Eating and Drinking at Taverns

[John]

This is something that has always bugged me. If all the VNPCs acted in taverns the way that PCs do, the taverns would be out of business. IMO people who go into a tavern buy food and/or drink. Now that can get fairly expensive so I don't expect us players to always do it.

But eating at a tavern with food you brought yourself, at the bar with the bartender watching you, surely this can't be considered good RP? Am I the only one that thinks it rather rude to sit in a tavern, refuse to order anything and then when I get hungry or thirsty popping out my own food and drink?

[Beux]

I'm thinking the taverns in Arm are more like taverns of the 'old days', where they were less strict business' and more just places where people gathered socially. Yeah, they'd probably buy a drink or two, but I doubt having their own food would be a problem, as most of the common population would be accepted as 'too poor' to buy 'expensive' food.

[Larrath]

Unless I'm playing a character that doesn't give a shit or is very poor, I avoid eating food or drinking water in a tavern that I did not purchase in the same tavern.
I don't buy food and water there, though, because the prices are ridiculously high.  It might actually make sense to lower them, since most taverns are supposed to cater to a broader, poorer population.

I want meals for 10 'sids!

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I agree that food and drinks are way too much. A cup of ale, which doesn't quench your thirst, should be a few sid. Water should be the expensive thing, not brew. I should be able to play a drunk and not have a noble-house job.

[Cale_Knight]

Well, it would make zero sense for water to be more expensive than beer. Beer is water with a bunch of other stuff added to it.

I do agree that stuff in taverns is way too expensive, though.

[spawnloser]

I'm with Larrath.  I avoid eating or drinking in a tavern if I didn't pay for it there.

[Larrath]

Well, it would make zero sense for water to be more expensive than beer. Beer is water with a bunch of other stuff added to it.

When you sell water as water, people won't pay nearly as much if the water is dirty.  And since water is transparent, any dirt is very easy to detect.
Now, it's possible to take a barrel of water, bathe in it, and then brew it into beer.  Or wash your clothes (moderately wealthy Zalanthans and up most likely do that, particularly merchants), or use it for cooking or cleaning the apartment.

[Morfeus]

I -usually- avoid it too. I say usually because sometime... sometime I have IC reasons to do otherwise. I had a char who ate -only- fruits and spent hours and hours in one particular tavern. She would buy a drink at the bar and then eat her fruits. I don't think the bartender would care because she spent quite a lot of coin there on drinks. But usually I simply don't eat in taverns at all.

[Anonymous]

Well, it would make zero sense for water to be more expensive than beer. Beer is water with a bunch of other stuff added to it.

When you sell water as water, people won't pay nearly as much if the water is dirty.  And since water is transparent, any dirt is very easy to detect.
Now, it's possible to take a barrel of water, bathe in it, and then brew it into beer.  Or wash your clothes (moderately wealthy Zalanthans and up most likely do that, particularly merchants), or use it for cooking or cleaning the apartment.

Zalanthanian commoners don't do much bathing, from what I understand.

But if beer is made from tainted water, would YOU drink it? Knowing that it may have been used to wipe a baby's bottom first? Only out of pure desperation.

Also, if they're trying to pass the beer off as acceptable for consumption, they wouldn't lower the price.

[Marauder Moe]

Well, it would make zero sense for water to be more expensive than beer. Beer is water with a bunch of other stuff added to it.

Nonsense.  Theres places even today where beer is cheaper than drinkable water (the only alternative being nasty tap water).

Water goes bad, but the alcohol in beer is a preservative, hence why historically people in some places would quite often drink far more beer and ale than actual water.

[Anonymous kank with wings]

I think the prices are a leftover from the time that one couldn't actually starve to death.

Very little of the food sold is really all that affordable, at least to people who aren't nobles aides and such. Even they probably don't buy food at the Silver Ginka very often.

[flaran]

I think that beer should cost less, personally.

[jcarter]

This is something that has always bugged me. If all the VNPCs acted in taverns the way that PCs do, the taverns would be out of business. IMO people who go into a tavern buy food and/or drink. Now that can get fairly expensive so I don't expect us players to always do it.

But eating at a tavern with food you brought yourself, at the bar with the bartender watching you, surely this can't be considered good RP? Am I the only one that thinks it rather rude to sit in a tavern, refuse to order anything and then when I get hungry or thirsty popping out my own food and drink?

That leaves us with two logical conclusions:

1)People should buy tavern food and eat it. At those prices, I don't see this happening.

2)People should stand, walk north, eat bread, walk south, sit. Just seems a little dumb to me.

If we want to get really anal about things, then it should also be considered bad form to even be sitting in a tavern without buying things. Why would the tavern owners even want those people in there, if they're just going to be taking up space?

In the end, taverns are one of those things were we suspend our disbelief.

[John]

2)People should stand, walk north, eat bread, walk south, sit. Just seems a little dumb to me.

That's exactly what I do. Although I'm a bit better then "n; eat cake; eat cake; eat cake; s." I'll go for a walk, look at a few stores.

In the end, taverns are one of those things were we suspend our disbelief.

I'm willing to suspend it to a degree for playability, but there's a line. IMO eating your own food in a tavern without buying anything crosses that line.

