HRPT - What We Learned

[RunningMountain]

I don't think either city considers their god omnipotent... just very very potent.  If they were omnipotent, why would the other city still exist?

The idea that god is all-powerful and all-knowing isn't a feature of all religions.

Besides, why would it be a problem that their god "let" it happen?  Their side  won, afterall.

I dunno, just pointing it out. I guess it doesn't matter.

[Delirium]

I don't think either city considers their god omnipotent... just very very potent.  If they were omnipotent, why would the other city still exist?

The idea that god is all-powerful and all-knowing isn't a feature of all religions.

Besides, why would it be a problem that their god "let" it happen?  Their side  won, afterall.

I dunno, just pointing it out. I guess it doesn't matter.

Obviously it was a test of their strength from their Gods themselves.

[Jherlen]

Maybe the conflict wasn't large enough for either god-king to care about. This was armies of about 2000 people fighting in the desert, not the Dragon assaulting Tuluk or the dwarves seiging Allanak for a year. I don't think Muk/Tek care enough about about their very mortal followers to get involved in every single dinky little war that they fight.

And on an OOC note, nothing would probably spoil the event more for PCs involved than to have a superpowerful sorceror-king show up and steal the show. If you want a scripted plot event where that happens, fine, but otherwise I wouldn't bring the supernatural superbeings into play in what is otherwise supposed to be an event decided by player actions.

[Ghost]

I am not really sure if I am right at the numbers but I thought each city had like 5000 soldiers in total.  So I thought, 2000 of them going to war is actually something -BIG-.

Of course, if I am close in numbers that is.

[Kelen]

I just want to throw a vote in with some others, I think the PC leaders needed to do just a little bit more. But, then again you can't blame just waiting around on the PC leaders. Not everyone has the same schedule and will be on for everything.

But I would like to add, A certain camp ( I won't say which but you can guess), turned to going on patrols just to kill a raptor or two to pass time. And...There was a -lot- of standing around at low key times.

The only problem I saw with the HRPT itself was the fact that everyone was confined to camp, and were under strict orders not to go anywhere without a leader...But rarely was their a leader about. Maybe next time there  would be something too having more PC leaders...?

Other than that, I thought this was great time. My only regret is I probably won't see the playerbase at up to 60 people everynight

[Halaster]

I agree with a lot of the ideas we've heard about different things that could have happened but didn't.  Such as more detailed resource management (how much water/food/armor/etc is in the camp, how much they need, supply lines, actually getting it, etc.) would have been really neat.  So why didn't it happen?

One thing we've come to realize as staff was that there was a bit of disorganization on our end (95% because of ME) and so a lot of staff didn't actually help out with the HRPT because they weren't sure what to do, or how to go about it.  Basically, I had hoped and expected other staff to do things, but they didn't - again, my fault not theirs.

So, halfway through it I realized there was so much more like this that could be done, but I was far too busy to do it all, and so had to just let it slide.  We've learned from this, as staff, and have already thought of how to correct it the next time.

[Halaster]

This is a big part of the problem as to why information isn't being disseminated.  Once ooc curiosity is sated, the ic curiosity mysteriously vanishes.

This is so true.  To this day there are still plenty of people who spread knowledge OOC'ly through IM and other methods - and so there's no reason for them to find out IC because they're no longer curious.  Yet another reason to stop talking OOC.

[jstorrie]

A simple solution to the leadership problem would be more delegation. Mundance PC leaders exist for a reason, use them! Whole armies shouldn't be reporting directly to templars and nobles, but to their delegated subordinates, the lieutenants, captains, sergeants and such.

[Anonymous]

A simple solution to the leadership problem would be more delegation. Mundance PC leaders exist for a reason, use them! Whole armies shouldn't be reporting directly to templars and nobles, but to their delegated subordinates, the lieutenants, captains, sergeants and such.

The none templar PC leader was one of the first to die at the northern camp.  :cry:

[RunningMountain]

While I didn't make a character until the whole thing ended I guess this is what I think about it so far.

I think having a certain time period for things to happen. Like mini-rpts within the whole hrpt itself would definitely help with organizing something along the scope of a long, drawn-out (war?) Setting times is not a bad thing in my opinion, while it may seem like it's pre-ordained, I think having staff there to simply facilitate and respond to wishes of the PC leaders is all you need. If you think about it, the armies should be lead by PCs, because there are PCs about that are powerful enough to command such. Then those PCs should already have had their leaders in order. If they don't, then that's just shitty for them because if they are in control of that army, they need officers to help control it. So the main role of the imms at 9 pm EST on the fifth week of the HRPT would be basically to login and see what the two PC army-leaders decide they are going to do and go from there with echoes, and basic support. This way the PCs have control to an extend and so do the staff involved.

I still don't get what/why all this happened, it's definitely not common knowledge, and a southern commoner pc would be thinking what right about now? Hmm. They went into the desert and killed a bunch of northerners I guess? Then came back and said they won. Well what did we win? Not pride.

I think the emphasis laid on having an entire cities population believe every little thing some guy in a special robe say can only be used so often. Considering the poverty rate alone in Allanak, and tuluk, maybe the effects of the war can continue on in the cities themselves. Such as famine, lack of farmers, agricultural decline, mobs forming on the streets, etc. The iron-fisted rule of the city(s) may have slipped while half the army was away at playing war for a few plants and cactus in a desert. I know that's how I'd feel about it if I was a starving rinthi'. Or a starving commoner for that matter.

And the politic shifts would be even worse in allanak, the houses lend all this support for the army and apparently have nothing to show for it, no loot, no supplies, no territories gained. And some of them got their ranks decimated supposedly?

