Should PCs be able to start as 'experienced'?

Started by number13, March 25, 2010, 01:38:09 AM

Should PCs be able to enter the game with more advanced skill levels? For example, equivalent to a day 5 character?

No, never.
16 (13.9%)
As it is now, via special app only.
52 (45.2%)
Yes, as a function of age.
16 (13.9%)
Yes, but... [explain in post]
21 (18.3%)
"I like to vote in polls."
10 (8.7%)

Total Members Voted: 114

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April 16, 2010, 03:46:01 PM #125
I'm kind of against the RPP system, but I do like the idea of having the choice between more skills, or better starting levels.  Atonement, a recent RPI upstart, does this.

The problem is, it doesn't work with a class-based system.
Quote from: ZoltanWhen in doubt, play dangerous, awkward or intense situations to the hilt, every time.

The Official GDB Hate Cycle
April 16, 2010, 03:48:18 PM #126
I changed my vote to: Only via special application.

Think one thing I like about this mud is that you can not become uber out the box.
I've seen muds where if you pick 4 skills, can get uber out the box, and its lame.

"0day 0hour dude just beat 40day warrior... wat?"
"Don't take life too seriously, nobody ever makes it out alive anyway."
April 16, 2010, 04:05:09 PM #127
Quote from: BlackMagic0 on April 16, 2010, 03:48:18 PM
I changed my vote to: Only via special application.

Think one thing I like about this mud is that you can not become uber out the box.
I've seen muds where if you pick 4 skills, can get uber out the box, and its lame.

"0day 0hour dude just beat 40day warrior... wat?"

I doubt that would happen.  40 days is plenty of time to adequately develop combat skills for a warrior.  And, in my experience, you don't start "uber", but more at the high end of average.  All this does is give the player a choice between starting as  a "specialist" and starting as someone with a broader arsenal of undeveloped skills.

Again though, it's a moot point, because Arm doesn't have the infrastructure to support a system like this.
Quote from: ZoltanWhen in doubt, play dangerous, awkward or intense situations to the hilt, every time.

The Official GDB Hate Cycle
April 16, 2010, 04:09:59 PM #128
I still say no. One the appeals to me is you gotta work your characters up.
Challenge. One reason I tend to make my characters younger, so makes sense.

And its how it happened on another mud. Simply saying. I don't want that.


If you want to start experienced, special app it. They tend to get accepted easy, the boost characters. Since its not much at all!
"Don't take life too seriously, nobody ever makes it out alive anyway."
April 16, 2010, 04:23:44 PM #129
I actually had a spec-app denied for "trying to circumvent the grind". Just for reference. Something about how the system is in place to lend reality to a character, not to get passed the stressful early days. Which is why something like this probably wont ever go in.
April 16, 2010, 07:07:21 PM #130
Quote from: Qzzrbl on April 16, 2010, 03:34:57 PM
Can someone explain the RPP system to me?

I've never played SoI. >_>

I've never played SoI either, but I remember RPP being explained on their site.  It's spendable karma, essentially.  You earn brownie points, and then spend them to take roles, unstore characters, and boost stats on existing long-lived characters (with qualifications on each activity.) 
....

Quote from: BlackMagic0One the appeals to me is you gotta work your characters up.
Challenge.

It would be fine if it were a challenge.  It's not. It's time consuming, and only a challenge to one's patience and available time-to-play.  The scarcity of patience and time-to-play should preclude someone from fully participating in Armageddon?  Maybe, but be aware that philosophy costs something -- active participants.  Might be a fair trade for the atmosphere desired; there's plenty of other aspects of Arm that would seem to cost active participants (such as the ban on OOC information trading), but are actually essential to the character of the game.
April 16, 2010, 09:11:48 PM #131
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on April 16, 2010, 04:23:44 PMI actually had a spec-app denied for "trying to circumvent the grind". Just for reference. Something about how the system is in place to lend reality to a character, not to get passed the stressful early days. Which is why something like this probably wont ever go in.
If all you're trying to do is avoid the grind, I understand this.  If you can give a good reason why your character and the world would be a better place if you avoided the grind, they may let it through.  That's effectively what it is happening for sponsored roles, like the example given of the Byn Sarge.
Quote from: MalifaxisWe need to listen to spawnloser.
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April 17, 2010, 12:05:44 AM #132
Just going to say, the votes still strongly favor no change.
April 17, 2010, 01:24:50 PM #133
I wouldn't say strongly but it does appear to favor it. Which doesn't really mean much since people can just log into their many accounts and vote in favor of their opinion multiple times to skew the results and make it appear as if things lean more one way than they actually do. Because of this, polls on this board are totally unreliable.
Quote from: Fnord on November 27, 2010, 01:55:19 PM
May the fap be with you, always. ;D
April 17, 2010, 01:32:22 PM #134
Well, the "no change" option is inaccurate, since you can't special app. -only- for higher skills.

Sponsored roles != special apps.

