Serjeant with a J

[The Lonely Hunter]

Just to chime in with a quick comment...

The K at the end of magick shows what type it is. Magic is like pulling a rabbit out of a hat or sleight of hand. Magick is the art of causing change in conformity with will (for a quick definition).

I understand your point, but in this situation it denotes two different things in its written form. In its spoken form, you could spell it majic for all I care

[spawnloser]

You know what?  I don't care that people think it silly.  Vendyra is awesome and anyone who doesn't spell it 'Serjeant' in honor of her, well, you suck.  I mean, you're like the kid-on-the-playground-that-kicks-gravel-sand-and-dust-at-the-other-kids-just-because kind of suck.

[flurry]

I am not sure if there is anything as "game-wide standard". And I am honestly not even sure if I would like to see some. Lot of Houses have different names of ranks. Why would that be wrong? Just because this one is only 'a little bit different' than title of rank used in most of other organizations?

I meant a standard for spelling.  Different houses having different ranking systems is perfectly fine for me.  And yes, there are game-wide standards for spelling as evidenced by the style sheet.
 

I believe there is IC reason for this slight difference - maybe not wide known and official, but there is. If you do not like it, there is always possibility to try to change it IG.

If there's an IC reason for it, wonderful.  I'm just giving my knee-jerk reaction as someone who was thoroughly unfamiliar with this debate a few hours ago.

[Morfeus]

I meant I am glad there is nothing as "standard" for House ranks (and its spelling). Imagine possibilities!  :twisted:

[flurry]

Okay - understood, then.  I just meant that if it's purely a cosmetic difference, I wonder if it causes more confusion than anything else.

[Manhattan]

I also hate the "j" in Sergeant. I think it looks stupid.

i agree with ck here. serjeant looks damn stupid. if there's an ic reason for this, then POST THAT SHIT instead of keeping us in the dark of why it's spelt so stupidly.

[LauraMars]

Me too.

I mean, I second that notion, Manhattan.

[Morfeus]

I also hate the "j" in Sergeant. I think it looks stupid.

i agree with ck here. serjeant looks damn stupid. if there's an ic reason for this, then POST THAT SHIT instead of keeping us in the dark of why it's spelt so stupidly.

If you want to know, find out IC. I am not going to post IC information on GDB just because you are curious.  :twisted:

[Jherlen]

It's because House Winrothol is secretly funded by France. DOWN WITH FRENCHIES.

No, seriously, if anyone tried to correct a PC of mine over this in game, I'd laugh.

[Packersfan]

Until somebody gives me a legitimate phonetic pronounciation of Serjeant while omitting a thick French twist on the word I will not honor it. Armageddon is not the French Riviera.

[Anonymous]

The K at the end of magick shows what type it is. Magic is like pulling a rabbit out of a hat or sleight of hand. Magick is the art of causing change in conformity with will (for a quick definition).

Not that this has anything to do with anything but that's actually a big misconception amongst the "Neo-Pagan" world.  So-called modern Paganism (which bears little to no resemblance to its original form, particularly the commercialised McReligion Wicca) took the use of the word magic with a 'K' from Aleister Crowley as a means of differentiating themselves from pulling rabbits out of hats, as you describe.  The word and the spelling, itself, has no historical basis in terms of comparing magic tricks with forces of nature and all that.  In Shakespearean times and prior the word was, indeed, spelled with a 'K', but that wasn't to demonstrate any sort of difference in meaning.

Moreover, the spelling in Armageddon MUD has no relation to the fact that Modern Paganism spells it the same way.

[Pantoufle]

That last one was me.

[Cale_Knight]

"Has anyone seen the sergeant around lately?"

"Serjeant."

"Right. The sergeant. Anyone seen him?"

"That's serjeant."

"Right. Him. Where is he?"

"No, he's the serjeant."

"Krath, I know that."

"No, you said he's the sergeant. He's not. He's the serjeant."

"..."

---

That's pretty much how the conversation would go with one of my characters.

[spawnloser]

Hey, it's spelled (and thus pronounced in game) as 'Serjeant.'  Have your characters say it any way they want.  Don't expect Winrothol's to have any respect for you...just as they wouldn't have respect for anyone else that speaks in an undeducated and lowbrow manner, though they may conceal it.  If you work for Winrothol, you'd better start spelling it right when your character is talking in game.

Personally, I don't care why it's spelled that way.  I don't care that many of you think it's stupid.  I do find it amusing that you care so much about that one simple letter that you're going to argue with someone on the GDB who simply thought to be nice and inform/remind others of mistakes being made.

Really, many of the people that are arguing against the spelling of 'Serjeant' would probably be the same people to get all itchy if I was to, from now on, start spelling words like Borsale, Toolluk, Lure's, Captin, etc... It doesn't matter that you think it's stupid (as many n00bs will tell you, spelling things at all is stupid, why not use 'u' ?), that's the way it is.  It's in the documentation.  Simple.  Done.

[Yokunama]

This all seems kind of redundant to me.  As well as confusion to newbs.  Sergeant Serjeant my name IRL is Ginger, Jinger Ginger... same difference as long as there's no spelling involved.