While I bet Halaster and any others are exhausted from such a long RPT, just saying it's suddenly over is a bit disheartening when realistically the repercussions and negative effects that are very probable have yet to be thought about. I bet this was a huge learning experience for everyone however. It would be huge fun and a well-earned treat for those who didn't go to the frontlines to see the full, nasty, and very realistic effects that a long drawn out war can have on a city, culture, and civilization in general. War destroys civilizations, it breaks them apart.

Mutiny and rebellions shouldn't be uncommon after such a long, pointless bloodbath for two cities.

That's all I think for now.

[Malken]

I'm going to say that the aftermath looks mighty sweet already

[ashyom]

Stick to the topic please.

[Aldiel]

I felt like it dragged on at times, but overall, it was amazing!

[Cale_Knight]

The way it happened: a list of objectives was given to the PC leader of the entire operation. It was up to that leader to complete said goals. But the way it ended up working out, 95% of non-noble PCs were completely in the dark the entire time.

What I'd like to see: I'd like to see similar lists of goals made up for the "mundane" PCs. So in the southern camp, for instance, the Borsail Sergeant, the Militia Sergeant, the Tor sergeant, and the head Oashi magus all have their own sets of staff-created goals that they can work on with their troops and that have a visible impact.

Because in all honesty, if you weren't a noble in this thing your entire role was often limited to "hold this dune" or "follow this noble."

[Synthesis]

In modern war, the grunts don't know anything.  Why should it be any different on Zalanthas?

When I was in Iraq, our company commander wouldn't be briefed about a mission until about 5-6 hours before it was set to run.  Platoon commanders and platoon sergeants were briefed about an hour later.  By the time the final word came down the chain of command, we grunts only had about 2 hours to actually get ready to go.

As far as camp life goes, complete boredom -is- the norm.  I'd say about 30% of my time in Iraq was spent actually doing "war-related" things: cleaning weapons, putting armor on HMMWV's, unpacking ammo, going out on missions, etc.  The other 70% of the time, I was sleeping, lifting weights, or watching movies (until the last 2 weeks, when we were on an Army base with an internet connection, and I could actually log into Arm for the first time in 7 months, woo!).  So, it might seem like a drag...but that's just how war is.  Hell, after 6 months, even going out on missions was a drag--you didn't get any adrenaline rush until people actually started shooting at you.

I personally didn't experience any of the camp life during the war (although I -was- involved with -many- of the mini-plots that people are complaining supposedly didn't occur), but from what I'm hearing, it doesn't seem like it was a terribly unrealistic experience.  If you're a mere pawn, the only word you're going to get is "march here," "march there," and "unpack your gear and settle down, it's gonna be awhile."

Personally, I think all the camp-bound persons should've come prepared.  In Iraq, laptops and portable DVD players were probably the only things that kept most of us sane...I watched more movies and TV serials in 7 months than I had during the rest of my life combined.  On Zalanthas...bring the Kruth cards, the dice, the izdari sets...blow every last coin you have on spice or liquor, because where you're going, you won't -need- the coins, and you'll probably die with them in the bank, anyway.  Sure, these games aren't entertaining by themselves, but they provide a backdrop for you to shoot the breeze with your fellow soldiers.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Although I understood the reasoning behind some of the commands at the Camp, I think that the strictness really took a lot of enjoyment out of the game for the players. Maybe those in charge could think about that before issuing orders that take the whores back home and the dice and cards out of soldiers' pockets.

[Cale_Knight]

Maybe those in charge could think about that before issuing orders that take the whores back home and the dice and cards out of soldiers' pockets.

Agreed.

[Hymwen]

In modern war, the grunts don't know anything. Why should it be any different on Zalanthas?

Because we play to have fun, and it's not a whole lot of fun to stand in one place doing nothing for many hours, and even less fun when you don't know why you're doing it.

[bloodfromstone]

As far as camp life goes, complete boredom -is- the norm.

Basically mirroring Hymen's comment in response to a different quote. I don't play the game to be bored through my character's eyes. I don't think anyone does. If we were going with complete realism, most of our characters should live out their lives working inside the city doing something simple and boring and never change jobs or encounter real political/physical danger. If that was the game, I think only a very sparse few would still play.

[Tuannon]

HymWen!

I think the analogy or whatever the word for it is that someone else put up about the war camp being 90% boredom and 10% sheer terror is about perfect really. Maybe 80/20 but not really much more.

While I understand that means a lot of latrine digging, pot scrubbing, gear checking, kank 'entertaining' or whatever.. it makes the action more 'realistically' spaced out and much more fun.

[Vessol]

The problem was that the charactors that I did have in the war camps, I got no orders besides "Stay outside the camp and watch in all directions", and yeah that was my job 99% of the time  :roll: . Ah well I like the whole war idea, and I already gave my suggestions on a Supply Line.

[ThirdEye]

There were 2 certain PC's who made my time at the camp enjoyable regardless that I saw no action.

[RunningMountain]

I don't think zalanthas is modern war. Is it? War was way different in roman times. If you're going to compare it at all compare war from back then.

[Halaster]

I don't want to leave this thread open forever, so if you haven't posted your feedback yet, do so soon!  I plan to close this by mid-week.

[Marauder Moe]

All I have left to say is that I'm also really looking forward to a year or so from now when logs of the war can be posted in the player logs section.  One thing that really struck me and remained a big theme was how DIFFERENT Allanak and Tuluk are.  I'd like to see what life on the other side was like.

EDIT: staff and players might want to snip a few logs for this purpose now, while memory is still fresh.  :wink: