HRPT - What We Learned

[bloodfromstone]

That is alright with me but it was almost like certain -things- were avoided at all costs.

I don't know when you showed up, and I don't think this is too IC, since the situation is pasted, but certain things -were- avoided at all costs. There were orders involved concerning that sort of thing and others, so it might have just been soldiers following orders.

[Anonymous]

I don't know if this is helpful or not. But as someone who plays a character who couldn't ICly be involved in the war, and wasn't involved in the war, and was in the city the entire time, I'm just as confused after it as I was when it started. OOCly, my observation is that it was nothing more than a skirmish, but with lots of people instead of a few small groups. I don't see any "result." I don't see any changes. I don't see any side's city as being any different now, than it was before it started. Based on the Halaster posts, it sounds like a bunch of people got into a fight, and then the fight ended, and everyone went back home. As a person who wasn't participating directly in the war, and had no direct communication with anyone who was directly involved, anyone with any "inside info" ICly, that's all it looked like to me. And to my character. A whole lotta nothing, with a bunch of dead people to show for it.

If there was some "meat" to this plotline, if there was an actual plotline, neither I nor my character has heard anything about it. And yes, my character has asked. And been told by the people she's asked, that they're as much in the dark about the whole thing as she is. If they're lying, that's great. But it leaves me wondering what, exactly, happened in the last RL month in this game, and why. The same thing that troubled me in the beginning in another related threat, still troubles me now. And if the other characters are telling the truth (which I admit might not be the case), then there are other people who experienced the same thing.

Oh my... THE PLOT WAS THE BEST PART!

Find out ic.

I found that not only to be a waste of thread space but mean spirited too.

It does remind me of something though, this however is not really only isolated to HPRT.

After an hour or two of doing nothing at the camp a couple of templars would log on, and i'd have to sit there while they spoke gibberish for while. They could have sat in the corner and 'spoken quietly' and yeah i know alot of people have listen...good...give us something to talk about or tell others back at home. I knwo its ic for them to try to keep it a secret...just stop trying so hard, Alot of things that should be IC and realistic aren't there to make the game more enjoyable.

You ask 'Why are we here?'
Answer "For the glory of the ivory'
ICly: thats great
OOCly: what the fuck.

Okay maybe the corporal is more talkative...woops....they ran into a mek and died...

All these supposedly great stories and plots...all confirmed by handful of lucky players and the imms that they did happen and they were great.  :roll:

The game needs a few more big mouths, ghosipers, loud talkers and people who don't lock themselves in three rooms to plot.  Along side special apped sages, historians and bards who have access to the plots and stories of way passed through docs. People who i can ICly pay to tell me what really happened at Luirs 100 IC years ago or just to pass down the stories and history of the people.
It would make sitting at taverns and being stuck in an isolated clan more interesting then watching yet another bunch of new PCs flirt and play footsies with each other for the millionth time. :evil:

Its not fair to say find out ICly when the only way you can is if you in the right place and in the right time, special apped or with the right IC mindset and needing to having had kissed up to so so special apped PC for couple of RL months. Okay so maybe i am exsaggerating a bit on the difficulty but it still can be too much of a pain in the ass sometimes and impossible for others.

[flaran]

Tuluk is who strikes me as odd in this specific war.  Anyway, I would also say that transportation to the battlefield should be simpler.  I lost a character in this very way.. though it was tons of fun.

[Gimfalisette]

I'm fairly sure that everyone in the north should know now why the war happened. The info is out there in minimal detail, greater detail can indeed be found out IC.

I agree that it's cool when IC info is "accidentally" leaked in game. I found out what the war was about due to overhearing an imm-animated character. That rocked hard. Imms probably do that intentional leak stuff more frequently than players do; players should do more of it.

If you are in the northlands, I suggest finding your local bard and asking questions of him/her. You'll probably at least get a colorful story  And you don't need to kiss up to get it, nor is it "expensive" to get that info...as long as you're satisfied with the party line.

"Find out IC" shouldn't really be confused for "getting your OOC info desires satisfied," because they are entirely different things.

[Bebop]

Interaction:  It really sucked the playerbase from the city, basically you had to be in the war if you wanted some steady interaction.  Also I don't like the idea of newbies logging in and thinking where is everyone?  Even at the war camps if it wasn't peak hours there was nothing to do there either.

