All right, something someone said in another thead made me curious...and I'm not sure what to look for with the search function, so hopefully Agent_137 will be able to forgive me for starting a new thread.

Where does sexual assault stand with the templarate in Allanak?

You get beat up and dragged down for taking a swing at someone in the street, so I'd imagine that if the code is a reliable picture of the law in Allanak, sexual assault/rape/things of that nature would be a quick trip to a long wait...in prison.

Obviously "rape" isn't coded (and god, let it never happen) but if you ran and alerted a PC templar that you'd just had forced sexual intercourse, what would her/his reaction be?  Can people get crim-flagged for that shit?  And does this extend to things such as domestic violence?

Somebody said Allanak was like a police state, which I thought was pretty apt.  But then again, sex is supposed to be handled differently on Zalanthas.  *shrug*  So.  Thoughts?

I don't think it's actually against the law. Not sure though, I don't think this question has been asked before.

I don't think rape would be different from assault in Allanak, Tuluk or anywhere else that isn't a tribe.
Zalanthans are probably just very desentisized to these things, and sex as a whole is much less of a taboo, both as far as sexual relations and rape goes, imho.

If you tell a templar that Jane commoner is getting raped in an alley by a couple of 'rinthis, the templar might slap you with a fine, a lashing or even a day in prison if you annoy them with it.  Of course, some templars might really, really hate rape (from disliking half-elves maybe) and do more than what they would do about ordinary non-lethal assault.

Depends on the Templar.  Depends on the size of the "donation" made to do something about it.  Depends on the social status of the victim.  Depends on the social status of the attacker.

Rape is illegal in both cities, I believe.  And I believe the standing policy is that a majority of the known world have little to no tolerance for that behavior.

Really?

I would have thought that the templarate/miltia simply doesn't care at all about crimes committed in private, and in public rape would be just as illegal as any other form of excessive public lewdness/violence.

Edit: Unless, of course, the accuser had money and/or social status to motivate said templar/soldier.  Again, though, that's the same as any other crime or non-crime that has no evidence.

QuoteRape is illegal in both cities, I believe. And I believe the standing policy is that a majority of the known world have little to no tolerance for that behavior.

That seems odd to me, given the number of half-elves about.

Quote from: "Conspiracy Theory"That seems odd to me, given the number of half-elves about.

The playerbase is not an accurate sample of the population...though to be fair there do seem to be a lot of half-elven npcs as well.

Whores, drunken debauchery, etc, etc.. though the documentation does say that they are frequently the children of rape.

Quote from: "ashyom"Rape is illegal in both cities, I believe.  And I believe the standing policy is that a majority of the known world have little to no tolerance for that behavior.

If this truly is the case, I must say I'm a little sad.  There are enough 'countermeasures' to rape in the game.  In fact, there are more than enough, since players are can, with a single OOC word, prevent their character from being raped no matter how, when or why.  (With the possible exceptions of plot lines, at which case the character will probably be killed or made a VNPC).
It's enough that the twinks will almost always want to kill a character who'd commited rape and will go to unlikely lengths to do so, but sending the Militia and Templarate after them is ridiculous.

Having the consent rule to monitor rape is just fine.  If violent muggings happen every day and are an expected part of life, I don't see why the degenerate Zalanthan society should have zero-tolerance for rape.  Even murder isn't always accepted, and human purity or well-being isn't usually listed very high.
Many aides, male and female, are practically expected to give sexual favors to their employers.  Same as merchants.  There are prostitutes at all levels of society, from the 5-'sid nobodies to super-influential wenches that charge over 700 a pop.  Concubines are commonly available for sale, again for practically all price ranges.  The whole attitude regarding sex, in every location of the game I've seen with the sole, possible exception of Tuluki nobles and templars, is extremely relaxed.
In Zalanthas, I think most rape victims would be more happy about not being dead or having any bones broken than they would be upset about having been raped.

I'm not saying rape is shrugged at in Zalanthas, but rape is not a fate worse than death over there.  I think there are enough OOC views that will inevitably seep in whenever rape is involved.
If rape is looked at as worse (or even nearly as terrible) as murder, I suggest this is given serious reconsideration.

Of course, this all varies on bribes and social ranking.  Someone who raped a young noble should, definitely, have more assassins in a ten-mile radius around him than grains of sand in a twenty-mile radius.

Kinda confused by this as well.

Kind of goes out of the 'might makes right' feel of the game, in my opinion.  As well as the not caring about anyone but yourself deal.

