Quick sandstorm poll. Yes or no.

[Agent_137]

let the VNPCs deal with the VNPCs, and the PCs deal with the PCs.

quite obviously, all your tribe's rangers are tasked out with other duties vital to tribal interests.

if it's such an issue, inform your clan immortal that it is, and perhaps your next tribe-mate will be encouraged to pick ranger class, or perhaps a NPC will be provided if you are important enough to the tribe.

[jstorrie]

Once again the staff position on this is that the code is fine as is.  Rangers having this ability provides needed interaction between characters.  Find a ranger and make buds, he'll save you if you want to go in the desert.

Morgenes!

You're encouraging guild-fishing!

[RunningMountain]

It makes no sense for a "desert" elf not to be able to navigate in a storm. Even if he doesn't know where he is at all times. Which is what exactly? Instinct? Psionic?

[Yokunama]

Once again the staff position on this is that the code is fine as is.  Rangers having this ability provides needed interaction between characters.  Find a ranger and make buds, he'll save you if you want to go in the desert.

Problem is more often than not, you don't have this choice.  Say you were playing a tribe, everyone wanted to be a warrior, or merchant.  Well you still have to go out and hunt, you still have to provide for the tribe.  But there aren't players there to do it.  Also we're lacking accountable vnpc npc's, that possibly would be able to do such, why aren't they guiding my hopless warrio bob the onslaughter through the blinding storm of skin ripping death?

Warrior Bob and merchant Joe, it'd be best for them to stay near the camp.

[Tamarin]

If a warrior is spending enough time out in the wastes as to adopt the ability to navigate storms as well as a ranger, then his warrior skills should deteriorate.  Most notably disarm, but also bash and kick since these skill are (mostly) designed for fighting humanoids.  Same goes for any other class who dwells a ton in the desert.  Merchant skills down.  Assassin skills down.  Burglary skills down.  Blah blah blah.

You want to spend all your time practicing desert travel?  Well tough shit...you wasted all that time that you could have spent doing other stuff, like keeping your primary skills up to date.

[jstorrie]

Tamarin, that is already covered by skills not going up.

I don't see any reason for skills to detoriate over time, unless characters are going senile?

[Tamarin]

Sure, but I'm of the mind that if you aren't practicing your skills on a regular basis, that they should actually diminish to a point.  I know the code doesn't account for this, yet it's a fully real element of skill mastery.

That warrior, once he has frigging mastered every conceivable battle skill, won't realistically maintain that level of prowess if he suddenly decides that he wants to learn to navigate the wastes.  

In terms of mechanics, he will maintain those levels, since the code doesn't account for lack of practice.  This, to me, is essentially the difference between rangers and other classes in terms of the storm navigation abilities.  They aren't crazy stupid fighters.  They can't craft a lot of stuff.  They're not the best at sneaking through cities.  All these things account for the time that's spent learning how to pass through a storm without getting lost.

Now of course, the argument against that is that the class doesn't designate profession.  Well, I'm sorry but you can't use that logic to give non-rangers the navigation skill while neglecting the fact that other things would suffer.  Navigating through a storm is, to me, about a lot more than just the storm.  It's about the terrain.  It's about the other things that live in that terrain, and how to avoid them (or use them to your advantage).  It's about a nascent familiarity with the physical, natural world.

Until the code is more dynamic to blurr the lines between classes and allow characters to do anything given time...I'm sorry.  Keep ranger skill to rangers only.

[Tamarin]

Furthermore...

I imagine that a lot of you are proponents of the school of thought that says certain parts of the world are not harsh and gritty enough.  Yet you want to make storms less dangerous by extending the ability to navigate them to classes beyond rangers?

Give me a break.  Honestly.

My suggestion:

Make medium level storms, which currently anyone can walk through, accessible only to rangers.

Make the crazy, blinding storms accessible to no one, including rangers.

[amoeba]

Make the crazy, blinding storms accessible to no one, including rangers.

Why?  No seriously, what does this achive other than give the "arm is not hash enough" types a warm and fuzzy?

[Tamarin]

Because it would remove the invulnerability that rangers currently enjoy in all storm scenarios (movementally speaking), yet it still keeps storms dangerous to the average zalanthan.