Spam:  The spam was pretty bad.  There were not enough containers for everything so there was a massive amount of things piled into room descriptions and such.  Next time there should be more chests and shelves to keep each room organized and bareable.  Everywhere I looked suddenly there was over a page of stuff on the screen.  It was overwhelming and kind of took away from the atmosphere.

Spam Attacking:  I experienced this personally twice within my short time there and it's definitely a problem, I think that the new order unit attack thing will definitely help, but also I think unit's should have a chance to guard better and guard from arrows if they don't already.  Sometimes it is also hard to manage soldiers because they all look the same.  I think the idea that you should not be able to see everytime someone misses an attack is a good one.  You should be able to only see when other people -land- a hit.  That way the screen is not filled with spam but you can still see how the other fights around you are fairing.

IMM Assistance:  I felt bad for the imms because so much multi tasking must have been required and so many PCs had so many demands to actually keep the war progressing.  They really did a good job keeping up with everyone and meeting needs but at the same time I feel that because the war progressed the way it died there was were many times character had to be broken, there was OOC confusion and IMMs had to be called on to actually make the mission happen.  The IMMs kept things flowing as best they could and they did a good job of being ontop of things but all together I think that things were choppy.  No one's fault really this is a text based game and things will be that way.

All and all, I am not sure this prolonged HRPT was better then just a regular HRPT.  I would have just as soon preferred the good ole marching in and attacking to this prolonged HRPT but that's just me.  There was a good sense of realism at times because of the way that this HRPT was set up and alot of good experiences but I just personally don't like how much the playerbase was sucked up during it or the choppy, spammy bits.

Before I had a character that experienced the HRPT I was playing an independant character that traveled independantly and things were so boring because I would maybe see one person every now and then while traveling in usually very popular hunting grounds.  Also in the cities there were very few people.  For awhile we were having a good 60 to 70 people on during peak hours but after/during the HRPT I have noticed that it went back down to 45 - 50 people on during peak hours.

[Agent_137]

i just wanted to say that I'm glad units have finally been fixed. I always found it distasteful that my first long lived character perished to a mishmash of enemy "order followers," meaning (i suppose), NPC soldiers.

[Anonymous kank with wings]

Interaction:  It really sucked the playerbase from the city, basically you had to be in the war if you wanted some steady interaction.  Also I don't like the idea of newbies logging in and thinking where is everyone?

This is a good point. Perhaps there could have been a temporary option put into the Hall of Kings to point to the Allanaki camp and Tuluki camp.

[Intrepid]

The game needs a few more big mouths, ghosipers, loud talkers and people who don't lock themselves in three rooms to plot.  Along side special apped sages, historians and bards who have access to the plots and stories of way passed through docs. People who i can ICly pay to tell me what really happened at Luirs 100 IC years ago or just to pass down the stories and history of the people.

This is sooooo true.

The playerbase on Arm has usually been a collective plot vortex that keeps secrets with absolute fervor because the players already talked about it over an IM.

Part of the problem is the fanatic templarate that thinks it should be able to control the mouths of an entire city-state rather than use the gossip mill to its own ends.  The other part is the fanatical militia that seems unable to behave like individuals.

All of your efforts will be forgotten if you don't let information flow.  There was a battle I recall not too long ago that conveniently never made it to the public ear and should have despite any attempts at gossip quelling, but the entire affair was snuffed out.

[Naiona]

From a staff perspective I have to say that very few secrets actually remain secret on Armageddon.  They almost all get out and get out fairly quickly.  During this HRPT, almost every secret got out through various means.  Not every PC may have heard everything, but it was certainly not for a lack of leaks, spills and spies.

[Intrepid]

From a staff perspective I have to say that very few secrets actually remain secret on Armageddon.  They almost all get out and get out fairly quickly.  During this HRPT, almost every secret got out through various means.  Not every PC may have heard everything, but it was certainly not for a lack of leaks, spills and spies.

Well, maybe it's just me then.  It just seems that, unless I'm in one of those "in-the-know" type clans, I don't end up hearing anything.  I can understanding hearing some things some of the time, but I'm confused when I hear nothing all of the time.  If it weren't for the announcements Halaster made, I wouldn't have had any information regarding the war.

[jhunter]

There was so much information leaking out during this I find it surprising that some -haven't- found out what was going on exactly. Spies up the wazzoo in this one for sure on both sides.

[Barzalene]

I don't see any "result." I don't see any changes. I don't see any side's city as being any different now, than it was before it started.

