The X-haired, Y-eyed masses

[Ali]

So now that I have "clued" you in to my point of view,  in *many* cases the eyes are the "most"    noticable feature.  Take for instance this person: http://www.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/100best/storyA_story.html.  Now create a sdesc for her that does not include the eys.

*snip*

3. I find that lecuring people on thier lack of creativity to be a touchy area.  Creativity is a personal thing, it takes time and practice.  I would rather people put thier energies into  improving thier own level of creativity and serve as an example.  Now it would be different if someone posted "how can I get away from these bland sdesc's" but thats not what happened here is it?

I point to the millions of nondescript, boring photographs of people available on the internet as proof that that lovely image is the exception rather than the rule

It seems the thread has degenerated into huffy arguments - the suggestions to make some more varied and interesting sdescs are 'stifling' people's rights to create how they choose (which obviously wasn't the intent of the thread). If people are making X-haired, Y-eyed characters because they're out of ideas on how to mix it up a bit, tips like this thread's beginning posts will help them out. Otherwise, they're probably pretty aware of how they look to other people, and don't mind it, though it's easy to mix up people whose sdescs are essentially the same (I haven't had a problem with a bunch of similar people all in one place yet, but I figure it's just a matter of time).

If sdescs are an OOC method of recognizing characters, why not just use names instead? We're all good roleplayers here, so we can just ignore the names of the people we haven't ever talked to before. Hey, let's just set build, hair color and eye color at creation, and those can be used to generate the sdesc for us! Hah, no, that would be absurd. The sdesc may be OOC - obviously, a character is inside the game, seeing other characters as real people and choosing their own methods of remembering - but we as players still need to be able to distinguish between different characters in the game, and remember basically what each one looks like so we don't have to memorize mdescs for everyone.

Your character can fade into the crowd and be 'just another face', difficult even for friends to recognize, with a generic sdesc. Or they can be average-looking but still distinctive enough to be easily identified, by changing some words and focusing on other features. Either way works, but if you're the brown-haired, brown eyed man, there could very well be a brown-eyed, brown-haired man around and you would be mistaken for his twin at first glance (obviously, that's what the mdesc is for, but not everyone is going to care enough to read and remember it).

[Maybe42or54]

My point was that if you are going to use a word, use an armageddon word.
Cherubic deals with angels, IMPOV, an angel in Armageddon is one that isn't plotting behind my back.

And don't use words that I can't find in a good, down to earth dictionary that I keep by this here desk.

I mean come on. If I look at your sdesc and you have 2 words I have to look up, and then I take the time to read your Mdesc, and I have to look up a couple mroe words because I have no idea what they mean, tone it down a bit, shit.

[Qetesh]

My view of Sdescs and the significance of them.

First I tend to think of Short Descriptions as a "tag" of the person. Something that says "that's Joe" Without Joe needing to wear a tag saying it. Just a flag to the Main desc of a person. Nothing more.

Could they be more creative? Sure.. But, not everyone has a very poetic main description, also not everyone feels the need to have a poetic description. It just needs to describe some basic traits. Having a fancy name and dramatic description is not a requirement to Role Play on this mud. Having four lines of non-subjective description is and, of course,  role playing is required. So I would encourage other players not to judge someone else's play on three or four words.

Now as far as visible traits.

Can you make out hair color three leagues away, sure.. How about a pointy chin? Or a slanted nose, or long fingers? No.. not without a closer look. Yet you would rather see all these things in a short description instead of eyes? Again, in my opinion, it is a flag or an indicator of who you are approaching. So if they feel that their eyes are their most striking feature, (a lot of people do) then that's most like why you see a lot of "Eyed" people.  

As always, the best way you can encourage other players to be creative and poetic in their play and character creation is to provide well written and creative character concepts yourself and promote your example with Role play.

[proxie]

Sdescs also tend to go in a cycle.

