PC Slaving - a good thing or as evil as lima beans?

[Naiona]

Before you all PANIC, this is just an idea we are batting around and are looking to see if it is something the players would like to see.

So, my question to you all is:

How do you feel about the idea of PC slavers occasionally going after PC targets?  

If we did (and again..don't panic..we aren't doing this just yet) allow this, there would be a few very strict rules:

1) Any PC captured would have the opportunity to bribe their captors on the spot and walk away for a reasonably inexpensive fee.

2) A PC would have the opportunity to get to the bank or have friends bring money to buy their freedom upon the return to the city.

3) A PC would have the opportunity to choose service by death at the Arena, rather then play out a slavery.

4)A PC would have the opportunity to choose to have their character stored without any staff prejudice if caught as a slave.

5) PC slavers would only attempt to capture characters not wearing the livery of any merchant or noble house.

6) PC slavers would be OOCly limited to a very small number of PC captures in any given real life week - mixing those with the capture of arena beasts and other humanoids.

The idea is to make slaving more interesting and realistic, and to make it more dangerous for both those who run around alone outside city gates and the slavers who never know if they are going after Joe NoOne or Joe SuperDefiler.  We don't want to make independents unplayable, but just add a touch more danger to the game.

Post your thoughts.  A "I hate this idea" is as good as a "I like it', but we'd like to have the reasons as well.  Much like a well-played raid, a well-played slaving could be fun for all involved.

[sacac]

Cool beans.
I have always wanted to be enslaved, but noooooooo.

Much like a well-played raid, a well-played slaving could be fun for all involved.

How many raiding scenes are well played?
1 out of maybe 30?

The PC slavers need to be watched closesly so they don't get a group of ten, run into a room, kill, mercy on.

That is what I fear, I am out in the desert foraging for sandstone and then ten people run in, and 20 screens of combat roll right on through and then 3 hours later, my pc wakes up and I'm in chains.

[corona]

Excellent idea!

I had a pc who was killed by a slaving house. I was pretty upset that they killed her.. instead of enslaving her. The rp possibilities! I -so- saw the good which could have come from that. WHY wasn't I enslaved? MY pc was wrongly accused, but goodness gracious, that would have rocked! :twisted:

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Naiona wrote:

How do you feel about the idea of PC slavers occasionally going after PC targets?

Pretty damn good.

[cyberpatrol_735]

Meh, I'd go down fighting!

but yeah.. it'd add a bit of danger, as long as the slavers don't twink..

[Naiona]

Just a note - this would be closely monitored in a variety of ways and there would be very little opportunity for the slavers to twink, if implemented.

[Larrath]

So, my question to you all is:

How do you feel about the idea of PC slavers occasionally going after PC targets?  

Awesome.  Very very awesome.

1) Any PC captured would have the opportunity to bribe their captors on the spot and walk away for a reasonably inexpensive fee.

To this, I say meh.  If you get caught by slavers, you're in deep trouble.  IF a bribe worked, which in itself should be a rare thing, I doubt anything less than 300 'sids per slaver should be enough.  Borsail and Winrothol are pretty rich Houses, and they at least seem to pay their people rather well.

2) A PC would have the opportunity to get to the bank or have friends bring money to buy their freedom upon the return to the city.

This sounds problematic.  People could say they have to contact their friends and alert the Templarate, who would surely like to get its hands on a slaving unit of the opposing city-state.  No friends, but maybe some other arrangement can be made - maybe throwing the captive for the Byn to handle and transport back if they paid the bribe when they arrived at the slavers' city state.  Again, I'd like this to be rare.

3) A PC would have the opportunity to choose service by death at the Arena, rather then play out a slavery.

Problematic slaves would be tossed into the Arena, docile-seeming ones will be trained and sold.  Yep, is cool.  I'd also like to see full-fledged captured gladiators, though there may be some playability issues with this.  Then again, perhaps they can just be unable to carry weapons and armor and be unallowed to leave the walls under penalty of getting whacked by the guards.  This might also leave escape still optional, but difficult to arrange.

4)A PC would have the opportunity to choose to have their character stored without any staff prejudice if caught as a slave.

Absolutely.

5) PC slavers would only attempt to capture characters not wearing the livery of any merchant or noble house.

Capturing slaves from a Merchant House is silly because the Merchant Houses are very powerful in both city-states.  However, I think a slave cught from a Noble House should be in much higher demand and should therefore be targetted.

