Armageddon General Discussion Board

Can someone tell me the current karma "rate"?

When I say "rate" I mean two things:

-when people got their first karma and how often they got there later

And

-How often the staff hands out karma on average

Just a small Poll I'm taking, yet want to hear about your experiences.

Completely random. I got my first bit of karma very early, lost than and got it back plus some since then. Was even told it was about time I got some more by Sanvean, but then she went on vacation, and its kind of a taboo for me to email in about that sort of thing. So im sitting pretty with two points. I guess it differs greatly from person to person. I suggest you simply play out a character as the character, not worry about the karma. After getting some, I don't know what all the hype is about really. The roles can be interesting and all, but also lonely. Don't play for karma, really. Even with my few new options, I still go back to the tried and true most often.

Summary - Two years or so and Two karma.

EDIT: I looked at your post and was thinking that you may have also been asking for what comes when... so I'll take a stab.

1 karma- Desert elf
2 karma- Vivaduan, and Rukkian elementalists Water and Stone
3 karma- Half-giant
4 karma- Whiran and Krathi? - Wind and Fire
5 karma- drovian?Elkrozian? It gets shady for me at this point, im only sure up to three really.

So I'll leave it there for someone else to fill in.

I received my first (and so far, only) taste of karma very recently. I had been playing within a clan on and off for a RL year. I was awarded karma when I accepted a leadership role in the clan, along with a note stating the karma was for my 'consistant' roleplay in non-leader roles. I got my first taste of karma with only my third character, my first two dying before even five hours of gameplay. I was a fumbling newb when I started my third character, but by playing often, contributing to the game, staying IC, learning quickly and all that good stuff, I managed to scrape up my first bit of karma. I feel I earned it.

I very much agree that people shouldn't play solely to gain karma, however, I've always possessed a sort of drive to play magickers I just can't seem to shake, and sympathize with people who are eager for new race/guild options.

As for what classes and races are awarded when, (not sure if you were asking, but I'll put it here anyways), this was posted by Sanvean a while ago, on this topic: http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=831&start=0

Quote1 karma - desert elf
2 karma - water and stone elementalist
3 karma - half giant
4 karma - wind and fire elementalist
5 karma - lightning and shadow elementalist
6 karma - void elementalist
7 karma - mul
8 karma - psi and sorcerer

I'm going to post this anonymously just to avoid any "they have karma, and I don't?" thoughts...because I know I don't have mad roleplay skillz but I try :)

I've been playing for a year.   I got 2 karma points with my second character, which lasted quite a long time.   So I didn't know I had 2 karma points until I had been playing Armageddon for about 9 months.   I'm still not quite sure *why* I got karma.  I've never been reviewed or turned on the review thingy.   The closest thing to a review I've had is a couple general "you're doing well" or "you did well" type comments.    Actually I do have an idea why I got karma points, but it wasn't for flashy roleplay.  (I don't think.)   More like keeping true to the concept, keeping a character alive for a long time, having depth to the character, being responsible in an OOC sense to the clan I was in, involving other players.   I know I have a lot to learn still, but it was a nice surpirse to see that karma.

I actually haven't used the karma yet, but I will sometime!

I'll say this, it really doesn't matter and never has. The "I want Karma" is about the closest we get to skillmaxing in Arm.  It was 5 RL years before I ever got any karma, and not because of anything special.

Oneday I decided I wanted to play a certain Karma-required character, I wrote up the character and submitted it to the MUD for Special App aproval.  Sanvean saw it in the Mud account (I c.c.ed) and sent me an e-mail saying "You really should have Karma enough for that, so I gave it to you."

I never really cared about Karma, I just played my characters, when it came time that I wanted to play something that required it, it was given to me (not just what I wanted to play, but everthing in between it and the base level).

And even though I have Karma now, I still stick pretty much to the base stuf.  I think you might find you'll do the same.

Three points and I've been around for two or three years. I haven't done anything fantastic and my account notes aren't exactly the greatest. I haven't had any notably fantastic or high-key characters and I'm not one of these 'writes in 20 items for every Saturday' monsters. I've only put in two special apps and only one has been accepted. What's my secret?

Beats the fuck out of me. Right place at the right time, maybe? Karma seems to be a fickle thing, where most people probably DO deserve higher but aren't observed enough by one imm in particular to be awarded it.

My first character was just slightly over a year ago in this game. I received one karma point within the first 3 weeks from one IMP. Got another one a few weeks later from another IMP. Character lasted around 6 months.  Both of those points were awarded with comments letting me know I was getting them. At some point I received a third, between that one's death and my third character.