Patience, little one.  The HRPT is less than 24 hours over, some things take time!  It's way way way too premature to say there are no results  (besides, you may not SEE them yet).

Based on the Halaster posts, it sounds like a bunch of people got into a fight, and then the fight ended, and everyone went back home.

A good summation of events.  So what's wrong with that?  Such things happen sometimes.  One thing we've tried to avoid is to make the game a fairy tale, because Zalanthas isn't a fairy tale.  By that I mean, having things go just the way everyone likes it, or having things to clear-cut and black-and-white.  Instead, we try to make things realistic.  Sometimes, a soldier simply doesn't really know "why" they're going to war or know what's going on behind the scenes.  Or sometimes, the public is lied to.  Or sometimes, there is no real clear-cut winner (or both sides claim victory).  Having every plot be a mold from a classic fairy tale, or a typical D&D dungeon-crawl or conflict->rewards scenario just isn't the way it always works, IMO.  Not to say those things don't have their place - they do, and they're enjoyable.  But again, we try to make the game realistic and grey.  Sometimes things make sense because of that, sometimes they don't make sense.  Reminds me a lot of RL, in that way, heh.

Quoted the above for context, as this thought is not directed specifically toward Halaster or Lizzie. One of the coolest things about Arm, is not knowing the whole story, dying, and later with a new pc who was never meant to have any connection to your dead pc the story continues to unfold only you see it from a whole new perspective. I love that it's not a finte find out everything at once experience.

[Dre]

From a staff perspective I have to say that very few secrets actually remain secret on Armageddon.  They almost all get out and get out fairly quickly.  During this HRPT, almost every secret got out through various means.  Not every PC may have heard everything, but it was certainly not for a lack of leaks, spills and spies.

Well, maybe it's just me then.  It just seems that, unless I'm in one of those "in-the-know" type clans, I don't end up hearing anything.  I can understanding hearing some things some of the time, but I'm confused when I hear nothing all of the time.  If it weren't for the announcements Halaster made, I wouldn't have had any information regarding the war.

Oh i wouldn't say its just you. :wink:

While i don't doubt that the information is in the world and not only in the imms and templars minds, the few players that know the info are usually quite tight lipped about it. Why? well i am sure there are a couple of reasons though bragging rights (IC and OOC)  seems to be one of them.

There are of course some exception and that said I've alway found it funny alot of the time the only PCs that know the truth of what actually happened and why, are dead. Its funny listening to someone tell what happened and OOCly laughing to yourself and saying if they only knew.

Thats sometimes part of the fun of the game.

This HRPT was a little better i will admit when it came to spreading  info, most PC will have heard something if not everything or it being accurate. The bards knowing more then usual is great.  Having said that I began making a bit more of an effort to spread word to said bards after (ooc and ic pleads) and i would recomend other people try to do the same.

The special apped sage/historian/bard with access to documented stories about what happened in the past and great long forgotten plots will probably  deserve its own thread eventually.

[bloodfromstone]

I quite agree that everything tends to be pretty tight-lipped. I don't think everyone should know everything, but it is VERY often that something happens and the general consensus is "That doesn't make sense, unless there's something more to it.", and maybe two people have the knowledge to say "OH! But there is! It's just IC info." Not that there is anything wrong with that... Except, in my experience, nothing has ever happened a while down the line to make people say "Oh, now it makes sense. They were just building up to X and they have to keep Y secret." Again, from my (limited) experience, people scratching their heads for a while, some of them learning about what happened OOCly, others never finding out, until something else happens and it leaves everyone's minds.

I dunno. It just seems like the big driving plots would be cooler if more people knew what was going on, instead of feeling like they were being hauled along for what maybe a very in depth plot event, but may also be just a plot device to get some action going.

*shrug* Maybe I'm a little bitter from always playing mundanes with no political power.

[Barzalene]

Interaction:  It really sucked the playerbase from the city, basically you had to be in the war if you wanted some steady interaction.  Also I don't like the idea of newbies logging in and thinking where is everyone?  Even at the war camps if it wasn't peak hours there was nothing to do there either.

All and all, I am not sure this prolonged HRPT was better then just a regular HRPT.  I would have just as soon preferred the good ole marching in and attacking to this prolonged HRPT but that's just me.  There was a good sense of realism at times because of the way that this HRPT was set up and alot of good experiences but I just personally don't like how much the playerbase was sucked up during it or the choppy, spammy bits.

