The Noble Skill Set

[Ayashah]

Hmm, I dont know. But bashing and smashing, guts and blood on the noble's clothes just didnt seem...civilized, ya know?

You can expect that exact result from any weapon, unless they invented light sabers that cauterize wounds.... DID THEY INVENT LIGHT SABERS? Because if they did... and I missed it, I shall be very upset.

Sa'alam.

Gasp! You didnt get one?  It was in my newbie pack on my first log in! Dude! Write the mud! You got gipped!

[sacac]

Sirihish, RW
Flee
Slashing weapons
Piercing weapons
Shields_use
Dual_wield
Parry
Easier to get Dehydrated (Because they aren't outside a lot, most of them)
Ride
Haggle
Listen
Nocrimflag
Value
Contact
Barrier
Break

Maybe Branched- Parry, Value, scan, Brewing, poison.

Bonus to Wisdom, Negative to Endurance

These are the Base skills I think they should have.

Scan- removed because they wouldn't be looking for thieves, that is what their guards are for.

[wizturbo]

Nobles are NOT trained in combat.  None.  Not even Tor and Lyskae, except VERY odd cases.

Is this considered staff policy?  If so, i'm shocked.  It makes absolutely no sense to me.  All it would take is a single slave to attack the noble while their bodyguard is looking the other way, and thats the end of it.  Absolutely ludacris to me.

[Anonymous]

Xamminy, I think you're wrong.  

Tor nobles go through the academy before being able to instruct or command a unit of scorpions.  Most (from the looks of it, this isn't in documentation) seem to have gone through the officer's program as well.

Many a noble have made a 'hobby' out of swordplay, even if they're not from a military house, at least historically (that doesn't say anything for arm, but it can be compared/contrasted).

[jhunter]

Is this considered staff policy? If so, i'm shocked. It makes absolutely no sense to me. All it would take is a single slave to attack the noble while their bodyguard is looking the other way, and thats the end of it. Absolutely ludacris to me.

Many a noble have made a 'hobby' out of swordplay, even if they're not from a military house, at least historically (that doesn't say anything for arm, but it can be compared/contrasted).

[slipshod]

I fully support the status quo.

I don't think there's a need to add or change a class or classes to be noble-specific.

[da mitey warrior]

I'll take a stab at this....first since nobles are all special apped characters, and experienced players we don't need to stick to the "suck at start" rule with them.

Skills:

Contact, Barrier (at higher than newbie levels)

The usual: shield_use, two-handed, dual_wield etc.

No forage or cooking skill at all. (nobles don't do that stuff)

Parry, slashing and piercing.  (The hitch is the skills should start out at a moderate level, but max at only a slightly higher level.  Like starting at 40% and maxing at 50%.  That discorages nobles sparring but makes them reasonably decent fighters so they don't get beaten up by beggars and thieves.  But it doesn't make them stronger than veteren combat pcs)

Listen, scan.  (Scan should max out fairly low)

Sirihish, RW_Sirihish (usual noble stuff)

Branching: None.

Noble-only subguilds.

Mercantile: Cavilish, RW_cavilish, haggle, pilot.
Martial: Slashing, Piercing, chopping, bludgeoning (at higher start and max levels than normal nobles)
Spymaster: Sneak, Hide, Peek, Search.
Artisan: Cooking, Jewelrymaking, Floristry, Clothworking. (no supporting skills for those, you have underlings for that).

Normal subguilds available: Physician, Linguist.


I think this would work if there was a noble guild.

[jstorrie]

Nobles should probably not have listen. Eavesdropping seems below them. The last time I played a noble, I used listen a ton, and in retrospect would have felt a lot better if I'd had to hire someone to go spy on people.

I would like to see two base noble classes: martial and political. Only nobles with specific ass-kickery-training would get the martial class.

Both would get contact/barrier, r/w sirihish, value, haggle and ride, as well as the 'intrinsic' flee, dual_wield, two_handed, and shield_use.

Both could learn bandaging to a moderate (rangerish?) degree, though most nobles would never see any need to. Forage and cooking start at zero and progress very slowly as well, since nobles would hardly ever use them.

Further, give martial nobles not-terrible weapon skills (three-or-four day warriorish, maybe) and archery, and branching access to parry, disarm and charge (at below-warrior levels) and poison (at below-ranger-level). Their starting skills would represent a life of refined, Tor-esque training and sparring, while the branching skills could represent future potential - but since the noble wouldn't generally have to fight for his life as often as Joe Commoner Fighter, his skills are nowhere near a warrior's in combat. Also, since he's batshit rich he might have access to poison, and it's nice to be actually able to use it without having to power-up some godawful burglar or assassin trick. Odds are martial nobles would still be the best warriors, most of the time, simply because they wouldn't all die before reaching their potential. That being said, Wandering Elite Swordsman Bob could probably get better, having to fight for his life all the time and such.

