Subguild w/ Ranger 'Vision'

[MarshallDFX]

>look
A crappy cave.  It's not quit safe, but you can quit anywhere now.

>Glancing over his shoulder axiously, the wiry, skittish man crouches in the corner of the cave, wimpering.
>Feeling scared, you think:
   "Please don't find me.  Please don't find me."
>assess me
The wiry, skittish man is in poor condition.
The wiry, skittsh man looks tired.

>The wiry skittish man clutches at his wounds.
>Quit
You are too excited to leave just yet!
The wiry skittish man whimpers.
>Quit now
You will quit the game in 5 minutes, unless something interrupts you.
...
...
...
...
The behemoth, wild-eyed mutant has arrived from the outside.
>
Intently looking about, breath laboured, the behemoth, wild-eyed mutant looks at you.
>
Roaring, the behemoth, wild-eyed mutant comes storming towards you.
>
The wiry, skittish man folds his hands in prayer
>
Tone calm, slowly fading into the ethereal, the wiry skittish man says:
   "The Highlord saves me this day.

...

Thanks for playing!
The wiry, skittish man has departed the land of Zalanthas.

[Spoon]

I'm of the opinion that wilderness quit and traveling through storms are two of the things that make rangers rangers. The ability to quit anywhere simply reflects a ranger's skill to survive indefinitely in the wilds.

A ranger possesses two primary abilities: to know where she is at all times...

Caravan guides are skilled in desert travel

I think there's quite a difference between these two. One points at piloting and riding, the other points at a guild defining ability.

[X-D]

The fact that quitting is OOC is exactly the reason only rangers can quit anywhere and other guilds cannot.

Because the PC is NOT leaving the world, but instead becoming a VNPC.

Now the question is, Does that VNPC have the skillset to camp out in the wild for indefinite lengths of time?

If they are not a ranger then the answer to that is a very simple..NO.

Hence the MANY wilderness quit safe rooms, all of these are sheltered and most are at or near ready supplies of food and water for your PC to virtually take advantage of.

[Bushranger]

FantasyWriter - Is that... a halfling caravan guide? That is so twinky (and such an awesome picture  )

[FantasyWriter]

FantasyWriter - Is that... a halfling caravan guide? That is so twinky (and such an awesome picture  )

Specially skilled Halfling twinks leading secret Tuluki caravans when there are no guild_rangers around is the real reason why Tuluk never declares war on them.

[Synthesis]

FantasyWriter - Is that... a halfling caravan guide? That is so twinky (and such an awesome picture  )

Specially skilled Halfling twinks leading secret Tuluki caravans when there are no guild_rangers around is the real reason why Tuluk never declares war on them.

Actually, that's an optical illusion.

The man on the donkey is roughly the same size as every other man in the painting.  The ones on the camels look a little larger because they're riding side-saddle, so their legs are dangling farther down.

[Cerelum]

FantasyWriter - Is that... a halfling caravan guide? That is so twinky (and such an awesome picture  )

Specially skilled Halfling twinks leading secret Tuluki caravans when there are no guild_rangers around is the real reason why Tuluk never declares war on them.

No, Muk shows himself to the halflings and they fall in love like a pastry chef who can't eat the cake he's created... Similar to the reverence on humans, but in a way that stops them from killing him.

[jmordetsky]

The fact that quitting is OOC is exactly the reason only rangers can quit anywhere and other guilds cannot.

Because the PC is NOT leaving the world, but instead becoming a VNPC.

Now the question is, Does that VNPC have the skillset to camp out in the wild for indefinite lengths of time?

If they are not a ranger then the answer to that is a very simple..NO.

Hence the MANY wilderness quit safe rooms, all of these are sheltered and most are at or near ready supplies of food and water for your PC to virtually take advantage of.

I'm fine with this logic as well. But if this is true - why not increase the playability of the game, make that ability a learned skill and offer it to subguilds? Why does every ranger start with both of these "acquired" skills completely maxed?

Lets say Rangers start with two skills:

skill_camping
skill_storm_navigate

They have a 50% max start in both skills and a 100% max cap.

You could easily give the same two skills to sub guild Nomad with a 0% start and a 30% max cap.