Again, with no contrariness directed at Bebop, I wanted to chime in and say this was not my experience.  I came back to arm and made a pc specifically because of the HRPT. I ended up playing in Nak, Luirs and Tuluk since then (not with the same pc) I had completely the opposite experience in all three places. I had tons to do and plenty of interaction. There may not have been as many people in each of these places as there might otherwise be, but there were people and there was stuff going on. In fact the only think I haven't seen much of in the cities, in the time I've been back, is Templars who I suppose were all at the front. I'm not belittling Bebop's experience. I just wanted to point out that I don't think it was universal. But maybe I was just very lucky.

I really loved that the hrpt wasn't something that was packed into a few hours that was easy to miss and soon over. Again, it's what drew me back. And I don't think it's a complete coincedence that so many old players have been returning since the war began.

Again, I recognize this might not be universal, but  this was my experience. I tend not to be extraordinary.

[Kennath]

Lastly, one of my characters signed up to be 'ho-ed out and never once was she 'ho-ed'! I made a perfectly fine f-me character and she didnt do anything except get stuck out on the field of battle looking clue-less and scared. What is up with that? There needs to be more whoring and "sudden acts of passion" in the game. Are the Allanaki Nobles, Templars, Warriors, all gay? Is that too much IC information?

Oops!

You should have said something to your IG pimp.

[Barzalene]

Oh, on the topic of tight lipped. I'm a little frustrated not to find anything on the end of the war on some ic boards. Those who were there when the troops returned might consider making a quick post or two.

[Anonymous]

I do think it is worth reiterating Halaster's point.  The HRPT ended less than 24 hours ago.  Give it a little time, and I think the information will spread - posts will be made, etc.  This isn't the modern world where we have real time reporting on events.  Even with psionics, it will take information some time to get spread around.

[Intrepid]

Quoted the above for context, as this thought is not directed specifically toward Halaster or Lizzie. One of the coolest things about Arm, is not knowing the whole story, dying, and later with a new pc who was never meant to have any connection to your dead pc the story continues to unfold only you see it from a whole new perspective. I love that it's not a finte find out everything at once experience.

Pardon?  Neither Lizzie nor myself made any reference to knowing everything.  We made a reference to knowing absolutely nothing about the situation.

There are of course some exception and that said I've alway found it funny alot of the time the only PCs that know the truth of what actually happened and why, are dead. Its funny listening to someone tell what happened and OOCly laughing to yourself and saying if they only knew.

You realize that some of us deliberately avoid ooc contact because we're not supposed to be spreading information around like that, right?  This is a big part of the problem as to why information isn't being disseminated.  Once ooc curiosity is sated, the ic curiosity mysteriously vanishes.  The same goes with ooc vs. ic candor, unfortunately.  It's one thing for secrets to be passed around, but if this was a major world event, it should not be secret in the slightest.  If this event makes it onto the timeline and I couldn't find out about it as a player character in game, then it's a failure of we as players to accurately push information realistically in the world around us.

Some things can certainly stay secret, but some things cannot.  That simply is the way of greater society.

[Dre]

There are of course some exception and that said I've alway found it funny alot of the time the only PCs that know the truth of what actually happened and why, are dead. Its funny listening to someone tell what happened and OOCly laughing to yourself and saying if they only knew.

You realize that some of us deliberately avoid ooc contact because we're not supposed to be spreading information around like that, right?  This is a big part of the problem as to why information isn't being disseminated.  Once ooc curiosity is sated, the ic curiosity mysteriously vanishes.  The same goes with ooc vs. ic candor, unfortunately.  It's one thing for secrets to be passed around, but if this was a major world event, it should not be secret in the slightest.  If this event makes it onto the timeline and I couldn't find out about it as a player character in game, then it's a failure of we as players to accurately push information realistically in the world around us.

Some things can certainly stay secret, but some things cannot.  That simply is the way of greater society.

I think you misunderstood. What i am referring to is having actually had a PC there, having gone through the plot yourself, ICly having known the truth. In my case dying and then hearing the story through someone else inaccurately with the new PC...and laughing to myself oocly and in private because i know what happened and no it in no way influences my IC actions. I Know the Rules.

I've never shared OOC info, i don't talk to -any- of you though any OOC method beyond GDB even then don't always log in. I don't even know the IRC channel or will ever want to log in to chat. Never even talked to a helper.  When i was first starting to play Arm i read a post by AC on the subject took it to heart, and i've never regretted it.

