Eating and Drinking at Taverns

[Jherlen]

That argument doesn't work at all - clanned characters get food and water for free.

[Dalmeth]

Clanned characters have miniscule fixed incomes.  It explains it perfectly.

[Cuusardo]

I think part of the reason people aren't buying food at the tavern is because the overpriced food is not as filling as its cheaper, craftable counterparts.

And I'm sorry, but beer is not just water with stuff added.  Neither is wine.  Both of them also tend to dehydrate a person, unlike water.

[Tamarin]

The issue of tavern food being overpriced is not an isolated thing.  It is one component of the overall economic system of the game which is itself completely out of whack.  Changing the way food exists in the game would mean overhauling a bunch of other stuff as well.

I think it would be a good overhaul, mind you.  I just wish someone would take the time to study the economics and readjust things to make them more realistic.

[Cale_Knight]

And I'm sorry, but beer is not just water with stuff added.  Neither is wine.  Both of them also tend to dehydrate a person, unlike water.

Obviously. My point is that the ingredients it takes to make beer, wine, or even liquor are going to be much more expensive than a like amount of water, regardless of the actual physical effects of drinking it.

As for the arguments about using bathwater to brew beer... I'm fairly sure that simply wouldn't work. Even using a dirty bucket is likely to screw up the brewing process, let alone using filthy water.

[Jherlen]

Well, some people complain how independent commoners are often so rich.  It's because they buy the cheapest food and water available.

Independents are not rich because they're buying cheap food and water. It can't possibly be because of this, because clanned PCs get it even cheaper, and yet are not rich.

Independents are rich because you can make vastly more than 400 coins in 2 RL weeks, even after you take food expenses into account.

[EonBlueApocalypse]

Not to steer off course from the original situation presented in this thread, but I definitely agree that food and drink costs should be lowered.  It seems out of proportion to the economy.  I can go out and buy a weapon or armor for the same price I'd spend on an ale.  Given that water is a sparse commodity in this world, I still agree that it is out of proportion.

Now, as for eating in front of a bartender in his establishment?  Use discretion.  Whipping out a steak and ocotillo meal?  Naw.  Eating some fruit or some other trifle?  Don't see why they'd care.  You bring your dinner plate to a real bar, and you're likely to get booted.  But if you pull out a cookie, you might get a second look, but no more.

[John]

Independents are rich because you can make vastly more than 400 coins in 2 RL weeks, even after you take food expenses into account.

If they didn't eat the cheapest food (which I personally believe many PCs do) they wouldn't be as rich though.

[Ghost]

In one of the stories in Armageddon website, a patron complains why the ale is 3 sid that night.  He says he only has 4 sids.

Something that made me curious though.  That is exactly what should happen in zalanthas.  Ale should be much much cheaper (like 3 sid) and you should be able to be a drunk beggar even if you can't afford water.

[Nao]

And I'm sorry, but beer is not just water with stuff added.  Neither is wine.  Both of them also tend to dehydrate a person, unlike water.

As for the arguments about using bathwater to brew beer... I'm fairly sure that simply wouldn't work. Even using a dirty bucket is likely to screw up the brewing process, let alone using filthy water.

It was done and it worked just fine - stuff tasted horribly but people bought it anyway - I can clean, pure watewr being really expensive and the less quality stuff being used to make cheap beer - this would fit just great into the Gaj.

[veryalien]

Fix spice and tavern prices. In commoner areas everything should be 10 sids or less. It costs twenty sid to keep my kank stabled indefinetly.

Make PC templars and militia kick out grubby sand travellers from nice places that are expensive.

[veryalien]

Independents are not rich because they're buying cheap food and water. It can't possibly be because of this, because clanned PCs get it even cheaper, and yet are not rich.

Independents are rich because you can make vastly more than 400 coins in 2 RL weeks, even after you take food expenses into account.

This should probably be a topic on its own. Independants risk more than clanned PCs who get a fixed salary to remain within the confines of civilization. If you're being sent out to travel a lot start asking for cuts from the profits.

This is very similar to the way long distance trading took place in renaissance Europe and medieval Asia.

