Should PCs be able to start as 'experienced'?

[number13]

I don't have any remaining appreciation of the initial struggle to not suck. It's a slog and a roadblock endured only to achieve the promise of a playing a role.  I'm wondering if I'm in the minority -- if the majority of the player base prefers that most everyone start at day 0, for the sake of fairness perhaps.

I put my vote into "Yes, as a function of age," but with some conditions. Non-mundane, combat skills, steal and pick might not deserve as big of automatic bumps as skills that are less prone to be used to grief other players.

[jhunter]

Yes, but only on the basis of karma level. Karma represents a player's trust to roleplay properly and with realism. Those players are trusted to follow the rules and guidlines of the game and trusted not to abuse the code. This is the only way that I feel it is acceptable.

[Ampere]

Yes, but only on the basis of karma level. Karma represents a player's trust to roleplay properly and with realism. Those players are trusted to follow the rules and guidlines of the game and trusted not to abuse the code. This is the only way that I feel it is acceptable.

+1

[Boggis]

I'd like to be able to start with a somewhat more experienced character though I'd probably restrict it to warriors, rangers and merchants. Arm can be a pretty demanding game on your time and being able to just jump in with an averagely skilled character would be a draw for me. At the moment with my limited time the idea of having to spend a good chunk of time to become not useless is quite off-putting.

Maybe these experienced characters could have lower potential or skill progression speed as well as a trade-off. If you're somebody who thinks that they don't have the time to put into skilling up a character to a high level or you just want to hop in and be able to contribute from the get go to a clan or whatever then this shouldn't be a concern. If you want to be the best of the best skill-wise start from the base and work up. If you just want to be decent and have time for other stuff then maybe go the experienced route.

[Cutthroat]

I like the idea of it being based on karma, because it will probably encourage karma players even more to play mundanes (not that this is a problem, but it is a bonus), but I don't like that it will also widen the gap between karma players and newer players. Having it based on age is an interesting idea, though for certain classes it makes no sense to do this, from a playability standpoint.

[kuhfelsen]

I think for Merchants, at least, it should go by age. A 37 year old merchant would know more than a 13 year old merchant.

[Niamh]

If you would like to play a PC that starts out more experienced, you can submit a special application for it.  You may or may not be granted the request, depending on the usual guidelines for special application acceptance and rejection.

[FantasyWriter]

I think for Merchants, at least, it should go by age. A 37 year old merchant would know more than a 13 year old merchant.

Crafting subguilds.

[Synthesis]

If you would like to play a PC that starts out more experienced, you can submit a special application for it.  You may or may not be granted the request, depending on the usual guidelines for special application acceptance and rejection.

I thought the official policy was that you couldn't use the special app process for skillgains that can be acquired in-game.  I -know- I've seen other staffers post that before.

Also, this:

Yes, but only on the basis of karma level. Karma represents a player's trust to roleplay properly and with realism. Those players are trusted to follow the rules and guidlines of the game and trusted not to abuse the code. This is the only way that I feel it is acceptable.

[Old Kank]

I like the idea of it being based on karma, because it will probably encourage karma players even more to play mundanes (not that this is a problem, but it is a bonus), but I don't like that it will also widen the gap between karma players and newer players. Having it based on age is an interesting idea, though for certain classes it makes no sense to do this, from a playability standpoint.

More mundane, karma-required classes, please.  I would love to see classes that simply have modified skill ranges than their lower karma counter-part (higher starting point, higher max), but also classes that bring skills together in new ways.  Warrior/assassins, ranger/merchants, etc.  Or perhaps just karma-based subguilds that work as mini-classes.  Assassin subguild might give you a full backstab, hide and sneak skills, or a Krathi subguild might give you fireball, big fireball, and bigger fireball skills.

OK.

[spawnloser]

I wish it was based on age only and wasn't so much of a difference that it makes someone uber.  If that's how it worked, I'd be behind it.  Otherwise, special app only.

[RogueGunslinger]

Otherwise, special app only.

As synth already stated. Staff don't allow spec apps to be used for this purpose.

[jmordetsky]

I voted yes, but as a function of age. I believe that by apping an older character you should get the stat advantage as well as a skill advantage. Ie, an 18 yr old n00b warrior should be < a 25 yr old n00b warrior in skill. (Though - I will caveat this by saying the game is not suffering without it).

However - the system should be structured so that if you played an 18 yr old and survived to 25 - you should be WAY ahead of a new 25 yr old char. *shrug* Seems a lot to code and think through for little pay off.