So really, all those votes should be in the "yes, but..." column.
Quote from: WarriorPoet
I play this game to pretend to chop muthafuckaz up with bone swords.
Quote from: SmuzI come to the GDB to roleplay being deep and wise.
Quote from: VanthSynthesis, you scare me a little bit.
April 17, 2010, 09:29:00 PM #135
Or the no never.
April 17, 2010, 09:49:23 PM #136
Quote from: Kryos on April 17, 2010, 09:29:00 PM
Or the no never.

If they said yes to, "by special app only," that kind of excludes "no, never" by definition.
Quote from: WarriorPoet
I play this game to pretend to chop muthafuckaz up with bone swords.
Quote from: SmuzI come to the GDB to roleplay being deep and wise.
Quote from: VanthSynthesis, you scare me a little bit.
April 17, 2010, 11:24:49 PM #137
Quote from: Synthesis on April 17, 2010, 09:49:23 PM
Quote from: Kryos on April 17, 2010, 09:29:00 PM
Or the no never.

If they said yes to, "by special app only," that kind of excludes "no, never" by definition.

The important part I think would be the "as it is now."
April 18, 2010, 05:12:14 AM #138
WTF kind of option is "I like to vote in polls"?  If you have no decision on the issue at hand, then don't vote.

I play this game less because I have to grind to get good with skills.  I don't always want to start out a newb.
April 19, 2010, 02:46:35 PM #139
What if mundane characters were able to forgo a sub guild choice, and simply select an "Experienced" sub guild instead.

Choosing the "Experienced" sub guild would provide that character with varying boosts to their skills that would help eliminate a portion of the grind many people dislike and make them feel a little more productive.  They would have to forgo the ability to customize their character with the extra languages or non-guild skills/crafts provided by the regular sub guilds, but would have the ability to begin their characters at a slightly higher skill level.

If everyone had the same ability, and that ability didn't grossly unbalance the relationship between the two starting characters, it might go a decent ways toward bridging the gap and offer a compromise to people that want an option to start their characters with a little more experience.

-LoD
April 19, 2010, 02:56:19 PM #140
Already been suggested, probably within the first 2 pages.
Quote from: WarriorPoet
I play this game to pretend to chop muthafuckaz up with bone swords.
Quote from: SmuzI come to the GDB to roleplay being deep and wise.
Quote from: VanthSynthesis, you scare me a little bit.
April 19, 2010, 02:57:53 PM #141
Someone else had suggested the same and I think it's about the best idea regarding this matter overall. You have to give up something to cut down on the early grind. I could see myself using it some of the time but not -all- of the time since some of my concepts would -require- a subguild. Sure, it would probably actually be better as far as the learning curve for new players, but for those that have done it a hundred times or so, it would be nice to use sometimes.
Quote from: Fnord on November 27, 2010, 01:55:19 PM
May the fap be with you, always. ;D
April 19, 2010, 03:31:29 PM #142
Why, exactly are we looking at this like "grind."  It's not like we have to be a certain level to commence roleplay.  The whole "grind" contributes (and often is) the entirety of the character's story/life.

At what point did the game become about hitting caps in our guilds?

What happened to creating a personality, to experiencing the world? 

Am I a lone voice crying out in the wilderness?  (cue violin music)   ???
"When it is dark enough, you can see the stars."
April 19, 2010, 04:30:16 PM #143
Quote from: Sinna on April 19, 2010, 03:31:29 PM
(cue violin music)

At the lowest skill levels, everything can kill you and you are useful to no one.  Some folks find this endlessly enjoyable; others don't.
The sword is sharp, the spear is long,
The arrow swift, the Gate is strong.
The heart is bold that looks on gold;
The dwarves no more shall suffer wrong.
April 19, 2010, 04:31:03 PM #144
Don't do things alone.  Create a story.  Is this RPI or what?
"When it is dark enough, you can see the stars."
April 19, 2010, 04:35:17 PM #145
I'm just going to have to agree with Sinna.

Sure, there have been times I think I should be able to start out with maxed skills just so I can get right into the game at a certain point, but then I realize that is what sponsered roles are for.

Besides, I don't notice any grind...if you RP your PC you will find they will have reasons to use skills as part of that RP and then there is no grind.
A gaunt, yellow-skinned gith shrieks in fear, and hauls ass.
Lizzie:
If you -want- me to think that your character is a hybrid of a black kryl and a white push-broom shaped like a penis, then you've done a great job
April 19, 2010, 04:44:41 PM #146
Gentlemen, you're making a compelling argument for the renerfing of starting contact.
The sword is sharp, the spear is long,
The arrow swift, the Gate is strong.
The heart is bold that looks on gold;
The dwarves no more shall suffer wrong.
April 20, 2010, 10:40:31 AM #147
Sinna and X-D make the best points. For me, I've never noticed the 'grind' get in the way. I actually find the initial few days quite exciting... However, I've only had 12 PCs in about six or seven years, so maybe it's because it's quite novel for me.
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