World Interaction - 2 of 4 (Merchant Houses)

[jhunter]

How safe and how boring.

Exactly. I think you are right on the money as far as this aspect of the game goes. It's just not as good as it used to be. Before it used to create more opportunities for the roleplaying of pcs in these merchant houses doing their jobs, taking some risks, gettting involved in and causing conflicts. They helped "spread the wealth" in more ways than one.

[Anonymous]

To cringe from it and feel as if that player would be swamped almost feels cowardly

What an unfair comment. You may enjoy being barraged by twenty requests for that 100 sid sword, but not everyone does. When I played a merchant I spent 70% of my time either taking orders for the obsidian sword that was curved at the end and not straight. Or answering an enquiry about where that sword was, or when it would be delivered, or tracking someone down to deliver it.

Part of the job sure, but it felt exactly like that, it wasn't great RP, it wasn't political interaction, it was getting other pcs some cool stuff. If you have too much ground to cover it turns into work, and I come here to relax, not carry on my 40 hour week.

Personally, I think you make some massive generalisations with this thread. Having played in more than one merchant house recently I don't think that every house is exactly the same.  If there was any 'division' it was still very co-operative and I experienced both travel to other city states and transfers of a longer nature.

Also, I'd hate to see everyone disregard the origins of someone just because they happen to be in a merchant clan. It's perfectly valid for people to react to these and perfectly valid for clans to make IC moves to counter them.

[Rindan]

The thing to keep in mind with merchant houses is that they are little cultures in themselves.  Once you join a merchant house, especially if you join for life, you really change citizenship.  Someone who has joined House Kurac is a Kuraci before they are a citizen of Tuluk or Allanak.  The longer you are in a merchant house, the more you are culturally a merchant house employee above and beyond a citizen of either city state.

I think the accent code makes too fine of a distinction.  A possible solution would be to give merchant houses their own unique accent.  Merchant house family members should, in my opinion, automatically have a unique accent.  A Kuraci house member should have a Kuraci accent as one of their accent options.  These are a group of people with a rich history that exists between all powers in the world.  The way they speak should reflect this.  The way a Kuraci family member speaks is probably strongly influenced by their history, their position in the center of the world, and the many different cultures that roll through.  The same could be said about Salarri and Kadians.  They both are people that are not from Allanak or Tuluk in particular.  They are their own people with their own identity.

The way I would suggest doing it so to make it so that anyone employed in a merchant house for a IC year or longer gets their house accent from the virtual exposure of a merchant house's day to day running.  Merchants in particular would be encouraged to use this accent.  Your nasty Kuraci Red Storm mercenary might still normally speak in a think southern accent most of the time, but throw him in front of a Tuluki Templar and he will probably start speaking with the best Kuraci accent he can muster.

A unique accent would do many things.  It would be a simple way to declaring allegiance to their merchant house.  If you talk to someone using a merchant house accent, you know where they stand.  It would also make a northerner able to easily deal with a southerner by blurring where he is from.  It drives home to the customer that these people members of their own unique culture.  For the merchant houses, it is also a tool to help drive into their employees that they are House members first and foremost, and not true citizens of a city state.

[marko]

A unique accent would do many things.  It would be a simple way to declaring allegiance to their merchant house.  If you talk to someone using a merchant house accent, you know where they stand.  It would also make a northerner able to easily deal with a southerner by blurring where he is from.  It drives home to the customer that these people members of their own unique culture.  For the merchant houses, it is also a tool to help drive into their employees that they are House members first and foremost, and not true citizens of a city state.

I'm not certain that the merchant houses are isolated enough to develop their own unique accents.  Merchants already speak cavilish - so perhaps some sort of cavilish based accent that is universal to all merchants.  But, instead, I'd rather see House Merchants taught as part of their studies both the northern and the southern accent.

I think this is just something that hasn't caught up to the recent code update and thus should be added in for House merchants.  Part of a merchant family member's upbrining would be how to speak the local dialects of where they are doing business.  As such, no family member merchant would ever speak the wrong accent unless it's a calculated insult or they are slipping back to whichever accent is more natural to them.

