Engaging in IC romance based on player gender

[Gimfalisette]

I just had a realization about something that happened to my character, and thought I would bring it here for some interesting discussion. Note: I'm not trying to correct anyone in particular. I just think this is an issue to be aware of generally. And I'm not saying that OOC info absolutely did influence IC decisions, I just think that it probably did.

My character is female. I am female in RL. I do not tell people in game that I am female in RL, because that is totally OOC. (I very very rarely communicate OOCly at all--I don't correct mistakes, I don't LOL, I just don't do OOC unless I absolutely have to.) I don't talk to people on IM or in IRC either. So generally speaking, there is no way for anyone to know that the player of my character is female.

Many female characters are played by male players. My guess would be about half. Most male characters are probably played by male players, although there will be a portion played by females. (These assumptions are based on research in other online games.) So, male players playing male characters likely know that the comely wench they are eyeing in the tavern has a 50% chance of being played by another guy.

Despite my character being very attractive socially and physically, there has been a definite lack of aggressive pursuit from male characters which, honestly, doesn't seem realistic at all. There has been a lot of flirting and suggesting, but not even much leaning toward anything more. Typical attitudes of male characters toward love/sex seem to fall into the "my work keeps me too busy" or "I'm a desert ranger loner" or "I prefer whores" buckets. Note: If that is IC for your character, -fine-. Go ahead and stick with that, that's good.

However.

Recently there was a situation in which I was forced by game code issues to talk OOC briefly for resolution (and by forced I mean there was a mechanics issue that was totally OOC), when some of the male characters who should ICly be interested in my character were present. When talking OOC, I am my "self" and I probably came across as feminine unwittingly. (Although IMO admitting lack of knowledge of code, plus being a good RPer, plus using a smiley in OOC should not insta-equal female player, it probably does.)

The next day, my character hooked up with one of the male characters who was present when I had to go OOC. Do I know for certain that this happened because of OOC knowledge? No. However, the suspicion is definitely there in my mind.

So, down to the point: If your character would ICly fall in love / have sex with that other character, then do it. If your character would not ICly do those things, then don't do them. But please don't change what your character would/will do based on OOC knowledge or assumptions about the player's gender.

When I made my character, I decided ahead of time what kind of characters she would be attracted to, and thus far the two she's liked have fallen into that definition. And there are a bunch more that she could potentially like, and none of this is based on OOC anything. If I found out that there was a female player behind any of those characters, I would just think, "Nifty, good job on her for playing such a convincing guy" and move on with whatever happened ICly. (In fact, in previous RP elsewhere I have played a male character that was ICly in love with a female character who was probably played by a female. RL gender should not matter ICly.)

Comments? Experiences? Thanks for reading this far.

[Malifaxis]

My character is female. I am female in RL. I do not tell people in game that I am female in RL, because that is totally OOC. (I very very rarely communicate OOCly at all--I don't correct mistakes, I don't LOL, I just don't do OOC unless I absolutely have to.) I don't talk to people on IM or in IRC either. So generally speaking, there is no way for anyone to know that the player of my character is female.

I don't know if you know this, but this board is public.  You just told us.  Just an FYI.

Just trying to help.

[Gimfalisette]

I don't know if you know this, but this board is public.  You just told us.  Just an FYI.

Just trying to help.

Yeah, I really did know that. But thank you. It would be kind of pointless to talk about RL versus IC gender and continue to try to hide mine. However, I'm fairly certain that there is no way of linking my GDB personality to who my character actually is, since I'm pretty careful about that. My purpose in not revealing my gender in game or talking via means other than the GDB is that I do not want who I am in RL to influence what happens to my character in game; it's not that I care about people just knowing my RL gender, because I don't.

[moab]

I am a male player that plays about 50% male and 50% female characters.  I've had my female characters sought after (when I played the Fme type) and both as male and female tend to RP the same (tend to ftb with the exception of player shaleah who took me to a whole 'nother level and we STILL ftb eventually...but that's a whole other conversation).

I will (and have) tell players who try ooc guess my sex that I'm female if I'm playing a female character.  The reason being?  If someone is so far outside of the "IC mindset" that they are worried about my gender, they don't deserve the truth - and probably couldn't handle it anyway.

Just play the character, you know?

Btw - I've also had player who knew my OOC gender play with my female characters completely realistically.  And to them, hats off.

It's about the story, not about the author.

[jhunter]

Despite my character being very attractive socially and physically, there has been a definite lack of aggressive pursuit from male characters which, honestly, doesn't seem realistic at all.

This is Zalanthas, not the real world. Why doesn't your pc be more aggressive and pursue those they have interest in?

[moab]

I think I would add that it doesn't seem (to me anyway) that people really focus on the "sexual" side (dating, doing it, etc) as much as the intimate, relationship side of relationships in the game.

Sure, some people do, but most of us are here for larger plots and the other stuff adds spice, but it  is not good if there is too much of it.