6) PC slavers would be OOCly limited to a very small number of PC captures in any given real life week - mixing those with the capture of arena beasts and other humanoids.

Yeah, I don't think we really need more than three or even two PC slaves in each city-state, tops.

Another good side effect this might have is increase the popularity of Byn escort.

I am completely in favor of this.

[Dracul]

I love you naio-

[SpyGuy]

Well, I would prefer the idea be to fight for your freedom in the Arena rather than immediately being tossed in with insta-death mob and dying but I suppose it all depends on the captured character's skill level.

Also there should be limits on where slavers can go.  It makes little sense for Borsail to go out capturing citizens of Allanak collecting salts for House Jal.  That'd honestly be like shooting fish in a barrel.  But I get the impression that your idea is slaving when encountering PCs a bit farther afield, and that's a good thing.  Make some tension with those damn tribals and how great would it be to hear of slavers from Borsail capturing northern loggers and Winthrol slavers raiding a group of 'nakki hunters?

But I'm all for the idea.  Slavery and slavers are sadly an under-represented part of the game from what I've seen and taking it a bit more out of the virtual world is good stuff.  Looking forward to seeing what shape this takes.

[Delirium]

I like it lots.

With my first PC I was scared to death of meeting Winrothol slavers out in the scrub.  Much to my OOC disappointment, I learned a couple characters later that they don't normally raid PCs.  I'd love for that fear to come back.

[Yokunama]

5) PC slavers would only attempt to capture characters not wearing the livery of any merchant or noble house.

This kind of makes being an independant useless.

Also, what if someone hasn't had the chance to pick up a job under a merchant or noble house? They'd be pretty screwed, if they had plans with this character.

[flurry]

Overall I like the idea.  At first glance, I wasn't sure I liked the fact that bribes always provide an out, but after a little reflection I think it needs that.

This kind of makes being an independant useless.

I don't agree with this at all.  People who want to play independents are going to regardless, for reasons unrelated to this.  (I think the last reason to play an independent would be that it's safer outdoors).

There should be extra risks to being independent, and this seems like a realistic (but not overly harsh) disadvantage.

[Yokunama]

There should be extra risks to being independent, and this seems like a realistic (but not overly harsh) disadvantage.

Independants have lots of downs.  :wink:

Perhaps the slaves should go after people who have not claimed any citizenship, or not -dressed- as if they were in a noble or merchant house?



Hehe. ^_^ It'd be nice to see a noble's aid get caught by a PC slaver, because he/she wasn't dressed properly.

[Larrath]

Allanak and Tuluk are in a state of constant warfare, and both cities would just LOVE to have a few of the other city's nobles as its slaves.  It's just great for personal reputation and general morale, not to mention that a slave like that could sell for an absolute fortune.
Other people, such as tribals or the residents of the opposing city-states, would make a fine target as well.  Residesnts because it's war and they're there, and tribals because the tribes probably can't retaliate as forcefully as a full city-state can, assuming that it escalated into a war.

Employees of the Merchant Houses would be exempt from this simply because it makes sense - if Borsail grabs ten northern Kadian hunters, crafters, merchants or what-have-yous, House Kadius is going to be upset with Borsail and might get back at them, and Borsail wouldn't want that.  Salarr is an even better example - piss them off and you'll get a batch of bad swords that will break faster.

I don't think this should only affect independents - Borsail would make slaves of any enemies of Borsail (with obvious exceptions such as merchants or other southern nobles or even high ranking southern commoners), and I don't see why they should care whether their victim is working for House Tenneshi.  If anything, it just means they can be tortured for information.

Can someone please explain to me why a small 'fine' paid to the slavers in order to consistently be released is a good idea?

EDIT: I don't think a Noble House would regularly enslave citizens of its own city-state, unless it's an extreme case.  Generally speaking, that's what the templars are for.
And I doubt independents have it hard enough.  You have to be extremely desperate or extremely talented in order to be able to make a good living on your own.  Forcing independents to hire the Byn, go out less often or travel in groups will make their lives harder, which is a good thing because I understand their lives are just too damned easy.

[Delirium]

Can someone please explain to me why a small 'fine' paid to the slavers in order to consistently be released is a good idea?

Because slaves are expensive to train for what they sell for.  I won't get into exact costs, but sometimes it might be easier and more profitable to accept a bribe of 500 'sid rather than spend so much effort breaking in a new slave.

That's my theory, anyway.

