Engaging in IC romance based on player gender

[Gimfalisette]

I just had a realization about something that happened to my character, and thought I would bring it here for some interesting discussion. Note: I'm not trying to correct anyone in particular. I just think this is an issue to be aware of generally. And I'm not saying that OOC info absolutely did influence IC decisions, I just think that it probably did.

My character is female. I am female in RL. I do not tell people in game that I am female in RL, because that is totally OOC. (I very very rarely communicate OOCly at all--I don't correct mistakes, I don't LOL, I just don't do OOC unless I absolutely have to.) I don't talk to people on IM or in IRC either. So generally speaking, there is no way for anyone to know that the player of my character is female.

Many female characters are played by male players. My guess would be about half. Most male characters are probably played by male players, although there will be a portion played by females. (These assumptions are based on research in other online games.) So, male players playing male characters likely know that the comely wench they are eyeing in the tavern has a 50% chance of being played by another guy.

Despite my character being very attractive socially and physically, there has been a definite lack of aggressive pursuit from male characters which, honestly, doesn't seem realistic at all. There has been a lot of flirting and suggesting, but not even much leaning toward anything more. Typical attitudes of male characters toward love/sex seem to fall into the "my work keeps me too busy" or "I'm a desert ranger loner" or "I prefer whores" buckets. Note: If that is IC for your character, -fine-. Go ahead and stick with that, that's good.

However.

Recently there was a situation in which I was forced by game code issues to talk OOC briefly for resolution (and by forced I mean there was a mechanics issue that was totally OOC), when some of the male characters who should ICly be interested in my character were present. When talking OOC, I am my "self" and I probably came across as feminine unwittingly. (Although IMO admitting lack of knowledge of code, plus being a good RPer, plus using a smiley in OOC should not insta-equal female player, it probably does.)

The next day, my character hooked up with one of the male characters who was present when I had to go OOC. Do I know for certain that this happened because of OOC knowledge? No. However, the suspicion is definitely there in my mind.

So, down to the point: If your character would ICly fall in love / have sex with that other character, then do it. If your character would not ICly do those things, then don't do them. But please don't change what your character would/will do based on OOC knowledge or assumptions about the player's gender.

When I made my character, I decided ahead of time what kind of characters she would be attracted to, and thus far the two she's liked have fallen into that definition. And there are a bunch more that she could potentially like, and none of this is based on OOC anything. If I found out that there was a female player behind any of those characters, I would just think, "Nifty, good job on her for playing such a convincing guy" and move on with whatever happened ICly. (In fact, in previous RP elsewhere I have played a male character that was ICly in love with a female character who was probably played by a female. RL gender should not matter ICly.)

Comments? Experiences? Thanks for reading this far.

[Malifaxis]

My character is female. I am female in RL. I do not tell people in game that I am female in RL, because that is totally OOC. (I very very rarely communicate OOCly at all--I don't correct mistakes, I don't LOL, I just don't do OOC unless I absolutely have to.) I don't talk to people on IM or in IRC either. So generally speaking, there is no way for anyone to know that the player of my character is female.

I don't know if you know this, but this board is public.  You just told us.  Just an FYI.

Just trying to help.

[Gimfalisette]

I don't know if you know this, but this board is public.  You just told us.  Just an FYI.

Just trying to help.

Yeah, I really did know that. But thank you. It would be kind of pointless to talk about RL versus IC gender and continue to try to hide mine. However, I'm fairly certain that there is no way of linking my GDB personality to who my character actually is, since I'm pretty careful about that. My purpose in not revealing my gender in game or talking via means other than the GDB is that I do not want who I am in RL to influence what happens to my character in game; it's not that I care about people just knowing my RL gender, because I don't.

[moab]

I am a male player that plays about 50% male and 50% female characters.  I've had my female characters sought after (when I played the Fme type) and both as male and female tend to RP the same (tend to ftb with the exception of player shaleah who took me to a whole 'nother level and we STILL ftb eventually...but that's a whole other conversation).

I will (and have) tell players who try ooc guess my sex that I'm female if I'm playing a female character.  The reason being?  If someone is so far outside of the "IC mindset" that they are worried about my gender, they don't deserve the truth - and probably couldn't handle it anyway.

Just play the character, you know?

Btw - I've also had player who knew my OOC gender play with my female characters completely realistically.  And to them, hats off.

It's about the story, not about the author.

[jhunter]

Despite my character being very attractive socially and physically, there has been a definite lack of aggressive pursuit from male characters which, honestly, doesn't seem realistic at all.

This is Zalanthas, not the real world. Why doesn't your pc be more aggressive and pursue those they have interest in?

[moab]

I think I would add that it doesn't seem (to me anyway) that people really focus on the "sexual" side (dating, doing it, etc) as much as the intimate, relationship side of relationships in the game.

Sure, some people do, but most of us are here for larger plots and the other stuff adds spice, but it  is not good if there is too much of it.