[Fnord]

My feeling is that taverns should carry a wider range of prices. Cheap food (couple sid) should be gross. Expensive food should be nicer. (That way it can be a money sink for anyone of any financial bracket, yay imms!)

Certain taverns would carry a range from cheap to expensive. Other places would only have cheap or expensive, so you knew what kind of crowds to expect. Want to mingle with everyone? Go to the Barrel. Want crass fun, go to the Gaj. Want to get away from broke dicks, go to the Trader's.

If things were structured in such a way, nobody would have an excuse to be loitering and never drinking or eating.

[Alamos]

Most of my characters when they visit a tavern will feel some obligation of patronage.  This is because they probably realize that tavernkeepers have some expectation of business.  Therefore, I will usually throw down some coins for a drink or two.  In these taverns that are often busy and crowded, it's the equivalent of 'paying' for your seat when you would otherwise get your ass thrown out to make space for a potential customer.  It's like a day pass.

As for buying food in taverns, if you've ever had to cook or forage for three meals a day, every week, you might find it quickly becomes more than a small annoyance.  As such, my characters will occassionally treat themselves to a prepared meal at a tavern if only to have some respite from slicing and dicing and burning and baking.  In this case, you're paying for convenience.  And sometimes, heck, your character just has a thing for this one dish at Amos's Chaltonhouse.  What's his recipe???

Now, the topic of prices is a bit trickier.  The more my characters struggle to collect the bare necessities, the more I tend to enjoy playing them.  A good day for me is when my character is forced to choose between a pissy ale, a gulp of water, or a (mostly) roasted tuber, and ends up going for one more pinch of spice instead.  I realize that sort of style is not meant for everyone.  I also realize price inflation is not necessarily the best way to reach a gritty environment.  That being said, I think everyone who hasn't closely read the documentation on Senate proposals in Allanak might find some clues as to why ale simply isn't being sold at cost + markup.  Perhaps it's as much as an IC issue as it is an OOC one?

[Aldiel]

This is something that has always bugged me. If all the VNPCs acted in taverns the way that PCs do, the taverns would be out of business. IMO people who go into a tavern buy food and/or drink. Now that can get fairly expensive so I don't expect us players to always do it.

But eating at a tavern with food you brought yourself, at the bar with the bartender watching you, surely this can't be considered good RP? Am I the only one that thinks it rather rude to sit in a tavern, refuse to order anything and then when I get hungry or thirsty popping out my own food and drink?

Dude, this is a really good point, although I think if I ate food every time I went to the bar, I'd be out of my 300 sid a month paycheck in less than a week.

On a serious note though, I would like to try eating and drinking more when I'm at a tavern since that's really what it's about.  I just never really thought about it, honestly.  This post made me think.  I like posts like this that remind me how I can be a better RPer.

[Saphreal]

And sometimes, heck, your character just has a thing for this one dish at Amos's Chaltonhouse.  What's his recipe???

Feck, ya, I can't do without my spicy tandu wings!

[Anonymous kank with wings]

If you're looking for a really excellent way to keep people out of taverns, demanding that they buy something every time they show up is it.

[John]

If you're looking for a really excellent way to keep people out of taverns, demanding that they buy something every time they show up is it.

Which wasn't what I said at all.

[Anonymous kank with wings]

If you're looking for a really excellent way to keep people out of taverns, demanding that they buy something every time they show up is it.

Which wasn't what I said at all.

No, but you didn't offer a solution either, other than the implicit "hahaha I get to call you a twink for eating your own food in a tavern!".  :lol:

[John]

If you're looking for a really excellent way to keep people out of taverns, demanding that they buy something every time they show up is it.

Which wasn't what I said at all.

No, but you didn't offer a solution either, other than the implicit "hahaha I get to call you a twink for eating your own food in a tavern!".  :lol:

When hungry either a) buy something from the tavern or b) go outside and eat (although standing outside the tavern door is just tacky. Pretend you have an errand to run. Perhaps go to another tavern for a while. Perhaps go do whatever your job is. Leave the tavern for whatever reason and on your way to wherever, eat and drink).

[Anonymous kank with wings]

If you're looking for a really excellent way to keep people out of taverns, demanding that they buy something every time they show up is it.

Which wasn't what I said at all.

