The Noble Skill Set

[jmordetsky]

Aight. That was an awesome post. But I do disagree...here's my 2.

* Nobles have children.

* Nobles like all organisms want their children to be successful, to have a an edge over the competition. Whether the competition be the kids in another house, their brother/cousin/uncles children etc.

* Nobles have the best (the only) access to education, training, knowledge, history etc.

The two of those statements being true, how could a noble with child not arm his or her offspring with every advantage possible. One of those being physical training and the art of war.

I just can't see a Tor or Borsail noble with a new baby *not* engineering the child's upbringing to insure that he/she is the pinnacle of what a human on zalanthas can be. A veritable Zalanthan renaissance man.

That said, it is completely human for individuals to want to dominate one another physically. Jousting, wrestling, any sports (some base, some refined) etc. This is basic human instinct, some wil gravitate toward intrigue and other to sport. Zalanthan nobles are supposed to be devoid of desire for sport. I find this dull.

I mean are we to believe Nobles are completely above any human instincts for physical competition? Even as sport? Does no noble ever have a desire to hunt? Perhaps with a tremendous escort...but nonetheless.

Now honestly? I don't think nobles not sparing or casting is about anything IC. I think it's about keeping nobles out of their estates and interacting with other nobles to keep plots rolling. Which is important. The game would lick nutz if nobles spent days on end sparring at their estates.

But if thats the case....twink their stats. Nobles *should* be better at everything. Make their skills reflect such...They won't need to spar.

*edit spelling...

[Linedel]

Regarding whether "nobility" (or, say, people whose parents have infinite resources and desire to educate them well...) should have any more or less skills than any other man or woman, I have two words:

Paris Hilton.

Draw your own conclusions and/or extrapolations.

[Angela Christine]

I can see nobles getting almost every skill on thier skill list with low skill caps (including genteel crafts, but not heavy labour crafts like lumberjacking).  As everyone knows, you don't have to use a skill just because you have it.  A wide range of low-cap skills would enable a typical dilletente to dabble in many things, without ever gaining mastery.  You can learn a little about a lot of things just from reading about it.


On the other hand, I like the current system because you never know just what a particular noble might be capable of.  If there was a noble guild, eventually many people would know exactly what skills the average noble has.  For the same reason, I think it is very poor to say on the boards that most nobles are guild X, that should probably be edited out.


AC

[xX_Cathedral_Xx]

But if thats the case....twink their stats. Nobles *should* be better at everything. Make their skills reflect such...They won't need to spar.

*edit spelling...

I'll have to agree with jmordetsky on that point. This Noble has been around for a while and usually is trained in war tactics and such.. Why not improve the Noble's skills upon acception of the application? Nothing to extreme, but certainly not something that lowly-est of newbie warriors could spank down.

[jhunter]

I don't think nobles not sparing or casting is about anything IC.

I agree. The IC reasons given just don't make much realistic sense IMO. In fact the reasoning makes it more unbelievable.

[Twilight]

What I just don't see from the explanation is the transition from junior noble to senior noble.  It seems to be that you encourage lazy behavior in the junior nobles, but then the senior nobles have to actually manage the House, so they would have needed a background that would get them there....

How does that work?  Because while most/any PCs may not become senior nobles, that should not be predetermined.  So where in all this is the mechanism to train the senior nobles?  Because from the decription of the junior ones, you are not going to have people who when they are older are able to run the House.

[Ayashah]

Regarding whether "nobility" (or, say, people whose parents have infinite resources and desire to educate them well...) should have any more or less skills than any other man or woman, I have two words:

Paris Hilton.

Draw your own conclusions and/or extrapolations.

All I can say is...ROFLMAO

First off, America is NOT Zalanthas. Second, she doesnt have to worry about assassination attempt from another House every day she steps out the door nor the chance of Tuluk/Nak attacking daily.

So on, so forth....and ROFLMAO

[My 2 sids]

I'd also love to see them have their own guild if for no other reason that none of the other guilds seem to suit them well.

Warrior:  I used to think that nobles should have warrior guilds (after all historically, most nobility was educated in such arts) but then it occurred to me that there is a big difference between templars and nobility.  So although I could see templars (maybe even Tor) having knowledge of combat, other nobles I just don't see having the background or need for it.

Rouge:  This class is mostly based on the idea one can "fit in" with the landscape.  How any pampered person who usually will demand a room's attention could "fit in" I'm not seeing it.

Merchant:  This one is tricky.  Although I realize it's a natural choice for many nobles, a noble is not a merchant.  I just don't see nobles watching trends/fads, carrying to know enough about supply and demand laws, or taking the time to learn this supposedly well-kept secretive language to justify picking merchant as a guild. Besides that, it seems hypocritical to give people who have TONS of money to flaunt (every PC merchant knows it is the nobility who can afford top price) a skill of haggle where as they try to cheapen prices.

Ranger:  Well, "roughing it" by venturing out of the city gates in an estate like wagon with only twelve or so guards shouldn't bring about knowledge of how to live off the land.


Personally (so we don't have to invent new skills) I'd much rather see nobles given upped skills on a few subclass type things.  Languages, Bard skills, archery, maybe some crafting skills... anything that would reflect an idea that nobility has the time and resources to peruse more "hobby" type knowledge.  To this extent I agree that any skills given to nobility be fairly high.  These are the people who would have time and resources (tutors, best equipment, etc).