Today there may be a lot of x haired, y eyed men running around.
Tomorrow or next week, or after Halaster runs a RPT, things will change. Usually what I do is look around where I was and try and find a sdesc format that I hadn't seen in a while. And I use that. Could be that a lot of people who made characters at roughly the same time thought it'd be good to put one in like that.

So it'll change. Just don't get your breeches in a bundle. It doesn't mean people aren't creative.

Proxie

[Sir Diealot]

out of all of this.

The most -annoying- thing in these four pages... to me.

Is that brunette was meant to be -only- a female.  A brunette is typically female.  But, in modern vernacular I could say 'Yeah, I'm a brunette..' be understood.. Not be looked at oddly.. and nobody would think I was female.  (which is pretty obvious if you look at/hear me anyway.. )

So.. pah!

[Bestatte]

I could nitpick with the best of them over sdescs and main descs (and often do, quietly, while I sit at my computer). But what truly irks me the most, is when the sdesc keywords aren't even mentioned in the main desc - and/or when there are _really big-deal things that would totally stand out_ in the main desc that aren't part of the sdesc.

The sdesc is a tag, sure...but it's a tag that should theoretically point out the most noticeable things to the reader.

So if your sdesc is "the mangy-haired red-skinned woman" then your main desc NEEDS to include the fact that your hair is mangy, and your skin is red. That's even in the rules, go look it up. If you don't include it, then you're cheating. And by that I mean - if you put your hood up and stand right in front of my character, in broad daylight, and I am unable to tell a templar that you have red skin and that I can see bits of mangy hair trickling down your forehead, then you're preventing me OOCly (as opposed to ICly) from being capable to see anything that your sdesc refers to, even though the sdesc is supposed to be the most prominent visible features of your character.

And if your sdesc is "the mangy-haired red-skinned woman" and your main desc mentions something like "her skin is a red hue, with mangy hair that sticks out from her head, and she has lizard-scale skin with three arms" I'd probably have a serious issue with that as well. Who the hell cares about the color of your skin and the quality of your hairdresser's skills? You're a freaking MUTANT, someone who would stand out in a crowd, and that is the part of your desc that needs to be mentioned in your sdesc! So even "the mangy-haired red-skinned mutant" would work, because at least it prompts the reader to take a serious look at the main desc to find out what kind of mutation you've got, and at a distance, we'd be able to say, "that chick is WEIRD looking. Couldn't tell exactly what was wrong with her, but I'm thinking the midwife who birthed her must've put a hex on her or something."

See what I mean? If there's something unusual, or prominent, about your character according to the main desc, then the sdesc needs to either mention it, or really push the reader to try and get a closer "look" at the character.

And, any keywords in your sdesc should be mentioned somewhere in your main desc.

http://www.armageddon.org/intro/intro.html#main
http://www.armageddon.org/intro/intro.html#sdesc

and from the rules (bold emphasis mine):

http://www.armageddon.org/general/rules.html

Characters are created via the main game menu, and will be reviewed by staff members generally within 24 hours and approved or rejected. Grounds for rejection may include: lack of congruence with the game world, failure to approve connections with existing clans with the appropriate staff member, typos and grammatical errors that are at variance with the overall writing guidelines, lack of the proper keywords, insufficient background, etc.

[Revelations]

It doesn't have to have the same exact words though...IMO. If you have sun-bronzed in your sdesc, you don't necessarily need to have darkly-tanned in your ldesc, you could use that his skin his darkly tanned. Hmm, I don't think that's a good example, but you could use the sdesc as a means of defining your character even more. Of course, something you put in the sdesc shouldn't be a new feature that you didn't put in the ldesc, but it doens't have to be the exact same words.

[Bestatte]

Actually I believe in the character generation process it -does- say that your sdesc keywords need to be included in your main desc. I can't check since the game's down and I already have a character, maybe someone who doesn't can let us know when they go in to write their app?

Obviously you can have -additional- keywords, such as nicknames and other words in your main desc that would be unique enough in a crowd of PCs that people would eventually be able to target you specifically...

But if I recall correctly, if it isn't in your main desc, it isn't supposed to be in your sdesc either.

