The Inevitable Poll on Karma

[Medena]

As far as the karma system goes, it's generally recognized as being a major problem with the game.

A few people like it. Many dislike it.

I was one of many who took exception to this statement in another thread. So, now I shall be the one to take the plunge and put it up to a poll.  I am pretty curious just where the responses will lie.

As for myself. I like the system because I think it works just fine.

[Folker]

Dont know yet

[moab]

Could be better.
Could be a helluva lot worse.

I think the several objectives of the staff have been met and the results have generally been IG positive.

[Halaster]

As far as the karma system goes, it's generally recognized as being a major problem with the game.

A few people like it. Many dislike it.

I was one of many who took exception to this statement in another thread. So, now I shall be the one to take the plunge and put it up to a poll.  I am pretty curious just where the responses will lie.

As for myself. I like the system because I think it works just fine.

That was obviously written by someone who dislikes it and is trying to make their opinion sound like that of the majority.  I'd be willing to bet they never bothered to ask most of the playerbase, they just made it up on the fly to suit their own purposes.

[Jarod550]

Just FYI,

I recently applied for a special character and was told because of some of my previous forum posts, that they didn't feel I was ready for any special characters...

So don't be opinionated about things on the forums, if you want karma, in fact I shouldn't be making this post now...

Jarod

[Cuusardo]

So don't be opinionated about things on the forums, if you want karma, in fact I shouldn't be making this post now...

I am living proof that you can be opinionated and get karma.

Living until Halaster eats my brainz again.

[moab]

Hey, since we're touting...


I'm living proof you can do stupid things, loose karma and then gain it back again.

[Bogre]

Just FYI,

I recently applied for a special character and was told because of some of my previous forum posts, that they didn't feel I was ready for any special characters...

So don't be opinionated about things on the forums, if you want karma, in fact I shouldn't be making this post now...

Jarod

I don't exactly believe it was your opinions, I believe it was your sarcastic and snide way of writing them in posts that made them not want to accept your application.

[Morrolan]

I don't exactly believe it was your opinions, I believe it was your sarcastic and snide way of writing them in posts that made them not want to accept your application.

I respectfully disagree.  I suspect it was the part where he made it quite clear (and I don't know if it was sarcasm or not) that he doesn't like to play by the rules or take direction.  Karma requires these.  But if being sarcastic prevented Karma, then few on the boards would have any.

Morrolan

[Rindan]

I recently applied for a special character and was told because of some of my previous forum posts, that they didn't feel I was ready for any special characters...

So don't be opinionated about things on the forums, if you want karma, in fact I shouldn't be making this post now...

Jarod

I imagine it has nothing to do with your opinions and more to do with your attitude and presentation.  I am very opinionated and have no problem stating when I completely disagree with others, be they players or admin.  I have had no problems with karma.

[Moofassa]

Karma system is fine. I've never been treated unfairly. Few misunderstandings, but the staff are always more than willing to help correct any problems and deal with ANY issue no matter how minor.

[Cenghiz]

We, turkish players are not capable of typing fluent English. We usually have good imagination but usually it's hard for us to voice it on the MUD.

Still we do try and.... As far as I know at least three Turkish players have 5 karma points.

So karma is given if you RP well and are dependable or at least if you try to do a good job with your RP and are dependable.. Sounds fair to me..

[Agent_137]

The karma system is based on the critical assumption that the staff want what is best for the game as a while, and are right most of the time.

I think that's the case. If it isn't, the karma system is flawed, but then, if it isn't the case, we're fucked on a much greater level and the least of the issues is karma.

[Armaddict]

I am living proof that you can be opinionated and get karma.

I second this.

I've been a horrible player at times.  A lot of the times.  And I've tried to be the best of players most of the time.  Sometimes I lose my temper.  Sometimes I piss people off on the board.  Sometimes I argue with the staff.
Sometimes, I'm just a straight up asshole who's wrong but refuses to admit it since I'm put on the defensive.

I'm an example that karma is not given to 'imm-pets', as some people believe and strongly argue for.  The staff is very fair in distributing it and taking it away.

The system works very well for what it's intended to do, and I have no problems with it whatsoever.

[Agent_137]

oh, to fllow up, i haven't really seen any cases of people deserving karma and not getting it. Maybe it got overlookd and they had to ask for an account review or special app, but I haven't seen any good roleplayers really get fucked by the system.

Though I have heard some inklings of people maybe having more than they deserve. But hey, as long as I get my just deserts, who cares if some one else gets more?

[Larrath]

I think that the karma system is fine.  It's taken me a while to get my earlier karma points, but so far the system gave me nothing to dislike; especially since it's possible to special app or request a review.

