The X-haired, Y-eyed masses

[The Slovenly Urchin]

The other day I walked into a tavern and found it bustling--five or six PCs in addition to the usual NPC crowd. What struck me was that all of their sdescs followed this format, or something very close to it: all of them were either X-haired or Y-eyed, or both (X and Y usually being some very obscure word for a color.) My question is, can't we be a little more creative than this? The hyphenated construction has always struck me as a little awkward and banal, especially when used more than once in the same sdesc, and I see this everywhere on Arm. Combine that with the fact that in most cases it's just the eyes and hair being described, and you have a bunch of descs that look like they were stamped out of the same assembly line back at the factory. A bunch of thesaurus-eyed, thesaurus-haired men and women walking around. I don't even bother to look up some of these words.

I think I found the source of this nefarious trend, by the way:

http://www.dhorizon.org/characterBuilder/

That's a useful document, but it seems like it's being mined far more for its weird-ass color names than its suggestions about things to describe.

Anyway, the issue of arcane words being used in sdescs has been brought up before and debated to death, so I'll leave that alone. I think you can have unique keywords without resorting to words no one is likely to know (partly because funky keywords seem to be more the rule rather than the exception right now). But aside from that, I think people could stand to variegate the structure of their sdesc more, and make it actually interesting to read. Here are some ideas:

1) Instead of "the green-eyed man", "the man with green eyes". Instead of "the silver-tressed elf", "the elf with long silver tresses". The advantage of using the "with" construction is you can elaborate; try getting in the fact that those tresses are long AND silver using the hyphen construction. Just doesn't work.

2) Describe more than hair and eyes, for the love of Tek. Describe the bulbous nose, the sensual lips, the cleft chin, the pendulous earlobes, the multiple chins, the stooped or upright posture, the enormous or dainty feet, the ample bosom or sunken chest. You can find more examples in that link above. Describe them in the sdesc! Yes, these are all things you would mention in your main desc, but they can also be used in your sdesc! The sdesc should (ok, in my opinion) contain your character's most striking features, be a terse encapsulation of what stands out about them. If she's got some monster knockers, I want to see them, every time she does something!

3) Look for single words that give multiple pieces of information. Case in point: "brunette". Here's a word that communicates two things at once: brown hair, and femaleness. All without a hyphen! Holy crap! Single words that transmit a lot of information are way cool, and you should seek them out. Don't look down your nose at "brunette" just because you knew what it meant before you studied for the SAT. Trust me, your mystique will remain intact.

4) Does your character have a distinct smell? In a place like Zalanthas, where it's perpetually hot and there's no water to shower with, you can bet everyone is gonna have their own special reek. Your character might have particularly bad BO. Maybe they smell like rotten cabbage. Maybe they smell like spice, since they're smoking it all the time.  Maybe they smell of sweat and perfume, because they're a whore. Let's use the other senses a bit.

5) Use poetic license. Not everything has to be literal. You know that "cruel-eyed templar" in the 'nak bazaar? Now, look past the fact that the Lord Templar used a hyphen for a moment (he's a Templar, he's allowed to bend the rules.) What's great about his desc is the use of the word "cruel." It's not a color, it's not any literal characteristic of his eyes; it's the effect he produces, the chill that runs up your back when he looks at you. Words used poetically like this can really make for an eye-popping desc, and project your character's personality.

Well, that's all I can think of right now. Feel free to add more ideas, tear down mine, or vehemently reject the whole premise.

-The Slovenly Urchin

[Anonymous]

I think you can have unique keywords without resorting to words no one is likely to know

I find going bald to be a really neat way to have a unique keyword. MOST people have hair, it's unlikely there'll be too many bald chars in the game at the same time.

Instead of "the green-eyed man", "the man with green eyes".

Not a big fan of those. Mainly because the code sometimes changes the last word in your sdesc, so you'd be "the man with green templar" which makes no sense. I don't know if any items except the templar's robe changes your sdesc that way, but hey. You never know when you'll want/need to pass yourself off as a Templar (I would have done it in one HRPT if only I hadn't been a half-elf).

[Moofassa]

The reason i use puke boring sdescs like the pink-haired, pink-eyed man is that, in my opinion it is how I would think right off the top of my head. I percieve the words in the zalanthas to be my thoughts. That is what my character thinks in his head when he see's their character. When he see's a character with green eyed and shiny dark black hair, he sure as hell isn't going to think "oh hey, there's my forest-tinged, emerald haired friend with the ebony locks tinged with the slightest kiss of grease" haha. no. so i like the bland ones. Even though the overly descripted, THESAURAUSED names, are neat and fun, it's not how I would think.

Congrats to the X-haired, Y-eyed clan. Here's to you being as lazy as I am, because Does it really matter? nope.

[The Dude]

I agree on most points, but I don't have anything against "the hyphen" in general, other than that yes, it's overused.

Your run-of-the-mill blank-haired, blank-eyed sdescs tend to throw me, not because they're so standard, but because I really have no clue what sort of individual I'm looking at. Is he young or old, big or small, tall or short, wide or thin, clean or dirty, at all unusual, standout, impressive, or unimpressive in any way whatsoever? I don't know man, all I know is that his eyes are pink and his hair is pink. He could be anything else in the world that I'd notice long before his eye color, but that's all I have to describe him by until I get up all nice and close-like and drop a big fat "LOOK" command on his ass.

I personally dislike the use of eye color in an sdesc, because it's been brought up time and again that when you're looking east through several leagues of rocky desert, the last thing you're going to notice about that hazy figure in the distance is what color his eyes are. Though upclose, those flashing neon-green eyes with red and white polkadots may stand out to me if I'm right in your face looking right at you, they won't from behind and they won't if I'm three city blocks away looking into a tavern.

What might actually stand out is the relative size of your individual. One sorely overused word I'm sure we've all seen is "muscular", but it is a good example of something you'll notice about a character WAY before their eye color, and anything of this variety I think will fit the bill - skinny, slender, chubby, pudgy, shapely, petite, dainty, stout, stocky, short, tall, double ginka-chested, yada yada, etc etc.

3) Look for single words that give multiple pieces of information. Case in point: "brunette". Here's a word that communicates two things at once: brown hair, and femaleness. All without a hyphen! Holy crap! Single words that transmit a lot of information are way cool, and you should seek them out. Don't look down your nose at "brunette" just because you knew what it meant before you studied for the SAT. Trust me, your mystique will remain intact.