[Gimfalisette]

This is Zalanthas, not the real world. Why doesn't your pc be more aggressive and pursue those they have interest in?

She does pursue those she is ICly interested in, based on the personality I have given her. She's quite Zalanthan and appropriate to her environment, modified by personality, interests, age, and experience.

But like I said, if I found out that the player of one of the characters she likes is female? Cool, good job. It wouldn't change how my character feels ICly at all.

[Gimfalisette]

I think I would add that it doesn't seem (to me anyway) that people really focus on the "sexual" side (dating, doing it, etc) as much as the intimate, relationship side of relationships in the game.

Sure, some people do, but most of us are here for larger plots and the other stuff adds spice, but it  is not good if there is too much of it.

And that is fine. Just don't change what your character would do based on OOC knowledge. That's my whole point--I don't care what your character does or doesn't do, just don't change it when you get OOC info. This applies to plots, and it also applies to IC relationships--be they romantic or sexual or platonic.

By the way, I am also here for the intrigue and plots, and my character is involved in plenty of that. She also happens to be pretty dang cute. If I wanted to cyber, I'm sure I could get plenty of that in WoW or another MMORPG, albeit maybe without pretty emotes. Even though I'm not here for sex/romance, it would be mind-blowingly un-IC for my character to not be interested, for a lot of reasons. And I will maintain that interest of hers (both generally and towards particular characters) until she has good IC reasons for not being interested.

[moab]

How the heck do people "do it" in WOW?  *boggle*
I gotta laugh. I know people do - but it strikes me that the medium is not flexible enough.  

I think also that most people will play realistically, Gim, (might have to use that for a character name now) but there will be exceptions.  

I think you could expand your argument to be "Please play realistically - regardless of the situation.  Do not use OOC information to change your RP as much as possible"  

Obviously, if the game is going down in an hour, you might not want to mount that big search in the desert - but also don't suddenly know things that your character doesn't know (like even how to get from Tuluk to Allanak and how to avoid the nasties on the way if you've never been.

Best way to avoid any of the gender / character issues?
Do not _ever_ go OOC.

If you feel you _must_ for whatever odd reason don't reveal anything you don't want known.  I have no idea how someone could have guessed your gender from ooc communication (other than asking and being told) but in the future, err on the side of caution.

:-D

[Kelen]

Hmm....yeah I play 100% male characters. What can I say? I just like it that way. Um, as for romance, I think it's a very good side of the game. And I do agree that player gender shouldn't matter...It's a game.

As for having too much of it...I think it's part of the Zalanthian intrigue. You got a kuraci, he likes spice, and women. *shrug*

Now, my guys die a lot before they can get very far  :wink: , but, when they do get far, I'll throw in a relationship somewhere.

I do agree, however, that if someone just makes characters 24/7 who are just made to be sex-machines, and never have any other plots....that's a little messed up. But generally, I like seeing romance in the game, and so far, It's been a bit under-played in my opinion.

[Gimfalisette]

Best way to avoid any of the gender / character issues?
Do not _ever_ go OOC.

If you feel you _must_ for whatever odd reason don't reveal anything you don't want known.  I have no idea how someone could have guessed your gender from ooc communication (other than asking and being told) but in the future, err on the side of caution.

Perhaps this is just because I'm generally very tuned in to the subtext of conversation, but I do think that most people will make assumptions about a person's gender online based on criteria such as use of smileys; flatness or lift of tone conveyed by punctuation; admission of lack of game-specific knowledge (such as combat--would be interpreted as female); use of phrases like "hey dude" or "thanks man" (guy-speak); etc.

Like I said, I do try to completely stay away from use of OOC. In this particular situation, it was difficulties with the code that forced the OOC.

[moab]

If you know what to avoid, avoid it.

[Malken]

That's strange.. I never tried to second-guess if the player I was involved with in a relationship was a real woman or not in reality.. I knew one out of character, but I never played it differently than the ones I only know in game..

I'm not really sure how it would change how I see your character if you'd go..

OOC - You play a lover much better than my ex boyfriend ^_^ or if you'd go..

OOC - Nice romantic stuff, man, I'm going to get myself a beer now *grunt*

And I'm surprised that you say no one flirts or tries to hit on your characters, I thought it was one of the main complains about female characters, that pretty much every single characters hit on them

Perhaps it's just a concidence?

[Gimfalisette]

If you know what to avoid, avoid it.

It hadn't occurred to me previously that I would need to avoid it, i.e., need to avoid presenting as RL female through use of language. Being a newb, I'm still in the "wow everyone here is such a perfect RPer and far better than me and they would never mis-use OOC info" stage. Obviously now I am thinking that I should be even more careful with not just the frequency of OOC, but the style of OOC that I use and the things I admit to not knowing.