Another alternative would be to not force players into randomized movements, but instead make it somewhat like the drunk code, or the stubborn barbarian kank code.

Code Select Expand

A dune [NESW]
A storm rages here.  To the east is a city.

>east
You try to go east, but the storm prevents you from doing that.

>east

The city [NESW]
Yay!  You made it out of the sandstorm, which is to the west

[RunningMountain]

I'd like a more realistic system for seeing sandstorms coming and going.

I posted a real sandstorm up here once from Iraq or some shit, and it took like 10 minutes just to get to the guy who was filming it. When it got there it was nasty and you coudn't see anything, but he had plenty of time to go, oh shit, look at that sandstorm coming.

-R

[Tamarin]

I'll concur with that.  I'd like to see a much more organic sandstorm code, with very obvious echoes that tell you a storm is coming, where it is coming from, the severity of the storm, and a rough guage of how long before it gets there.  These echoes should be plainly obvious, though maybe rangers would be able to estimate the time before arrival better than other classes.  It also should sweep room by room, rather than over a whole zone.  Hopefully the recent ginka upgrades would make this more feasible?

[Sir Diealot]

Honestly, though, RM?  Not to argue, but to seriously discuss.. I agree with the ability to see them coming, but you have to ask.. how fast can you run, and how fast does the sandstorm move?  Can you outrun that giant blob of sand and wind..   Maybe if you're right next to Tuluk...  But, if you see it and you're in the middle of the Tablelands.. A ranger, now, can spam-walk to safety..  But, in reality, he'd get maybe a room (an entire league)  Away, before it caugh up to him.  So its really hard to keep sandstorms visible, and keep twinking from running rampant.

[RunningMountain]

Well Sir. The problem is you can walk right into a sandstorm. They tend to not move and stay in one area. If they slowly (over the span of 5 RL minutes per room) moved so you could sit and hunker down for 10 RL (approx 1 hour in game) minutes until it passes. Instead of waiting a RL hour or longer, it might not warrant as much attention as it has thus far by players.

-R

[Delirium]

>weather <direction>

Problem solved.

[Sir Diealot]

Quite a good system, RM.

And, Tamarin, weather-direction is annoying to have to type every single time you take a step.  I'm not -lazy-, but I can definitely see how that would get annoying after the first week or so of play.

[RunningMountain]

>weather <direction>

Problem solved.

Yeah it's so fun to do that every single room. If I could watch sky while I rode and got a message that a storm was raging far to the east then I would avoid riding that direction.

Gotta realize the desert dunes aren't that huge, and the horizons in most areas are easily visible and open to view.

[Sir Diealot]

watch <sky> would rule..  And solve all problems.  It takes up the watch 'slot'.. but you can still do just about anything else.  So, keep an eye on that elf.. or the weather.

[path]

I just wanted to say my piece, so here it be.

Yar.

Desert dwellers be fun says I, but the fun be in the difficulty, not in the badass facter. Living in the desert will show ye who the boss is. The desert, says I. And that's the way that things should be.

I voted 'no', because if the storm be blinding, ye should be wary of losing yer smooshy-soft eyeballs.

[jhunter]

I'll concur with that.  I'd like to see a much more organic sandstorm code, with very obvious echoes that tell you a storm is coming, where it is coming from, the severity of the storm, and a rough guage of how long before it gets there.  These echoes should be plainly obvious, though maybe rangers would be able to estimate the time before arrival better than other classes.  It also should sweep room by room, rather than over a whole zone.  Hopefully the recent ginka upgrades would make this more feasible?

I totally agree with this. It should be obvious when a sandstorm is coming long before it reaches you.

And I also agree with the sentiment about using "weather <direction>" it's a real OOC pain in the fucking ass to have to use it every single room in order to keep from walking into a sandstorm that you should be able to easily see anyway.  :roll:

[Wykydtronn]

I just wanted to say my piece, so here it be.

Yar.

Desert dwellers be fun says I, but the fun be in the difficulty, not in the badass facter. Living in the desert will show ye who the boss is. The desert, says I. And that's the way that things should be.