If you did that, then you could make non-ranger characters that had the ability to camp out (quit) but the low skill has attached penalties (health, stam drain + delay before quit) and higher chance of fail for navigating storms. From this POV - Maxed Nomads will never be as good at living in the desert a n00b ranger and if the health/stam drain put you to "sleep required" levels in the case of a camp failure - then you have a serious detriment to "going vnpc" outdoors because you'll have to find a place to sleep to recover.

This just seems like a no-brainer to me in terms of increasing the over all playability of the game for non-diehards and people (like me) that have a job and a life to live outside of being idle in a storm for 5 straight hours. It retains the l33tness of rangers (I would argue rangers could start with both skills at 100% to further that) and it keeps the harshness of the wilds intact while stimulating travel to the cities as safe havens.

[Fnord]

I'm not opposed to a caravan guide having a lesser version of ranger vision, simply because they're called guides. Riding doesn't make you much of a guide if you get lost all over the place. Their skill might be somewhere in between the average PC and a ranger, i.e. a good chance to navigate a storm but not a flawless one. I'd then remove value from the guide's skill set. That might also make guide less useless, as everything else in their skill set can be learned over time.

Hell no on giving that to nomads. Nor do I like others being able to ranger quit. Find a quit room. They're everywhere.

Fact of the matter is that 90% of the skills in the game could realistically be learned by anyone given time. However, Arm is not set up that way. Guild skill set is a factor of game balance.

[X-D]

One other thing.

If you are not playing a ranger, make sure you have newbie on.

I played several rangers in a row some years back and had newbie off.

Then I played another class and for the first month, man, I was with the people that were complaining about the lack of quit rooms...Then I turned newbie on and...Well, They are everywhere. The only places I can think of where you are more then 10 rooms from a quit safe room are where you SHOULD be a long ways from safety.

[FuSoYa]

One other thing.

If you are not playing a ranger, make sure you have newbie on.

I played several rangers in a row some years back and had newbie off.

Then I played another class and for the first month, man, I was with the people that were complaining about the lack of quit rooms...Then I turned newbie on and...Well, They are everywhere. The only places I can think of where you are more then 10 rooms from a quit safe room are where you SHOULD be a long ways from safety.

There is a newbie flag?

What does turning it off or on do?  Or could you point me to a helpfile?

I'm genuinely confused and also /kind of/ trying to work or else I would search the Arm site.

Brandon

[X-D]

Gah, it has been years since I toggled it.


Not sure how to do it anymore, but it is just the toggle to turn the little info on or off at the top of a rdesc that states if the room is safe/quit and I think you can even turn off the exits.

[Gimfalisette]

Brief room?

[X-D]

Random room [N Quit]

You can turn the information inside [] on and off....not that I can remember how at the moment.

[Gimfalisette]

Brief novice?

[Cutthroat]

brief novice on/off

Off:
A Room [NESWUD Save Quit]

On:
A Room [NESWUD]

Despite the name, it is immensely useful for all kinds of players. edit: got off and on mixed up.

[eska]

I don't think both of the mentioned subguilds should have the ability move through the storms. I must disagree on caravan guides having the ranger ability mentioned because of the equality problems. No elf would ever want to have a subguild nomad or caravan guide. I hope you won't ask the reasons. If you're gonna ask for a change, please make it useful for everyone.

Subguild Caravan Guide     (Character)

Caravan guides are skilled in desert travel, whether it be on a mount or piloting a wagon. They are skilled in assessing goods, and most have learned at least a smattering of the nomadic tongue.

See Also:
   guilds, subguilds

And YAY! for scavengers having the "forage food"

[Xeran Van Houten]

Why should we care if it's "fair" for elves? They're elves.

[eska]

Why should we care if it's "fair" for elves? They're elves.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... right

[brytta.leofa]

I don't think both of the mentioned subguilds should have the ability move through the storms. I must disagree on caravan guides having the ranger ability mentioned because of the equality problems. No elf would ever want to have a subguild nomad or caravan guide. I hope you won't ask the reasons. If you're gonna ask for a change, please make it useful for everyone.