[Marauder Moe]

First off, Arm seems to have a pretty good number of female players.  I think polls have shown around 30%, if not more.  Beyond that, I think that women seem just as likely, if not more likely, to play cross-gender characters. It may be closer to 80% of female characters are actually played by women.  So, I don't think the idea that other characters started hitting on your character because the player "found out" that your character was actually played by a woman is that likely.

I will admit, as a male, that the idea of playing out a romance with another male player (regardless of the characters' genders) feels weird to me.  I'm not sure I can get over it.  I haven't played a female character but I am planning to eventually, though, so I guess I'll find out.  Theres plenty to do in Arm besides romance, however.

Another thing is that for the most part it's very easy to tell if someone is a new player.  It's also very common for people to (subconciously perhaps) have their characters be more attracted to the more seasoned Armers.  I know it's happened to me, though I do also try to make an effort to draw in newer players that way.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I've never had a real romantic relationship in game, despite the fact that I have had three characters live 40+ days. I'm not sure why. I think it may be because I'm worried about being sexist somehow by picking the sort of character to have a relationship with IG that I would in RL. I like them shapely and cute, flawless if you like, in real life. In game, supposedly, it's a sign of weakness.

That's somewhat off-topic. I, as a male, have a really hard time seeing myself playing a romantic relationship, gay or straight, with another male player. On the other hand, I'd potentially be fade-to-black gay with a female player, and certianly straight. It's a very OOC thing, but I can't get around it.

If I were to find out that the PC I was messing with was a male in RL, though, nothing would change IG. OOC I'd become squeamish, but I'd manage not to let it show IG.

How is that different from the other? I don't know. Maybe it's the fact that once I've commited, I've commited, as opposed to the other senario, in which I have to decide before anything happens at all.

I suspend most of my OOC opinions in favor of the game's enviroment, but having a romantic relationship with a male player just ... bothers me. Maybe I'll get over it one day.

[moab]

I've totally mud3x00red you 7.

;-)

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I highly doubt it, but if you did, nobody else can claim to have done so, since it's only happened once in my 6-7 years.

I'm deprived.

[moab]

Damnit, it must have been someone else!!! :oops:

PS:
Happened only once with me too (that wasn't a complete 1liner ftb) and that was with the masterful Shaleah.

[Gimfalisette]

I suspend most of my OOC opinions in favor of the game's enviroment, but having a romantic relationship with a male player just ... bothers me. Maybe I'll get over it one day.

I'm not saying you should get over it--I know for a fact that my husband would never want to RP a romance opposite another guy, and there's no reason that you or he or anyone should change your feelings on that. Just don't change your character's mind due to OOC knowledge. But that doesn't sound like a problem for you--your characters just "are" a particular way (non-romantic) and that's what you've stuck to.

Romance can be fun to play out ICly, but I have found that it also gets in the way of my character accomplishing what I want her to do, because she's moping around or waiting for someone. OOCly, I think that's boring, but ICly, it makes total sense for her to do. Oh well.

[Nao]

I know that I come across as very male to a number of people online - even if I'm female  and sometimes my (female) characters do, too - even if I'm female as a player. There has been some romance and a few more offers in the lives of my characters - one of which came across as very unattractive.

There's been that 'I always knew that female Amos wasn't played by a female' comment.

[Intrepid]

There are more females in game than you're giving credit to, Gim.  Being one of
those females, I tend to approach each role with the question of whether or not
one gender seems to fit the concept better than the other.  Sometimes, I'll just
play one gender or the other if I haven't in a while.

That said, I've never had a female character that wasn't hit on by at least one pc,
be it male or female, no matter how putrid or frightening my desc was--but then,
I never tried to pursue a relationship.  Perhaps you're being too aggressive?  Also,
the ooc exchange, if you came across as being nice to the other player, might have
made them feel more attached to you without them realizing it, and so they decided
to pursue you more.

My male pcs, who also aren't trying to pursue a romance/relationship of any kind,
get hit on about half the time.

[Gimfalisette]

It is true, I could be completely wrong about the situation. Perhaps it was not OOC knowledge at all that altered things. For the last several years, I have played MMORPGs versus being in an RP-intensive environment, and in an MMORPG if a female character is found to be played by a male--people freak out and even if they style themselves "roleplayers" will completely change what they do when they claim to be "in character."

It is good to get all your thoughts on this subject, thank you.

[SpyGuy]

I wouldn't take it into account with my characters actions, I really try to remain neutral with that.  If I did find out another player was male though and was romantically involved I would fade to black from then on in for any sort of graphic sex.  To me it'd just be too weird.  Though out of the handful of times I have mudsexed on Arm I wouldn't be that surprised to find out one or more were men.  Ignorance is bliss sometimes.

[Lavalamps]

I'm a guy, and I don't have any problem playing a female.
And in my short time of playing this game so far, ive never had a relationship, or a mudsex encounter, or even an RP-ed desire to mudsex another character... but I personally wouldnt see any problem having mudsex with a RL guy. Like someone posted earlier, its about the characters, not the author.