The third character was a recruited position by a staff member, who graciously offered me a fourth point. That was I guess after around 8 months of play time. So in a year and around 2 weeks, I've acquired four karma points total. I've had "karma characters" three times, out of seven characters.

While I am tickled to have these points - it's a great flattery to my ego afterall - I still enjoy playing the non-karma characters and plan on mixing it up often for as long as I am able.

I found that when I get karma has been almost random.  I really tend to believe that karma is more for consistent play then for that one perfect character.  I recall having one long lived character that was almost up to a year.  This guy was awesome in all respects.  He had a very deeply developed personality, some awesome quirks, great role play, great interaction, great leader, stuff happened around him, he was in a house, and all around he was a true joy to play.  He was my favorite character of all times.  The poor bastard finally dies and I expect that I must have been bumped up a point because in my mind, he was exactly what a character should be.  I was still at the same level.  

Latter on I play a few characters that were either boring to the point of tears or reckless to the point of being crazy.  They were well role played, but they were never longer then a month or two, they didn't get involved much with any houses, they were not leaders, nor anything special.  Yet, I racked up two more karma points quickly on these characters.

The point is that I don't think worrying will do much good.  From what I have personally experienced karma comes from consistently good play.  You just play well for a while and it eventually comes.  When I say 'well' I mean that you consistently play realistically.  You don't need to be in a clan, you don't need to play freakish or outlandish characters, you don't need the best emotes or even to always have a plot going.  You don't even need to be terribly social.  I have gotten karma for anti-social pick pockets and desert traders.  In fact, reflecting on it now, I don't think I have ever gotten karma while in a clan except perhaps the Byn.  What you really need to do is just be realistic.  You need to really consider the world you are playing in and how you fit into that world.

Personally, when I play and I feel like I am loosing a grip on my character, I just sit down and picture the world for what it REALLY is.  The Allanaki bazaar for instance is not just clump of rooms where you can buy stuff.  Picture it in your head.  It is a noisy place.  There must be the constant hum of bartering going on.  There are entertainers, sketchy elves, shouting, templars, soldiers shoving past, the occasional towering half giant, and merchants constantly hassling you to look at their products.  When a sandstorm hits it isn't just slowed movement.  It is a terrible wind that can almost nock you off your feet.  You constantly are fighting seeing forward and keeping your eyes from being sandblasted.  You keep your skin under cover, and whenever you speak, you scream at the top of your lungs to speak over the terrible roar of the wind tearing down the nearly empty streets.  Just consider the environment, then try and put your character there.  

I find that when I really feel like I can't get into character, I emote and think everything.  I turn a trip from the tavern to the bazaar into an ordeal.  A caravan tries to run me down, and elf hawks his worthless crap at me, a bum tries to snatch a few 'sid, a half-breed bumps into me because he is being careless, a group of Allanaki soldiers lead by a templar shove past.  I just emote out all of these things and consider how I would respond.  Generally, I am far more in tune with the game after I have done this.  This is my personal technique for always keeping my feet planted in the game.  I find that doing this becomes even more useful when I feel a character is dull and he is getting little interaction.  Really creating an environment to interact in helps to keep the character from becoming a boring bump on the log.

Further, I have had the most fun with non-karma classes.  Being a drovian might sound cool in principle, but in practice you are going to spend a lot of time doing nothing.  That mean old mercenary of yours on the other hand is a lot more likely to see constant action and have constant interaction.  Your creepy old magiker is more likely to mold away in a temple for a while and occasionally be brought out to do something terrible, like tear open the soul of a disrespectful commoner.  Karma races and classes are the folks who can be horrifically powerful at times and can see perhaps some of the cooler and darker mysteries of the games.  At the same time though, they are always going to be held at arms length when it comes to everyday interaction.  You really need to have the patience of a saint at times while using Karma classes or be content solo RPing.  I have never retired a mundane character and class or wished hope against hope that they die.  I have retired karma classes before and there have been times where I have prayed for a crazy elf to slice my throat open.

Play the game consistently and really aware of your environment.  Honestly, I think that if you can really grasp the environment and the world you are playing in, you have done the hardest part.  Once you really understand the world, everything else just comes together from there.  If you understand the world then you know what sort of roles are being done well, and what roles are being done poorly.  From understanding your environment, it is easy to determine what twinkish and bad RP, and what is not.  Just getting your mind into the environment I believe is the biggest and most important part.  From there, everything else just falls together.

For me having karma must be like being a monk with a large penis. I don't have much occasion to use it but I'd like having it.

Of course, I could lie to all my friends, "You should see my karma, it's huge. Absolutely huge. Eight levels of hard throbbing karma." And of course since they've never seen my karma they couldn't know.

But ultimately it's not really nice to show people your karma unless you're really planning to use it.

