaction with the mundane PC group.

What gemmed interaction with the mundane PC group?  I certainly haven't ever seen any.

[jcarter]

I'm not sure this is a bad thing; mages should be segregated, at least to some degree.

Segregated is how things are now. Putting in a tavern is just pretty much going to put an invisible wall up between the elementalist quarter and the rest of the city.

Things are fine as is. Maybe, MAYBE make a gemmed bar, but that then basically takes away from gemmed interaction with the mundane PC group.

What gemmed interaction with the mundane PC group?  I certainly haven't ever seen any.

Join the Allanaki side of the war.

[Xygax]

Segregated is how things are now. Putting in a tavern is just pretty much going to put an invisible wall up between the elementalist quarter and the rest of the city.

Yes.  And?  Again, I fail to see how this is a bad thing.  If the players are going here voluntarily, then they are doing so because they enjoy it (or enjoy it more than the harassment of being in the other taverns), which is a good thing.

-- X

[jcarter]

Segregated is how things are now. Putting in a tavern is just pretty much going to put an invisible wall up between the elementalist quarter and the rest of the city.

Yes.  And?  Again, I fail to see how this is a bad thing.  If the players are going here voluntarily, then they are doing so because they enjoy it (or enjoy it more than the harassment of being in the other taverns), which is a good thing.

-- X

How is it a good thing?

[Kennath]

Segregated is how things are now. Putting in a tavern is just pretty much going to put an invisible wall up between the elementalist quarter and the rest of the city.

Yes.  And?  Again, I fail to see how this is a bad thing.  If the players are going here voluntarily, then they are doing so because they enjoy it (or enjoy it more than the harassment of being in the other taverns), which is a good thing.

-- X

How is it a good thing?

Commoners and magickers are supposed to be seperate, thats why they have their own quarter of the city. It's designed for them to stay away from the public. And mentioned on prior and still occuring threads magick should not be a regular thing for mundane PCs. But -if- a magicker -wanted- to go to the gaj to hang out with you, they could.

-Ken

[Forty Winks]

Taken from a different thread, quoted from a guest.

The balance of armageddon wasn't in the classes itself but that fact that were few PC magickers running around so every second person you met didn't automatically have the ability to kill you or force you to RP fear. Thats changing or could very likely change. More people seem to be playing magickers and guess what now they want to be able to RP in more places with them.

As more people play magickers, and the number of magickers in the PC population rise, what kind of changes will have to take place to keep the 'balance of armageddon' as you say.

For one, making the elementalist quarters a small city in itself may help address this problem, yet, as it is still apart of the game and the rest of the world, the magickers within the quarters will have to interact with mundanes eventually. If and when the elementalist quarters is improved, the influence of gemmed magickers will eventaully spill outside the quarters and affect mundanes. When this occurs, what kind of changes can take place to address this problem, without having to limit or take away from anything?

[edited to add] This is, of course, assuming that the elementalist quarters and the culture of the gemmed elementalists gets adjusted so that it is more appealing to players. Discussing and coming up with ways to address a supposed surplus in gemmed elementalists may be a step to doing this. More solutions and options available to gemmed magickers can only make the gemmed experience more pleasant.

[Ghost]

A quiet tavern will be a step in the right direction.  The tavern will improve the gemmed to gemmed interaction, as well as, if there is anything needed from magickers, you will know where you can find them.

(Too late here.  Hopefully in the morning, I will have time to post more ideas if I can)

[ale six]

Give elementalists more opportunities to gather in groups, more opportunities for employment beyond just Oash. I wrote a long post on this somewhere else, but mainly the idea was to introduce more politics and things into the elementalist quarter, and give mages some ways to gather among themselves, either by making the mage temples into mini-clans or finding some other way to group mages together (maybe gatherings of mages with similar philosophies across different temples).

You could even make a "clan" for elementalists similar to Poet's Circle... a loose collective of people with a common cause (the welfare of mages) split up into separate sects (temples), each of which might have its own rules, elected officials, and culture.

I like the idea that the templarate would trust the mages to effectively self-govern themselves, with each temple keeping its members in line and running things on their own without needing templars to babysit. This way, when a templar needs some mages for whatever mission, he can go to the leader of whichever temple, who will look through the ranks of mages and find a few to send into service.


I don't know, obviously this is all a very rough idea, but I think more organisation in the elemental quarter would open up lots more options.