[Anonymous]

Despite my character being very attractive socially and physically, there has been a definite lack of aggressive pursuit from male characters which, honestly, doesn't seem realistic at all.

No offense, but you can't expect every male PC to find your female PC as attractive as you believe it to be.  Different people will have differing opinions, and act accordingly.  The reasons they are giving you ICly could well be entirely legitimate.  Expecting every male your PC meets to aggressively persue her is unrealistic.

[Cenghiz]

Despite my character being very attractive socially and physically, there has been a definite lack of aggressive pursuit from male characters which, honestly, doesn't seem realistic at all.

IRL, men hunt females. They seek women to have a romantic affair, have sex, get married... anything. Women often compare the men showing interest and pick the best. There are agreessive behaviours of females? It's not _that_ general.

In Zalanthas, male=female. Man doesn't mean sexually agreessive and woman doesn't mean you should be more passive.

So what they're doing was totally in rhyme with the gameworld. There's nothing to change in my opinion.

[Medena]

I am a woman irl and have played one male PC so far. I will probably play more in the future.  I don't really understand why knowing someone's rl gender would make any difference to someone's character interacting with another character.

Just as a side note, I find this interesting:

My burly, unattractive, crotch-scratching female Bynner probably got hit on more in her short life than all of my attractive female PC's put together.

My effeminate, foppish male PC was aggressively pursued by several female PC's.  He found the thought of sex with women repugnant but, since a couple of them gave him gifts, he encouraged them with mild flirtation.

[Armaddict]

I, personally...find relationships/social scenes to be one of the -main- things you can get into with your characters to make them more in-depth, and to provide other facets of your character's life to keep them entertaining when other things are not available for such.  Noble house guards in relationships makes them interesting for -far- longer, in my opinion.

That being said, I've had a lot of situations where I've thought about 'gender bending'.  Like Venomz said...

I, as a male, have a really hard time seeing myself playing a romantic relationship, gay or straight, with another male player.

This is why, in general, I prefer just to -not know- the gender of the player.  I have and still do sometimes engage in sexual role-play with consent, and no, it's not because I can get off on it or anything.  Characters intimate with your own get to see a situation where a lot about your character can be revealed...those scenes really can be exposing to the 'mentality' of your character.  Submissive, dominating, selfless, selfish, loving, lustful...whatever.

If it's faded to black, that stuff can be discussed.  If it's played out, it can be displayed.

More akin to the original topic...I -do- see a trend that's somewhat visible with this sort of thing, but I also kind of understand it.  A straight guy is -extremely- uncomfortable, generally, playing out that sort of scene, or even hinting at it, with a woman.  The discussion is easier.  If you do let it slip that you're a female player, the guy suddenly knows...hey...it's a relationship opportunity that I know won't be freakishly weird if I find something out later on.

Not to say that there aren't some people who really...-really-...like the sex scene, but it's not always the case.  Sometimes...it's just a matter of comfort.

That being said...yes, I have had characters in relationships with men who played women.  And some of them were awesome.  Finding out a little weird, but a lot of the time the integrity of the game is all that matters, and there are more players than you think that can take that with a little maturity.  Thankfully...I don't -think- I've ever gone into role-play with a male player that would -freak me out-.  But not knowing is the best way to go, because you don't really need to think about it, and the character's mentality can flow.

[bloodfromstone]

I was once told, straight up, by another player that they would have shot for a relationship with my female character if they had not known I was a male player. It's sad, but it happens.

Personally, I have no problems playing out romantic interest between any combination of genders, player and character alike. I have played a female character involved with men, a male involved with a women, and a man involved with a man, etc. As a few others have said, it's all about the characters, not the players. Personally, I feel the hetreosexual, men hunting women sort of relationships out there is very over-represented, but maybe that's just me.

[Gimfalisette]

I, personally...find relationships/social scenes to be one of the -main- things you can get into with your characters to make them more in-depth, and to provide other facets of your character's life to keep them entertaining when other things are not available for such.  Noble house guards in relationships makes them interesting for -far- longer, in my opinion.

I definitely agree with this. Most characters will probably have some kind of "facade" and some kind of "real me," but how is the "real me" ever going to get out there without relationships? Yes, sometimes those can be platonic friendships. But sometimes they should also be romantic/sexual relationships, because those create the potential for more layers of personality to be revealed. My best girlfriend in RL does not know many of the things that my husband knows about me, even though I love her and trust her--there are just things that I would never reveal to her. (No, not just kinky stuff )

Also, relationships can facilitate a discovery process about your character. Your character's IC boss is probably not gonna ask what your char's hopes, dreams, and fears are; a lover is much more likely to do that, and to say "hey let's work together toward that." Needing to be able to answer those questions about the interior life of the character forces the player to create, or call up a more detailed interior life. Or maybe your character doesn't have big dreams--then hooking up with another character that does can provide opportunities for RP.