I don't really like the idea of merchant house accents - 'cause the moment you do that you may as well put in noble house accents and then give all clans their own accents (the muscular man says, in byn-accented sirihish...)  

Going off on a tangent - This is a seperate issue to talk about I think but I'll cover it briefly just 'cause it's 4am for me and I'm dead tired.

As for being a member of the Merchant House first and City State second... well, that's getting into tricky territory that may be at odds with how the authorities of each city state views it.   An Allanaki is an Allanaki even if he joins Salarr - that doesn't make him Salarri.  Now, a Salarri family member is a Salarri family member and that's slightly different.  

The merchant houses aren't immune to the laws of the cities they are operating in.  If a merchant house member commits an act of treason it is still an act of treason.  In other words, they are judged by their citizenship by the authorities.  Special dispensation (such that it is) may be granted to blooded family and adopted merchants - but I wouldn't suggest relying on that.

[Kuraci Kank]

Though I don't always agree with LOD's posts or all of his points, I do generally agree that more interaction between the PCs of the gameworld can only be a good thing, whether or not it is a good thing for the PCs themselves.

I, too, wish that Luir's would more often be used as a neutral hub for meeting and trading.  This isn't because of a lack of activity in Luir's (far from it), or necessarily from clan bias, it is because it only makes sense.  Luir's is the center of the Known World, and one of the few - if not the only - place(s) that can claim to be a melting pot of cultures.  It is the place to go if you want to find something or someone. If you look at the laws, you can see that all of them are geared toward making trade and business as smooth and as profitable as possible, so long as you respect Kuraci hospitality.

As to the Merchant Houses themselves travelling more often, from a personal standpoint I can say there have been times when I and whole groups of people under me have rarely been in the same place for more than a few RL days. It's great for a while, but it does get very hectic if it's on a constant, neverending basis.  The point someone brought up about it being ICly (and in some ways, OOCly) non-viable for a single PC to be in charge of business both north, central, AND south is a good one.

In a more limited form, travel is great.  I would not be opposed to seeing the merchants and Agents, and their employees, of the three great Merchant Houses get "rotated" on a monthly basis.  That's every two weeks - a convenient timetable for roleplaying the transportation of goods and people across the known world.  It's enough time to make contacts and develop relationships, take orders and give them, yet short enough that if business is slow or things are boring, your misery is fleeting.

It would, as well, bring about more of that "conflict" that Armageddon so thrives on, by virtue of having northern employees down south, and southern employees up north.  I don't think that the north should be easier on southerners or the southerners easier on northerners just because they happen to see plenty of them passing through - however, how much influence or rank that "foreigner" has in their House, and in society as a whole, should probably be considered.


In response to the leadership derail:

OOCly, I think the most important thing a leader can do is delegate.

ICly, you can delegate whether you are a bad leader or a good leader.  Being a bad leader does not mean you can't keep your men busy - it means (for example) you keep them busy being annoyed at how lazy you are and having to pull all your slack.

I bring that up because of the tangent in this thread about leaders being insanely busy people, on an IC and OOC level.  This is very true.  There is always a certain amount of OOC dedication you have to take with you into a leadership role, but it should never feel like work instead of a game.  If it does, then I suggest you look at how you are approaching the situation.

Is your character all job, or do they have interests and goals beyond selling the next load of gear or whacking the next recruit in the sparring ring?  Delegate, delegate, delegate.  Get other people doing your job for you, and you will have more time to have your fun and the people under you will probably be having fun too.  Fun, because they now have Things To Do, that have reason and a purpose (even if they don't know those reasons or purposes).

After all, from an OOC standpoint, the goal isn't whether or not the job gets done exactly the way you wanted it to be.  It creates more opportunities for roleplay if you roll with the good AND the bad possibilities and allow for mistakes to happen.  Who knows, you might luck on a great lackey for a while, and then things can really get rolling.  Teamwork rocks.


In response to the accent derail:

I've personally thought that, being as they usually live or stay for long periods of time in the center of the world, blood Kurac should have either a tribal accent or a unique accent of their own, and PCs growing up in Luir's Outpost (pointing to Luir's when they start the character) should also have an accent different from that of the city-states. Possibly 'central'-accented sirihish.

