Quick sandstorm poll. Yes or no.

[RunningMountain]

Poll says it all. Curious as to what the playerbase thinks.

[Many Faces]

Thus again proving that it takes all walks of code to make a good mud.

Good idea.

[moab]

I say yes only because if you could navigate in a "blinding" sandstorm it should be a skill, however, I believe that NO ONE should be able to navigate in a blinding sandstorm unless they are some how use magick.

The best tracker in the land can't see through "blinding."

[flurry]

Yes, absolutely.

If contact is a skill, and ride is a skill, then I think navigate should be a skill for sure.

It just seems like the Armageddon way to start out not so good at something and improve over time.  I can understand quitting out in the wilderness as a non-skill special ability.  But I definitely think navigating would be a good one to turn into a skill.   Even if rangers are the only ones who get the skill at all, it should be a skill, IMHO.

[Anonymous]

While, from a realism standpoint, it makes a lot of sense to make this into a skill (and you then become somewhat more marketable as a character), from a playability standpoint, this kind of sucks.

It could be sandstorming every time I login for a rl month, and I'm just SOL if I want to play with anyone at that point.

But, anyway, isn't this what a ranger is for?

[Sir Diealot]

No, davien, this is not what Rangers are for.

Rangers are for people who want the skillset of medium-high combat skills, and wilderness abilities.

The problem with that is that there -are- warriors, merchants, even certain magickers (Ruks/Whirans seem to fit quite nicely into that) who spend a LOT of time in the desert as well.  The -skillset- is different.. But there is no IC reason, or logical reason, why that person cannot learn to navigate a bit better.

Sure, let Rangers have a higher cap.. and/or start higher..  But that is -not- what Rangers are for.  A class is NOT a 100% forced way for your character to be..  It is simply a guidline of where the char has gone/will most likely continue to go in his/her life.

[EvilRoeSlade]

The problem with that is that there -are- warriors, merchants, even certain magickers (Ruks/Whirans seem to fit quite nicely into that) who spend a LOT of time in the desert as well.  The -skillset- is different.. But there is no IC reason, or logical reason, why that person cannot learn to navigate a bit better.

Neither is there any IC or logical reason why they wouldn't be able to learn how to treat their injuries, search for tracks, use a bow, crossbow, or sling, skin a kill, or spot hidden predators and hidden prey.

But they can't.  Because Arm is a class-based system.  You pick the class.  You get the skill-set.  You play the role.  It's a cycle that works quite well I think, but doesn't have any room for complaining about why your class doesn't get whatever skill it just so happens you want.  These complaints (if they were taken seriously, and thankfully I don't think they are) will only dismantle the system.

[Sir Diealot]

Theres a difference between a somewhat specialized skill like.. Learning how to set a bone, learning how to wrap a wound properly.. using a bow (which is difficult to do well) and other things you aren't 100% exposed to every day in your large desert landscape.  With 4-7 major towns (depending on what you call major)  really -really- spread out.

People are in the desert Every Day..  Eventually they're going to catch on a bit.  The class system shows that you've been focusing on specified skills, at least somewhat pidgon-holeing you, in order to not twink.

Navigation seems, to me, to be something most people could pick up.  Especially someone forced to deal with it a lot of the time.

Note:  There are city-based characters.. ones who never leave.. hence the low starting percentage.  Anyone -can- learn it, not everyone does.  Its like contact, its innate but it has to be practiced before you get good enough to be able to do anything useful with it.

[John]

People are in the desert Every Day..

Sure, and they're smart enough who know when to travel and when to hunker down in a safe spot. When travelling, they know where they'll be able to find safety between where they are and their final destination. They know the warning signs of a fierce storm so they can rush to safety. They know what provisions they'll need and get them before entering the desert.

All of that has nothing to do with code and everything with character (and sometimes player) knowledge.

Eventually they're going to catch on a bit.

A smart ranger says "we stay here in safety until the storm dies." That's what they can catch onto. If it weren't for rangers being able to quit anywhere I'd suggest getting rid of their ability to not get lost in blinding sandstorms.

Navigation seems, to me, to be something most people could pick up.  Especially someone forced to deal with it a lot of the time.

I'd say a fighting ability would be much more universal then walking around in the desert. So until the staff let all classes learn a  weapon skill, I don't think all classes should get walking around in a blinding sandstorm.