[Synthesis]

I don't know why people are so upset about the "grind."  Skilling up on Arm is so ridiculously easy if you don't intentionally put obstacles in front of yourself.

[RogueGunslinger]

I don't know why people are so upset about the "grind."  Skilling up on Arm is so ridiculously easy if you don't intentionally put obstacles in front of yourself.

I wonder if people realize how lame it would be to be a noob if everyone could start better than you. Or that if everyone started with higher skills... Well, I'm sure you're all smart enough to decipher that.

[RogueGunslinger]

Making it a proponent of age is a bad idea. Everyone would just app older people.

[X-D]

I have to say no.

I don't really want to say no, but I have to, there is simply no fair way to go about it.

Sure, as a player I think I am far beyond the whole skilling up part of play. I don't need that time spent to figure out who my PC is, I don't need it to make IC contacts and such. I would love if I could bypass it, but at the same time, it is so silly silly easy to advance a PC to master levels, no matter the guild or race.

But, like I said, there is no fair way to put such a thing in. Improved skills by age? Meh, I would hate that, Oh great, I could trade stats for improved skills....Nah. Karma? Hhhmmm...no, Some people go ages being karma overlooked even though they are as good and trustworthy of players as many high karma players.

So...fun thought, but no.

[spawnloser]

Staff policy is that you can't get stat gains for RP through a request.  I don't remember anything about there being no skill gains, and this goes especially for special apps.  It seems kinda stupid to give sponsored roles boosts but not special apps.

[A Dry, Quiet War]

Skilling up on Arm is so ridiculously easy if you don't intentionally put obstacles in front of yourself.

What is it about "skilling up" that thwarts people, then?  Trying to be too clever in the wrong direction?

[Twilight]

Yes, but...

I think it should be a function of the starting skill levels being randomized.  Based on my experiences, the starting skill levels are static.  A pickpocket starting with steal is always going to start with steal at (hypothetically) skill level 1, unless they choose a subguild with it, in which case it might bump up to (hypothetically) skill level 5.

I would make it so that a guild's base skills have a chance to start from currently level to subguild starting level (or slightly higher).  Adding a subguild would cause it to choose the max of the range.  Age would increase the skew of the curve towards the upper end (but still a random pick, not static) or possibly increase the upper cap (although wisdom or something could do this too).

Are you going to come in as "skilled"?  No, and I never want to see that.  But you could come in as slightly better, and there would be more differences between starting players.  And I wouldn't see all these thread about guild x coming in with strength y being better than guild z with crappy stats at combat...because you would never again know where your starting level in relevant skills would be.

[Sephiroto]

Special Apps, for the time being, but in the future I'd like to see something karma-related for overall skill boost options on start.  Perhaps a 5, 10, 20, and 40 day (these numbers are up for debate of course) skill levels for karma levels 2, 4, 6, and 8 respectively where we can choose either no boost at all or any level of boost we have the karma for depending on the background of the character we're rolling.

Sometimes it is fun to grind.  Other times I want to play someone who is already established so I can focus on social roleplay without need to go sparring or training my skills frequently.

[spawnloser]

Sephiroto, that's where you and others, like myself, disagree.  Karma giving you skill boosts is wholly unfair to new players.  It should be only by staff approval only, and you'd better explain to the staff why they should approve it, imho.

[Sephiroto]

Sephiroto, that's where you and others, like myself, disagree.  Karma giving you skill boosts is wholly unfair to new players.  It should be only by staff approval only, and you'd better explain to the staff why they should approve it, imho.

I simply disagree with you.  Being able to play a mul or a sorc is also unfair to new players.  Isn't karma about the responsibility?  With 8 karma one can app sorc after sorc after sorc, but that isn't the case.  It goes without saying that I trust "trustworthy" players to use options responsibly.  Those who don't usually have them taken away.

[spawnloser]

Yes, but everyone playing a human ranger starts in the same boat.  Everyone playing a city elf whiran starts in the same boat.  Everyone playing a dwarf sorcerer starts in the same boat.  Karma may be a measure of trust, but it shouldn't be a mark of favoritism and privilege, which having it allow experienced characters would do.

[Synthesis]

I fail to see how "you can now play a special race!" is any less privilege or favoritism than "you can now begin with increased skills!"

In both cases,  you're giving some benefit in return for proven trustworthiness.

And newbies will get over it.  Just like they get over the fact that they can't play a Krathi right away.