[Gimfalisette]

This is Zalanthas, not the real world. Why doesn't your pc be more aggressive and pursue those they have interest in?

She does pursue those she is ICly interested in, based on the personality I have given her. She's quite Zalanthan and appropriate to her environment, modified by personality, interests, age, and experience.

But like I said, if I found out that the player of one of the characters she likes is female? Cool, good job. It wouldn't change how my character feels ICly at all.

[Gimfalisette]

I think I would add that it doesn't seem (to me anyway) that people really focus on the "sexual" side (dating, doing it, etc) as much as the intimate, relationship side of relationships in the game.

Sure, some people do, but most of us are here for larger plots and the other stuff adds spice, but it  is not good if there is too much of it.

And that is fine. Just don't change what your character would do based on OOC knowledge. That's my whole point--I don't care what your character does or doesn't do, just don't change it when you get OOC info. This applies to plots, and it also applies to IC relationships--be they romantic or sexual or platonic.

By the way, I am also here for the intrigue and plots, and my character is involved in plenty of that. She also happens to be pretty dang cute. If I wanted to cyber, I'm sure I could get plenty of that in WoW or another MMORPG, albeit maybe without pretty emotes. Even though I'm not here for sex/romance, it would be mind-blowingly un-IC for my character to not be interested, for a lot of reasons. And I will maintain that interest of hers (both generally and towards particular characters) until she has good IC reasons for not being interested.

[moab]

How the heck do people "do it" in WOW?  *boggle*
I gotta laugh. I know people do - but it strikes me that the medium is not flexible enough.  

I think also that most people will play realistically, Gim, (might have to use that for a character name now) but there will be exceptions.  

I think you could expand your argument to be "Please play realistically - regardless of the situation.  Do not use OOC information to change your RP as much as possible"  

Obviously, if the game is going down in an hour, you might not want to mount that big search in the desert - but also don't suddenly know things that your character doesn't know (like even how to get from Tuluk to Allanak and how to avoid the nasties on the way if you've never been.

Best way to avoid any of the gender / character issues?
Do not _ever_ go OOC.

If you feel you _must_ for whatever odd reason don't reveal anything you don't want known.  I have no idea how someone could have guessed your gender from ooc communication (other than asking and being told) but in the future, err on the side of caution.

:-D

[Kelen]

Hmm....yeah I play 100% male characters. What can I say? I just like it that way. Um, as for romance, I think it's a very good side of the game. And I do agree that player gender shouldn't matter...It's a game.

As for having too much of it...I think it's part of the Zalanthian intrigue. You got a kuraci, he likes spice, and women. *shrug*

Now, my guys die a lot before they can get very far  :wink: , but, when they do get far, I'll throw in a relationship somewhere.

I do agree, however, that if someone just makes characters 24/7 who are just made to be sex-machines, and never have any other plots....that's a little messed up. But generally, I like seeing romance in the game, and so far, It's been a bit under-played in my opinion.

[Gimfalisette]

Best way to avoid any of the gender / character issues?
Do not _ever_ go OOC.

If you feel you _must_ for whatever odd reason don't reveal anything you don't want known.  I have no idea how someone could have guessed your gender from ooc communication (other than asking and being told) but in the future, err on the side of caution.

Perhaps this is just because I'm generally very tuned in to the subtext of conversation, but I do think that most people will make assumptions about a person's gender online based on criteria such as use of smileys; flatness or lift of tone conveyed by punctuation; admission of lack of game-specific knowledge (such as combat--would be interpreted as female); use of phrases like "hey dude" or "thanks man" (guy-speak); etc.

Like I said, I do try to completely stay away from use of OOC. In this particular situation, it was difficulties with the code that forced the OOC.

[moab]

If you know what to avoid, avoid it.

[Malken]

That's strange.. I never tried to second-guess if the player I was involved with in a relationship was a real woman or not in reality.. I knew one out of character, but I never played it differently than the ones I only know in game..

I'm not really sure how it would change how I see your character if you'd go..

OOC - You play a lover much better than my ex boyfriend ^_^ or if you'd go..

OOC - Nice romantic stuff, man, I'm going to get myself a beer now *grunt*

And I'm surprised that you say no one flirts or tries to hit on your characters, I thought it was one of the main complains about female characters, that pretty much every single characters hit on them

Perhaps it's just a concidence?

[Gimfalisette]

If you know what to avoid, avoid it.

It hadn't occurred to me previously that I would need to avoid it, i.e., need to avoid presenting as RL female through use of language. Being a newb, I'm still in the "wow everyone here is such a perfect RPer and far better than me and they would never mis-use OOC info" stage. Obviously now I am thinking that I should be even more careful with not just the frequency of OOC, but the style of OOC that I use and the things I admit to not knowing.