Another thing that relationships potentially do is to drag your character away from his/her IC duties or personal IC goals. This can create fun conflicts--"Damn, I'm in trouble again because I skipped XYZ in order to spend time with them" or "I'll never move up in rank if I don't spend less time with this person, maybe I'll dump them for a while."

[Gimfalisette]

I was once told, straight up, by another player that they would have shot for a relationship with my female character if they had not known I was a male player. It's sad, but it happens.

Personally, I have no problems playing out romantic interest between any combination of genders, player and character alike. I have played a female character involved with men, a male involved with a women, and a man involved with a man, etc. As a few others have said, it's all about the characters, not the players. Personally, I feel the hetreosexual, men hunting women sort of relationships out there is very over-represented, but maybe that's just me.

Well...I guess then it does happen, as I thought, at times. Bummer.

About heterosexual men-hunting-women relationships happening too much: Probably so. Like I said earlier, I think everyone should be hunting everyone that their character would be interested in ICly. Fix the sexism by making everyone more aggressive

[mansa]

The best mudsex I ever encountered was with another male player.  Damn that girl was smokin', though.

[Gimfalisette]

The best mudsex I ever encountered was with another male player.  Damn that girl was smokin', though.

You wrote the name on the bathroom wall but you didn't leave the phone number. That sucks.

[Morfeus]

Despite my character being very attractive socially and physically, there has been a definite lack of aggressive pursuit from male characters which, honestly, doesn't seem realistic at all. There has been a lot of flirting and suggesting, but not even much leaning toward anything more. Typical attitudes of male characters toward love/sex seem to fall into the "my work keeps me too busy" or "I'm a desert ranger loner" or "I prefer whores" buckets. Note: If that is IC for your character, -fine-. Go ahead and stick with that, that's good.

IMHO, if most of players act some way, it does not have to be because most of players do sometime "wrong". I like approaching such things more ICly - perhaps your character is not as attractive as you think? How would she react on all this, would she be disappointed? Losing her self-confidence? Losing interest in men? I think this approach is much more fun than something like: "My character is so attractive and if nobody wants to f*** her it is because everyone is unrealistic and odd."

[Gimfalisette]

IMHO, if most of players act some way, it does not have to be because most of players do sometime "wrong". I like approaching such things more ICly - perhaps your character is not as attractive as you think? How would she react on all this, would she be disappointed? Losing her self-confidence? Losing interest in men? I think this approach is much more fun than something like: "My character is so attractive and if nobody wants to f*** her it is because everyone is unrealistic and odd."

A couple of posters have proffered the theory that perhaps my character is not actually attractive. Since I'm the one playing her, not the one playing the other characters, obviously I don't have a definitive answer on that. However, if I look at this from an "if this was a real world" standpoint--it doesn't make a lot of sense for there to be -so- much very heavy flirting and "I'd like to get you into bed" discussion if there was no attraction present. Unless Zalanthan people are extremely different from Earth people, this level of flirtation should signal sexual/romantic interest. The times in my life when I've been flirted with like that have always meant the other person actually was interested in me and wanted to pursue something "more."

My point from the beginning has been: Discovery or assumption of RL gender should -not- influence whether your character "goes for it." If they're wired to go for it, they should; and if not, they shouldn't. It's about realistic roleplay based on the character and events, not OOC info.

[moab]

Gotta keep this in mind:

Take someone to bed (alone) and you are a perfect assassination target.

It's a serious deal if it's more than a romp in a tent outdoors.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, I play cross-gender often.

More often than not, in fact.

[Fnord]

I'd bet one large that 90% of lesbian mud sex on Arm is two guys playing female characters, having a special Brokeback Shield Wall moment together. I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.  :twisted:

[Intrepid]

I'd bet one large that 90% of lesbian mud sex on Arm is two guys playing female characters, having a special Brokeback Shield Wall moment together. I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.  :twisted:

That means that the other10% of that was actually the other two female players I
knew of (back when I knew players on Isca) having threesomes with me...

[John]

That means that the other10% of that was actually the other two female players I
knew of (back when I knew players on Isca) having threesomes with me...

Nope. It means it's one man and one woman I'd say the amount of times it's two women players would be statistically insignificant.

[Flirty Kank]

Not everyone who flirts does it because they want to get someone into bed.  It might be purely for fun, to tease, as a way of being friendly, flattery to get something else...  The trick is to figure out what the other person really wants from you.

I am an incorrigible flirt IRL, and quite often my flirting has been mistaken for wanting to get someone in bed.

[Intrepid]

Nope. It means it's one man and one woman I'd say the amount of times it's two women players would be statistically insignificant.

Umm, no...I knew the players outside of mud and had talked to them on the phone,
John.  The gender was quite obvious.

[Kennath]

Nope. It means it's one man and one woman I'd say the amount of times it's two women players would be statistically insignificant.

Umm, no...I knew the players outside of mud and had talked to them on the phone,
John.  The gender was quite obvious.

Lucky kank...