[jmordetsky]

Regarding whether "nobility" (or, say, people whose parents have infinite resources and desire to educate them well...) should have any more or less skills than any other man or woman, I have two words:

Paris Hilton.

Draw your own conclusions and/or extrapolations.

Truth. No arguement there, for each paris hilton, I bet I can give you 3 yale/harvard grads that are ceo of major corporations.

[Linedel]

Sure.. Ms. Hilton is extreme, but for every Yale CEO, there are three completely normal ones, with no exceptional skills or accomplishments whatsoever.

Actually, there was a documentry a few years ago.. one of those children of um.. means? wealth? whatever you want to call it, did on a dozen others.. I can't remember the name of it, or the guy that did it, but it was interesting.  Talk about a bunch of pathetic losers...

I've changed my mind since I posted that though.. I was suggesting that no change is necessary, as someone is a product of random chance and environment just as much as forced "education" that they may or may not realize is actually crucial to their future...

My current opinion is - sure, make a noble class.  Give it:

sirihish.  (fluency, NOT literacy)

Everything else should be set by an immortal at character creation, based on a proposed list that matches a detailed background that the character writes up.  Advanced/long skill lists would require a) a pretty damn good justification in the history, and b) karma or some other reason why they should be trusted.  No need to do anything complicated.  (sirihish read/write would be determined by background.)

Other than if something targeted were done, I see no reason to change anything.  Class is simply what your character might someday be good at... if people are powergaming their noble, the solution is not to add more content, but rather to instruct the offending players how to roleplay...  (or make the selection criteria stricter.)

[proxie]

Perhaps nobles do have large lists of hobbies, even materials to persue their interests, teachers, hunters to gather odd specimens... what I don't see a noble having is the willpower to finish anything themselves.

So you've got Lord Oash with his extensive hobby list, and a whole storeroom/closet/den full of the interest of the week.  Perhaps half a crate of brewables, some half carved blocks of wood, a few precious and semi precious stones from when he decided he simply had to give jewelrymaking a try, clothworking, and a few dozen half started manuscripts.  The suit of perfectly crafted armor and splendid swords collecting dust in the corner from when he thought it'd be smashing to distinguish himself militarily.  And of course, the spice collection and rare alcohols stashed amongst that stuff. These people live a life of luxury that commonfolk couldn't even begin to imagine. Why would they ever bother finishing something? It's certainly not to sell it.


I know of one noble that wrote a book, another that did poetry. And this was before crafting. Sparring used to bring down the wrath of senior members of the house, and rightfully so, except under specific circumstances, because it's SO simple for your local noble to hire the best fighter in the game and get a few easily earned skillpoints, then go and start picking fights like they're big and tough. MAYBE the teach command is usable in a situation where Lord Tor wants to learn the art of the gypsy slashing weaponry from an expert, but sparring? Right out.


A lot of a noble's 'skills' aren't codable. Some that I think are necessary are listen, maybe city sneak depending on background, flee/retreat, possibly scan, and a decent defense score with a minimal skill in a chosen weapon (probably daggers since they're small). Good contact, reasonable barrier. One crafting skill, maybe even brought up to the point where the person can reasonably carve/whittle/work stone without too many failures, but not to the level of masterwork, and let them roleplay the other skills they want to pretend to be interested in. And of course, RW Sirihish, perhaps one other language, depending on background, but with one or two exceptions, there aren't any written forms of other languages that a noble would reasonably know.

I've played one blood noble and one that married in, back when you could do such a thing. In both cases, anytime I used combat, I shouldn't have been using it. It was ridiculous, looking back. In fact, with exception of the perception skills, any time I used a skill I should have gotten spanked, and sometimes I did.  

Bluntly, a lot of this game you CAN play without skills. It's always all about perception. Why should it be any different for a social class that's all about perception?


--proxie

[marko]

Let me first put this up front - I've not gone through all the posts on the subject.

My own belief is that nobles should have no skills other than:

contact
barrier
ride
pilot
sirihish
RW Sirihish

maybe analyze.

That's it.

Certain nobles may have other skills based on their backgrounds (ie, northern nobles might be rangers, while some Tors may be warriors) but that can be class dependant.

The vast majority of nobles, to me, should have no skills other than RP ones.  When I played a noble with 0 skills it was one of my best roles ever - it forced me into the mindset of a noble and kept me there without ever wandering to do something coded.  

Nobles grow up in luxury, they grow up in decadence, they grow up in a position of power and leisure.  There is no place for coded skills - even crafting skills.  An occassional noble might take up a particular craft but the reality is - such mundane activities are far beneath them.  Instead, they would design or dream up their product and have slaves or skilled artisans make the item.

[halfhuman]

I think that there should be various sub-classes of nobles.
Looking at history, you've got yourself all kinds of kings.
you've got warrior kings, scholar kings, poetic kings, gay kings that want their significant others to be military strategists (that is until they SO is thrown out the window by an overbearing father)

I think you should definately plan for a warrior type noble, a merchant/economic leader type noble, a scholarly wisdom type noble, and some sort of builder/craft type noble.

[Tamarin]

I think if a noble skillset were to pop up, it was have to necessarily consist of skills that are 100% exclusive to nobles.   I have no clue what this would include, as the only noble I've ever played was a bastard, a role which I think is appropriate to use one of the regular classes.