I LOVE this point. I agree wholeheartedly, and will note that we are in desperate need of more ragamuffins.

[moab]

As someone who is not currently playing a an x-haired, y-eyed character at the moment, I like having a lot of sameness in character sdescs.

Face it - we all look pretty much alike, don't we?

Very often my elves are the dark-haired or the dark-eyed not because it's easy, but because I want to show a racial similiarity.  Oh - he's an elf.  Period.

Not - oh, he's a a gangly elf, ugly elf, muscular elf.  Just an elf.  Joe Average.  That's all.

When I play character like "the weathered dark-haired man" I want you to think - 'oh, an average commoner - spends a lot of time outdoors."

When I want to stand out as a PC I'll go with something more extreme.

I think when choosing a short-description rather than worrying about unique keywords we need to worry about what we are presenting.

The "gem-eyed, water-haired elf" is not going to come across like some 'rinith rat.

[Maybe42or54]

I for one don't want people to be as creative as humanly possible when it is me, who has to find out what the hell that shit means.

I personally like The X-haired, Y-bodied gender

It tell me as much as I think it can.
For instance, The black haired, wiry man

It tells me he has black hair, skinny and strong, a male, and a little more on the T'zai Byn hiring style.

I never see a noble with Wiry, they all have to have fancy words.
So that is just my thoughts.

[Tamarin]

So you'd rather see bland sdescs, and go through your time here with a crappy vocabulary?

We have dictionary.com for a reason, people.  How long does it take to look up a word?  A second and a half on the long side?

[Maybe42or54]

I'd rather people not look up the strangest word they can for a simple color.
My pc won't see Cherubic. So why do I want to?

[Malifaxis]

"The Slovenly Urchin"

I don't really have a problem with x-haired people.  Hair is easy to spot.  y-eyed kinda piss me off when it's something extraordinarily stupid like 'the brown eyed' or 'the blue-eyed'.  What the hell is so damn special about your eyes that I can see them 3 rooms away?  Hair color, sure, you can pick that out of a crowd no problem.  Those eyes better freakin glow, though.  Just my opinion.

Further in my opinion is the clever use of the word 'urchin.'  I have seen several players use 'nifty' names.  Ragamuffin.  Imp.  Giantess.  Titan.  Wretch.  IMHO, there should be many more of these people, but instead, the ability to use such keywords seems restricted in the extreme, except in certain cases.  

I very much prefer to not see eye color, but hey, if it happens, it happens.  It's not a strangling offense.  It does get extremely tedious when dealing with 8 'eyed' individuals, all of which are 'haired' as well.  Why not 'maned'  or 'coiffed' or 'tressed' or 'braided' or some such?  Great, you have hair.  Fucking kudos to you... mind giving it a bit more of an explanitory twist?

Skin color (blotched, sunburned, pale(?!?), baobab-skinned), body build (wiry, skeletal, buff, collossal, awesome, miniscule), and even age (older, young, ancient, methusalean) provide a hellacious amount of ways to spruce up your desc and keep you from being rank and file in the 'eyed, haired' collective.

I may have had more to say, but I lost my train of thought.

[Malifaxis]

I'd rather people not look up the strangest word they can for a simple color.
My pc won't see Cherubic. So why do I want to?

There was never an Earl of Sandwich in Zalanthas, and yet I've seen multiple sandwiches in my time here.  If they called it a marillo, would you have *ANY* idea of what was being referred to?  Would a newbie?

I'd much rather seen 'Cherubic' than "Isahnian" or even 'Borsailian."  Yet if Isahn had been a pleasantly plump, red cheeked fellow, it's sure be the word that the world would use, wouldn't it?

[flurry]

I'd rather people not look up the strangest word they can for a simple color.
My pc won't see Cherubic. So why do I want to?

Sometimes it's nice to have uncommon adjectives so that you don't get keyword mixups.  

I haven't seen "cherubic" in game, but actually I think it's a really good word for a short description.     Along with the original poster's comment about the word "brunette", "cherubic" conveys multiple things in one word.   Sometimes it takes a certain word to say exactly what you mean.

And also I think we need to remember everyone here is working with a different vocabulary, so there are always going to be words that send people to the dictionary, even if the person who wrote the description thinks they're all well-known words.

[mansa]

I got a character rejected for using something other than man.

[Ali]

There are plenty of interesting words in the English language to describe a character without getting so obscure that EVERYONE you meet needs to use a dictionary. With the 'X-haired, Y-eyed' formula, thesaurus use can get absurd as everyone tries to find a kreativ word for 'green' so their character can have a unique keyword - or, you get a bunch of people who all look alike because they all use the most common descriptors for those attributes.

I always thought having eye-color in an sdesc was a bit odd - specific eye-color especially, rather than 'dark' or 'light'. What if someone is miles away? Asleep? Facing away from you? Obviously, other features could be hidden in those situations, but unless your eye color is REALLY spectacular, I'd hardly notice it. The only people I can rattle off eye color for IRL are my immediate family members and my boyfriend. Other sorts of eyes (beady, sunken, squinty) are nice, because that usually IS something people would notice about the character, and it's more obvious than that precise shade of hazel.

I like words describing the body as a whole - the most common sdesc pattern I've seen in-game so far is 'the X, Y-eyed/haired race/gender', where X describes the body type (wiry, short, muscular) and Y is your obligatory kreativ color name. Seeing the exact same pattern everywhere can get old after a bit, but it's better than the plain hair-and-eyes the OP mentioned.

Loaded words are good - even if different people associate slightly different connotations with a word, it'll lodge a firm image of the character in their heads. 'Slovenly urchin' pulls up a wealth of sight, smell, and sound for me, that'd be a fun one to run into in-game.

[amoeba]

I find posts like this both amusing and bit irksome.  When I put together a description I use what feels best at the time. If the green-haired, red-eyed man works, then so be it. It does not enter into my mind as to if there are too many hypnenated names at any given time, nor do I really care.  In terms of if I put my eyes into my description, I describe my characters most promiment features, It could be they are the eyes.  I describe for people in the same room.  It is an artifact of the code that shows the sdesc from three leagues away.  Ideally, it would be nice to see different descriptions that are distance based, with outside being different than inside, but that is a different discussion.   I take little stock in these "my use of the english language is better than all you unwashed masses" threads.  Oddly enough I agree with Moofasa, it doesn't matter.