Rindan said it best.   The advantages of karma classes and races do not often make up for their social disadvantages.  Desert Elves and Muls are two of my favorite races, but man do they have issues when it comes to interaction, especially the latter.

Honestly, in my mind, it doesn't get much better than a buff human ranger.  Sure out in the desert they don't have the advantages a mul or a desert elf might have, but they can just bring 5 friends along and that's that.

Two of my longest lived characters were a desert elf ranger and a mul ranger.  And so often I'd find myself wishing I could just go to town and strike up a conversation when you just can't.  Plots come few and far between for karma races.  Karma guilds mixed with non-karma races have it a little easier, especially if they keep what they are up to secret.

QuoteFor me having karma must be like being a monk with a large penis. I don't have much occasion to use it but I'd like having it.

Of course, I could lie to all my friends, "You should see my karma, it's huge. Absolutely huge. Eight levels of hard throbbing karma." And of course since they've never seen my karma they couldn't know.

*Insert gratitous alter-boy molestation joke here*

QuoteBut ultimately it's not really nice to show people your karma unless you're really planning to use it.

Wait..   are you still drawing a parallel between your Ron Jeremey Monk and karma here?

I was actually kind of rambling a bit. I left the whole monk thing behind in paragraph one.

It works nonetheless in a sort of insect-politics way.

I was one of the lucky people, I "got the game" pretty early on and became addicted, played as often as I could, my character lasted for about three, maybe four months and I got karma from it. I've recieved a total of four awards of karma, three granted, one taking away of, and it being granted again, I am about to hit my second year on Armageddon and I foolishly hope I am learning from my mistakes and will eventually get more karma. None of my special roles have been accepted and I'll still keep applying for them, till they yell at me and tell me to stop. :wink:

The awarding of karma is highly dependent on lots of things, I know sometimes I've seen people in roles and thought about how bland their roleplaying is and how I'd do better. Then there's others playing regular Bynners which I think why in the hell is this person not a templar? It's just not how well you roleplay, it's not just how consistent you are, it's not just how imaginative your characters can be, it's a combination of things that, a buffet of qualities that only the Imms get to choose and pick through.

I like to think they are pretty good at awarding. Call me a hopeless sap, but I like to think that as a whole, the staff is pretty good at telling who is and who is not capable of something, willing to take a chance on someone that they're not completely certain about, and smart enough to do what needs to be done should they be wrong.

ShaLeah
-who covets longingly for certain karmas and is positive if she ever gets that karma the characters will all be short lived.

QuoteI know sometimes I've seen people in roles and thought about how bland their roleplaying is and how I'd do better. Then there's others playing regular Bynners which I think why in the hell is this person not a templar? It's just not how well you roleplay, it's not just how consistent you are, it's not just how imaginative your characters can be, it's a combination of things that, a buffet of qualities that only the Imms get to choose and pick through.

Huh.  I've never heard the imms say anything other than that karma was a measure of trust.  Thus some dude who could emote his way to a RP award but would turn around and go do lame-o things would not get much karma, but someone who played their role true to form but perhaps not the flashiest would earn karma.

I think its players who have decided that high karma = must be able to emote awesomely and turned it into some sort of 'I emote better than that magicker but I only have 1 karma' contest.

I agree CRW. Karma is given on the base of trust. If the imms feel they can't trust you, they take it away. If they feel they can, they give it. Of course, that doesn't mean you can't earn karma for "excellent roleplay".

I have come to realize things from friends who have given me advice, and also from emails from either staff members or helpers, and that advice is: Karma is not important.

And you know, I have finally begun to realize that. In a sense, I look at the world in a totally different way. Used to, I felt I had to "impress staff members with my roleplay skills to earn karma and respect. Now I know that is not true. As long as you play out your character, and play it consistently, faithfully, and deligently, you will eventually earn the trust needed to play a karma guild/race.

But, back to the topic of the original thread:

Trenidor, I don't think there is an actual "rate" to the amount of time it takes to receive any given amount of karma. If I HAD to guess, though, I would think a mean of 1 karma point per year spent on the mud would be a fair guess...Hope that helps. :D

Quote from: "CRW"Huh.  I've never heard the imms say anything other than that karma was a measure of trust.  Thus some dude who could emote his way to a RP award but would turn around and go do lame-o things would not get much karma, but someone who played their role true to form but perhaps not the flashiest would earn karma.

I know that it's a measure of trust, but it's not only a measure of trust.