The place is simply a melting pot of cultures, many of them heavily tribal, and the rest from Tuluk or Allanak.  To my mind, someone growing up there would not naturally speak in a pure northern accent.  They would speak in a mixed combination of lingo that is all their own.

Though, I admit it would just be plain fun to see:

Code Select Expand

Pumping a fist in the air, the dusty soldier exclaims, in kuraci-accented sirhish:
   "For the Eclipse!"

[Rindan]

I'm not certain that the merchant houses are isolated enough to develop their own unique accents.  Merchants already speak cavilish - so perhaps some sort of cavilish based accent that is universal to all merchants.  But, instead, I'd rather see House Merchants taught as part of their studies both the northern and the southern accent.

I think an accent is something they could have intentionally developed, especially the Kuraci.  There are plenty of cases where accents are developed despite close proximity to other accents.  There are accents that have been developed intentionally in the real world.  For example, I grew up in a town in Maine where you could count the number of black people living there on two hands.  Despite this, we had kids that talked like they were urban blacks simply because they chose to and felt they identified with that culture.  We had other kids that would pour on a thick Maine accent even though it was rare in our area because they were red necks and proud of it.  Hell, when I used to go up to northern Maine to visit relatives, my father's normal light northeastern accent suddenly turned into a thick Maine accent around his family.

It is pretty trivial to create and hold onto an accent if you intentionally set out to do it.  I could easily see each merchant house having its own accent that differentiates based upon their ancient roots.  I could see them intentionally preserving this accent as a method of helping to retain their identity and keep themselves outside of north/south bias.

I don't really like the idea of merchant house accents - 'cause the moment you do that you may as well put in noble house accents and then give all clans their own accents (the muscular man says, in byn-accented sirihish...)  

I imagine that the accent noble's use probably determines the accent everyone uses.  Commoners want to imitate nobility.  I doubt they could keep a unique accent if they tried.  Further, they have no real reason to do so.  Their identity is Allanaki first and foremost.

As for being a member of the Merchant House first and City State second... well, that's getting into tricky territory that may be at odds with how the authorities of each city state views it.   An Allanaki is an Allanaki even if he joins Salarr - that doesn't make him Salarri.  Now, a Salarri family member is a Salarri family member and that's slightly different.  

The merchant houses aren't immune to the laws of the cities they are operating in.  If a merchant house member commits an act of treason it is still an act of treason.  In other words, they are judged by their citizenship by the authorities.  Special dispensation (such that it is) may be granted to blooded family and adopted merchants - but I wouldn't suggest relying on that.

House members are House members first and citizens second.  If a 'nakkie born Kuraci is told to go break an Allanaki law, he will go break an Allanaki law.  If he is told to go help the Tuluk, he will go help Tuluk.  Even the authorities take a new view and treat house members differently.  A Kuraci picked up for smuggling in Allanak is treated different from a 'rinther smuggling spice in Allanak.

Now, a southern Kuraci might be treated differently in Allanak then a northern Kuraci, but both are treated different because they are Kuraci.  Merchant House members are viewed with a mixture of suspicion and caution regardless if they are citizens or not.  They are not considered "normal" loyal citizens who are just doing their job.  They are considered to be loyal to their house first, and citizens second.  The Templerate might want them to be citizens first and house members first, but that isn't the reality of the matter.  Being an Allanaki stone carver is not the same as being an Allanaki Kuraci.  The stone carver is going to be viewed as a normal citizen.  The Kuraci is going to viewed as someone who is loyal to Kuraci first and foremost.  Merchant Houses would be wise to encourage this sort of division as it keeps their employees loyal and less likely to act as spies for a city state.

[Angela Christine]

If not some sort of "central" accent, then most merchant house family members should probably start with both accents.  A Kadian born in Allanak is going to have aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. and other close family members that were born in Tuluk.  Children are good at learning accents, it would make perfect sense to make sure that they are exposed to as many languages and accents as possible when young, and very little sense to keep the children segregated and restricted.  If you segregate your family into northern and southern sections, then the almost unavoidable consequence is going to be rifts between the divisions, and eventually the House eventually splitting into two or more completely independant Houses.

I, too, wish that Luir's would more often be used as a neutral hub for meeting and trading.  This isn't because of a lack of activity in Luir's (far from it), or necessarily from clan bias, it is because it only makes sense.  Luir's is the center of the Known World, and one of the few - if not the only - place(s) that can claim to be a melting pot of cultures.  It is the place to go if you want to find something or someone. If you look at the laws, you can see that all of them are geared toward making trade and business as smooth and as profitable as possible, so long as you respect Kuraci hospitality.  

But if you don't go to the other city, how do you make trade contacts there?  The example of merchants meeting up to trade shells for logs doesn't work unless they know eachother, and arrange to be in Luirs at the same time.  

The alternatives don't work so well: 1) take your load of logs to Luir's and wait around until someone comes along who wants to trade for or buy them, which could be a very long wait,  or 2) sell your logs to NPC merchants or Kuraci PCs, which wouldn't be nearly as profitable because the NPC or Kuraci merchants will take a huge cut.  You might be able to directly trade your logs for an equal weight in obsidian (which you can sell at home for twice what the logs were worth at home) but if you sell your logs and then buy obsidian you are probably going to go home with only 1/4 as much obsidan, and no profit at all.  The third option is take your load to the other city state yourself, a dangerous prospect, with the posibility of even higher profit but also the chance huge fines, taxes or worse from the foriegn government (not to mention unfriendly local thugs).



Angela Christine

[LoD]

Part of the job sure, but it felt exactly like that, it wasn't great RP, it wasn't political interaction, it was getting other pcs some cool stuff. If you have too much ground to cover it turns into work, and I come here to relax, not carry on my 40 hour week.

If you are here to relax, in all sincerity, don't assume a leadership role.  This MUD is a game, and games are about having fun.  Armageddon can be a whole lot more than a game, however, because of how meaningful and well developed the story can become.  Leadership roles are valuable and incredible vehicles through which you can write entire chapters, but it comes at a cost of time, effort and sometimes, yes, work.  As a leader, you inherently have groups of people that depend upon you for direction, payment, management and RP.  If you are a responsible person, then you will feel an obligation and desire to meet their needs because you are the one in charge.

Is it sometimes like work?  You bet.  It has to be if you're going to be able to contact everyone, pay everyone, meet with everyone wanting to speak with you and still manage to find a little time for your own fun.  But there are great rewards to the characters and players that can manage these positions.  You can accomplish great things.  You can provide a lot of direction and a platform upon which many other players can base their play.  It takes a strong role as well as a lot of work, but it isn't "fair" to other players if you assume a leadership role that comes with good and bad, and don't want to deal with the bad.

Personally, I think you make some massive generalisations with this thread. Having played in more than one merchant house recently I don't think that every house is exactly the same.  If there was any 'division' it was still very co-operative and I experienced both travel to other city states and transfers of a longer nature.

I don't know that I would label any generalizations massive.  I simply know how things were at one time, and how I perceive them now.  And they are different.  And they are, IMHO, worse with regards to this topic.  

When I travelled with my merchant, making money, getting into plots, providing sources of work for my employees, I kept a log of all of the people that I had hired over the period of playing him, and I also kept track of the largest my clan became while playing.

When I retired, I'd hired over 350+ characters.  At the height of my clan's operation, there were 37 active members (meaning those logging in at least once a week).  This is the kind of potential that you have as a clan leader to affect and interact with the game if you so choose.  People gravitate toward good leadership, because that is where the fun is happening.  You'll see it time after time because the people who just want to relax and have fun are the followers that enjoy a good leader assuming the mantle of the "work" part of the game and simply give them the "fun" part they want.

There's a lot of potential out there for people to get involved, but the north-south division keeps a lot of that reigned in, and it's diappointing.

-LoD

[Intrepid]

I didn't agree completely about the tribals, but I do agree about this
merchant's issue.  When you join a merchant house, you should be
considered a neutral that could swing either way, regardless of where
you happened to be born.  Being the pendulum could create some great
intrigue...now if only more nobles could seek to curry favor with people
lower than them on the food chain, rather than alienate merchants and
potentially turn an entire house against them.

Also, I rather miss seeing merchants in Allanak.