[lazycritic]

I never use eyes in my sdescs. In my experience, the people who use a creative and descriptive sdescs are a class above the masses. I'm not a fan of obscure gems that happen to be brown-colored either.

Even the common "lithe, brown-haired man" is better than "brown-haired, blue-eyed man". Seriously.

That character builder is great if you skip past the eye colors.

[Elgiva]

I do not mind. Seriously. If you want to be the brown-haired, brown-eyed man, it is up to you. The player is the one who decides what is the most noticeable feature and if he wants to add a colour of his eyes, I want to believe he has some reason for it. I kind of dislike when sdesc hints you to read mdesc just to understand what is the other player trying to describe, but even in that cases, it's that player's decision.

[amoeba]

Even the common "lithe, brown-haired man" is better than "brown-haired, blue-eyed man". Seriously.

That character builder is great if you skip past the eye colors.

I fail to see the coorelation.  Seriously.  Nitpicking at insignificant details does what to enhance the overall enjoyment of the game?   I don't mind the discussion of people opinions,  what bothers me is the asseration that thier particular opinion is indeed the "better" way to do things,  and that those that do not ascribe to said opionon is beneath them. Seriously.  In *my* opinion, the person who sees past incidental details and just plays the game by leading by example is the superior roleplayer. Seriously.   :twisted:

[Cuusardo]

To me, sdescs are indicitive of a character's most noticeable characteristics.

The thing that bothers me are mdescs.  I once wrote up an mdesc for a new PC I was going to play, and I sent it to someone to proofread.  She pointed out that the character was "all head" because that's what the majority of my desc was describing.  And now, I notice PCs with mdescs like that.  I've seen at least three whose descs described their heads, and nothing else.  I find myself wondering, "What does the rest of this person's body look like?"

[Delirium]

I'm with amoeba, actually.

Y'all need to chill on the eye thing.

I rarely use it myself, but I'll be damned if I give two shits if someone else uses it. It's their character, and I for one am perfectly capable of roleplaying out a scene with full enjoyment without getting all hung up over whether or not I can really see the brown-haired, yellow-eyed man's eyes. I just decide. If I can't, I can't, if I can, I can. Now wasn't that simple?

Seriously. Stress over something more important.

[John]

I got a character rejected for using something other than man.

I wouldn't say that's normal staff policy. I've used red-head before and was quite safe.

I always thought having eye-color in an sdesc was a bit odd - specific eye-color especially, rather than 'dark' or 'light'. What if someone is miles away? Asleep? Facing away from you?

Sdescs don't exist in the game. They're an OOC means for us to identify people. A simple look command will tell you what you need to know. Or should main descs not have eye-colour or any facial features in case they're not facing you?

One good thing about X-haired, Y-eyed is they make you use terms to describe someone that aren't in their sdesc.

And lots of people notice other people's eyes when they talk to them. So to those, the eyes are very prominent. For me, noses are very prominent, however I can't take 2 words to describe a nose, so I can't put it in my sdesc, otherwise I would.

Me, I'm a head-person. So when I write a desc I'll spend 3 lines describing that, one line describing the rest of his body. I just can't find too many ways to concentrate on the rest of his body.

[Bestatte]

The whole eye thing is kinda iffy to me. On the one hand, you can't see someone's eyes a league away. On the other hand, you can't see someone's skin up close and personal unless they're not covered from head to toe, so why does everyone describe their skin in their main descs?

I say, if the eyes are unusual (odd colored, crossed, one blind, cloudy, multi-hued, vacuous), then I see nothing wrong with including them in a sdesc. Even so, the "brown-eyed woman" might be a very boring description but I see nothing wrong with it per se.

I remember a previous thread, or maybe a IM chat with someone, concerning the "with" sdesc.  The man with green hair. That kind of thing. There was some flaw in using it that had to do with code and mechanics, maybe emotes, but I can't remember what.

If the staff lets it in, then unless there's a typo or spelling/grammar mistake they didn't catch, I'm not going to obsess over it just because I personally don't care for the choice of sdescs a given player uses.

[mansa]

I got a character rejected for using something other than man.

I wouldn't say that's normal staff policy. I've used red-head before and was quite safe.

Here's a quote from an email I received.

We're trying to move away from words like "scamp" "maiden" "imp" etc. and going for more neutral terms like "youth" etc.  "Scamp" has too many connotations of personality, which should be evident through roleplay rather than through description.

[/b]

[flurry]

They have a point, though, don't they?   'Scamp' is a good word, but it would imply something about the personality of the character.  It goes beyond a physical description.

That still leaves the door open for plenty of other creative nouns, I think.

[InsertCleverNameHere]

x-haired y-eyes don't bother me, but probably because I've played a good bit of them. In fact, the majority of mine have been. I've done a few different ones as well, but that just happens to be what usually sounds best (and fits in the 35 character alotment) when I'm working on my own. Of course, I don't mind the more elaborate ones, or creative words. But, I dislike, border on -hate-, having some word that is SO obscure and uncommon.. I've never heard it before, and I don't even have a half-assed guess as to what it could possibly mean. That does strike me as a little ridiculous.
And it doesn't mean I just need to expand my vocabulary. :roll:

[Spoon]

[derail]
Has anyone ever had 'the green man'?
[/derail]

[amoeba]

[derail]
Has anyone ever had 'the green man'?
[/derail]

Rofl,  shouldn't that be "the little green man"?

[Apollonius]

The emote:
pemote dagger rises above ~fatty.
will probably show:
The man with green hair's dagger rises above ~fatty.
Is that gramatically correct?

[Spoon]

[derail]
Has anyone ever had 'the green man'?
[/derail]

Rofl,  shouldn't that be "the little green man"?

Nah, that'd be plural. Like those groups of soldiers you get.

>look north

[near]
The little green men are standing here.

[joyofdiscord]

The emote:
pemote dagger rises above ~fatty.
will probably show:
The man with green hair's dagger rises above ~fatty.
Is that gramatically correct?

Not by standard English it isn't.  You can't just tack a possessive indicator onto the end of a multi-world noun phrase like that.  But by Arm English, we all know what it means.  Technically it would mean the man himself rises above fatty, and at the moment he is with a dagger owned by "green hair", whoever or whatever that is.

Edited to include quote so the post actually makes sense.

[lazycritic]

I fail to see the coorelation. Seriously. Nitpicking at insignificant details does what to enhance the overall enjoyment of the game?

Showing me your eye color does what to describe your character?