QuoteMain Entry: [1]trust
Pronunciation: 'tr&st
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, probably of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old Norse traust trust; akin to Old English trEowe faithful —more at TRUE
Date: 13th century
1 a : assured reliance on the character, ability, strength, or truth of someone or something b : one in which confidence is placed
2 a : dependence on something future or contingent : HOPE b : reliance on future payment for property (as merchandise) delivered : CREDIT
3 a : a property interest held by one person for the benefit of another b : a combination of firms or corporations formed by a legal agreement; especially : one that reduces or threatens to reduce competition
4 : archaic : TRUSTWORTHINESS
5 a (1) : a charge or duty imposed in faith or confidence or as a condition of some relationship (2) : something committed or entrusted to one to be used or cared for in the interest of another b : responsible charge or office c : CARE, CUSTODY <the child committed to her trust>
- in trust : in the care or possession of a trustee


© 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
Merriam-Webster Privacy Policy

The only way to trust someone is to place trust in them. For every measure of trust we place in them that they do not break, the trust grows and it continues to grow with every time that you trust someone and they don't break that. Eventually it becomes a matter of knowing this person is trustworthy, why? Because when you've trusted them, they haven't let you down. You can't earn trust without taking a leap of faith.

I'm not by any means saying that earning karma is only due to someone's ability to emote, if that's what you gathered from my words, that's not what I meant. It's just not that simple.
Maybe it's naive of  me to think that other factors aside from 'trust' are taken into account when awarding karma but that's still how I think.
I also still think that the Immortals have a pretty good system of choosing and awarding but in the end, they're still human too, they are still going to have players that they like and don't like, styles they like and they can't stand, characters they roll their eyes at and those they watch constantly.  Am I wrong?

Quote from: "Forest Junkie"Karma is not important.

Is trust important? Not that I don't agree with the statement, not that people haven't given me the same advice, but how is karma not important if it is a measure of trust and being awarded it is a sign that the immortals trust you or don't?

Play your character to the best of your ability, follow the example of those people in game that you admire, be mindful of the rules, bear in mind that this is a game and it's for your enjoyment and that of others, contribute to the world by adding your touch, your craftable items, your NPCs, your ideas, your typos, ask for feedback and listen to it, challenge your limitations, 'feel' the world and what it says to you, make your place within it.
Trust/Karma will come in time but in the end, it's what keeps you coming back that matters.  At least to me.


ShaLeah
-who seems to have gone off on a little rant.  :oops:

Meh. The Karma options are cool, and they might let you in on a few secrets, but the basic options will still be the most "interesting" to play if you're looking for interaction, and for the ability to get your character involved in a wide variety of things.

Not that I wouldn't enjoy sizzling someone's ass with bolts of lightning, but the problem with magickers (and really, the problem with anything karma besides half-giants) is the fact that there are going to be slow times. No matter HOW good you are at keeping your character mixed up in the middle of things, there's gonna be times when you are the only one that can keep yourself occupied.

Not that I don't want Karma, but I don't see the point in being overly worried about it. I'm human, I'd like to have the option to play a mul/sorcerer/psi if I wanted to, but there are countless possibilities for characters that are available using only the basic options, so hey, I can be patient. ;)

Quotea mean of 1 karma point per year spent on the mud would be a fair guess

Why the heck Don't I have any Karma?

-3 year player

Quote from: "Guest"

Quotea mean of 1 karma point per year spent on the mud would be a fair guess

Why the heck Don't I have any Karma?

-3 year player

Because they don't drop a level of karma for every year you spend playing.  That was one persons estimate.  I know for me personally, I started at about one a year, then in one year got three or four.

As to why you personally don't know, you and the imms are the only ones who can answer that.  Drop a line to the account if it is really bothering you and ask what is up.  Don't bother asking over the GDB, as no on here can help you.

Alotta people dont understand the IC ways to add karma to your account.  Killing people because they have newbie equipment is a good way. If you collect 20 noob backpacks you can trade them in for karma.

Seriously though. The advice above is true. Just play that char and you will be noticed. Sooner if its in a house from my experience.

QuoteIf you collect 20 noob backpacks you can trade them in for karma.

Heh, funny stuff.

I've been playings since 2008 i'm still a newb at a lot of things, but i have not recieved karma yet.
i think its mostly my ooc reaction and snarky remarks to something that happened to one of my earlier characters that i think shouldn't have happened that way. but either way i'm still playing this game and hoping that someone notices me.

I still feel horrible for what i said to the staff but thats in the past i've learned.

Play realistically, whether or not it is a positive or negative influence on your character. So long as it is IC for your character to behave, it will be noticed and awarded appropriately. If it think it isn't, either being noticed or being rewarded appropriately, then contact the staff and ask for a review of your account notes. Sometimes people fall through the cracks.

see thats the thing as much as i've played on some of my characters it looks like not one imm has ever noticed me playing the game, i also found out today that when i typed review it told me they would be watching me which i never knew about. Also didn't notice how old this thread was lol. Either way it goes i play my characters the way they would act and interact with others.