[Anonymous]

Just remember that the karma rules are more like guidelines, but its the guide that makes the final nod.

In this line of thinking, the Imms are incredibly fair with what they see. They take into account lots of factors including the whos, the how longs, and the generals of how someone behaves. They also emphazise trust.

Enjoy the game for the game and not for Karma.

[Jarod550]

Just FYI,

I recently applied for a special character and was told because of some of my previous forum posts, that they didn't feel I was ready for any special characters...

So don't be opinionated about things on the forums, if you want karma, in fact I shouldn't be making this post now...

Jarod

I don't exactly believe it was your opinions, I believe it was your sarcastic and snide way of writing them in posts that made them not want to accept your application.

Okay, then I just won't post so much anymore, and just play, then there won't be any snide remarks to read, in fact, this is my last topic I'm posting to.

Jarod

ps.  See you in game

[Armaddict]

Jarod.  Don't think you're being ragged on, even though I realize that seems hard at this point.

The karma-required roles require a certain amount of knowledge of the game, how things work, and how some situations should be run.  I think that what was meant when your application was rejected was that some of your views that were posted showed you were still on the learning curve, and just needed some more time and experience to learn more of the niches of the game, so that when you -do- play the role, you contribute with it the way that role is supposed to contribute.

And yes, I will see you in game.  

[grog]

They gave me a few karma points, and I tend to play short lived nobodies.   I also rarely make a post worth reading.    I think this  game is great with 0 karma, otherwise I wouldn't have kept coming back over the last ten years.

[LauraMars]

Karma is fair, the staff are quite nice, karma can live in this land with no ice.

[LoD]

Karma is nice to see, but it doesn't play a big role in my character creation.

Almost all of my favorite, most long-lived, influential and successful characters have been a non-karma race/class combination.  There are a million potential roles I have yet to play within the starting class/race combinations.

As for Jarod550, you don't have to quit posting.  Just listen to what people are saying and consider it.  In time, you will come around and another player will be making posts like yours to which you will say, "I was just like you, once."

-LoD

[Supreme Allah]

I'm not trying to instigate a revolución, and nor am I complaining, but I do see the negative points of the karma system that as far as I can tell, no one here's seen fit to express.

I think the single biggest problem with it is the fact that it sort of feels like players are being "ranked", and judge themselves (and possibly their peers) based on this 0-8 scale of karma-to-no-karma. I think a lack of karma could undermine a player's confidence in themselves and in this game or its staff simply because their efforts weren't noticed, or possibly because the things they did wrong were just never pointed out to them. This is to be expected; if the staff numbers less then the playerbase, it's unavoidable that they will miss things. To clarify, I am not suggesting the staff and playerbase numbers be equal - I am simply stating fact.

I understand that this is not the true purpose of the karma system, but I'd find it hard to believe that anyone could deny that that's how it is often interpreted. No re-explanation here will change this - again, I know the "actual" purpose of the karma system.

The special app process is fine, but it's also pretty daunting. I shied away from it for a very long time myself because I'm not sure how I feel about having my ability as a roleplayer judged on such an inherently heavy-handed "yes or no", "black or white", "you-can-handle-this or you-cannot-handle-this" scale. This is made more frustrating when one must endure this process with the knowledge that someone with, say, one more karma than themselves could have written, been approved, and been playing the same character within an hour.

I imagine other players feel some of these things as well, though there's a certain fear present (that few or none here will be admitting to) that expressing complaints on the GDB or elsewhere will draw the ire of the staff.

And just so we're clear, I'm not blaming the staff. These are flaws inherent to the system. I do not feel that I, personally, have even been judged unfairly, so don't go there. My opinion on the whole of the karma system is a positive one. I don't think we could do much better, but I do think we could do a little better and create less work for the staff and the playerbase in the process.

Thank you.

-Supreme Allah

Last minute addendum: since I'm criticizing the popular opinion, I foresee someone asking, "Well, YOU do better than our current system then!" Here's my pre-emptive answer:

1. Reduce the number of karma ranks. Hand out karma less to counterbalance.
2. Make more rare, immediately-powerful roles special-app only. (Muls, Sorcerers, Mindbenders, possibly Half-Giant)
3. Simplify the special application process.

i'm tomuch of a newb to know yet so i'm with holding my vote...

[Supreme Allah]

Karma is nice to see, but it doesn't play a big role in my character creation.

Almost all of my favorite, most long-lived, influential and successful characters have been a non-karma race/class combination.  There are a million potential roles I have yet to play within the starting class/race combinations.

-LoD

This is worth repeating. The funnest roles for me, by far, are those which allow for the most player interaction. And those roles are hands-down those which require no karma to play.

-Supreme Allah