Seriously, my problem is not that it's unrealistic to see eye color. It's plain bland. It doesn't add anything to my mental image of a character. Thus I'm left with a simple keyword, and from that I can get relatively little. I tend to skim main descriptions.

Your sdesc is presented every second. Use that to your advantange and you can enhance my overall enjoyment of the game, at least.

And lots of people notice other people's eyes when they talk to them. So to those, the eyes are very prominent.

Relatively few people. The only eye color I know for sure is my mother's.  Beyond that they're all either mostly brown or blue for me.

I rarely use it myself, but I'll be damned if I give two shits if someone else uses it. It's their character, and I for one am perfectly capable of roleplaying out a scene with full enjoyment without getting all hung up over whether or not I can really see the brown-haired, yellow-eyed man's eyes. I just decide. If I can't, I can't, if I can, I can. Now wasn't that simple?

See above. My problem is not only that it's unrealistic to describe someone by their eye color(which, in most cases --especially people you've seen at a passing glance--, it is). I'm simply stating that giving me your eye color(every damn second) does little to nothing to my mind-image of your character. Take that for what you will; it's the truth for me.

I'm liable(not likely) to treat people differently based on their sdesc.

[Reiloth]

What I cannot seem to understand is...

The short description is basically irrelevant to several things:

A players level of roleply, style of roleplay, or even the depth of their long-description.

Along the same lines as that post earlier this week of leet killers who just roam through rooms and kill everything in sight...

How are you not certain that the eye-color is one of the most important parts about the character? I know it is with my current one, and has been with at least one other character in the past. I've also run into a few characters whose eyes were basically essential.

Don't just judge the book by the cover, says I.

As far as overall enjoyment of the game...In a game completely based on words, I can see that argument. But the words aren't sitting their making fun of you. I see plenty of tall half elves, but that doesn't make me judge their character because of three words. Or make me think less of their roleplaying, if they are in fact falling into character very well.

While it is tiresome to see the blue-eyed blonde-haired woman, I think it matters very little in the entirity of things what the person's sdesc is.

The problem I find even more frustrating is people using two words to describe somthing much easier to understand in a full sentance of their long description, such as "Pock-marked" or "Scarred" or "Bulky, Hale, Sinewy". I mean, I have very little trouble with it, but i think thats more of a pet peeve than simple sdescs.

[The Slovenly Urchin]

To those who say the sdesc is a superficiality and shouldn't have an impact on gameplay one way or another, I say: this whole game is made of text! Your sdesc is the single most representative part of you within the game. It shows up over and over again, in everything you do, in hundreds of other PCs' eyes. It's worth making it at least interesting to read, even if the character him- or herself is not interesting per se. It's all well and good to say I shouldn't judge books by their covers, but when all the books on a shelf are solid beige except for one, which is orange with purple polka-dots (or hell, anything but beige), which one do you think I'm gonna wanna pick up? The book analogy is actually very apt. If every character is a book, then from an advertising standpoint, it's worth thinking about your book's cover art. Other people have made excellent points about the eyes being a bad thing to describe in the sdesc, which I hadn't even thought of.

-The Slovenly Urchin

[Elgiva]

Well... you pick the orange book, because it looks like interesting. During my years on university, I learned most interesting books are usually under most boring and usual cover.
EDITed to add: which means I will not pick the orange book. No matter it is orange. Why? Because I know it does not mean it is fun to read it.

The sdesc tells you what the other player wants to tell you. Yes, "your sdesc is the single most representative part of you within the game". So if someone wants to be represented as the brown-haired, brown-eyed man, it is his decision and it tells you what he thinks is most important.

Look around at NPCs. Some of them have unusual and strange words in their sdesc. Some of them are x-haired, y-eyed.

[Moofassa]

Wow, you must be a **edited because i'm a bad flamer**... If you judge people solely on their appearance, the first time you meet them....

And this game ISNT text, to the characters who see the text, that is real, it's their world. IF you can't get past the idea that they are just bots, you have no right to be telling other people, that since their sdesc is plain and boring, they are a horrible roleplayer. Heavens to Betsy batman, that man is as dumb a kank fly!

If Sanvean,or Queen as the turqs call her... by the way... have you ever noticed how every turq player is an awesome roleplayer?.. anyways.. queen.. yes, if her sdesc was the black-haired, blue-eyed woman... would you discard her as being some crappy slack-jawed roleplayer, even if you had gotten to know her, and realise that she is an l337 uber roleplayer? I dont think so.

Get your head out of your box. The game is based upon imagination, not text.

[The Slovenly Urchin]

Elgiva - Certainly, it's their choice to represent themselves however they want. But when I see everyone using the same formula (X-haired, Y-eyed), it occurs to me that maybe they're not giving their sdesc much thought. It looks a whole lot like they just used the same formula they saw everyone else using. That's all I'm saying. If you're X-haired and Y-eyed, and it's completely calculated on your part, and you don't mind looking like everyone else, more power to you.

Moofassa - Dude, show me where I said people with lame sdescs are bad roleplayers? I never said that, and never would. Roleplaying has nothing to do with this thread (notice I didn't post it on the roleplaying board.) I'm talking purely about presentation, here.

You people think presentation doesn't matter? Try reading a book by a genius who can't write. Whose every sentence goes "<subject> <verb> [object]." You would drop that shit like it was hot. Presentation is AT LEAST half of what constitutes good writing. And when you're writing your sdesc and mdesc, this is your opportunity to show off your 1337 writing skillz. Why settle for the old standby when you could do something cool and creative?

-TSU

PS: The argument about characters not seeing text is a complete non-sequitur. Of course they don't see the text. I do. And it hurts me.

[John]

Well all day today I've concentrated on sdescs. I wouldn't say a disproportionate amount of people have the x-haired, y-eyed formula. In a busy tavern, there'll be plenty of people without it. There's always a certain percentage of sdescs that have the formula, but it hasn't become an epidemic.

[The Dude]

You guys are reading into Mr. Urchin way too much.

...you have no right to be telling other people, that since their sdesc is plain and boring, they are a horrible roleplayer.

I must've missed the point at which anyone was called a horrible roleplayer for having a boring or uninformative sdesc, Moofassa. Exactly how far between the lines were you reading? I've reread a few times and I must've missed it. Nothing's been implied of that sort, as far as I can tell, except by you. Please don't get so defensive - no one's attacking you personally.

During my years on university, I learned most interesting books are usually under most boring and usual cover.