Other than my snarky remarks WHICH I REGRET, my account notes are completely empty and full of dust from sitting there

DON'T FEED THE ZOMBIE THREADS

What

Quote from: spacewars on August 06, 2010, 03:10:04 AM
What

The thread is seven years old.  Oh, and send in a request.

Quote from: Synthesis on August 06, 2010, 03:09:24 AM
DON'T FEED THE ZOMBIE THREADS

I applaud his ability to use the search feature to find a relevant thread, and explore it. If only half of the vets would utilize this we probably wouldn't be up to the 6,452 page. Because half of them are repeats of the ANSI thread, Skill levels showing thread, and what else -- been too long to remember.

Quote from: spacewars on August 06, 2010, 02:18:43 AM
I've been playings since 2008 i'm still a newb at a lot of things, but i have not recieved karma yet.

Old son, I say this to help you, not to insult you: your posts contain a lot of careless punctuation and capitalization mistakes.  Do you make these mistakes in-game, too?  I'm not saying that's the Kiss of Death for getting any staff love (I've seen templars with consistent punctuation mistakes), but it can't help.

Aside from what jhunter said, special-apping for an option just above your karma level (desert elf, or possible Vivaduan/Rukkian) is a good way to (a) try out those parts of the game and (b) give staff special reason to pay attention to how well you're playing them.

Quote from: spacewars on August 06, 2010, 02:18:43 AM
I've been playings since 2008 i'm still a newb at a lot of things, but i have not recieved karma yet.

...

Other than my snarky remarks WHICH I REGRET, my account notes are completely empty and full of dust from sitting there

Just like in real life, sometimes it's hard to get noticed, and the fact that your account notes are empty explains why you have no karma.

I don't know anything about you, or any characters you've played, but if you play an average, middling character that lives to maybe 10 days played, joins a clan, makes some friends and has some personal drama and then dies, you'll never get noticed.  You could do that a hundred times over, and still, your chances of getting noticed are slim and none.

Think of it this way:  If there are 60 players online, and let's assume 5 staff members that are free to watch characters doing things, why would they stop and watch your character?

There are a few things you can do:

1. Solicit staff attention, either through the review flag, or special app roles.  This can be hit or miss, but my understanding is a lot of people get karma, or access to special roles this way.

2. Play a funny/unique/interesting character, and I don't mean funny/unique/interesting to you.  You know those characters people talk about on the GDB, that had great one-liners, or had other people lining up to play around just because they liven things up?  Those characters get watched.

3. Play a character responsible for a slice of the game world.  This is a game we play to have fun and, oftentimes, avoid responsibility, so the staff tend to love characters that take on responsibility.  Take charge, get other people moving, submit reports to your clan staff via the request tool about how you're moving and shaking, and make the staff watch you just so they can keep up with what's happening.

Edited for corrections, per spawnloser's post.

Correction on what Old Kank said:  Do NOT mail reports to clan staff but use the request tool to send your reports.  That is all.

I can't quote from the phone. (So frustrating.) I disagree with old kank. I don't play for the imms. Almost every pc I play is a red shirt. I do however seem to do alright with staff recognition.
My suggestions are:
Special app
Send in the occasional report and update.
Bio.
If you feel overlooked send in a polite note.

By the way, I think this is absolutely the right thread.

I got my first karma just a week ago because I put in a request to see my account notes,  to see if there was something negative on them. I wanted to know because I didn't have Karma, and I thought I must have done something wrong.

The Imm gave me the point because there were no notes whatso ever. Means I couldn't have been doing anything majorly wrong, and because I have been plying nearly a year.

Be proactive in getting your karma, is my advice.

Two or three of the points I have were gained by seeking out special apps. or through hooking up with special positions when Staff called for them.

Be patient, is the other half of my advice.  Karma will come, but it isn't an end in it's self.  Playing that d-elf or that magicker won't make you a better role-player.

..but I admit, it's nice having the options to play the higher karma rolls.

Quote from: Pale Horse on August 06, 2010, 03:30:52 PM

Be patient, is the other half of my advice.  Karma will come, but it isn't an end in it's self.  Playing that d-elf or that magicker won't make you a better role-player.

That is true, but getting the chance to try out a karma restricted role sometimes makes you realize you're good at some particular kind of roleplaying. If that's the case, the staff usually notice it as well.

Edited to add: I suppose the same goes for non-karma guilds/races but I guess karma was the topic at hand.