[Cuusardo]

About having relatives in one city or the other, merchant house families are very big, from what I've been told.  You might not even know how far down the line your ancestor in common was.  All you know is that they're your "cousins" and they are Kadius/Salarr/Kurac.

Luir's could serve as a great neutral trading ground, yes, but there would still be biases and slanted deals.  Why?  Because Luir's is owned, run, and policed by Kurac.  What they want, happens.

I think that stricter lines should be made between merchant family members who are there to be merchants, and those who are there to deal with politics.  I've seen Agents who did both, and they were extremely swamped with work due to the fact that everybody needs something from them.

And lastly, the merchant houses are going to have northern and southern divisions no matter what.  Sure, they're "neutral."  They have to be so they can stay in the city-states and continue their business.  Neutrality is very bendable, however.  If the city-states go to war again, Salarr is going to sell weapons and armor to both of them.  Kurac will still sell them desert gear, and spice.  Kadius will still sell them clothes.  However, that doesn't mean that any of them won't secretly side with the other on some issues, or assassinate people in either city, and so on.  Those born in either city will naturally absorb the culture and have opinions based on this.

However, (holy crap, I'm starting to feel like marko and AC posting all this) I don't think that the northern and southern branches of the merchant houses should feel like different clans.  Ultimately, they are all working toward the same goals for their respective Houses.  Of course they're going to have to travel periodically, because there are materials that can be found around one region that you can find in another.  Some agents and merchants are going to have to travel between city states for various reasons.  (That doesn't mean they have to like it.)

[Twilight]

I agree with LoD.

There was a definate shift that happened when the accent code went in.  It, in my mind, drastically impacted the RP environment of the game.  This is one of the things it impacted.  Previously, if you were in the know you might understand that Merchant X was originally from the North and treat them a little different.  If you weren't in the know you had no clue.  It was subtle.

Now you look at the code output and can say, Oh a Northerner.  And then you apply cookie cutter reaction that you do to anyone speaking with a northern accent.  I think this is fine for most situations.  I think this is drastically bad when you start talking about the Merchant Houses.

[X-D]

Currently, using luirs as a hub I think is unlikley because ICly, least with any pc my chars run into, they seem to have poor rep.

As somebody said,

The only problem with Luirs... is all those damn Kuraci.

Many PC's consider luirs too dangerous to stay in and from what I see, the kurac pc's act too high  handed and seem to forget that they are in fact a merchant house, dependant on trade. Most current kurac pc's I see alianate the other pc's that do come through and the outpost even has things on the board to make it worse. Like complaints about people resting mounts instead of stabling them, silly, you want people to use the stables, get your house PCs out there and make people want to stay, have fun and spend sid. The Kurac PC's do not push the houses entertainments and when they do its normaly not in a friendly manner. Myself, I see kurac turning into too much of a mercenary house, least in actions and mindset. When in reality they should be a bit more laidback and fun loving, Hey, they are the house of whores/gambling/spice are they not? Lets face it, if you have to worry at every turn that your PC is gonna offend some kurac guard/officer etc, you sure as fuck are not getting a whore, you might have to take your belt off then. It should be -HARD- to offend a kurac pc, but in practice its easier normaly to offend them then a fucking black robe templar.

Kadius, I've not a clue what they are doing, I see a pc now and again, but thats about it.

Salarr seems to be in some sort of transition or something, though they seem active enough, I do notice a lack of active merchants for some reason.

I do think the merchants and other pcs of all three houses need to get out and try to sell more, push the house goods, specialy the crafted items, I know, from playing crafters that there are many items made by pc's that can be sold for a good price if the pc's outside the house know about them.

[Tamarin]

Ya...I agree with you X-D.   I really don't exactly know what's going on with all three houses, especially Kadius.  My current impressions are as follows:

Salarr: They're around.  Seem to be pretty thin, population wise.

Kadius: Yeah...Kadius needs a jump start.  It's damn near impossible to order anything from Kadius, because they do not (afaik) have a complete list of the Kadian database of items.  Why this is..I don't know.  And so basically, anyone who plays a Kadian merchant gets frustrated out of their minds with not being able to make orders in a decent amount of time.