Great, but the book's actual content at this point is irrelevant, Elgiva, cause all we're doing is strolling down the aisle or looking across from the other end of the store, and the only one standing out is this orange one with the polkadots that - more likely than not - everyone else is looking at too.

If Britney Spears was ugly, would we know her name? No, probably not.
Would her music still be laughably bad? Yes, it probably would.

No, having a plain, uninformative sdesc will not keep me from roleplaying with you, and no one here's saying that it will.

Just because this guy's sdesc is brown-haired, brown-eyed, it doesn't mean that when I'm sitting on the next stool down the line, I'm going to regard him as anything less than the next guy, but he'd still be doing himself a favor to go and change it to the wiry, baobab-mohawked man, because everyone around him will actually gain some understanding of what he looks like. Hey, maybe my brother's got a mohawk or I'm looking for skinny guys to start a throwing contest among my half-giant buddies. Who knows?

So if someone wants to be represented as the brown-haired, brown-eyed man, it is his decision and it tells you what he thinks is most important.

Yes, or perhaps he thought this was how all sdescs are supposed to be. Maybe no one's told him there are other (better) options because it's all he sees around him. Or, perhaps he just sees it as the "norm", however unfortunate that may be.

I'm not sure if this was some sort of point you were trying to argue, but The Slovenly Urchin isn't trying to rally the townsfolk and hand out torches/pitchforks to storm the Immortal character app review booth with demands that this sort of sdesc be denied. He's saying it's a bad idea in general to have a plain sdesc that tells the world around you nothing about your character. And yes, I believe he is correct in that assertion.

No one's telling anyone to molest the hell out of a thesaurus either (if you read Urchin's original post, he actually discourages this), but there are so, SO many better things to describe on a character than just the color, and ONLY the color mind you of hair and eyes - eyes, also mind you, that any given character may never ever get a decent look at as compared to the rest of the very same said person.

[John]

If Britney Spears was ugly, would we know her name? No, probably not.
Would her music still be laughably bad? Yes, it probably would.

Does that mean people with exciting and interesting sdescs (the armageddon equivalent to beautiful) actually have no substance whatsoever? In that case I'll be staying away from them

Sorry, just couldn't help myself. It's meant as a bit of fun, not a flame

[amoeba]

He's saying it's a bad idea in general to have a plain sdesc that tells the world around you nothing about your character. And yes, I believe he is correct in that assertion..

And other people, myself included disagree.  Sometimes plain is perfectly fine.  Also I have not seen this be a problem.  I have seen enough, lithe, sinewy, slender, etc., to choke a horse.   Sometimes I *want* a generic, (i.e. bland) sdesc.  Perhaps you shouldn't know anything about a person from just a glance.  If you want to know something about my character, interact.   In truth it's probably a moot point, because people rarely see my sdesc.    :wink:

[The Dude]

I have seen enough, lithe, sinewy, slender, etc., to choke a horse.

Yes, I'm sure you have - so have I. Common words are not my complaint, and I'd venture to guess they aren't the Urchin's either. Uninformative sdescs that do not, in fact, describe your character to me hardly at all, are.

Any of those traits you listed on any given person are far, far more noticeable to people all around you - especially those farther away - than the fact that your eyes are brown and I'd be clueless, amoeba, how you could possibly disagree with that - (Edit) unless, of course, I was right in your face, all of the time.

On an unrelated note, John is a goof.

[Marauder Moe]

The sdesc is simply an OOC string that provides a unique identifier for a character.  If you want to see more detail, JUST LOOK AT THE PERSON!  You can't be expected to paint a complete picture with 35 characters, thats what the main description is for.

I have no problem with people who put eyes in their sdescs.  I've done it myself.

If you see "the brown-eyed, big-nosed man" off in the distance, just ignore it.  You don't have to be a newbie and turn to your sergeant saying "Look sarge, there's a guy with brown eyes and a big old nose off to the west!"  If your character recognizes said person, it isn't neccesarily because the text tells you that you see his eyes and his nose.  Really, you're seeing everything else about him at the same time, just from far away.

[Cindrak]

And other people, myself included disagree.  Sometimes plain is perfectly fine.

If you're X-haired and Y-eyed, and it's completely calculated on your part, and you don't mind looking like everyone else, more power to you.

And the disagreement is...?

[The Slovenly Urchin]

The sdesc is simply an OOC string that provides a unique identifier for a character.  If you want to see more detail, JUST LOOK AT THE PERSON!  You can't be expected to paint a complete picture with 35 characters, thats what the main description is for.

You're missing the point. I'm just urging some creativity. I'm not expecting you to compress your whole mdesc into your sdesc. But you might be surprised how much you can evoke with a few well-chosen words...

By the way, it's not necessarily the case that bland characters have to have bland sdescs. Even if you're describing someone who's bland, you can describe their blandness well. Sure, "the brown haired, blue eyed man" will make me assume you're uninteresting, but "the chinless, droopy dullard" will at least get a smile of appreciation from me, the player, even as I ignore you IC.

-TSU

[amoeba]

Any of those traits you listed on any given person are far, far more noticeable to people all around you - especially those farther away - than the fact that your eyes are brown and I'd be clueless, amoeba, how you could possibly disagree with that - (Edit) unless, of course, I was right in your face, all of the time.

I can't believe I let myself get sucked into such a trivial arguement. That being said let me summerize my point of view on this.  

1. I doubt it's that serious a problem.  Newbies tend to pick the simplistic brown-haired, blue-eyed man because it's simple, and they haven't practiced a lot with different variations.  If you take them out of the arguement, are there really so many "bland" descriptions as to draw this kind of response?

2.  There is a base difference in your premise as to what should be in a sdesc as with me.  Correct me if I am mistaken, but your contention is that sdesc should only contain things that can be seen from a distance. Generally that will always mean body type descriptors.   As by your narrowed definition the face would be off limits.    It is my contention that sdesc's are an ooc construct meant to convey your most prominent feature,  the distance you are from a person notwithstanding.  Truth is from three leagues away,  the person would be a blob, you would have a hard time distinguishing as to if they were male or female often times.   So now that I have "clued" you in to my point of view,  in *many* cases the eyes are the "most"    noticable feature.  Take for instance this person: http://www.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/100best/storyA_story.html.  Now create a sdesc for her that does not include the eys.   It falls short doesn't it?  It is my contention that limiting a sdesc to those attributes only noticable from a distance is well, limiting.