Not that I expect players to do it, but I never thought it would be altogether uncommon in the lower classes.  You see how often it happens in america, and that's where people -do- hate it and it -is- actively worked against and everyone does have their rights.

Seems to be almost counter-cultural to me, though...that could just be me being retarded.

I agree with the others. Seems to me like it'd be a personal thing rather than any sort of "no tolerance", gather-the-torches-and-pitchforks kind of reaction from the populace, whom you don't even see blink at the mention of murder much of the time.

Sex isn't such a sacred thing on Zalanthas, or so I'm led to believe - survival takes priority. I'd think a typical victim from the commons or especially the Labyrinth (at least if I were playing them) would much rather be raped than have their sid, food, or water taken from them. Of course, such crimes might well go hand-in-hand.

Were I a high-and-mighty templar, I'd have thought the rape of a commoner (doubly so an elf or half-breed) was a pretty minor crime on par with theft, personally.

Of course, rape is a whole new level of disrespect for your betters - if you raped a noble you should well expect to be horribly maimed and killed if caught.

It being illegal seems out of place for this world. I'm sure that a human mother doesn't volunteer to mate with a dwarf to create muls. Slavery is legal and accepted but rape isn't? Seems OOC if you ask me. So what...it's rape if the victim is -not- your property?

Oh shit, I made another rape thread.  What have you done, Laura.  What have you done.

Like all things on Zalanthass, it would depend on your social status, and it would follow the same rules as assault or murder:


My thoughts:

Noble/Templar assaults any other non-noble/templar - Legal.

Commoner assaults commoner - Illegal.

Commoner assaults slave - Very much up to who owns the slave. Most likely people are going to be pissed if you fucked their property up.

Slave assaults anyone - illegal, though slave on slave is going to be up to the owner.

Noble/Templar assaults Noble/Templar - Depends. I would imagine if this was done in public it would be publicly punished. If it wasn't in public (ie in the eyes of the common) then it would be dealt with harshly or not depending on the ranks of those involved.

In all cases if it was ordered by a noble/templar it would be essentially, legal.



That said, the OC rules around this sort of thing have been stated and should be respected. I'm just trying to give some coloring to legalities.

While I agree, Zalanthas is a harsh environ, rape in such a world probably
isn't going to be considered theft.  It's more like assault, but with the
added dangers of disease being spread.  No matter how callous the
templar is, he/she is usually practical enough to be wary of rampant
raping because there is the fear of turning your city state into a giant
incubator.

The important thing to remember is that rape does not equal sex. It's a form of assault. Rape victims can be permanently injured by their assailant, not to mention shattered mentally. The templarate would stamp out rape to the best of their ability for the same reason they wouldn't allow roving gangs of elves to mug passers-by or rampant, indiscriminate killing in the streets. Sure, they might not personally care if you're stolen from, killed, or cornholed, but there job is still to enforce the law (even if the laws are of their own devising). People live in the city-states because it gives them food, water, and big stone walls that keep them relatively safe from crap like rape, murder and theft. Templars allowing gang-rape to go along unchecked would be sort of counterproductive to creating a functioning society.
There are, of course, matters of personal bias when it comes down to the specific templar. We all know that, caught in the clutches of an unscrupulous templar, you're likely going to get yourself killed or raped if you don't come up with a decent bribe. I also think a single PC templar has every right to turn away a rape victim, saying they're "too busy" to deal with it. The thing to remember, though, is that this is only one templar, and there are probably virtually dozens of other blue-robes of Jihaens that are all too eager to take down another criminal and improve their reputation. A while an elf might rape an elf and get away with it, an elf that rapes a human will probably be staring down the business end of a Gaj pretty soon.
My point is that rape is illegal in the city-states. Protection from things like murder, rape and theft are pretty basic things people expect from their government. It's probably the only reason they don't attempt to simply get up and leave the state, in fact. While enforcement of the law might vary from situation to situation or player to player, the fact is that the law exists, and it is IC, realistic, and perfectly reasonable.

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Quote from: "Intrepid"No matter how callous the templar is, he/she is usually practical enough to be wary of rampant raping because there is the fear of turning your city state into a giant incubator.

I doubt most templars really care about any small-scale (fifty deaths or less) epidemics.  You'd have to rape a whole lot of unimportant people for the Templarate to take notice, and even then they might not care much as long as you only assaulted unimportant people.
I don't think it's very IC to say that the Templarate, in both cities, probably have their ways to deal with epidemics even if they do break out.  And Zalanthas doesn't have STDs like AIDS.
There are two common diseases that are basically similar to pubic lice with bloody urine, and only one other disease that rarely leads to death.