Kurac: They scare me.  I don't want to go in Luir's.  I don't want to go near Luir's.  I don't even want to particularly go near the Tooth, out of fear of being dragged into the back room by a bunch of Kuraci PCs and beaten to death.

So yeah.

[LoD]

If the city-states go to war again, Salarr is going to sell weapons and armor to both of them.  Kurac will still sell them desert gear, and spice.  Kadius will still sell them clothes.  However, that doesn't mean that any of them won't secretly side with the other on some issues, or assassinate people in either city, and so on.  Those born in either city will naturally absorb the culture and have opinions based on this.

Perhaps.  PC's nowhere near the top of the family food chain may make decisions to help a given city-state secretly with their limited resources and actions, thereby creating the feeling that "House X" aided "City Y", but do you really beleive the actions of that single person were representative of the whole?  Furthermore, do you not believe that due to a lack of players on the southern side of things, virtual units of Kadius were not currying favor with Allanaki concerns during that time to ensure that their presence and ability profit there did not diminish?

Taken from a scene in Braveheart where the Scottish Lords are discussing their negotiations with the English, the father of the most influential Scottish family hears news of a rebellion.  He tells his son to have his lands in the north support the rebellion, while having his lands in the south condemn it.  This is exactly the kind of careful politics that these Great Merchant Houses have played to get where they are now.

Merchant Houses will have long learned how to manipulate the power players of the game world into believing that any disadvantages to having them present in the city-state is outweighed by the advantages that the House brings in as a whole.  Most common with PC merchants, however, is that they are nowhere near that level.  They are a simple unit within a House comprised of hundreds and perhaps thousands of people.

The game is moving more and more away[/i] from a setup that encourages the most varied interaction for all levels of play.  We already have a low player base and we increase the amount of accessible tribes?  We decrease the number of PC's travelling between city-states within the Merchant Houses, which are the easiest clans with which to gain employment and give someone a quick purpose?  

Why not bring up three servers, "Server Tuluk", "Sever Outdoors" and "Server Allanak" and you'll probably be well on your way to where Armageddon seems to be headed with the occasional mystical magickal wyvern dragon sorc ramming his army of "pick-a-creature" through your area while you sit around wondering which 10% of the player base actually gets to participate on how things develop this time.

Simple PC-PC conflicts of interest will provide the most material for potential plots, RP and adventure on a day-to-day basis than anything else.  Basic values of greed, prejudice, racism, jealousy, pride and lust would provide the player base with an infinitely complex and interesting platform upon which to play if it the pieces were encouraged to move in ways that brought these peoples of varied values, interests and wants together.

-LoD

[Halaster]

Might be a slight derail, might not.  I saw someone mention Luir's and how they wish it was actually used more of a central hub than it is.  And I agree, I'd like to see it more like that too.

Personally though, I think the reason that's been so slack is due to the remapping/revamping of the outpost.  It's quite a few more 'steps' to get inside Luir's and park your wagon and get out and do stuff.  It truly is much much easier to just bypass the whole thing.  It used to be easy.. you just drove in the south gate, parked right off the road, then went right out the north gate.  Now it's such a detour, that I've seen people intentionally skipping the outpost because of that.  I know I do.

[Jherlen]

LoD, I'm curious to know how long ago Khann Salarr was alive and what the playerbase numbers were like back then. I'm by no means trying to diminish your accomplishments with him, but I do think that it's clear the game is evolving and launching comparisons too far back might not always be applicable.

My definition of 'hell' is when, as a merchant, you are bombarded with demands and orders from nobles and templars from the moment you log in to the moment you log out. On top of this you must entertain requests from countless PCs for random 300 sid item orders. On top of -that- you need to administrate employees in your clan, which means paying salaries, taking reports, disciplining, and trying to keep your crafting hall somewhat organized.

Having played one of those roles in the past for several months, I know about the duties of leadership and accept the fact that a leader is going to be busy. I'm not afraid of that, nor do I think a busy leader is a bad thing. I do, however, think that being swamped as a leader is a bad thing, and I don't see how one or two PCs in a merchant clan could be enough to satisfy the demands of two templarates, five noble houses, two militias, and general populaces of both cities on their own. Unless you could find players who played about 8 hours a day consistently, and could convince all of them to take leader roles in a merchant house (you'd need at least 6 to have one active Agent and Merchant for each House), I don't see how this would have a hope of working logistically.