3. I find that lecuring people on thier lack of creativity to be a touchy area.  Creativity is a personal thing, it takes time and practice.  I would rather people put thier energies into  improving thier own level of creativity and serve as an example.  Now it would be different if someone posted "how can I get away from these bland sdesc's" but thats not what happened here is it?

[Marauder Moe]

Ok, fine, nothing wrong with creativity.  However, you CAN be a good roleplayer without pretty sdescs/descs/emotes.  Having those things doesn't neccesarily make you a better roleplayer either.  As long as you're not pushing that view, I guess I don't see anything wrong with your message.

[Elgiva]

3. I find that lecuring people on thier lack of creativity to be a touchy area.  Creativity is a personal thing, it takes time and practice.  I would rather people put thier energies into  improving thier own level of creativity and serve as an example.  Now it would be different if someone posted "how can I get away from these bland sdesc's" but thats not what happened here is it?

[The Slovenly Urchin]

3. I find that lecuring people on thier lack of creativity to be a touchy area.  Creativity is a personal thing, it takes time and practice.  I would rather people put thier energies into  improving thier own level of creativity and serve as an example.  Now it would be different if someone posted "how can I get away from these bland sdesc's" but thats not what happened here is it?

I can see I've stepped on some toes here, and that was not my intention. It's not that I don't think people have the creativity (in fact I know the opposite to be true, having played around so many inventive roleplayers here), it's that I don't think it's occurred to some people to apply that creativity to their sdescs. I didn't just snipe, I posted suggestions. To me, that's constructive and nothing to take offense at.

-TSU

[The Dude]

The picture you posted was directly of someone's face looking straight into a camera, amoeba. Yes, if I'm standing a foot away from you and you're looking straight at me with me looking straight back I'm going to notice your eyes. That's a pretty intimate situation.

Most times, not everyone you come across will be near enough to determine an eye color, nor may they be even facing you, or you them. Sdescs aren't supposed to be a replacement for full descs. They're supposed to be the most generalistic qualities you might catch of a person, say, out the corner of your eye - something anyone would notice and in a way identify them with. A plain eye color, to me, just doesn't fit that kind of bill. Of many of the people closest to me in my own life, I probably couldn't describe a single one of their eye colors well enough to really identify them through it.

The only exception might be a woman I know with mismatched eyes, which DOES really stand out when you're looking at her face (kinda strange actually), but not so much even from across, say, a single rather average-sized living room with just us two in it, and her looking directly at me. The fact that she's an older, pretty frail-looking, short little tan-skinned lady with long platinum-blonde hair all stands out well before even those really strange eyes of hers.

That said, I've kinda drifted off track with the whole eye thing. It's just a pet peeve I guess.

Ok, fine, nothing wrong with creativity. However, you CAN be a good roleplayer without pretty sdescs/descs/emotes. Having those things doesn't neccesarily make you a better roleplayer either.

I agree entirely, and as far as I can tell we all do. But if you care to show me more than two colors in an sdesc (both of which could go completely to waste by something as simple as a helmet), I do really appreciate it.

[Marauder Moe]

Why would they go to waste?  As I and other have said, sdescs are mostly an OOC way to recognize a character.

[amoeba]

The picture you posted was directly of someone's face looking straight into a camera, amoeba.

I know this.

They're supposed to be the most generalistic qualities you might catch of a person, say, out the corner of your eye - something anyone would notice and in a way identify them with.

It is my contention that sdesc's are an ooc construct meant to convey your most prominent feature, the distance you are from a person notwithstanding.

A difference of opinion.

[Ali]

So now that I have "clued" you in to my point of view,  in *many* cases the eyes are the "most"    noticable feature.  Take for instance this person: http://www.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/100best/storyA_story.html.  Now create a sdesc for her that does not include the eys.

*snip*

3. I find that lecuring people on thier lack of creativity to be a touchy area.  Creativity is a personal thing, it takes time and practice.  I would rather people put thier energies into  improving thier own level of creativity and serve as an example.  Now it would be different if someone posted "how can I get away from these bland sdesc's" but thats not what happened here is it?

I point to the millions of nondescript, boring photographs of people available on the internet as proof that that lovely image is the exception rather than the rule

It seems the thread has degenerated into huffy arguments - the suggestions to make some more varied and interesting sdescs are 'stifling' people's rights to create how they choose (which obviously wasn't the intent of the thread). If people are making X-haired, Y-eyed characters because they're out of ideas on how to mix it up a bit, tips like this thread's beginning posts will help them out. Otherwise, they're probably pretty aware of how they look to other people, and don't mind it, though it's easy to mix up people whose sdescs are essentially the same (I haven't had a problem with a bunch of similar people all in one place yet, but I figure it's just a matter of time).

If sdescs are an OOC method of recognizing characters, why not just use names instead? We're all good roleplayers here, so we can just ignore the names of the people we haven't ever talked to before. Hey, let's just set build, hair color and eye color at creation, and those can be used to generate the sdesc for us! Hah, no, that would be absurd. The sdesc may be OOC - obviously, a character is inside the game, seeing other characters as real people and choosing their own methods of remembering - but we as players still need to be able to distinguish between different characters in the game, and remember basically what each one looks like so we don't have to memorize mdescs for everyone.

Your character can fade into the crowd and be 'just another face', difficult even for friends to recognize, with a generic sdesc. Or they can be average-looking but still distinctive enough to be easily identified, by changing some words and focusing on other features. Either way works, but if you're the brown-haired, brown eyed man, there could very well be a brown-eyed, brown-haired man around and you would be mistaken for his twin at first glance (obviously, that's what the mdesc is for, but not everyone is going to care enough to read and remember it).

[Maybe42or54]

My point was that if you are going to use a word, use an armageddon word.
Cherubic deals with angels, IMPOV, an angel in Armageddon is one that isn't plotting behind my back.

And don't use words that I can't find in a good, down to earth dictionary that I keep by this here desk.

I mean come on. If I look at your sdesc and you have 2 words I have to look up, and then I take the time to read your Mdesc, and I have to look up a couple mroe words because I have no idea what they mean, tone it down a bit, shit.

[Qetesh]

My view of Sdescs and the significance of them.

First I tend to think of Short Descriptions as a "tag" of the person. Something that says "that's Joe" Without Joe needing to wear a tag saying it. Just a flag to the Main desc of a person. Nothing more.