-Ken

[Adhira]

I agree that RL information or knowledge should not change a pcs actions, in any situation. Be it finding out that the hot girl is a dude sitting at the computer, or learning that everyone following Sergeant Dopeyhead just dropped off the shield wall and you're about to follow - it's what's ic for the character, then do it.

However, just because pcs are flirting a lot and not doing the deed also does not automatically compute to them only wanting to RP with the opposite sex.

I've had pcs that have flirted a lot. You would have sworn they wanted in your pants. But really they wanted you to like them, not kill them, they wanted your sid, they wanted your sekrits, they wanted something - sex? Meh.

Like everything on Zalanthas most people have a reason behind what they do, it just might not be the obvious one.  Flirting is much more useful as a tool than just a means to get a little something something.

[spawnloser]

Yeah, but flirting to get a little something something is the best use for flirting.  

Seriously, I play nearly half and half as far as gender goes for my characters.  About half of each is interested in getting some play.  It always seems to be the other half that get attention from the same/opposite gender.

[Akaramu]

Is it me, or is every female player's first (or first few) character(s) based on the concept of being pretty / cute and getting lots of attention?

p.s. I was no exception  :oops:

[Melody]

For me, yes, I create a pretty, attention seeking character with some flaw for every mud I start with.

I don't know about others, but personally, I found it the best way to get to know the mud, the people, and everything else using a character that doesn't shy away from interactions. Granted, others have different approaches, but for me, it's the easiest and laziest way, rather than die over 10 times to find out approaching nobles is bad for your health, such violence puts me off the game on a permanent basis when I'm trying out a game for the first time. Simply because the goal is to get a feel for the game and whether or not I wish to stay in the environment, not to waste time making tons of characters and waiting for approval.

Edit: I think I derailed by accident. As for the original question, I think females don't mind it as much as male, I might be wrong, of course. I certainly don't care which gender is the player behind the character. On the other hand, I detest playing male characters, for a variety of reasons. Too attached to playing characters that are lesss than beautiful and magnificent. Must be.

[Larrath]

Is it me, or is every female player's first (or first few) character(s) based on the concept of being pretty / cute and getting lots of attention?

Virtually everyone does it in the earlier stages of roleplaying.  Well, females tend to go with the super-pretty woman (who may or may not be frail) and males tend to go with super-pretty, heroic warriors or mages.
In a way, I think it's just part of the natural development of the roleplaying mindset.  You know, like the demonic rituals every other Friday and the virgin sacrifices.

The thread itself seems to be about people making an OOC distinction between male or female characters based on the gender of their players.  This is a bad thing to do.  If you ever feel uncomfortable playing out a sex scene, just fade to black.  That's what consent is for.

About flirtation - yeah, people don't always want sex.  Also, if one character appears to be too pretty and/or wanton, they might get looked at as an f-me PC and simply not treated as seriously.  And what can I say?
Once I had a character with very low self esteem.  He was somewhat deformed and alone and unloved.  And then a character I identified as an f-me came by, dragged this character by the proverbial collar and romped with him, paying little apparent attention to stuff like, say, how the room started glowing at one point.  My character couldn't get out of sleeping with her, but I as a player decided that it will have a reduced impact on him; I didn't like the idea that my character has to have a giant shift in outlook because of some random encounter with an f-me.
That could have also been because of bitterness at a handful of characters, some twinky and some not, who attacked and attempted to kill my character at random, without interaction and with little sense.

Anyhow, that was my mentality at the time.  And even though he had that one bit of steamy sex, he stayed timid and shy around the girl that he liked.  If I had to change/stop that sort of roleplay with the girl, which was consistent and very enjoyable for me, because a supermodel-class f-me picked my deformed character, I would have felt cheated.

All this said, my mentality was not ideal and I could have handled the f-me, the sexual encounter and the emotional aftermath differently and without trying to downplay the 'lesser' player's actions.  I still think this downplaying is common among a goodly portion of the game populace, and I can certainly understand it.

[Cuusardo]

Is it me, or is every female player's first (or first few) character(s) based on the concept of being pretty / cute and getting lots of attention?

p.s. I was no exception  :oops:

It's just you.  My first PC was a shy wallflower that was a virgin until she was 30 years old.

[Intrepid]

I didn't acctually make a pretty pc, but the lack of negative aspects in the description
made people think she was entirely unblemished, rather than just a slightly
mutated character that I brought over from my Dark Sun tabletop group.

[Gimfalisette]

Is it me, or is every female player's first (or first few) character(s) based on the concept of being pretty / cute and getting lots of attention?

For the record, this is not my first character on this MUD, and my first character was not pretty or engaging at all. I also have a long string of well-planned / -developed characters elsewhere. I am actually far more prone to creating female characters who are unattractive, or cold bitches, or both. However, for a lot of reasons I didn't want to play that this time. It does get tiring playing the same types of characters always, for one thing, and this is a big change from my usual trend. Also, since I OOCly don't know my way around the MUD or the code, it's much easier to ICly play a character who makes friends easily and can ask a lot of questions.