[spawnloser]

I voted yes, but only because then not EVERY ranger would be a perfect compass in the dessert...and maybe, MAYBE a subguild could get it at a low cap.

[Sir Diealot]

Sure, and they're smart enough who know when to travel and when to hunker down in a safe spot. When travelling, they know where they'll be able to find safety between where they are and their final destination. They know the warning signs of a fierce storm so they can rush to safety. They know what provisions they'll need and get them before entering the desert.

All of that has nothing to do with code and everything with character (and sometimes player) knowledge.




Neither do I, John.

I think I should be able to, however, scoot from Dune A to Cave B.. by taking a short trek.. without getting blown off course.

I also think sandstorms should drain hp/stun/sta by simply being in the same room as one, without proper equipment.

I also think that the thirst code is a bit too lenient in cities..

I also think that twinkage is annoying.  And running from Luirs to Tuluk in a sandstorm, even if the code supports it.. is Twinky.

I also think that the sandstorm-navigation code shouldn't work in -blinding- storms.. but, rather, when you step east, and oops.. sandstorm that you forgot to weather e and see is there.. you should be able to scoot to a safer place, and hunker down.  YOU DO NOT HUNKER DOWN IN THE OPEN.  THATS PART OF THE DEFINITION OF HUNKERING DOWN,

[Agent_137]

goddamnit, you people are going to turn me into a die-hard conservative when it comes to coding in new things.

i hate this idea. leave my game alone!!! it's fine!

[RunningMountain]

But they can't.  Because Arm is a class-based system.  You pick the class.  You get the skill-set.  You play the role.  It's a cycle that works quite well I think, but doesn't have any room for complaining about why your class doesn't get whatever skill it just so happens you want.  These complaints (if they were taken seriously, and thankfully I don't think they are) will only dismantle the system.

I think with enough roleplay and teaching, who can learn just about any skill or even spell on armageddon. So I've heard.

The point is that rangers are the only class that can navigate, whereas people who may very well be desert dwellers can get lost and accidentally ride their kank into the silt sea. Funny as it may sound. Read below.

Hypothetically speaking, would it not suck if there happened to a 30 day assassin who spent 10 years in the desert and just stumbled into the wrong storm at the wrong time and hit north 5 times and it took him south.

As it is now, this can happen. Unless the players somehow requests for his character to be able to navigate in storms because he's been out there for 10 years. Regardless, I think it'd be nice for it to be a skill. Even if rangers max it and are the best, at least let the other classes try to do it via a navigate skill.

[Wykydtronn]

I voted yes, but only because then not EVERY ranger would be a perfect compass in the dessert...and maybe, MAYBE a subguild could get it at a low cap.

Same reason here.

I wouldn't mind seeing nomad getting a very low caped version... because... well... they live in the fucking desert.

[Morgenes]

Once again the staff position on this is that the code is fine as is.  Rangers having this ability provides needed interaction between characters.  Find a ranger and make buds, he'll save you if you want to go in the desert.

[Aldiel]

No, davien, this is not what Rangers are for.

Rangers are for people who want the skillset of medium-high combat skills, and wilderness abilities.

The problem with that is that there -are- warriors, merchants, even certain magickers (Ruks/Whirans seem to fit quite nicely into that) who spend a LOT of time in the desert as well.  The -skillset- is different.. But there is no IC reason, or logical reason, why that person cannot learn to navigate a bit better.

Sure, let Rangers have a higher cap.. and/or start higher..  But that is -not- what Rangers are for.  A class is NOT a 100% forced way for your character to be..  It is simply a guidline of where the char has gone/will most likely continue to go in his/her life.

Calm down, bro.  I think he was just making the point that rangers don't go the wrong direction when blinded.

[Aldiel]

I voted yes, but only because then not EVERY ranger would be a perfect compass in the dessert...and maybe, MAYBE a subguild could get it at a low cap.

Amen.

[Aldiel]

Once again the staff position on this is that the code is fine as is.  Rangers having this ability provides needed interaction between characters.  Find a ranger and make buds, he'll save you if you want to go in the desert.

But what if we go with spawnloser's suggestion?  I really like his idea.