I wish that staff were just a bit more consistent about this sort of stuff.  The amount of love that is handed out is definitely spread unevenly.  Consider two players who play consistently, observe criticism and don't cheat and have been playing for four years.  One might have eight karma, right?  Now you would assume that the other player would have at least one quarter of the love that the other player does...but in fact he might have zero karma.

The thing is, that there is no single person who is at fault for this.  I really kinda wish that there were a layer of quality control on the game to help smooth out the love just a little.

Quote from: Pale Horse on August 06, 2010, 03:30:52 PM
Be proactive in getting your karma, is my advice.

Two or three of the points I have were gained by seeking out special apps. or through hooking up with special positions when Staff called for them.

Be patient, is the other half of my advice.  Karma will come, but it isn't an end in it's self.  Playing that d-elf or that magicker won't make you a better role-player.

..but I admit, it's nice having the options to play the higher karma rolls.

I just love how magick works in this game, and peoples reactions. I want to try all the elements. Hey, I'm a huge magick lover. It's why I came here, in the first place. Still here because I love it. Though i did special app me a rukkian once. Loved every second of it.

If you are in roles which require some degree of responsibility (sending in reports, handling other PCs/minions, keeping plots running) you should naturally get karma where it is due. Sometimes folks fall through the cracks, but I'm of the experience the staff keeps up with this pretty well, so long as players are keeping in touch with them.

That said, it's definitely easier getting karma in the high-octane, world-changing roles like merchant house families, leader roles in tribes, military groups (Byn or militia), and in the Noble Houses which have dedicated staff.

I don't have any karma, but a relatively high karma app I submitted was accepted, which made me happy and made me feel that I had a chance to prove to the staff that I could play high-karma roles well.

Then I screwed it up horribly. But having the chance was very nice :)

How big was the karma leap, Jengal? I'm thinking of sending in a spec app and I don't really care about the middle tier guilds or races.

well it was pretty much the middlest tier.

Karma 4.

so a 4 leap.

Cool, that should be enough. Thanks.

My special app was a 2tier leap, to stone mage. There wasn't even a question, just took... about 2 weeks for approval.

I'm somehow thinking that "4 more than you got" is the unofficial limit on special apps for karma-limited options.

all the special apps come out when I have a pc that's doing fun things, or involved in fun plots. Le sigh..... One day I shall app a templar or family member.

but... and this is dumb.... What's the diff between an Agent and a trader?

Quote from: Fredd on August 06, 2010, 09:02:47 PM
all the special apps come out when I have a pc that's doing fun things, or involved in fun plots. Le sigh..... One day I shall app a templar or family member.

but... and this is dumb.... What's the diff between an Agent and a trader?

Agents and such deal with employees, mostly, Merchants deal with customers and the like.

Traders trade things and do the smooth talking with clients for the House.
Agents pretty much keep the workers in line and deal with problems - however they see fit for the House's best interests.  Sort of like an overseer; how they go about doing this depends on the character.

Quote from: brytta.leofa on August 06, 2010, 08:21:08 AM

Quote from: spacewars on August 06, 2010, 02:18:43 AM
I've been playings since 2008 i'm still a newb at a lot of things, but i have not recieved karma yet.

Old son, I say this to help you, not to insult you: your posts contain a lot of careless punctuation and capitalization mistakes.  Do you make these mistakes in-game, too?  I'm not saying that's the Kiss of Death for getting any staff love (I've seen templars with consistent punctuation mistakes), but it can't help.

I'd consider it a kiss of death.
I wouldn't want to monitor a char that types like shit, read his emotes, or even bother with them unless staffing was my job - being volunteers, I can't blame them for not wanting to strain their eyes.
That's also not meant to insult.

Poor punctuation and grammar is a pretty big kicker, I'm sure.
I'd rather read nothing than this:
"oh hey guys so i gots this nuew bone dagar mind if use it on yu"

Of course, if you keep glaring typos in your sentences to a minimum... then I'm sure it's no big deal.  There's a difference between typing like a dilznick and having a few typos in spelling here and there.

Quote from: Gobbleneck on August 06, 2010, 09:11:16 PM
Traders trade things and do the smooth talking with clients for the House.
Agents pretty much keep the workers in line and deal with problems - however they see fit for the House's best interests.  Sort of like an overseer; how they go about doing this depends on the character.

Quote from: brytta.leofa on August 06, 2010, 08:21:08 AM

Quote from: spacewars on August 06, 2010, 02:18:43 AM
I've been playings since 2008 i'm still a newb at a lot of things, but i have not recieved karma yet.

Old son, I say this to help you, not to insult you: your posts contain a lot of careless punctuation and capitalization mistakes.  Do you make these mistakes in-game, too?  I'm not saying that's the Kiss of Death for getting any staff love (I've seen templars with consistent punctuation mistakes), but it can't help.