[flurry]

I am not 100 percent sure, but I think this has come up before and my memory is that you don't need to include the exact words from your sdesc in your main description.   I know in one case I didn't put either of the my sdesc adjectives in the mdesc, but I wasn't even conscious of it until well after the character had been approved.

I have a  log of the character application process (from about 2 years ago), and the parts of it that deal with main descriptions and sdescs say:

On the lines below you must enter your main character description.  This
text will be shown to anyone who looks at your character.  Please follow
these guidelines when describing your character, or your character may
not be approved:

    * Use at LEAST *4* full lines, without using your character's name.
    * Your description must be done in 2nd or 3rd person, e.g., "You see
      before you a..." or "The man has long..." as opposed to, "I am a..."
    * This needs to be in complete sentences in paragraph form.  Try to
      follow the rules of grammar you have learned.
    * Do not make your description deceptive at all, e.g., "You suddenly
      die!  Haha!"
    * Make your description ENTIRELY physical.  Don't refer to your
      character's (or anyone's) feelings: just what he/she looks like.
    * Include only physical characteristics that will not change.
      This means no expressions and/or actions in the description.
    * Do not refer to anyone else in your description or have your char
      looking at anyone, talking to anyone, or making any movements.
    * Do not include equipment nor inventory lists.
    * Be realistic.  No knights in shining armor, shadow-cloaked elves,
      or 6 ft. tall halflings.  (Read the documentation!)
    * Terminate your description with a tilde (~) on a line by itself.

On the line below, you must enter your character's "short description."  This
description is necessary for character interaction, communication, and just
about everything else.  A few examples of short descriptions are below:

the tall, gaunt elf     the short, fat man      the hunch-backed dwarf
the olive-skinned elf   the huge mantis         the barbarous half-giant
the unkempt young man   the brown-haired woman  the weather-worn mul

It is important that this description be done correctly, and there are a
few guidelines associated with it:

    * Your short description should contain information on your character's
      race and other noticable features of your character.
    * Your short description should not contain information that is not
      perceivable by looking at him (e.g., "the intelligent man" or your
      character's name or guild) or adjectives that are not applicable all
      of the time (e.g., "the grinning elf").
    * It should start with the article "the," not "a" or "an."
    * Keep it short(35 characters or under).
    * Terminate by hitting return at the end of the line.

[Bestatte]

Ah okay flurry, thanks for clarifying. I swear I remember reading *somewhere* that the sdesc needs to include info that is present in your main desc. That the two have to match.

But while we're on the subject (hehehehe) -

I've seen a few doozies lately where the sdesc, main desc, and assess -v are in -serious- conflict with each other.

Hypothetical example:

The tall, gangly man.

My character is average height and weight for a human, right smack dab in the middle.

assess -v shows that the tall, gangly man is the same race I am, and that he is shorter, and heavier, than I am. Not so tall or gangly, huh?

Furthermore, his main desc says he is TOWERING, and SKELETAL. Towering and skeletal doesn't mean he is "merely" tall, or "generally" skinny. Towering and skeletal are extremes, which would imply that his sdesc should definitely point that out as "The towering skeletal man" or "The tree-statured anorexic man" or something that really drives home the fact that he's at the absolute extreme of height and weight, since that's how he chooses to describe himself via his sdesc.

You need for anything that you put in your sdesc and main desc to match whatever corresponds via your height and weight, IF you include those attributes in your descriptions. Obviously you don't have to include any reference to height and weight in your sdesc (unless they stand out so much that it's the first thing someone would notice). But if you -do- include it, then it really needs to reflect as accurately as possible what assess -v will tell someone.

So if you pick the absolute shortest height available for your race, please don't insult our intelligence or confuse our RP by stating in your sdesc that your character is "average" or tell us in your main desc that your character "stands tall."

[moab]

I have had (on several occasions read: every time I've submitted one) characters accepted that had short desc words not in the main desc.

Things like:
the hunched elvish crone
When the word "crone" did not exist in the mdesc but the idea of "crone" was quite apparent in the mdesc.

[Angela Christine]

Hypothetical example:

The tall, gangly man.

My character is average height and weight for a human, right smack dab in the middle.

assess -v shows that the tall, gangly man is the same race I am, and that he is shorter, and heavier, than I am. Not so tall or gangly, huh?

I've seen things like that in the past too, like a woman described as dainty and petite but when assessed -v shows up at or near the maximum for height and weight, or someone described as old or young who assesses as "adult".  This is either a mistake (perhaps they didn't write their description ahead of time and didn't decide on a small/young/old description until later in the character creation process) or possibly a long-term character that has gone through some physical changes that are reflected in some areas but not in others (a person who has gotten older, but still has "young" in their description and sdesc) or someone trying to game the system by picking a height/weight/age combination that they think will give them the "best" stats.  

In any of those cases it is probably something a staff member should check in to, and possibly correct.  It might not be a mistake, maybe they assess as mature but still have "young" in their description because they've been bathing in the blood of children to keep their youthful appearance.  Whatever the case may be, it is worthwhile to alert the staff to the potential problem, and let them deal with it.  If nothing changes than the staff apparently thinks the situation is ok.


Angela Christine

[John]

or someone described as old or young who assesses as "adult".

Perhaps they're 13 in real life, and to them 20 is old?

[Revelations]

It could be that they appear young, or old, and doesn't necessarily look like their age. Who knows, maybe that person is a magicker. It's a different world, Zalanthas, and various mutations in genes or the presence of magick could have that effect. Even in RL, I know a few people that look several years older or younger than they really are.

[Bestatte]

I'd say that's nitpicking the example, Revelations. The point being is that when there are *OBVIOUS AND BLATANT AND EXTREME* differences between the three coded things: assess -v, an sdesc, and a main desc, then either a pretty significant mistake was made, or someone is trying to *intentionally* screw with roleplaying identifying their character using OOC mechanics to do so.

Either way, these differences shouldn't exist, and people who are TRYING to do things correctly should be aware that those three attributes should coincide as closely as possible when creating their character.

[Agent_137]

i refuse to read 5 pages.

but i'll still add my opinion:

I HATE using eyes unless they are "crazy wild hello can't miss them" eyes.

And I don't like having really really strange things on my PCs, so I never use eyes for an sdesc.

I use hair often because everyone sees it. Typically I try to tie my "unique" adjective to the hair.

[Vivian]

Uhm, ok here's my two 'sids.  
I believe there was atleast one person who mentioned similar.  However, it is true that you won't see a person's eyes from two rooms away.  But on the flip side...are we forgetting that the sdesc is just a short substitute for the long version?  It really doesn't matter what the sdesc says...if a person wants eyes in it then more power to them.  So what if you're looking at them from behind, that just means that if you never saw their eyes IC, (we'll assume ya actually did take the time to actually -look- at the character and read the description) include some other details that  your character would have noticed.  If she had a nice round ass in the description, then by all means, use your imagination and substitute x-eyed, y-haired for, 'the chick with a real nice tushie.'  
As for seeing people's sdesc's in the distance.  The sdesc is not the only thing your character ICly sees, its just the flag.  And yes, your character could recognize a person from the distance from the shape of their bodies, the way they walk, etc.  Even if they are one of the x-haired, y-eyed masses.

[bloodfromstone]

I'm of the opinion that the sdesc should contain the most striking physical features your character has. If that, to you, is your eyes, then that's fine with me. It doesn't necessarily give as good of a full body vision of your character as describing their body type, but, as was stated above, that's what the mdesc is for.
Maybe you can't see eyes from rooms away, but there's a hundred things that can be said to be the same. Hair color/style is a very obvious physical feature that fits into the sdesc very well, but you can still see the headless body of a leopard-print-haired woman... It's really up to players to interpret the difference between what they see to recogize a random sdesc as Amos the Kank Thief and what their character actually sees of Amos physically at any given point.