In a way, I think it's just part of the natural development of the roleplaying mindset.

I've been roleplaying for ten years. Granted, not in environments as intense as this, or where the overall quality of roleplay is so high. However, I have a lot of experience with character creation, background, long-term development, running plots, etc. and have regularly been called an "RP snob" in other places. Although I'm new here, I'm not a noob to RP.

Part of the genesis of this character was reading over a whole lot of the threads on so-called "F-me" characters and dealing with my own bias about those types of characters and my disinclination to play them. (Them meaning pretty, flirtatious characters--the type that often get labeled "F-me.") It's actually very interesting to explore what is the "underneath" of the psychology of a character that is so pretty and flirtatious. Why are they that way? How will they end up changing? How are other characters reacting? Unfortunately, to reflect back to my original point--if other players are ICly reacting based on OOC knowledge or lack thereof--then playing out this character's development becomes less true.

I knew going in that my character -probably- would -initially- get OOCly labeled an "F-me" by some players. I don't care about that, if it happens--although I haven't actually seen any evidence of that, ICly. (The vast majority of characters respond very positively to my character in terms of willingness to engage generally.) The cool and ironic thing is that--for IC and OOC reasons my character -can't- move up in her line of work by sleeping around. It doesn't matter who she mudsexes, it won't gain her any upgrade in rank. I planned that part of it too, and I have the application email to prove it

[Delirium]

My first character was a sexy redheaded.... half-elf.   :oops:


p.s.  For the record, I don't care if it's a girl or guy behind whoever I'm interacting with.

Hell, one of my characters once had a crush on a guy played by a girl.. and I have genderbended.  So ladies, watch out, that guy might be me.

[LauraMars]

One of my MALE characters had crushes on: guys played by girls, girls played by guys, girls played by girls, and guys played by guys.

Yay!

Are we turning this thread into a "what makes an f-me" discussion?  If so, I move we reconsider.

[Gimfalisette]

One of my MALE characters had crushes on: guys played by girls, girls played by guys, girls played by girls, and guys played by guys.

Yay!

Are we turning this thread into a "what makes an f-me" discussion?  If so, I move we reconsider.

I completely agree with this. There have been too many threads on that subject already. And it's a complete tangent from my original point.

However, I do have to say that I just got a really sad PM from someone who says she doesn't play ARM anymore because she kept getting flak for playing the kinds of characters she likes to play--which happen to be pretty and flirtatious.

Now back to the actual topic, if anyone has anything left to say on that. All of y'all's replies have been interesting.

[moab]

That's too bad about the person who like to play pretty characters.  S/he should just go ahead and do it - regardless of what others thinks.

Currently I play a character who would _love_ to get their hands on someone pretty.

If only the young ones would stop dying so quickly!

:cry:

[Gimfalisette]

Currently I play a character who would _love_ to get their hands on someone pretty.

If only the young ones would stop dying so quickly!

:cry:

And that didn't sound sinister -at all-  

On another note, I am feeling more comfortable about the situation that I previously mentioned, after reading over my logs extensively. I think it's likely that the other character was actually working it all out IC, and the player wasn't influenced by OOC knowledge. At least, I'm giving the player the benefit of the doubt on it.

[moab]

I know that in the past I've made bad calls, trying to second-guess other people's motives.  Most folks are really doing their best to RP properly and keep that IC / OOC thing in check.

On the occasions that folks have a problem with that - well - we have permadeath.

[rishenko]

There are many forms of manipulation.  Some physical, some mental, some with threats, others with gifts.  Flirting is just another tool.  You use it when it fits the job at hand.  When a character flirts with mine, I oocly get paranoid and cautious, wondering what con is being pulled or what the other service/item/sid/request is for which they are truly aiming.

[Larrath]

In a way, I think it's just part of the natural development of the roleplaying mindset.

I've been roleplaying for ten years. Granted, not in environments as intense as this, or where the overall quality of roleplay is so high. However, I have a lot of experience with character creation, background, long-term development, running plots, etc. and have regularly been called an "RP snob" in other places. Although I'm new here, I'm not a noob to RP.

In case it wasn't clear, I just want to point out that my statement posted above is general and relates to what I see as the process of maturing by a roleplayer in MUDs.  It's an estimation, and I only brought it up in response to Akaramu's post.  It has nothing to do with any specific player in Arm in any kinky way, curvy shape or naked form.

[spawnloser]

My first PC was a shy wallflower that was a virgin until she was 30 years old.

(snort) ...and I made that character for you.  

My first character was a sexy redheaded.... half-elf.   :oops:

Read any Dark Sun books lately?

Me, my first character was a young, average attractiveness, human female burglar/acrobat that got a job cleaning up Oash's barracks.