[Marauder Moe]

First off, Arm seems to have a pretty good number of female players.  I think polls have shown around 30%, if not more.  Beyond that, I think that women seem just as likely, if not more likely, to play cross-gender characters. It may be closer to 80% of female characters are actually played by women.  So, I don't think the idea that other characters started hitting on your character because the player "found out" that your character was actually played by a woman is that likely.

I will admit, as a male, that the idea of playing out a romance with another male player (regardless of the characters' genders) feels weird to me.  I'm not sure I can get over it.  I haven't played a female character but I am planning to eventually, though, so I guess I'll find out.  Theres plenty to do in Arm besides romance, however.

Another thing is that for the most part it's very easy to tell if someone is a new player.  It's also very common for people to (subconciously perhaps) have their characters be more attracted to the more seasoned Armers.  I know it's happened to me, though I do also try to make an effort to draw in newer players that way.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I've never had a real romantic relationship in game, despite the fact that I have had three characters live 40+ days. I'm not sure why. I think it may be because I'm worried about being sexist somehow by picking the sort of character to have a relationship with IG that I would in RL. I like them shapely and cute, flawless if you like, in real life. In game, supposedly, it's a sign of weakness.

That's somewhat off-topic. I, as a male, have a really hard time seeing myself playing a romantic relationship, gay or straight, with another male player. On the other hand, I'd potentially be fade-to-black gay with a female player, and certianly straight. It's a very OOC thing, but I can't get around it.

If I were to find out that the PC I was messing with was a male in RL, though, nothing would change IG. OOC I'd become squeamish, but I'd manage not to let it show IG.

How is that different from the other? I don't know. Maybe it's the fact that once I've commited, I've commited, as opposed to the other senario, in which I have to decide before anything happens at all.

I suspend most of my OOC opinions in favor of the game's enviroment, but having a romantic relationship with a male player just ... bothers me. Maybe I'll get over it one day.

[moab]

I've totally mud3x00red you 7.

;-)

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I highly doubt it, but if you did, nobody else can claim to have done so, since it's only happened once in my 6-7 years.

I'm deprived.

[moab]

Damnit, it must have been someone else!!! :oops:

PS:
Happened only once with me too (that wasn't a complete 1liner ftb) and that was with the masterful Shaleah.

[Gimfalisette]

I suspend most of my OOC opinions in favor of the game's enviroment, but having a romantic relationship with a male player just ... bothers me. Maybe I'll get over it one day.

I'm not saying you should get over it--I know for a fact that my husband would never want to RP a romance opposite another guy, and there's no reason that you or he or anyone should change your feelings on that. Just don't change your character's mind due to OOC knowledge. But that doesn't sound like a problem for you--your characters just "are" a particular way (non-romantic) and that's what you've stuck to.

Romance can be fun to play out ICly, but I have found that it also gets in the way of my character accomplishing what I want her to do, because she's moping around or waiting for someone. OOCly, I think that's boring, but ICly, it makes total sense for her to do. Oh well.

[Nao]

I know that I come across as very male to a number of people online - even if I'm female  and sometimes my (female) characters do, too - even if I'm female as a player. There has been some romance and a few more offers in the lives of my characters - one of which came across as very unattractive.

There's been that 'I always knew that female Amos wasn't played by a female' comment.

[Intrepid]

There are more females in game than you're giving credit to, Gim.  Being one of
those females, I tend to approach each role with the question of whether or not
one gender seems to fit the concept better than the other.  Sometimes, I'll just
play one gender or the other if I haven't in a while.

That said, I've never had a female character that wasn't hit on by at least one pc,
be it male or female, no matter how putrid or frightening my desc was--but then,
I never tried to pursue a relationship.  Perhaps you're being too aggressive?  Also,
the ooc exchange, if you came across as being nice to the other player, might have
made them feel more attached to you without them realizing it, and so they decided
to pursue you more.

My male pcs, who also aren't trying to pursue a romance/relationship of any kind,
get hit on about half the time.

[Gimfalisette]

It is true, I could be completely wrong about the situation. Perhaps it was not OOC knowledge at all that altered things. For the last several years, I have played MMORPGs versus being in an RP-intensive environment, and in an MMORPG if a female character is found to be played by a male--people freak out and even if they style themselves "roleplayers" will completely change what they do when they claim to be "in character."

It is good to get all your thoughts on this subject, thank you.

[SpyGuy]

I wouldn't take it into account with my characters actions, I really try to remain neutral with that.  If I did find out another player was male though and was romantically involved I would fade to black from then on in for any sort of graphic sex.  To me it'd just be too weird.  Though out of the handful of times I have mudsexed on Arm I wouldn't be that surprised to find out one or more were men.  Ignorance is bliss sometimes.

[Lavalamps]

I'm a guy, and I don't have any problem playing a female.
And in my short time of playing this game so far, ive never had a relationship, or a mudsex encounter, or even an RP-ed desire to mudsex another character... but I personally wouldnt see any problem having mudsex with a RL guy. Like someone posted earlier, its about the characters, not the author.