I'd consider it a kiss of death.
I wouldn't want to monitor a char that types like shit, read his emotes, or even bother with them unless staffing was my job - being volunteers, I can't blame them for not wanting to strain their eyes.
That's also not meant to insult.

Poor punctuation and grammar is a pretty big kicker, I'm sure.
I'd rather read nothing than this:
"oh hey guys so i gots this nuew bone dagar mind if use it on yu"

Of course, if you keep glaring typos in your sentences to a minimum... then I'm sure it's no big deal.  There's a difference between typing like a dilznick and having a few typos in spelling here and there.

You just hate my typing Gobble. :P

 ;)

All the Karma roles can be fairly isolated. There are a few exceptions I think but for the most part the second you start getting into powerful classes the more isolated you get. Sometimes you get lucky and group up with others of your "kind" but even then it's a complete crap shoot.

I'd like to see more Karma, personally, for me, but I noticed in the end it doesn't really matter. You can app sponsored roles or go for special apps and end up with the same opportunities.

Quote from: janeshephard on August 06, 2010, 11:10:30 PM
All the Karma roles can be fairly isolated. There are a few exceptions I think but for the most part the second you start getting into powerful classes the more isolated you get. Sometimes you get lucky and group up with others of your "kind" but even then it's a complete crap shoot.

I'd like to see more Karma, personally, for me, but I noticed in the end it doesn't really matter. You can app sponsored roles or go for special apps and end up with the same opportunities.

The most fun I've ever had playing the game was with non-karma roles. Not to say I haven't had fun with my karma or sponsored roles but the -most- fun has been with my non-karma options.

Isn't there still a review flag?

My experience?  I got accepted for a noble role fairly early in my career on Armageddon, somewhere in my first half dozen characters.  I gained a couple karma for always keeping my people busy, keeping them interested and generally being an IC drama llama.  It was awesome.  Since then my karma increase has been somewhat steady (though I won't give a frequency or total), all the while mostly playing characters that were unclanned, with a few sprinkled in that were clanned.  I've gotten about the same attention while clanned as unclanned as well, and I'm of the opinion that is because I'm always keeping staff informed of what I'm doing.  I've had short-lived characters and long-lived characters, and it's generally (again, in my experience) being long-lived and consistent while being open and communicative with the staff, that has seen the most attention in both quantity and appreciation on the staff's part.

Dude, i've been playing for like five years and I have 1 karma. Maybe my role play is just super shitty? Don't know what to tell you. I manage to have fun regardless.

Over the past ten years I don't think I've ever had a karma bump I didn't ask for.

Submit a request for your account notes and ask for a review of your karma. Make a bit of a case for yourself, and viola... Karma.

Just don't get greedy.

Quote from: Aruven on August 07, 2010, 07:07:27 AMDude, i've been playing for like five years and I have 1 karma. Maybe my role play is just super shitty? Don't know what to tell you. I manage to have fun regardless.

Quote from: Kankman on August 07, 2010, 12:56:04 PM
Over the past ten years I don't think I've ever had a karma bump I didn't ask for.

Submit a request for your account notes and ask for a review of your karma. Make a bit of a case for yourself, and viola... Karma.

Just don't get greedy.

If you think you're being ignored, do this.

offtopic: However, I had to point out, 'viola'?  lol!  I would love to get music instruments as a bard, free with purchase of karma!

For me:

I got 2 Karma, after a year of play
Then a year after that, I got 2 more Karma
Six months later, I got 1 more Karma

Five years later, nothing still

I don't understand Karma, really... besides I haven't played a solid karma role in awhile.

Sometimes it's about showing that you can play those high-karma roles responsibly.  Like I said, play a high-profile or high-karma role that has a decent impact on the world around him/her while remaining communicative and honest with the staff about your character's motivations.

If I had been playing for a long time, I would spec-app for a karma role. And then, update staff regularly on my characters doing and things of that nature.

About six or so months ago I had my account notes checked and to my knowledge, I had no karma as of that time.

Request tool
Question
Dear Staff,
I have been playing for fourteen years. As of this date, I do not have any karma. Can you give me your thoughts on why I have not been awarded any, and some ideas about what I could do to earn Karma?
Thanks for your help.

Quote from: Barzalene on August 07, 2010, 09:35:46 PM
Request tool
Question
Dear Staff,
I have been playing for fourteen years. As of this date, I do not have any karma. Can you give me your thoughts on why I have not been awarded any, and some ideas about what I could do to earn Karma?
Thanks for your help.

Dear Barzalene,
We appreciate your continued play, and while we feel you are a valuable asset to the game, we do not believe you're capable of handling roles beyond the street beggar, poop scooper, or boot cleaner. In other words, you're a total newb, and you might as well go back to playing COD4.