[Angela Christine]

OMGOMGOMG!!!   I was just looking something up, and realized that THERE IS NO ELEMENTALIST'S QUARTER in Alllanak!  This changes everything!

http://www.armageddon.org/intro/allanak.html

The city itself is divided into six main "quarters" -- The Middle Quarter, the Commoners' Quarter, the Merchants' Quarter, the Nobles' Quarter, the Templars' Quarter, and the Labyrinth. The Middle Quarter contains the bulk of the city -- the elemental temples, the main gate, the Arena, the library, and His Gloriousness Highlord Tektolnes' Holy Temple. The Merchants' Quarter, which will be described in more depth later, contains a large bazaar and various merchant estates within. The Labyrinth is a crumbling network of alleys in the northern end of the city, originally a new merchant district, but has since been abandoned and turned into a haven for the city's thieves and smugglers. The Templars' and Nobles' Quarters, located on the south and east sides of the city, respectively, each contain residences of the city's rulers. Lastly, the Commoners' Quarter contains houses belonging to the city's common people.

The temples are merely contained within the Middle Quarter.  There is no Elementalist's Quarter.  There never was.   :shock:



Angela Christine

[Yokunama]

Thought I would start a thread focused on how the elementalist quarters in Allanak is doing currently, from both players and staff perspectives, and what you would like to happen in the elementalist quarters. Also, as it seems it is a large part of this topic, what other options can be made available to gemmed magickers that may make the experience better than what it is now, or has previously been.

I was once in the middle of getting a tavern built in the quarter, sadly the PC died before anything got off the ground.

[Delirium]

Reposted from other thread:

Yeah, ideally there should be more things for players of mages to do that don't so much involve interaction with non-mages.

-- X

X - some ideas for self-sustainability off the top of my head:

:arrow:  NPCs that will buy things created by mages (vivaduans, rukkians, a certain Krathi spell that branches fairly early).  If component craftables are sellable to NPCs in the Quarter - great, if not, need that too.

A food shop, a water shop (both tied in with previous idea).  

A stone shop (near the Rukkian temple of course!), some more "mundane" clothing merchants, shops to give PC mages the supplies they might need for their subguilds, as well as places to sell the things they create.

A few more tables and someone that sells drinks at that shady area in the plaza.  Having that spot in the plaza be quittable would be a plus but not as necessary.

A rumorboard specific for the elementalist's quarter.


:arrow:  Ideas to boost PC interaction:

The rumorboard would go a long way, as would a place easier to congregate in (i.e. more tables and such at that plaza).  

The rumorboard could have a "what you know" for each temple - notable personas, general relationships between the temples, guidelines, etc.

Immortals could give a little boost to the area by delegating someone to help oversee the Quarter and run some plots - for a totally cliche example perhaps a few Krathi students are persuing some arcane goal and the Drovian temple is out to sabotage them because their success would rupture a delicate experiment of the shadow mages.  Success/Failure of either could depend on some PC efforts and actions.

Stuff that gives gemmed something to strive for, a culture to feel a part of, a base to work off of rather than a mostly empty temple, some NPCs, and a plaza that looks really neat but is rarely visited by other PCs.  Things to keep them entertained, feeling useful, give them the ability to make a living with both mage or mundane abilities without having to greb salt, mine obsidian, or venture much into the "mundane" city.

The occasional mage might still wander out - those who want employment with Oash, those who want to try their luck out the gates, those who need a certain component and have to hire a hunter to go find it.  However, self-sustained would mean far more self-contained.

***

That said:  I don't really want to see gemmed mages turn into another iso-clan.

[Lavalamps (Not logged in)]

Even though I posted earlier that this might dilute the population, I've reconsidered and I think these ideas will be good. The magicker quarter is  a place for magickers, for them to live... and the code should reflect that.
A tavern, shops, food/water sellers... keep it pretty small, but make it so that it can sustain PCs comfortably.
Also, dunno if this is good or not... but a gate into the quarter that only people with gems can go in and out of?

[Yokunama]

A stone shop (near the Rukkian temple of course!), some more "mundane" clothing merchants, shops to give PC mages the supplies they might need for their subguilds, as well as places to sell the things they create.