Could they be more creative? Sure.. But, not everyone has a very poetic main description, also not everyone feels the need to have a poetic description. It just needs to describe some basic traits. Having a fancy name and dramatic description is not a requirement to Role Play on this mud. Having four lines of non-subjective description is and, of course,  role playing is required. So I would encourage other players not to judge someone else's play on three or four words.

Now as far as visible traits.

Can you make out hair color three leagues away, sure.. How about a pointy chin? Or a slanted nose, or long fingers? No.. not without a closer look. Yet you would rather see all these things in a short description instead of eyes? Again, in my opinion, it is a flag or an indicator of who you are approaching. So if they feel that their eyes are their most striking feature, (a lot of people do) then that's most like why you see a lot of "Eyed" people.  

As always, the best way you can encourage other players to be creative and poetic in their play and character creation is to provide well written and creative character concepts yourself and promote your example with Role play.

[proxie]

Sdescs also tend to go in a cycle.

Today there may be a lot of x haired, y eyed men running around.
Tomorrow or next week, or after Halaster runs a RPT, things will change. Usually what I do is look around where I was and try and find a sdesc format that I hadn't seen in a while. And I use that. Could be that a lot of people who made characters at roughly the same time thought it'd be good to put one in like that.

So it'll change. Just don't get your breeches in a bundle. It doesn't mean people aren't creative.

Proxie

[Sir Diealot]

out of all of this.

The most -annoying- thing in these four pages... to me.

Is that brunette was meant to be -only- a female.  A brunette is typically female.  But, in modern vernacular I could say 'Yeah, I'm a brunette..' be understood.. Not be looked at oddly.. and nobody would think I was female.  (which is pretty obvious if you look at/hear me anyway.. )

So.. pah!

[Bestatte]

I could nitpick with the best of them over sdescs and main descs (and often do, quietly, while I sit at my computer). But what truly irks me the most, is when the sdesc keywords aren't even mentioned in the main desc - and/or when there are _really big-deal things that would totally stand out_ in the main desc that aren't part of the sdesc.

The sdesc is a tag, sure...but it's a tag that should theoretically point out the most noticeable things to the reader.

So if your sdesc is "the mangy-haired red-skinned woman" then your main desc NEEDS to include the fact that your hair is mangy, and your skin is red. That's even in the rules, go look it up. If you don't include it, then you're cheating. And by that I mean - if you put your hood up and stand right in front of my character, in broad daylight, and I am unable to tell a templar that you have red skin and that I can see bits of mangy hair trickling down your forehead, then you're preventing me OOCly (as opposed to ICly) from being capable to see anything that your sdesc refers to, even though the sdesc is supposed to be the most prominent visible features of your character.

And if your sdesc is "the mangy-haired red-skinned woman" and your main desc mentions something like "her skin is a red hue, with mangy hair that sticks out from her head, and she has lizard-scale skin with three arms" I'd probably have a serious issue with that as well. Who the hell cares about the color of your skin and the quality of your hairdresser's skills? You're a freaking MUTANT, someone who would stand out in a crowd, and that is the part of your desc that needs to be mentioned in your sdesc! So even "the mangy-haired red-skinned mutant" would work, because at least it prompts the reader to take a serious look at the main desc to find out what kind of mutation you've got, and at a distance, we'd be able to say, "that chick is WEIRD looking. Couldn't tell exactly what was wrong with her, but I'm thinking the midwife who birthed her must've put a hex on her or something."

See what I mean? If there's something unusual, or prominent, about your character according to the main desc, then the sdesc needs to either mention it, or really push the reader to try and get a closer "look" at the character.

And, any keywords in your sdesc should be mentioned somewhere in your main desc.

http://www.armageddon.org/intro/intro.html#main
http://www.armageddon.org/intro/intro.html#sdesc

and from the rules (bold emphasis mine):

http://www.armageddon.org/general/rules.html

Characters are created via the main game menu, and will be reviewed by staff members generally within 24 hours and approved or rejected. Grounds for rejection may include: lack of congruence with the game world, failure to approve connections with existing clans with the appropriate staff member, typos and grammatical errors that are at variance with the overall writing guidelines, lack of the proper keywords, insufficient background, etc.

[Revelations]

It doesn't have to have the same exact words though...IMO. If you have sun-bronzed in your sdesc, you don't necessarily need to have darkly-tanned in your ldesc, you could use that his skin his darkly tanned. Hmm, I don't think that's a good example, but you could use the sdesc as a means of defining your character even more. Of course, something you put in the sdesc shouldn't be a new feature that you didn't put in the ldesc, but it doens't have to be the exact same words.

[Bestatte]

Actually I believe in the character generation process it -does- say that your sdesc keywords need to be included in your main desc. I can't check since the game's down and I already have a character, maybe someone who doesn't can let us know when they go in to write their app?

Obviously you can have -additional- keywords, such as nicknames and other words in your main desc that would be unique enough in a crowd of PCs that people would eventually be able to target you specifically...

But if I recall correctly, if it isn't in your main desc, it isn't supposed to be in your sdesc either.

[flurry]

I am not 100 percent sure, but I think this has come up before and my memory is that you don't need to include the exact words from your sdesc in your main description.   I know in one case I didn't put either of the my sdesc adjectives in the mdesc, but I wasn't even conscious of it until well after the character had been approved.

I have a  log of the character application process (from about 2 years ago), and the parts of it that deal with main descriptions and sdescs say:

On the lines below you must enter your main character description.  This
text will be shown to anyone who looks at your character.  Please follow
these guidelines when describing your character, or your character may
not be approved:

    * Use at LEAST *4* full lines, without using your character's name.
    * Your description must be done in 2nd or 3rd person, e.g., "You see
      before you a..." or "The man has long..." as opposed to, "I am a..."
    * This needs to be in complete sentences in paragraph form.  Try to
      follow the rules of grammar you have learned.
    * Do not make your description deceptive at all, e.g., "You suddenly
      die!  Haha!"
    * Make your description ENTIRELY physical.  Don't refer to your
      character's (or anyone's) feelings: just what he/she looks like.
    * Include only physical characteristics that will not change.
      This means no expressions and/or actions in the description.
    * Do not refer to anyone else in your description or have your char
      looking at anyone, talking to anyone, or making any movements.
    * Do not include equipment nor inventory lists.
    * Be realistic.  No knights in shining armor, shadow-cloaked elves,
      or 6 ft. tall halflings.  (Read the documentation!)
    * Terminate your description with a tilde (~) on a line by itself.