[Larrath]

Can someone please explain to me why a small 'fine' paid to the slavers in order to consistently be released is a good idea?

Because slaves are expensive to train for what they sell for.  I won't get into exact costs, but sometimes it might be easier and more profitable to accept a bribe of 500 'sid rather than spend so much effort breaking in a new slave.

That's my theory, anyway.

Sure, it costs money, but Houses as adept and wealthy as Borsail, Kasix and Winrothol can afford it.  Not to mention that they have all of the facilities they need already built, and the trainers already hired.
Also, this money doesn't come from the pocket of the Wyverns themselves.  Finally, if they completed a good raid, won't they get a small bonus from their House?
If so, I'm sure the total value of this bonus will exceed 500 'sids.  I was also under the impression that this bribe was intended to be closer to the 250 'sid range.

Last thing - most captured slaves probably end doing things that require less training anyway; labor slaves, gladiators, possibly entertainers, but not concubines or bodyguards, I imagine.  Training a laborer isn't all that hard - one week to beat the shit out of them, one week to teach them the job, one week to teach them etiquette, and another week to beat the shit out of them again.

It just feels like a very OOC thing to me, I'm sorry.  The slaving Houses are there to capture, breed, train and sell slaves, not to play tag with people and charge them money if they lose.  This will make the world far more dangerous, and I also believe it will make city vs. city events both more regular and more open - if some friendly bunny-hugging Tuluki got caught, all of his friends are affected as well, and might get involved in this somehow.

[Revelations]

I'm up for it as long as the respective slaver has a good reason to enslave a particular PC. So, most independants wouldn't need to worry too much, but if they cross the wrong line...  :roll: Also, I believe there is document regarding slaving in your own city-state. Much of that would be up to templars, if my memory serves correctly.

Definitely alot more fear will be spread thoughot the playerbase...a good thing up to certain points.

Also, there will -have- to be just as equal RP opportunity as a slave/arena fodder. If becoming a slave is boring, then it would practically be the same thing as getting killed. There must be a -good- IC and OOC reason to be slaving a person. But, I'm sure with such a thing as this, the imms will keep tight on how things run.

[Naiona]

Just to clarify a few points:

1) We don't expect there to be very many ..if any at all... PC slaves from this. (Ones that don't store or die in the Arena, that is)

2) The PCs doing the slaving would be Zalathan.  What does that mean? Corrupt.  They'll take the pay off when offered because it is a) easy and b) money.

No slaving would ever take place inside city walls.  And yes..the idea of slavers traveling to opposite territory is appealing.  It makes things more dangerous for the slavers as well as their victims.

[bloodfromstone]

This is a wonderful idea. If it is played out well, it could add very interesting RP opportunities to the game, imo. It has the potential to become very bad for players if it isn't played well, but that's true of many things...

[Yokunama]

It makes things more dangerous for the slavers as well as their victims.

It could also leave gap open for a small chance of escape.

[amoeba]

I think this would be a good addition to the game. Mind you personally I would never play a slave, but the slavers would be fun to avoid.   My only comment to add is that as long as there is some RP invloved, not just an insta-capture scene with no posibility of outsmarting the slavers and escaping.  Yes I can see them trying overwhelming odds, but a 100% sucess rate would prove irritating.

edit - My wife made a good point, and yes this crosses ooc concerns. Newbies would seem to be disproportionatly easy targets.  Yes ICly they would be good targets, but slaving someone who didn't understand all the possiblities could turn off some people, just as they are getting into the game. And yes. some would really enjoy it to preempt all you dissenters, but it does raise the possiblity of souring some people on the game at a critical point.  I'm not saying no with the addition of slaving, but this boundry case should be considered.

[John]

This kind of makes being an independant useless.

Having 300 'sid to bribe the House on you is going to make an indpendant useless? Hell no! Just don't go to far from your city if you're THAT worried. Borsail won't exactly be walking up to the Main Gate of Tuluk and sitting there waiting.

This will add so much that I'd love for it to be given a trial, say X amount of months (assuming the players aren't twinking out) after which, the policy is again reviewed by the staff (with player input is always nice) to decide whether or not to keep it.

Some of the reasons I want it:

• It gives you a personal and immediate reason to hate members of the opposing city-state.
  
• Borsail and Winrothol have an immediate reason to want spies in the opposing city-state. These spies can look for groups of independants that can be easy prey.
  