Whats wrong with the shops everyone else use?
The best suppliers and buyers come from the PC population. Even with a gemmed magicker, I once had a character that managed to obtain a great sum of money, marketing merchandise off to the mundane. The character only sold a handful of items to the NPC merchants. If you are good enough, you can manage to obtain some business relationships with some of the houses. :twisted:

I wish there were more 'common uses' for magickers, instead of having them locked away in their temples casting all day. Surely, the templars and nobles could have some uses for them, instead of killing them off.

[Intrepid]

Yes.  And?  Again, I fail to see how this is a bad thing.  If the players are going here voluntarily, then they are doing so because they enjoy it (or enjoy it more than the harassment of being in the other taverns), which is a good thing.

I do see it as a bad thing.  A very bad thing, actually.  If you can look at any setting in this entire game and realize that most of the interaction might as well be on its own server, then that group has failed to become part of the larger game or, worse has been pushed into a compartment by the rest of the playerbase.

Blackwing and Tan Muark were considered legendary, but I must say from personal experience, the very few interactions I had with them back when those clans were considered iso were lackluster--despite the fact that these were supposed to be the paragons of rp.  They sought nothing and gained little to nothing from the rest of the Known World, and you need interaction to have intrigue.  Anything else is a waste of presence that could be better utilized as characters that are part of the rest of the game setting.

Out of sight, out of mind, basically.

[spawnloser]

I wouldn't mind seeing something like this.  In recent past, I've seen a few gemmed mages go rogue, and this would give them something to do beyond that.  It would give them a social group, which is the bigger thing to keeping mages doing what they do without having to do it aggressively to every passerby on their spot of the road or what have you.

On the note of magickers getting work from others?  I don't get it.  I seem to recall Tor hiring some battlemages at one time...when I played a Salarri, I was told that Salarr hires magickers.  They don't, though, not in practice.  Hell, I tried when playing a rukkian once...the Tors acted like magick-hating Borsail and the Salarri just kinda brushed me off.

I dunno, I think this would cut down on the bitching people make about all the rogue magickers and how the game is ruined because there's so much magick.  This would give the magickers something to (voluntarily) do that would involve not going the way of the rogue.

Editted to add: Interaction doesn't have to mean as a group, though.  You can have interaction because that one rogue is out there...but you know where to find magickers in the Elementalist Quarter now, because you can timidly scamper your ass into the bar there and ask for help from these other loyal citizens of Nak to remove a rogue (and some may be happy to do that, because rogues give the rest of them a bad name).

[Malken]

I just don't like the fact that we're just trying to add small "ISO clans" everywhere.. There's already plenty of them so far, and instead of trying to separate groups of players from the main one, I think we should try and find ways to allow them to participate with the other players without changing too much the "feeling" of Armageddon.

[Anonymous kank with wings]

Commoners and magickers are supposed to be seperate, thats why they have their own quarter of the city. It's designed for them to stay away from the public. And mentioned on prior and still occuring threads magick should not be a regular thing for mundane PCs. But -if- a magicker -wanted- to go to the gaj to hang out with you, they could.

-Ken

Why not just create MagickerMud, consisting of the Elementalist's Quarter, and run it separately from Armaggedon. It sounds like this would fit what you want perfectly.

[Anonymous kank with wings]

Ok, bad choice of quotes. I'd erase the above message but anonymous kanks can't do that, even if they have wings.  :oops:

[ale six]

Maybe anonymous kanks with wingses should make themselves accounts!

/derail

[ThirdEye]

I was once in the middle of getting a tavern built in the quarter, sadly the PC died before anything got off the ground.

Me too.

[Cuusardo]

Think of it from the point of view of the people who run Allanak:

We already let those gemmed fucks live here, AND gave them their own part of the city.  Why the hell should we give them anything else?  We don't owe them anything; they owe US simply for letting them live.

[Forty Winks]

I just don't like the fact that we're just trying to add small "ISO clans" everywhere.. There's already plenty of them so far, and instead of trying to separate groups of players from the main one, I think we should try and find ways to allow them to participate with the other players without changing too much the "feeling" of Armageddon.

The purpose for the elementalist quarters was to keep magickers seperate from the common populace, which is both NPC and PC. By making the elementalist quarters a more popular idea for elementalist players will allow them to both have interaction with other players, and not be in places that would be considered rare for magickers to be. (such as the wilds  :roll: ). It solves two problems at once, without having to restrict karma or any such thing. Of course, this would only apply if the elementalist quarter and its culture sees some improvement, as was the purpose of this thread. As there is enough criticism available already, please offer more constructive feedback, otherwise start a different thread.