On the line below, you must enter your character's "short description."  This
description is necessary for character interaction, communication, and just
about everything else.  A few examples of short descriptions are below:

the tall, gaunt elf     the short, fat man      the hunch-backed dwarf
the olive-skinned elf   the huge mantis         the barbarous half-giant
the unkempt young man   the brown-haired woman  the weather-worn mul

It is important that this description be done correctly, and there are a
few guidelines associated with it:

    * Your short description should contain information on your character's
      race and other noticable features of your character.
    * Your short description should not contain information that is not
      perceivable by looking at him (e.g., "the intelligent man" or your
      character's name or guild) or adjectives that are not applicable all
      of the time (e.g., "the grinning elf").
    * It should start with the article "the," not "a" or "an."
    * Keep it short(35 characters or under).
    * Terminate by hitting return at the end of the line.

[Bestatte]

Ah okay flurry, thanks for clarifying. I swear I remember reading *somewhere* that the sdesc needs to include info that is present in your main desc. That the two have to match.

But while we're on the subject (hehehehe) -

I've seen a few doozies lately where the sdesc, main desc, and assess -v are in -serious- conflict with each other.

Hypothetical example:

The tall, gangly man.

My character is average height and weight for a human, right smack dab in the middle.

assess -v shows that the tall, gangly man is the same race I am, and that he is shorter, and heavier, than I am. Not so tall or gangly, huh?

Furthermore, his main desc says he is TOWERING, and SKELETAL. Towering and skeletal doesn't mean he is "merely" tall, or "generally" skinny. Towering and skeletal are extremes, which would imply that his sdesc should definitely point that out as "The towering skeletal man" or "The tree-statured anorexic man" or something that really drives home the fact that he's at the absolute extreme of height and weight, since that's how he chooses to describe himself via his sdesc.

You need for anything that you put in your sdesc and main desc to match whatever corresponds via your height and weight, IF you include those attributes in your descriptions. Obviously you don't have to include any reference to height and weight in your sdesc (unless they stand out so much that it's the first thing someone would notice). But if you -do- include it, then it really needs to reflect as accurately as possible what assess -v will tell someone.

So if you pick the absolute shortest height available for your race, please don't insult our intelligence or confuse our RP by stating in your sdesc that your character is "average" or tell us in your main desc that your character "stands tall."

[moab]

I have had (on several occasions read: every time I've submitted one) characters accepted that had short desc words not in the main desc.

Things like:
the hunched elvish crone
When the word "crone" did not exist in the mdesc but the idea of "crone" was quite apparent in the mdesc.

[Angela Christine]

Hypothetical example:

The tall, gangly man.

My character is average height and weight for a human, right smack dab in the middle.

assess -v shows that the tall, gangly man is the same race I am, and that he is shorter, and heavier, than I am. Not so tall or gangly, huh?

I've seen things like that in the past too, like a woman described as dainty and petite but when assessed -v shows up at or near the maximum for height and weight, or someone described as old or young who assesses as "adult".  This is either a mistake (perhaps they didn't write their description ahead of time and didn't decide on a small/young/old description until later in the character creation process) or possibly a long-term character that has gone through some physical changes that are reflected in some areas but not in others (a person who has gotten older, but still has "young" in their description and sdesc) or someone trying to game the system by picking a height/weight/age combination that they think will give them the "best" stats.  

In any of those cases it is probably something a staff member should check in to, and possibly correct.  It might not be a mistake, maybe they assess as mature but still have "young" in their description because they've been bathing in the blood of children to keep their youthful appearance.  Whatever the case may be, it is worthwhile to alert the staff to the potential problem, and let them deal with it.  If nothing changes than the staff apparently thinks the situation is ok.


Angela Christine

[John]

or someone described as old or young who assesses as "adult".

Perhaps they're 13 in real life, and to them 20 is old?

[Revelations]

It could be that they appear young, or old, and doesn't necessarily look like their age. Who knows, maybe that person is a magicker. It's a different world, Zalanthas, and various mutations in genes or the presence of magick could have that effect. Even in RL, I know a few people that look several years older or younger than they really are.

[Bestatte]

I'd say that's nitpicking the example, Revelations. The point being is that when there are *OBVIOUS AND BLATANT AND EXTREME* differences between the three coded things: assess -v, an sdesc, and a main desc, then either a pretty significant mistake was made, or someone is trying to *intentionally* screw with roleplaying identifying their character using OOC mechanics to do so.

Either way, these differences shouldn't exist, and people who are TRYING to do things correctly should be aware that those three attributes should coincide as closely as possible when creating their character.

[Agent_137]

i refuse to read 5 pages.

but i'll still add my opinion:

I HATE using eyes unless they are "crazy wild hello can't miss them" eyes.

And I don't like having really really strange things on my PCs, so I never use eyes for an sdesc.

I use hair often because everyone sees it. Typically I try to tie my "unique" adjective to the hair.

[Vivian]

Uhm, ok here's my two 'sids.  
I believe there was atleast one person who mentioned similar.  However, it is true that you won't see a person's eyes from two rooms away.  But on the flip side...are we forgetting that the sdesc is just a short substitute for the long version?  It really doesn't matter what the sdesc says...if a person wants eyes in it then more power to them.  So what if you're looking at them from behind, that just means that if you never saw their eyes IC, (we'll assume ya actually did take the time to actually -look- at the character and read the description) include some other details that  your character would have noticed.  If she had a nice round ass in the description, then by all means, use your imagination and substitute x-eyed, y-haired for, 'the chick with a real nice tushie.'  
As for seeing people's sdesc's in the distance.  The sdesc is not the only thing your character ICly sees, its just the flag.  And yes, your character could recognize a person from the distance from the shape of their bodies, the way they walk, etc.  Even if they are one of the x-haired, y-eyed masses.

[bloodfromstone]

I'm of the opinion that the sdesc should contain the most striking physical features your character has. If that, to you, is your eyes, then that's fine with me. It doesn't necessarily give as good of a full body vision of your character as describing their body type, but, as was stated above, that's what the mdesc is for.
Maybe you can't see eyes from rooms away, but there's a hundred things that can be said to be the same. Hair color/style is a very obvious physical feature that fits into the sdesc very well, but you can still see the headless body of a leopard-print-haired woman... It's really up to players to interpret the difference between what they see to recogize a random sdesc as Amos the Kank Thief and what their character actually sees of Amos physically at any given point.