• Borsail and Winrothol have plots that can be run anytime the staff want (oh, nothing much has happened in Borsail for the past few weeks,. Hey, how long since our last raid?)
  
• Lots of extra roles will now be opened up (especially in Winrothol and Borsail, which will make these Houses more unique, so Winrothol will be fairly different to Tenneshi and Borsail will be fairly different to Oash).

Ways to avoid being captured by a slaver:

• Hear about if Borsail has recently had a slave-run. If so it's not unreasonable to ICly think they won't be back for a month. As time passes from the last raid, you'll probably begin to get nervous and wonder if they'll be back, so avoid going outside until you hear they've returned and gotten another group of people.
  
• Keep 300 'sid on you to bribe the slavers with (or however much is needed).
  
• Always be within running/short riding distance of a major city/town (Tuluk Luir's Outpost, Allanak and Red Storm are all major cities/towns). This is so you can flee, but also because the slavers are unlikely to prey that close.
  
• Go with a large group. Hopefully you'll look too intimidating. And if not, you'll at least be able to kick up a good fight.
  
• Become gemmed No Winrothol will want you.
  
• Go with a group of friends and have a few of them be lookouts/scouts for any dangerous people (raiders, slavers, mantis, gith).
  
• Make sure you become killed instead of captured
  
• Fight in the arena for your freedom and either succeed, or die trying.
  
• Walk around with a few guards, so that they can fight for your freedom while you flee to safety
  
• Know your wilderness well. Look for places not easily accessible by the inexperienced that you can run to.
  
• Bribe a slaver of the opposing house to give you a warning for when the slavers are coming your way.
  
• Learn the slaver's favorite spot to slave and avoid it.
  
• Hire a spie (or more) to give you a warning on when the slavers are coming your way.
  
• Look for someone in your area that has the spies, and pay him a monthly fee for the information.
  
• If your a crafter and need supplies, buy the supplies from other (N)PCs. There's a good chance someone has (or is willing to get) what you want.
  
• Join a House, or only travel with people from a House.
  

When I can come up with 16 ways to avoid becoming a slave (from only 30mins of thinking), I doubt very much that it will destroy independants. There are many ideas here, some more favorable then others. The most easily done one is the 300 'sid bribe. From what I hear, plenty of independants have no trouble coming up with that sort of coin (heck, an automated apartment costs 500 an OOC week, with plenty of those being rented out).

This will make available spies that keep an eye on the movements of a clan, that will sell the information to other people. Also spies to watch the movement of a mark and to relay the information to a slaver.

And least of all, slavers! Independant ones to. I think if an independant PC can capture an independant from Luir's, Red Storm, tribe or the opposing city-state, transport the victim to the city-state, and hold the victim until they speak with a slaver, without imm assistance and without being a twink, then I think they deserve to be rewarded somehow But anyone looking for such a role should check with the staff first. But this isn't currently available, because as far as I know, capturing PCs to be a slave is a big no-no.

Anyway, I give this idea a big thumbs up, providing the staff keep a close eye on the players.

[John]

It just feels like a very OOC thing to me, I'm sorry.  The slaving Houses are there to capture, breed, train and sell slaves, not to play tag with people and charge them money if they lose.

What's better: No PC slaving done at all, or some done, with a cheap out for anyone that's caught? You might say none at all, because that way it doesn't cheapen the House by lowering them. And that's fine, that's a perfectly valid point. But I personally think it's better to have SOME slaving, rather then none.

I'm also sure that the amount needed to make a successful bribe will move around a bit, while the staff find a good place to put it (and no, I don't imagine it will be a case of "You've only got 249 'sid? I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to enslave you. We have a 300 'sid minimum in our bribes." But I also don't think it will be "You have 10 'sid? Well we have to accept any bribe, so we'll let you go this time").

[Manhattan]

I say go for it.
Slaving would be fun. Makes Zalanthas that much harsher.
there could even be slaver ships!

[cyberpatrol_735]

Just a note - this would be closely monitored in a variety of ways and there would be very little opportunity for the slavers to twink, if implemented.

Not because I need brownie points, but anything that keeps people from twinking makes you my friend


Speaking of twink, anyone played a delf lately? yeesh..

Back to topic:

I think it's a very good idea to do slave runs -outside- of the city walls, and still, it gives the slavee (person getting ran) would have the chance to 1. Run, 2. Bribe, 3. Die, 4. Become a Slave

I like it, and playing a slaver might be a fun role too..