[Sephiroto]

I believe that the cost of food and such should be balanced considering that the cost of food has stayed the same even though:
:arrow:  Thirst and hunger values have been greatly increased over the past few years and...
:arrow:  The time bug was fixed which now means that Joe the Salarri Hunter still makes 300 coins an IC month but now that month takes twice as long RL

As it is poor Joe the Salarri Hunter can only afford to buy 10 of those 29'sid ales and not even have enough left to buy a sack of flour unless he's got a smooth tongue and can barter.

[jcarter]

In the end, taverns are one of those things were we suspend our disbelief.

I'm willing to suspend it to a degree for playability, but there's a line. IMO eating your own food in a tavern without buying anything crosses that line.[/quote]

How does taking a bite out of something cross the line but sitting and taking up space doesn't? Both have the same IC effect on the tavern: someone's taking up space and not bringing in any money. I'd expect the barkeeper to be just as likely to yell at the person taking up space as well as the person munching.

[Anonymous kank with wings]

2)People should stand, walk north, eat bread, walk south, sit. Just seems a little dumb to me.

That's exactly what I do. Although I'm a bit better then "n; eat cake; eat cake; eat cake; s." I'll go for a walk, look at a few stores.

In the end, taverns are one of those things were we suspend our disbelief.

I'm willing to suspend it to a degree for playability, but there's a line. IMO eating your own food in a tavern without buying anything crosses that line.

The Gaj even provides ovens and cooking pits for people to prepare their own food in. Doesn't that say something about the nature of the Zalanthanian tavern?

If you're in Trader's, then I agree. But not in the common person's bar.

[Anonymous kank with wings]

Also, the taverns as they stand don't resemble a tavern in old England in that the food sold is presented as more as a tasty mouthful than a standard fare. Erdlu wings for 40 coins and an mostly empty stomach? Where is the bread, butter and a hunk of cheese, plus a bowl of dubious stew, or its Zalanthanian equivalent?

[John]

The Gaj even provides ovens and cooking pits for people to prepare their own food in. Doesn't that say something about the nature of the Zalanthanian tavern?

IMO the Gaj is only a small step above a 'rinthi bar (in fact the only reason it's a step above a 'rinthi bar is because it isn't located in the 'rinth). But yes, the Gaj is definitely an exception. But the Bard's Barrel? Try going to their kitchen and cook something, but make sure you wish up as you do.

[John]

How does taking a bite out of something cross the line but sitting and taking up space doesn't? Both have the same IC effect on the tavern: someone's taking up space and not bringing in any money. I'd expect the barkeeper to be just as likely to yell at the person taking up space as well as the person munching.

A playability line. Sorry I thought that was obvious. For playability sakes yeah, I ignore the fact most don't buy anything (most can't afford to). But when they flaunt it in the face of the bartender, then it seems a line has been crossed (IMO) that goes from ignoring something due to playability concerns and just flaunting your out of character behaviour (as IMO it is OOC to not buy anything in a tavern and just sit there, but is ignored for playabilities sake).

[jcarter]

How does taking a bite out of something cross the line but sitting and taking up space doesn't? Both have the same IC effect on the tavern: someone's taking up space and not bringing in any money. I'd expect the barkeeper to be just as likely to yell at the person taking up space as well as the person munching.

A playability line. Sorry I thought that was obvious. For playability sakes yeah, I ignore the fact most don't buy anything (most can't afford to). But when they flaunt it in the face of the bartender, then it seems a line has been crossed (IMO) that goes from ignoring something due to playability concerns and just flaunting your out of character behaviour (as IMO it is OOC to not buy anything in a tavern and just sit there, but is ignored for playabilities sake).

If someone was waving it around in front of the bar tender and going na na na, then why don't you just wish up about it?

[flurry]

Yeah, I've kind of favored the community center idea of taverns, rather than simply a business that expects you to buy something or get out.   That's not to say they won't ever get on your case for not spending money, but I think they'd be fairly laid back about it unless you annoyed them for some other reason.

I agree that, in most cases, the prices seem way too high, compared to what PCs get paid.   Are you going to spend 10% of your monthly pay on one drink?  Or maybe there just need to be more low end food/drink options in the taverns.

[Medena]

Regarding the Barrel and the Traders:

I figure the Barrel makes the most of its money from the gambling upstairs and then another chunk from kickbacks from its resident bard and other performers.  

The Traders probably makes a LOT of money from the rooms upstairs. And I'll bet the higher-class prostitutes who use them give a hefty kickback too.  And, actually, merchants do buy food and drink in there quite frequently. Nobles don't too much but why would they? They have far superior cooks and wine cellars back at their estates. And they probably figure they are doing the establishment a large favour by even being there.

[path]

If food and/or ale cost less in the bars and taverns, I would certainly buy my food and booze there more often, as at this point I don't.

Whether people should eat things they bring in themselves? I mean...I can't be the only one who sneaks cokes into movie theaters from time to time becauce I'm cheap. Heh heh. Sometimes I even bring a flask into bars. But regardless,  mainly I think this is a nit picking sort of thing.

I certainly don't think it's any kind of twinking and I do believe people should roleplay as well/deeply as they can/see fit and hope to raise the bar for others ingame.

The outside food issue can probably be rationalized in character in a way that satisfies me and I'm not going to go into the various reasons in which that situation could arise, as in my opinion they are manifold.

[Dalmeth]

Well, some people complain how independent commoners are often so rich.  It's because they buy the cheapest food and water available.