I have a another GDB name these days i use for clans and really wished others did the game, i am sure some do though,  i -hate- knowing who it is that is playing X character and being able to relate them to....certain posts. Its never effected my role playing or actions but still sucks to know that.

Sorry for the derailment.

[Coat of Arms]

The good points have already been brought up a hundred times - staff effort, extended war, fun battles and so on. I won't waste space with that.

But some bad points were indeed there, and they were not seen by everybody, but they were a big let-down for me.

• People who can't play at the golden hours of 8-12pm US time saw next to nothing, despite being in the middle of the war. There might have been a few minor event for the off peak players, but I must have missed them. I would often stand around for as much as 6-7 hours in a row with squat to do and only a couple (or none at all) in the camp. I accumulated 4 days played during the HRPT, I think I was online quite a lot, and I think I had less than 5 hours of accumulated fun, with the rest being standing guard in front of an empty camp watching the room echos. Very disappointing for me, especially because it was neither possible nor in-character for my PC to leave the war.

• This war seemed to be about the leaders. When there wasn't any immediate action (read: a fight or a moving of the camp) I felt that we, the grunts, were ignored. I tried doing the "is there anything I can do?" and was either told no, or assigned something as exciting as going into the corral and making sure all 70 kanks were resting. It seemed to me that when the leaders weren't around people were just waiting, doing nothing, and I saw a lot of the "has entered Zalanthas;looks around for a bit, notices no templars or sergeants;has left Zalanthas" from other people. I felt like the annoying little brother who was brought along because the big boys had been told to, and was then parked somewhere while they had fun, and occasionally brought along to carry their stuff. To further prove my point that it was all about the leaders: in the Allanaki camp, there was a Command Tent, a House Tor tent, another tent for leadership, a tent for the mages, a wagon for other important people... and nothing at all, what-so-ever, for the TWO THOUSAND soldiers. Not a barracks tent, not a row of cots, nothing.

• Some of the things that could have made for some interesting non-battle RP seemed to be ignored. Such things as food/water supply management became a "uh, ask a mage to make you some water" thing, which I found a little lame as a way to keep your 2000-man army healthy. There were no supply lines, no armor repair (save for one PC, who was ignored), nothing much at all to do in-between the patrols and battles.

• There was nothing besides some board messages for the city people. I can't bother going into detail about this, it's getting old.

[Tlaloc]

• Some of the things that could have made for some interesting non-battle RP seemed to be ignored. Such things as food/water supply management became a "uh, ask a mage to make you some water" thing, which I found a little lame as a way to keep your 2000-man army healthy. There were no supply lines, no armor repair (save for one PC, who was ignored), nothing much at all to do in-between the patrols and battles.

Just popping in quickly to make a correction about this:

Both sides had supply lines. The handful of Vivaduans were not keeping the 2000 man army healthy (alone), and there were several trips, negotiations, and purchases to restock arms and armor during the event.

That said, I think having a more dynamic and quantifiable system of keeping track of supplies and food would be way cool...but possibly incredibly complicated. I -think- what you're asking for is something which could effect PCs on a day-to-day basis...but I think the best thing for that would be to actually code weapon, clothing, and armor degredation, food rotting, etc.

That way, Private Grunt actually has to worry about his sword breaking down over time, and sandstorms wearing holes in his cloak.

[Anonymous]

Some of the things that could have made for some interesting non-battle RP seemed to be ignored. Such things as food/water supply management became a "uh, ask a mage to make you some water" thing, which I found a little lame as a way to keep your 2000-man army healthy. There were no supply lines, no armor repair (save for one PC, who was ignored), nothing much at all to do in-between the patrols and battles.

I know. As one of the water mages I felt bad because without water camp activity soon would stop. But I couldn't be on all of the time and the containers were often inadequate to bridge the gap. They had the annoying habit of disappearing each time the game rebooted too. If only there were a big permanent container people people would have been left dependent moment to moment.

[RunningMountain]

Does anyone else find that there might be serious cultural and social repercussion for this war in both cities? Specifically the fact that either of the cities omnipotent gods decided to just let it all happen?

-RM

[Marauder Moe]

I don't think either city considers their god omnipotent... just very very potent.  If they were omnipotent, why would the other city still exist?

The idea that god is all-powerful and all-knowing isn't a feature of all religions.

Besides, why would it be a problem that their god "let" it happen?  Their side  won, afterall.