Give political nobles maybe a language of their choice at a low level of proficiency, much slower progression with weapon skills (and a much lower, merchant or assassin-esque skill cap), and branching access to poison, sleight of hand, and maybe maybe maybe a low-capped backstab. If the noble wants to learn a crafting skill, he should either make a note of it in his application or get tutored a lot in-character and request it.

Martial nobles might look 'better' in some cases, but tavern-sitting, wine-swilling political types are the norm. Martial nobles would generally just be the Tor/Borsail/Winrothol army leader types.

[TripleX]

IMO we need to focus and put our effort in creating a classless system for everyone.  This would affect nobles as well, and will allow players to pick their skills to best match their character's history.

[Ayashah]

I still think nobles should get cavilish as they are learned individuals. Do you think that a noble would really let a merchant have an upper hand on them? Who taught the merchants how to speak ,and a select few, read and to write in cavilish in the first place as it's illegal for commoners to read and write?

[Bestatte]

I still think nobles should get cavilish as they are learned individuals. Do you think that a noble would really let a merchant have an upper hand on them? Who taught the merchants how to speak ,and a select few, read and to write in cavilish in the first place as it's illegal for commoners to read and write?

Cavilish is an off-shoot of Bendune. Merchant houses descend from the nomadic tribes. Their families learn it from each other; nobles have little, if anything, to do with it.

[sarahjc]

Yeah, not trying to de-rail, but I don't see why Cavilish should be needed more than any other language. Also Cavilish is kept rather guarded by Merchants. Very few teach it to outsiders. It should be an option I think. But not a garuntee.

Also, nobles have -lots- of money. I should think the last thing that they would be concerned with, is the price of anything.

[Ayashah]

Cavilish is an off-shoot of Bendune. Merchant houses descend from the nomadic tribes. Their families learn it from each other; nobles have little, if anything, to do with it.

I am aware its an off-shoot of Bendune but they didnt know how to read and write it, just talk. Someone made up the alphabet, etc. Now, since the nobles wanted to keep people ignorant, it would stand to reason they would have off'd those that could to keep others ignorant. IE why someone had to TEACH the merchants how to read and write, those few that can. Granted, every noble I had was given it anyways but because of their duties within the House, so it might just be given to every noble already.

I do like the other suggestion of making it an option to choose.

[sarahjc]

Actually, it is the Merchant houses that have taught Cavilish and how to read and write it. It's also not widely known that they can read and write. That's why you really never see a Merchant family member reading/writing in public. It's not something  that they announce. It's kind of known and swept under the rug. I think that the Templars would allow it only because, with such massive production, they would be keeping ledgers to keep track of orders and things like that or at least I would think that is "why" they were allowed to have it at first. Also Merchant Families are some of the wealthiest people in the game. They too can spend most of their young life studying, free from the struggles that other common folks.

I have never gotten Cavilish as an automatic for one of my nobles, and I  know a few others that struggled trying to learn it.  It's not that I don't think it should be a choice. I think every noble should be fluent in a few languages. And perhaps some of the more obscure ones.

I'd like to see an imm opinion on this as well.

[Bestatte]

I kinda like the idea of "multiple choice" options for nobles.

Such as:

You can pick either a combat-oriented, or merchant-oriented Noble.

If you pick combat-oriented, you have these options:

Pick two from the following:

slashing, bludgeoning, piercing, throwing, whatever else.

Plus shield

Pick two from the following:

Bonus to raw defense, bonus to raw offense, low-capping mid-starting parry, bonus to unarmed.

Pick one from the following: (blahblah blah and so on and so forth)

If you pick merchant-oriented, you have these options:

Pick 2 from the following:

(list of all the kinds of crafting skills that a merchant-based noble MIGHT want to have as a hobby, not capable of mastery - just something they would dabble in, and have a solid understanding of, such as a Tor noble knowing a lot about weapon types, enough that he might try and fashion a few just for fun on occasion)

Pick 2 from the following:

Boost to haggle, boost to value, boost to pilot, boost to listen.

All nobles: expert in read/write sirihish

Pick 2 from the following languages:

Cavilish, Allundean, Bendune, Anyar, Mirrukim

Of the two you pick, choose which one will get a skill boost to "proficient."

Option to have low-starting, low-capped skill in read Cavilish, but not write cavilish.

and so on and so forth. Let them pick things from each of the various categories of skills, but only allow them a limit to how many choices they can pick.

[Ayashah]

Agreed, Bestatte. I like that a lot

[Intrepid]

Having personally witnessed the opening of the Tor house to players and
seeing the charter noble pcs, I would have to say that they were
extremely martial.  With the coming of this academy and more additions
to the house, I believe it has become even moreso.  I find it very
difficult to believe that the house has changed so much that someone
would say those nobles are not warriors anymore.  They sure were
when the house first came into play.  I would rather see variety within
the noble houses than some blanket statement that erroneously places
them all under a single definition.  If they're all dandies and fops who
sit in the taverns all day getting wasted, it makes Fales far less special
as a noble house.  Just as, if they were all warriors, Tors would be
less special.  I hope this is carefully re-examined.

By the same token, just because a noble can scan, it does not mean
that they do not require another set of eyes scanning for them.  Just
as another set of arms in defense is needed as well.  No guard is ever
useless just because a noble can fight, as the combat code does take
superior numbers into account.

[Ayashah]

Actually, it is the Merchant houses that have taught Cavilish and how to read and write it. It's also not widely known that they can read and write. That's why you really never see a Merchant family member reading/writing in public. It's not something  that they announce. It's kind of known and swept under the rug. I think that the Templars would allow it only because, with such massive production, they would be keeping ledgers to keep track of orders and things like that or at least I would think that is "why" they were allowed to have it at first. Also Merchant Families are some of the wealthiest people in the game. They too can spend most of their young life studying, free from the struggles that other common folks.

Merchants/Merchant Houses are commoners whom havent always been around. They rose in the ranks to great Merchant Houses which means at sometime in the waaaaaaaaaaaaaay distant past they didnt know how to read and write. Someone taught them. I am not saying nowadays they learned it or the nobles have a problem with it. I am talking about the dark ages when they first emerged. *wink*  

Like I said, my nobles had it but I think I also said it MIGHT have been the class/subclass that I took that gave it to me. Not sure. That or the imm over my clan set me up with it.

Also, nobles have -lots- of money. I should think the last thing that they would be concerned with, is the price of anything.

Knowing Cavilish doesnt equate with wanting a cheaper price. *chuckles*

I also know of a certain noble house that taught some of it's concubines how to read and write cavilish.

[sarahjc]

I am sure someone somewhere taught a merchant how to read and write, but who says it was a noble house *wink*. Also those noble houses came from somewhere a long, long time ago as well. Who knows.. Only the eye in the sky really, I'll say we can only guess.

As for noble houses teaching Cavilish. Again, I don't know too much about it. I am sure that was one -very- special case. Like I said, I don't think that it couldn't be learned. I just don't see the connection been Cavilish and ALL noble houses. I see it as handy, but no more handy then lets say Allundeen, which is far more useful.  

Maybe some houses have that connection, but maybe not all. I always looked at Cavilish as strictly a Merchant Language. Something that I don't think it should be mandate. I would asume that getting that language on your skill set has to do with what your skill set was. See as I how I've played and known a quite a few nobles that did not have it.

[mansa]

Here's my take on it.  Remember, if this is a new guild, then you will be set with a higher skill percentage than other characters, showing that you've put time and effort into the following skills.  At least, that's my take on it.  This way, you won't have to be sparring newbies, because you're a noble...a special app.

Noble Guild:

Psionic Powers:
Contact
Barrier

Combat Skills:
Dual Wield
Two Handed
Sheild Use

Perception Skills:
Forage  
Scan - Low, cap dependable on subclass
Listen - Low, cap dependable on subclass

Language skills:
Sirihish
RW Sirihish
 
Craft skills:
Cooking
Analyze


Combat Subclass:
NEW SKILL:
BattleCry - Causes everyone clanned in your clan to flee, higher percentage makes everyone flee in the same direction.


Offence and Defense increased.
Slashing Weapons - Cap higher end - starting percentage dependable on age
Piercing Weapons - Cap higher end - starting percentage dependable on age
+ Two weapons skills that branch from those two.
Chopping Weapons - Cap midrange
Bludgeoning Weapons - Cap midrange
Backstab
Disarm
Flee
Guarding
Rescue
Parry
Throw
Bandage

Brew
Ride

Sword Making
Knife Making

Scan - Able to detect mildly skilled rogues
Listen - Not able to listen to whispers or in another room



Stealth Subclass:[/b]
NEW SKILL:
Disguise - Causes you to change your main description and sdesc into something different, with notable timer before affect.  Can only change in a 'safe' room, much like the tattoo code.