[Krath]

I have to agree with Venomz 110%. Though my PCs sometimes do get in romatical relationships,
I am not one to typically do them. The Maybe it is me OOCLY, and not being able to fully grasp the
RP Concept, but if I did find out a PC which mine was romatically involved with was a male, I
do think it would make a difference.  

I think though, that PCs that have a problem with this, like myself, would be better off just making
an IC background family, or stick to the whores and such. It is easier to deal with and you know
what you do not want to get into could have a chance at happening.

[Intrepid]

My first character was a sexy redheaded.... half-elf.   :oops:

Read any Dark Sun books lately?

Do you mean Sadira by chance?  She was a half-elf preserver enchantress with
amber hair and ice blue eyes.  She had a human noble and a mul ex-gladiator
as her lovers too.

Before the revolt, she was a concubine slave to the head templar no less.  I
loved that character.  She was greedy on multiple levels, and it bit her in the ass
each time.

[spawnloser]

Could have sworn she was a red-head...but yes, I was referring to Sadira.

...and yes, she was an awesome character, but I was still dissappointed when she was able to use the staff to kill the halfling psi/preserver.

[Intrepid]

Could have sworn she was a red-head...but yes, I was referring to Sadira.

...and yes, she was an awesome character, but I was still dissappointed when she was able to use the staff to kill the halfling psi/preserver.

Yeah, that whole situation with Nok and the gang was a bit anti-climactic, but it did
serve to show that she was definitely not a hero in the sense that Agis and Rikus
were in the series; she basically a greedy bitch who had every bad thing coming to
her that happened later.  It was only after she showed even less regard for life
than a sorceror king that she even starts to get her act together, and even then she
realizes only after losing Agis that she threw away her relationship with him because
she didn't want to make Rikus jealous.

I'd say the only selfless thing she ever did in that whole series was encourage Rikus
to go back to Neeva in the end.  Everything else was pure damage control due to her
fuckups.  I loved it.

[spawnloser]

This is a complete derail (not like we're not derailing already anyway) and this may be better off in Odd Urges...but I'd love to see a group get together that was like that group...Rikus, Neeva, Agis, Sadira...in Arm.

[Intrepid]

This is a complete derail (not like we're not derailing already anyway) and this may be better off in Odd Urges...but I'd love to see a group get together that was like that group...Rikus, Neeva, Agis, Sadira...in Arm.

There's just one (read: several) problems with this:

- Someone would complain that a noble was out adventuring.
- Someone would complain that people were treating a half-elf well.
- Someone would complain that a noble was not trying to reslave the slaves.
- Someone would complain that a mul was talking to people rather than killing them.
- Someone would complain that a noble understood druidism.
- Someone would complain that a preserver was accepted by a group of pcs outside
a tribe.

[InsertCleverNameHere]

derail #1: I've been accused of making numerous borderline (or completely over the line) fme PC's. And no, not necessarily female.
derail #2:

Currently I play a character who would _love_ to get their hands on someone pretty.

Likewise. My current character adores a pretty face/nice bod, male or female. So long as they're pretty, the same race, and 'normal', woohoo!
derail #3: I think I may have to visit the local library. I've never read the books, but I might now.

And as to the origional topic, waaaay back there behind all the fun derailment. I couldn't give a sh** less as to the gender behind the PC's I'm interacting with, when we're in the game. I, unlike many who say "No OOC contact for me EVER!", do have a somewhat large list of Arm contacts on my AIM (though not as many as some of the arm-whores I know, who seem to know everybody), and talk to many of them regularly. And even then, were I to run into one of their characters, I'm quite content to simply factor out the gender of the player, and concider the gender of the character.

[Briarfox]

My first character was not by any means 'beautiful'. Mildly cute if you dressed her up real nice, but over all, not in my opinion was she attractive. But oddly, my perspective didn't count, as it really shouldn't ingame because I had -alot- of interested PCs, male and female, played by both genders for all I know. I would not say they all were aggressive, a couple were, but I think that if a relationship fits the situation it all falls into place. That could be the romantic in me, but seriously, you cannot and should -not- force it. If you get into a situation with your PC and another one and it is -you- who wants the relationship for whatever reason and not necessarily your character then you are discounting not only your character but the other PC and likely the game.

Relationships do make the world more indepth and do make your characters interesting to you and to some others, but it is not the most important aspect of the game and I never much fancied the people that go into roleplaying looking for a relationship for their character or themselves, not that I am saying anyone is doing this. I am just rambling.

Edit: I have also never had any different treatment from other players when and if they realize my gender as a player. I think that to complain that your character isn't getting enough demands by males is just rather unnecessary. I -really- don't think any of that situation was about you being a female player.

[path]

My OOC discomfort in playing with the mix of genders and sexuality in game makes me, persoanlly, far more likely to enter into a relationship IG with someone I'm certain is a guy.

It bleeds over. What can I say? The last time I got mixed up in a IC relationship with another chick I quit playing almost entirely for several months because I just couldn't dig on it. My character could, but not me.