[Cenghiz]

As far as I know, with additions to the sandstorm code, it now starts weak, then strengthens in time, after the peak it fades slowly. Now we _do_ have a way to determine that a storm's coming.
Travel when you have to, but there will be storms. We cannot say rangers are a minority of the population, befriend one.. Or.. let me become the devil's advocate and offer you to find a proper mage's mind and ask him to be taken back to the city with magick for 300 coins. Don't think many mages will say "No, mundane.. Die ha ha ha!"

[EvilRoeSlade]

I think the intentions of this poll are misleading.  I voted yes on this poll, but only because I think sandstorm navigation should be a skill.  I don't think that anyone but a ranger should be ever have the ability to be even a little good at it.

I think with enough roleplay and teaching, who can learn just about any skill or even spell on armageddon. So I've heard.

But not everyone does.  That's why it's a class-based system.

Rangers are the desert-dwelling class.  If you want a play a desert dweller, then your best bet is to play a ranger.  Going one step forward, the obvious retort is that playing a ranger "every time" is boring.  My response would be that desert-dwelling isn't the be all and end all of the game.  If you're exasperated by this limitation, then I suggest you might find great reward by doing something other than desert dwelling.  Furthermore, classes aren't the be all and end all of the game either.  A class is merely there to support a concept.  A class is a selection of abilities and talents that help you greatly in one specific activity.  A class is not the core of your character.  Playing the same class twice does not mean you have to engage in the same activities or role-play.  In contrast, you should first decide what activities your character is going to spend the majority of his time engaging in, and then choose your class accordingly.

Hypothetically speaking, would it not suck if there happened to a 30 day assassin who spent 10 years in the desert and just stumbled into the wrong storm at the wrong time and hit north 5 times and it took him south.

If I were playing that assassin I would have asked for a class change before I had spent the first year navigating the desert.  On second thought, no, that's only what I'd advise another player suffering from this situation, since I myself would never suffered it.  At character creation I would have thought about what activities this character is going to do, I would have said to myself "I'm going to be spending ten years in the desert at some point" and then I would have forgoed the assassin class in favor of the ranger class.

[Desertman]

I would like this to be a skill...But a skill only rangers have.


I dont want rangers to start off perfect at it...I want those truly rugged hardass rangers who spend weeks at a time in the desert actually enduring the elements to be the experts on it, not the pc's who are rangers codedly but spend more time tavern sitting and working as JoeGuard for LadyFancyPants.

Pretty much I only want the rangers who actually are exposed to the sandstorms to get good at it....So make it a skill...and those rangers who do endure the elements will get good at it...those that dont...wont.

[Yokunama]

I voted yes, but only because then not EVERY ranger would be a perfect compass in the dessert...and maybe, MAYBE a subguild could get it at a low cap.

Just wanted to bring something up.

A ranger possesses two primary abilities: to know where she is at all times and to stalk and kill prey (to feed herself).

If rangers already have the knowhow, what is the point in turning the ability into a skill?

[RunningMountain]

The point is that rangers, even if their background says they were born and raised in a city, can instantly move around in the most blinding, tremendous storms in the known world. A bit unreasonable in my opinion. No other class has an ability like this. Specifically where unique abilities are concerned, all other classes just get a 'skill' that another class doesn't.  

Here however, the ranger gets to do something that no one else can learn supposedly, because they are born with the inherent ability to know where they are at all times. Whereas a warrior can disarm because he gets the skill. And a ranger with years of practice could learn to disarm, depending on the circumstances.

[Xygax]

Interestingly, it is already currently coded as a skill (Tiernan did the fix for this a while ago, iirc).  It just happens to be a skill that only rangers get, and which doesn't show up in your list.  

Yay, skills.

-- X

[FightClub]

Once again the staff position on this is that the code is fine as is.  Rangers having this ability provides needed interaction between characters.  Find a ranger and make buds, he'll save you if you want to go in the desert.

Problem is more often than not, you don't have this choice.  Say you were playing a tribe, everyone wanted to be a warrior, or merchant.  Well you still have to go out and hunt, you still have to provide for the tribe.  But there aren't players there to do it.  Also we're lacking accountable vnpc npc's, that possibly would be able to do such, why aren't they guiding my hopless warrio bob the onslaughter through the blinding storm of skin ripping death?