I voted 'no', because if the storm be blinding, ye should be wary of losing yer smooshy-soft eyeballs.

I thought the poll was just about the skill... not what type of sand storm the skill can be used.

In that case, making sand storm navigation a skill makes the desert for rangers a little harsher.  Which I wouldn't mind seeing.

[Bebop]

Once again the staff position on this is that the code is fine as is.  Rangers having this ability provides needed interaction between characters.  Find a ranger and make buds, he'll save you if you want to go in the desert.

What he said.  This is not used enough, instead of so many complaining that they can't do this and that in the wilderness make friends with a ranger.  I'd like to be able to bash and kick and all of those cool combat skills with my ranger, but I can't!  Rangers belong in the desert, they are a guild that is inately keen in this area.

If I want something fancy, or specially made, I go to a merchant, if I want some fighting power behind my group, I got to a warrior, if I want something sneaky arranged there are guilds for that.   Rangers are for the outdoors.  If you are not a ranger, you do not belong in sandstorms, you don't belong outdoors by yourself unless you think you can survive with the skills you have.  If you don't think you can survive with the skills you have, then here is an idea, don't go without a ranger!  You can't have your cake and eat it too.  Change based on the game, don't expect the game to change for you, just because you want to be able to go outside and be all self-reliant out there even though that's not the guild that you picked.

Sandstorms are designed to kill you if you don't know what you're doing.  And if you're not a ranger, you're going to get lost and they will indeed KILL you.  Don't complain about it, take some precaution, treat the game world by the reality that is true to the coded laws to the game.  They are not earth laws they are Zalanthan laws.  And Zalanthan rangers are able to find their way out of blinding sands by their innate sense of direction and how they are accustomed to hazardous desert travel.  It adds up.  Sometimes the winds pick up and you are screwed, that's the weather for you.  Go at your own risk.

I am personally tired of seeing people trying to make the game world less harsh so it is easy on their characters.  The game is easy enough if you use some common sense.  Sometimes you take risks, sometimes you don't.  And alot of the RP involves the desert, people go out with wagons like it's nothing, people don't want to get lost in sandstorms, they want to be able to magickally tell easier when a sandstorm is coming.  It's Zalanthas.  Part of the harsh reality of it, is that you live on a desert planet for the most part and the terrain if not the creatures who have adapted to it, will kill you.

Navigating through the desert is not a skill, it's something innate by the kind of character you choose to play just as innate as a magicker's element is within them, and a warriors potential to fight or a half-elf's connection with animals.  That's just the way the code works and thusly that's just the way the Zalanthan world works.

Take some precaution when you go out.  If you're going on a trip don't act like oh I'm just going for a short ride OOC, IC plan, take some extra food, a tent, water if you're going to be some where you will be at a strong risk for a blinding sandstorm.  Best of all, hire a ranger... a guide someone who can assist you in battle (maybe) If need be and guide you through terrain that your character may no nothing about, or someone who just is simply more used to traveling over rough terrain.  Use some preparation but being able to predict a sandstorm, especially if you are not a ranger is just ridiculous.

The only other guilds, I could understand being able to see through storms are magicker guilds like a rukkian or whiran being able to see through the sand and winds.  They are branches of these elements so it is slightly understanable, but that is up to the IMMs and how they see it fit as far as that goes.  But my post is mostly in reponse to other mundane character's abilities to navigate through storms.

[RunningMountain]

Rangers can kick via subguild, Bebop. They can also subdue via subguild. Heck there is one subguild that gives you both of those skills.

-R

[Bebop]

Rangers can kick via subguild, Bebop. They can also subdue via subguild. Heck there is one subguild that gives you both of those skills.

-R

I know that but the point I'm trying to make, is that unlike warriors they are not going to be as adept at fighting people or half as quickly in an inate way like warriors, and bash and starting out with some other skills like perry a ranger is not going to have.

[RunningMountain]

I understand what you're saying. I'm just saying that rangers are probably more dangerous, in my opinion anyways. Especially outdoors. I just wanted to see how many people thought it would be cool for navigating to be a skill, but it's obviously not going to happen and the threads been derailed a lot into other tangeants and stuff.