Being an active PC merchant in just one city and carrying out all the duties above was a full load of work for me. Luckily I had a little bit of time to focus on my own character and his development - but this was only because I was able to play at around 3 am EST and luckily found a few other players who I could interact with at that time. The rest of the time I was busy enough just running around taking care of everyone demanding orders or pay or whatever that my poor PC could barely sit down. If my clan imms had told me I was expected to start working in -both- cities I don't see how my PC alone would have had the time to get everything done. He would have needed to find an assistant to manage things in the city he wasn't in... and then essentially you're back to the 'northern' and 'southern' employee system again, just with people who might be rotating a lot and confusing everyone.

Again, I do think merchant houses travel a bit more than people realize. I could possibly see some encouragement for them to rotate a bit more, maybe switch cities every IC month or something. But you need to give the poor PCs time to settle in to a city, establish contacts and get a rhythm going. I don't think expecting them to travel between Allanak and Tuluk a few times a week at the beck and call of people in both cities is feasible.

[jhunter]

Good point. I hadn't actually thought of that but now that you mention it Halaster I've noticed it too. People seem to want to just pass through instead of hanging about the outpost as much as they used to before the rebuilding.

[Agent_137]

Perhaps Kurac should just destroy Salarr and Kadius. I mean, kurac does a lot of movement between the cities, as I've seen.

Won't that solve the problem?

[jhunter]

I don't think expecting them to travel between Allanak and Tuluk a few times a week at the beck and call of people in both cities is feasible

It's feasible, I've seen it done back when there was more travelling going on.

[Morgenes]

Just a quick note on the accent discussion, from help accent:

Knowing how to convincingly speak with a foreign accent (i.e. an accent
different from your character's regional accent) is a special ability which
can only be learned by listening to those who speak with the accent better
than your character.  Similar to learning a language, the learning curve is
extremely steep at first, so that one will require a very long time to
finally understand the basics of an accent.

It is possible to learn to speak with another accent.

I personally agree with the poster.  The merchant houses should be playing a greater role in making the world feel more cohesive, and facilitating travel and trade between the cities.

[Marauder Moe]

One thing that many PC merchants never seem to realize is that on Zalanthas you can say no to a common customer.  Special orders should only be for special customers, like nobles, templars, or merchant family members.  If  hunter Amos wants a blackened, jahkal-carved wooden sword of prettiness, tell him to fuck off and stop wasting your valuable time with his unimportant self.  He can go search the shop or go find your non-family junior sub-merchant if you have one.  I believe a simple attitude-change like that would make house merchants a lot less stressful to play.

As for the north-south division, I thought for a time merchant house PCs were required by their houses to serve some time in the opposite city-state.  Perhaps that policy was revoked for IC reasons, though.  I don't know.

[LoD]

LoD, I'm curious to know how long ago Khann Salarr was alive and what the playerbase numbers were like back then. I'm by no means trying to diminish your accomplishments with him, but I do think that it's clear the game is evolving and launching comparisons too far back might not always be applicable.

Others have accomplished many things besides me: Medichi Kadius, Rhydun Kurac, Sargax Kurac.  It's a good point though.  The game has evolved and changed since I last played an active Merchant House PC.  Perhaps it's time to give another one a try.

I -have- played in the recent game as a PC leader with the Byn for about 2 RL years and witnessed the changes then.  One of his goals was the northern Byn compound.  Should there only be a northern Byn and a southern Byn without any of that interaction?  Lord knows our initial presence there so soon after the war provided a LOT of interesting RP for both sides of the fence.  It would be a pity should that interaction been removed in lieu of a more territory-friendly representative.

My definition of 'hell' is when, as a merchant, you are bombarded with demands and orders from nobles and templars from the moment you log in to the moment you log out. On top of this you must entertain requests from countless PCs for random 300 sid item orders. On top of -that- you need to administrate employees in your clan, which means paying salaries, taking reports, disciplining, and keeping the crafting room clean.