A desert elf warrior is already halfway to ranger (given that he doesn't need a mount, and his other racial abilities).  I don't mind being a little unfair to him in this case; haggle, bendune, and (limited) storm navigation is still a fine subguild package.

If anything, desert elves are an argument against making this a subguild skill at all.

[Cavaticus]

Well, here is my personal take on ranger "direction sense" in relation to other subguilds.

Just because you live in the desert doesn't mean that you're a tracker. If you're a member of your tribe who has been spending his whole life wandering the wastes by yourself to the point where this don't really bother you, then you're a ranger. If you're a scavenger who doesn't let something as inconsequential as this get in your way, then you're a ranger. If you're a caravan guide who can keep the caravan moving through one of these, then you're a ranger. If you're a caravan guide who says "holy fuck look at that storm - circle the mounts and get under cover until it passes!" then you're still a caravan guide. You're just not a ranger.

[Synthesis]

Well, here is my personal take on ranger "direction sense" in relation to other subguilds.

Just because you live in the desert doesn't mean that you're a tracker. If you're a member of your tribe who has been spending his whole life wandering the wastes by yourself to the point where this don't really bother you, then you're a ranger. If you're a scavenger who doesn't let something as inconsequential as this get in your way, then you're a ranger. If you're a caravan guide who can keep the caravan moving through one of these, then you're a ranger. If you're a caravan guide who says "holy fuck look at that storm - circle the mounts and get under cover until it passes!" then you're still a caravan guide. You're just not a ranger.

That's all well and good, but I think most people are asking the question:

Why is it that being able to "navigate in a sandstorm" automatically means that you're unable to say, "disarm an opponent" or "craft a tent?"  Why can't I have a tribal burglar who routinely travels through heinous sandstorms in order to loot things from the city and return them to his tribe? Is it unreasonable to suspect that someone with extensive combat training -also- has extensive experience traversing the desert?  Especially since persons with extensive combat training are pretty much the best at killing shit out in the desert?

I know it's basically a function of the class system, but one of the purposes of subguilds is to somewhat smooth the rough edges of the class system.  Sandstorm navigation is -hardly- a powerful subguild ability on its own, especially if it were made an actual skill, and was capped as low as most other subguild skills are.  You might have a 30% chance to successfully move in the right direction, on top of your 25% chance to randomly get it right...so now you're up to moving the right direction 55% of the time.  Not awesome, but definitely an improvement worth spending a subguild on, if you plan on say, living in Red Storm.

Further, if you tacked the ability only on nomads and caravan guides, I still strongly suspect that it wouldn't make those subguilds so overpowered that people would flock to them.  What's the big deal about adding a 30% capped sandstorm travel on top of bendune, tribal accent, spearmaking, and haggle?  Would anyone really be jizzing in their pants over that?  Would adding sandstorm navigation to pilot, increased ride, bendune, and value really make anyone totally rethink their min/max calculations?

With the new weather code, this would be only intermittently useful, and it's obviously something players have long since adapted to, because I've never heard anyone say, "Damn, I -have- to be a ranger, because this character concept -relies- on sandstorm nav."

[FantasyWriter]

No elf would ever want to have a subguild nomad or caravan guide.

Elves have a reason to be "guides."

1. Tricking non-elves into letting them be 'guided' by an elf.
2. Leading raiding parties.

[Synthesis]

No elf would ever want to have a subguild nomad or caravan guide.

Elves have a reason to be "guides."

1. Tricking non-elves into letting them be 'guided' by an elf.
2. Leading raiding parties.

After all, how would you lead your new slaves to Allanak to sell them, if you didn't have a caravan guide along?

[Twilight]

Just because you are a tracker, doesn't mean you are good in the desert.  Tracking has nothing to do with navigation.

I've had characters where those storms didn't bother them.  That doesn't mean they were a ranger.  Heck, even in the days before the dynamic direction shifting was linked to weather (ie when it was only around RS), I took non-rangers to the edge of the Silt Sea.  Fairly routinely.  It just didn't bother them -despite- the code, not because there was a mechanism in place to reflect their familiarity with those kinds of storms.  IMHO IC'ly they knew enough not to be bothered, OOC'ly the code hadn't caught up yet.