I was confused when I first saw it. After a few moments of thinking, I thought it was the work of the player pouring on their accent, and thought nothing more of it.

[Moofassa]

If someone tried to correct me, I'd say "That's what  I said."

Some people pronounce words differently. I think this is an abhorrently ridiculous little tid bit.

There is no way, any sort of spelling should interefere with IC circumstances.

I'm sorry Spawnloser, but if I was disrepsected by a winrothol for using a g instead of a j, i would chuckle, and lose respect for that player.

Edited to add: Yes it's in the documentation, but accents have alot to do with the game IC. If I say sergeant, and you say sarjeant, there would be little no difference. This is so dumb.

[Larrath]

You say Serjeant, I say shut up.

[Armaddict]

Spawnloser already said it.

This was dealt with in the past.  It's Serjeant.  It is pronounced differently in game.  If you're curious as to why it's different, then ask your superiors.  If they don't know, they can ask theirs.

If you want to say 'It's stupid so I refuse to do it', then you can refuse to do all the other things in the clan documentation as well.  And then you can refuse to follow the theme of the game.  Then you can refuse to play altogether.

Man, all the criticism and agro over a moot point reminds me of some of my threads.  :shock:

[ArmWindworn]

I've always thought of it as being pronounced sort of frenchie..like.. I have no idea how to phonetically spell the sound. Sort of like a zsha sound. Sarzshaunt.

Wait wait.. like Jean Claude Van Damm or however his name is spelled. Instead of being a hard G like Gene, it's a zshaun sound.

He's Dutch

[Cale_Knight]

Alright, so I dug up a passage I recalled from an essay by E.B. White, who is one of the finest writers America ever managed to produce. Here's something he wrote:

Now, it happens that I pronounce "office" offis. And I pronounce "hence" hentz, and I even pronounce "of" uv. Therefore, I infer that Nasby's character is supposed not to be speaking but to be writing. Yet in either event, justification for this perversion of the language is lacking; for if the character is speaking, the queer spelling is unnecessary, since the pronunciation is almost indistinguishable from the natural or ordinary pronunciation, and if the character is writing, the spelling is most unlikely. Who ever wrote "uv" for "of?" Nobody. Anyone who knows how to write at all knows how to spell a simple word like "of." If you can't spell "of" you wouldn't be able to spell anything and wouldn't be attempting to set words to paper - much less words like "solissitood." A person who can't spell "of" is illiterate, and the only time such a person attempts to write anything down is in a great crisis. He doesn't write political essays or diaries or letters or satirical paragraphs.

Even if "sergeant" in Winrothol does have a slightly different pronunciation, it's not justification to change the spelling just to be confusing. It's already a "j" sound. The Winrothol documentation could easily say something like "in the military ranks of Winrothol, "sergeant" is spoken with a more pronounced "j" sound than elsewhere." There's absolutely no reason to force a spelling change.

But beyond that, this thread is exactly why these forums are so crappy for newbies. Look at what's here. Some anonymous player posts about a nitpicky little thing, and then when players ask what it's all about, people start shouting from the rafters how it's some kind of in-game secret and you shouldn't even be asking.

[Armaddict]

The different spelling shows that it is pronounced differently, not how it is being pronounced.

It sets the rank apart from a 'sergeant'.  It may be roughly the same, but the different spelling shows that it is, in fact, something unique about the clan.  Once again, if you want to know why it is, question the superiors.

If this isn't even your clan, I don't think it affects you much either way.

[Cale_Knight]

The different spelling shows that it is pronounced differently, not how it is being pronounced.

No it doesn't. It shows that it is misspelled.

Look, we're playing a text-based game here. Text is our only means of communication. And you write out "serjeant" you are not communicating a different pronunciation. You are communicating a spelling error.

That's it. Just a spelling error.

I also played in Winrothol for a while and don't remember anyone calling the Sergeant a Serjeant. And if they had, I never would have thought of it as anything but a typo. I promise you that's what 99% of all players will ever do.

Nobody will ever say, "Huh. Serjeant. I bet there's a slightly stronger "j" sound there, but not quite enough to justify a phonetic difference in the spelling."

They'll say. "Huh. That guy doesn't know how to spell "sergeant."

[Morfeus]

The different spelling shows that it is pronounced differently, not how it is being pronounced.

No it doesn't. It shows that it is misspelled.

No. It shows that it is different than "Sergeant". That is all. It is not a mistake. It is IG name of IG rank and with IG reason for this spelling. I can understand that you, as a player, do not like it. But please, try to accept there might be some things IG which are simply different from real - and that you do not have to actually like them. Do you hate the word? Make a char and change the name of rank ICly.

[Fragmented]

Cale Knight: Look, we're playing a text-based game here. Text is our only means of communication.

Exactly. Text is our only means of communication. And so instead of us being able to pronounce the difference for you between Sergeant and Serjeant, we must -spell- the difference.

[Maybe42or54]

I think it is one of those things which come to this. If it is trying to be the normal subtle difference that is Tuluk, it should just get a new name. If that doesn't work, then I won't care really. The only way I can think of on how it is pronounced, is with a softer mid section than Sergeant. More slurred.