Piercing Weapons
Backstab
Throw
Flee

Sleight Of Hand
Steal
Hide
Peek
Pick
Search
Climb
Brew
Poisoning
Trap

Value
Haggle

Listen - Higher end of the ability
Scan - Higher end of the ability




Lore Subclass:
NEW SKILL:
One spell generated from a list of the starting spells of the 6 elementalists. (Remember, there is no nilaz)

Haggle
Sleight Of Hand
Peek
Brew
Value
Pilot
Search
Skin

Cavilish
RW Cavilish
Allundean
Mirukkim

Cooking Skill Raised
skill_floristry
skill_dyeing
skill_weaving
skill_woodworking
skill_leatherworking
skill_clothworking

Listen - Higher end of the ability
Scan - Higher end of the ability

[sarahjc]

Mansa: Once again you are my Hero. I REALLY like the new skills.. And I LOVE the BattleCry skill.

Love it! Love it! Could kiss and hug it. Love it.


The Pink Rhino loves up the BattleCry skill.

[Ayashah]

I am sure someone somewhere taught a merchant how to read and write, but who says it was a noble house *wink*. Also those noble houses came from somewhere a long, long time ago as well. Who knows.. Only the eye in the sky really, I'll say we can only guess.

Cool. I see you finally got where my point was coming from.  Usually the educated teach the uneducated and yep, nobles came from somewhere long long ago before the merchant houses came. *wink*

We can only guess and suppose which was what this was about. I still stand that the nobles would know cavilish. Maybe not all but definitely quite a few. I would see them wanting to learn cavilish before allundean. Who wants to talk to a filthy elf? In filthy elf tongue?!

RW Cavilish all the way baby! That way when you have to write up contracts and sign them with merchants, as I have in the past, you can actually know they didnt write:

"You filthy kank! I wouldnt trade squat with your skinny ass. Cant even get some curves from water with all the sid in the world!"

Handing the scroll over to Lord Fancypants, tone meek, you say in sirihish, "There, Lord Fancypants, the contract is written in full. I will take that huge bag of sid now and live up to my end of the deal. Thank you, Lord."

Think I've known half-giants with more brains! *evil mental cackles*

[Anonymous]

Contact, Barrier, Read and Write Sirihish, Sirihish and nothing else.  Not even flee.

No other language skills, no combat skills, no trading skills.  

That's if my interpretation of how lazy nobles are is correct.  Others seem to think of nobles as being given elite training in different areas.

To me a noble wouldn't deign to speak languages that are beneath them and wouldn't sully their hands with commoner tools such as a sword.  Wouldn't cook, wouldn't learn to haggle and wouldn't learn to keep a keen eye on the goings-on around them.

There are commoners and slaves to do these things, you see.  Maybe the lower tier houses would have things differently.

That's just my interpretation, though, I have no idea if I'm correct.

[Xamminy]

I don't want to argue with any of you.

Simply remember what I said about why.  Nobles can be 'taught' how to do things, but they will never be good at them, because they should NEVER practice them.  Nobles have guards to do combat.  The noble just need to know the theory.

Nobles should never spar except under extreme circumstances, and I've already said why.  Most people that play martial nobles spar.  This is bad.

[A One Time Martial Noble]

I don't want to argue with any of you.

Simply remember what I said about why.  Nobles can be 'taught' how to do things, but they will never be good at them, because they should NEVER practice them.  Nobles have guards to do combat.  The noble just need to know the theory.

Nobles should never spar except under extreme circumstances, and I've already said why.  Most people that play martial nobles spar.  This is bad.

I find this is very wrong...

Not only is it written in the documents of one House that certain nobles of the House train themselves routinely, but there is also a designated area for them to spar, with seperate, locked away weapons for the practices as well, to try and avoid any unlawful taintings. In this area, the common are -not- allowed at any time unless invited by a noble of that House; it is strictly for them to use with each other, as they are expected to learn. I cannot fathom having such a facility if it's not to be used, because it's wrong.

A person can only have so much in book smarts before 'on the job' trainingis a required fact for improvement, and assuredness of ability. And when it gets to that point, the militant nobles have only experience to turn to, which is provided in friendly skills of arms with their family. Not only does this enhance them further in the fact that they -are- better, but it also gives them true knowledge of situations at hand, so they won't look ignorant when training their men, or in the case they end up on the field of battle.

Now on the other hand, sparring with a commoner, I can agree would not be done, in any circumstance whatsoever. but from my experience with the militant Houses, very rarely are any of the members of them roly-poly, lazy, useless, ect... Most of them look for honor and dignity in being a great warrior.

In House Tor for instance, you'll see that the Red Scorpions have shoulder straps, with pins detailing their dominant abilities and leadership skills. Look at any Tor noble, and you'll see that they have one as well, albeit much more expensive looking.  These pins aren't earned by way of listening to another noble telling you how to do their job. They're earned by showing that the noble deserves it.