I don't think it's out of place for rape to be illegal. I agree that a) Zalanthans would be uber desensitized to it, b) The templar don't care much, and c) Rape isn't as severely looked upon as it is IRL. But rape is still rape, and by definition unconsentual.

It's not illegal for someone to give you some coins, but it is illegal for someone to take your coins. Think of rape along the same lines. Maybe rape would only be a 50 coin fine, but it would still be a fine. I know if I were a templar / militiaman and I saw a rape, I would treat it at least the same way I would treat a barfight. With a swift "Stop that, stop that" and/or an asskicking of appropriate magnitude.

Rape is violent. A fight is violent. I really don't see how the templarate could care about brawls but not rape. I just don't.

QuoteI don't think it's very IC to say that the Templarate, in both cities, probably have their ways to deal with epidemics even if they do break out. And Zalanthas doesn't have STDs like AIDS.

Actually, syphllis is one of the classic old world STDs, and it leads to
insanity and death.  It's also particularly virulent and can potentially
infect an enclosed civilization like a city-state from top to bottom within
the space of ten years.  Fifty people aren't going to phase the templarate,
I agree--500 will though.  Given the primitive medical knowledge in
Zalanthas, enclosed communities that are all interconnected by merchants
and Bynners, and no real compunctions against sexual intercourse with
multiple partners, the potential for disaster is great enough--now
imagine about ten people raping scores of individuals and spreading an
infection in one of the city-states without law enforcement cracking down.
There is a limited populace in the the Known World, and most of it is
centralized in two cities and a handful of villages.  You don't even need
something as severe as AIDS to wipe out the populace.

Even if we don't use the Syphllis example, an STD doesn't have to be
fatal to make the local authorities' lives a collective living hell.

It is theft (or mugging) afterall.

One person gets happier, one gets more pissed off and abused.

Quote from: "jhunter"I don't think it's actually against the law. Not sure though, I don't think this question has been asked before.

 Before you start talking about legal.. illegal...    consider one important thing...


   The Mud Rules...


Any laws are going to fit around them..    Rape without  permission is one of the few ways to get the  staff to reach through your internet connection.. strangle you.. then throw your computer out a window.

I'm going to sum up the STD issue with this:

Quote from: "Zalanthan Illnesses"
Lover's Bleed - Well known to be spread sexually, this affliction manifests as bloody urine, pelvic pain, and a red, itchy rash on the thighs. Those [/i]rare few[/i] who don't improve over a matter of days will note that their volume of urine gradually decreases over the course of weeks, until they can no longer urinate. After the cessation of urination, the victim grows slowly but progressively confused and then comatose, before inevitably dying. Those in the sex trade often use various fragrant salves applied daily to the genitals to prevent this common disease.

Sand Fleas - Sand Fleas are much like Kank Fleas, though they strike only the genital area. They are transmitted through sexual contact and sleeping in a contaminated bed or wearing contaminated clothing. They cause itching and blue spots on the skin can sometimes appear. They can be removed by removal of infested hair and something acidic put on the skin.

Zagu-La - A person suffering from any number of the symptoms of genital itching, pus filled urine, irritating groin rash, or genital sores is generally said to have Zagu-La. Also called Crotch Rot by the lowest classes, this extraordinarily common affliction is spread sexually, and, some scholars and physicians argue, is likely Zalanthas's most prevalent ailment. There are almost as many treatments to prevent or cure this self limited condition as there are sands in the Red Desert, particularly among those in the sex trade. The measures include various charmed body tattoos, wooden talismans, and in Allanak the practice of eating one rotten fruit a week.

These are the three sicknesses that can spread sexually.  Of them, only one is actually lethal, and even that is pretty rare.  There are treatments for most of them, of varying success of course, but wealthy enough people can muster the 'sids for a good herbalist or to get a magicker to help.

Rape is not legal in Allanak, and you're unlikely to get away from raping someone while a templar is watching unless the said templar really enjoyed the show.  Same as assault, and same as murder.  The Templarate is not likely to spend a month investigating the murder of one Joe Commoner by a Jake Commoner if there isn't anything in it that provides a good interest for them.  Pay a very large bribe and maybe they will.  Get a social ranking and maybe they will.  Just ask them...heh.

Rape is illegal and in the eyes of the Law is viewed just like assault in Allanak.  The victim's social status will likely determine the punishment, just like if you attacked someone.