No, but you didn't offer a solution either, other than the implicit "hahaha I get to call you a twink for eating your own food in a tavern!".  :lol:

When hungry either a) buy something from the tavern or b) go outside and eat (although standing outside the tavern door is just tacky. Pretend you have an errand to run. Perhaps go to another tavern for a while. Perhaps go do whatever your job is. Leave the tavern for whatever reason and on your way to wherever, eat and drink).

Ah, so you do want people to buy their food in the tavern. Since we both agree that eating out on the street, especially in the middle of a raging sandstorm, is rather tacky, and given that a lot of characters don't necessarily have a home to go to. Not to mention the difficulty of holding a normal conversation among several different people each at their own point on the relentless hunger and thirst countdown. "Excuse me, Bob, but I have to walk across the city to eat this travelcake before I faint with hunger. I'll be back in two hours".  :lol:

Sorry, but it doesn't work. Can we dismiss the issue now?

[John]

Since we both agree that eating out on the street, especially in the middle of a raging sandstorm, is rather tacky, and given that a lot of characters don't necessarily have a home to go to. Not to mention the difficulty of holding a normal conversation among several different people each at their own point on the relentless hunger and thirst countdown. "Excuse me, Bob, but I have to walk across the city to eat this travelcake before I faint with hunger. I'll be back in two hours".  :lol:

Sorry, but it doesn't work. Can we dismiss the issue now?

No. Because I do do this. It's called playing the role. If I'm so poor I can't afford an apartment (and I'm unclanned) I'll roleplay being poor. I'll roleplay being homeless. That means having to suffer the difficulties in being homeless. And there are always narrow alleyways (check the direction of the wind, then head to an alleyway that has a wall blocking the direction the wind's coming from). If you can't tell the direction, pick a narrow alleyway and just go there. Go in the receess of a doorway. Go "window shopping" and eat while you enter stalls and tents. Interrupting a conversation is an unfortunate consequence. It's called roleplaying.

I prefer actually roleplaying my circumstances rather then just ignoring the virtual and NPC world of the game.

[Alamos]

I believe, like John, that this is an issue that can be solved with the notorious creativity a desperate, poor, and hungry individual possesses without comprimising gameplay by completely 'dismissing' the unfortunate consequences of a filthy life or ignoring the likely preferences of a tavern owner.

My practical suggestion would be not to insult players when they do eat or drink their own supply in a tavern (or, for that matter, dissuade them from discussing the subject on this forum), but to provide example to others with displays of creative roleplaying; which is what this thread should also function as - a discussion of methods seeking harmony with the environment, rather than forgoing it.

[Anonymous kank with wings]

No. Because I do do this. It's called playing the role. If I'm so poor I can't afford an apartment (and I'm unclanned) I'll roleplay being poor. I'll roleplay being homeless. That means having to suffer the difficulties in being homeless. And there are always narrow alleyways (check the direction of the wind, then head to an alleyway that has a wall blocking the direction the wind's coming from). If you can't tell the direction, pick a narrow alleyway and just go there. Go in the receess of a doorway. Go "window shopping" and eat while you enter stalls and tents. Interrupting a conversation is an unfortunate consequence. It's called roleplaying.

I prefer actually roleplaying my circumstances rather then just ignoring the virtual and NPC world of the game.

Well, I don't accept this position in this particular context, because it's too unworkable. My opinion is that if the bartender or someone else takes issue with my character eating a travelcake in his tavern, he'll get a snappy retort along the lines of "What th' feck? When this place starts offurin' some food at a price a common feck can affurd, then I'sle start feckin' buying it! Fur Krath's sakes, what yur complainin' for? Yur already got all the 'sid I can spare on yur kank-piss ale this month anyhow. And if I ain't here and my friend Bob comes by, well, he'll just leave rather then buying yur kank-piss ale either! And look around, ain't like there's 'xactly a lack of seats to plant some butts in! Krath, just get out of my face."

Give us a "two penny ordinary" to buy at taverns and then I'll agree with you on this.

[Alamos]

Now, as for eating in front of a bartender in his establishment?  Use discretion.  Whipping out a steak and ocotillo meal?  Naw.  Eating some fruit or some other trifle?  Don't see why they'd care.

This seems fair.