I consider these to simply be the mantle of leadership.  Some wear it better than others and deal with the stress and pace of the role more easily.  It's not easy, that's for sure.  There were often nights that I wouldn't want to login, because just logging in was an automatic hour of answering questions and doing things.  But you CAN manage it with proper time management and setting priorities.

Having played one of those roles in the past for several months, I know about the duties of leadership and accept the fact that a leader is going to be busy. I'm not afraid of that, nor do I think a busy leader is a bad thing. I do, however, think that being swamped as a leader is a bad thing, and I don't see how one or two PCs in a merchant clan could be enough to satisfy the demands of two templarates, five noble houses, two militias, and general populaces of both cities on their own.

I played Khann for 3 RL years, so perhaps I simply had more time to adjust to working in that environment and am speaking from the end of that experience rather than the beginning.  I didn't start as a Merchant House employee, however, but as a simple independant merchant buying and selling goods north-south and making my run with 3 kanks.

I'm certainly not advocating that we move to a one-merchant system, but that the merchants who do exist take the opportunity to travel with their employees more than they presently do.  That we do away with the north-south division and simply have merchants doing merchanty things, to whomever seems to have a need.  Special orders were a problem when I was playing as well, and so were the nobles and templars that wanted them, but you managed to get through.

But many of the players will learn to accept what YOU establish as the rules, despite what they threaten.  Learn what the process is and give people realistic goals for when they can expect something from you, then deliver on that promise.  Perhaps the merchant came more naturally to me because I'n a salesman in real life and many of the principles transition into the game.  Maybe not.  Regardless of what it was, there comes a point when you develop a system for yourself that works.  You'll still be busy, but I always find the rewards to be worth the effort.

[marko]

But many of the players will learn to accept what YOU establish as the rules, despite what they threaten.  Learn what the process is and give people realistic goals for when they can expect something from you, then deliver on that promise.  Perhaps the merchant came more naturally to me because I'n a salesman in real life and many of the principles transition into the game.  Maybe not.  Regardless of what it was, there comes a point when you develop a system for yourself that works.  You'll still be busy, but I always find the rewards to be worth the effort.

I felt this was worth repeating.

Basically, for any family member merchants out in the game now - my suggestion to you is to request getting both the northern and southern accents from your imms if you currently do not have them.  I believe that both accents should be given to all blooded family members since it just makes sense to me.  The Houses have the resources to set this up and before accents were in the game - we can assume that's exactly what was going on.

Next, start traveling.

[Halaster]

My definition of 'hell' is when, as a merchant, you are bombarded with demands and orders from nobles and templars from the moment you log in to the moment you log out. On top of this you must entertain requests from countless PCs for random 300 sid item orders. On top of -that- you need to administrate employees in your clan, which means paying salaries, taking reports, disciplining, and keeping the crafting room clean.

I consider these to simply be the mantle of leadership.  Some wear it better than others and deal with the stress and pace of the role more easily.  It's not easy, that's for sure.  There were often nights that I wouldn't want to login, because just logging in was an automatic hour of answering questions and doing things.  But you CAN manage it with proper time management and setting priorities.

Just a point of note, but one big part of the reason we stopped special orders and went to the master crafter system was for this very reason.  PC merchants were overwhealmed with special orders for stuff.  Hopefully some current PC merchants will speak up, but I imagine that a good deal of this has been alleviated with the new way of doing things.

[X-D]

Well, I agree with Halaster on the new revamp of luirs, it does make it more likley you will simply pass through, it also makes Luirs seem as if it -wants- to be more closed off, making no sense since it is supposed to be a trading outpost.

But, my chars don't even do that, they avoid the outpost altogether, and I know -many- others that do the same, my chars never go to the tooth and would be more likley to visit the rinth wearing silk and no weapons, safer. Don't even go to red storm because the kurac influence there is too strong, which also makes no sense to me, one would think the sandlord would not stand for such things, but who knows.

No, if my chars want desert style gear they go to the blackwing outpost, where the elves just try to cheat you. Pretty bad when a bunch of tribal skinnies understand the importance of trade with the world more then a "great" merchant house.