Sincerely,
Arm Staff.

Quote from: FightClub on August 08, 2010, 01:37:00 AM

Quote from: Barzalene on August 07, 2010, 09:35:46 PM
Request tool
Question
Dear Staff,
I have been playing for fourteen years. As of this date, I do not have any karma. Can you give me your thoughts on why I have not been awarded any, and some ideas about what I could do to earn Karma?
Thanks for your help.

Dear Barzalene,
We appreciate your continued play, and while we feel you are a valuable asset to the game, we do not believe you're capable of handling roles beyond the street beggar, poop scooper, or boot cleaner. In other words, you're a total newb, and you might as well go back to playing COD4.

Sincerely,
Arm Staff.

Dear Fight Club, step into my office. You're fucking fired.
Sincerely,

Your loving Armageddon Staff.  :P

Occasionally submitting player logs of your RP used to be a good way to get bumped up to through the first few karma levels.  Some of you folks might want to give that a shot.

Quote from: Fredd on August 06, 2010, 09:02:47 PM
all the special apps come out when I have a pc that's doing fun things, or involved in fun plots. Le sigh..... One day I shall app a templar or family member.

but... and this is dumb.... What's the diff between an Agent and a trader?

Hey gang.  I'm about to submit a special app, for the first time in years.  Any advice for me?  Also, can someone point me to the official guildelines/staff-suggestions for special apps, just so that I can make sure that I'm ISO-9001 compliant?

When sending a special application, make sure to answer every question asked, in as much detail as you can.  In the background information section, what I do is give all the background information that would go into a normal application when you would input it through the MUD interface.  Height/weight (general descriptors, not actual numbers), age range, name and any nicknames/keywords, bio entry 1 AND additional background information... more information on why your character is the way s/he is that wouldn't go into the initial bio entry as well as future plans for the character, both IC ones and OOC ones.  Like if you plan for the HG you applied for to start his own mercenary company, say so.

I've only done one special app.

It took a month to set up...

...and died in a week.

:-\


(I did have a blast during that one week, though.)

So far as I know, I'm still at 2. Been playing for 3 years. Only played one leader, though, so that might have something to do with it. I got my first 2 karma within the first year. My first karma at my 1 month mark, actually.

It's easy to get 2, so far as I can tell. It's much harder to get past that. I don't really mind too much, because I spec app everything I want to play that I can't normally--and get accepted. Not to jinx myself, but I figure I'm due for summore after this current role.

In my experience, it's pretty much about what the staff see, your attitude, honesty, and how much karma you already have. I didn't receive one karma for my longest-lived, best-played (by me, in my opinion) PC... but then again, I wasn't a leader PC and I had already received four karma. I was just under the radar, and when I wasn't, I wasn't exactly proving anything different about my general level of responsibility and trustworthiness.

I've never had my review flag on, and I've never wrote in for a karma review, but I don't think those things hurt. However, I've always been in good contact with the staff with whatever character I'm running, and if you're doing something like a sponsored role... well, you're kind of in their face.

Quote from: Marauder Moe on August 08, 2010, 12:56:40 PM
I've only done one special app.

It took a month to set up...

...and died in a week.

:-\


(I did have a blast during that one week, though.)

I've submitted 3 apps.

the first took 8 days and s/he died in 4 or 5 hours

the second took 3 weeks and s/he died in 2 hours

the third took 8 days as well and s/he lasted 13 ooc days. not play time.

aack.

Quote from: Jengal on August 08, 2010, 06:47:00 PM
I've submitted 3 apps.

the first took 8 days and s/he died in 4 or 5 hours

the second took 3 weeks and s/he died in 2 hours

the third took 8 days as well and s/he lasted 13 ooc days. not play time.

aack.

All my special apps are cursed too. :'(

Quote from: jriley on August 08, 2010, 11:29:31 AM

Quote from: Fredd on August 06, 2010, 09:02:47 PM
all the special apps come out when I have a pc that's doing fun things, or involved in fun plots. Le sigh..... One day I shall app a templar or family member.

but... and this is dumb.... What's the diff between an Agent and a trader?

Hey gang.  I'm about to submit a special app, for the first time in years.  Any advice for me?  Also, can someone point me to the official guildelines/staff-suggestions for special apps, just so that I can make sure that I'm ISO-9001 compliant?

Just follow the instructions. The part about the background, just put in a 3-4 sentence abstract on what the role will be. I don't think they want too much detail there. I suspect they skim and deny a lot based on quotas.

I've been playing this game on and off for 10 years or so and I have only played mundanes except a d-elf before I lost that karma.
I really would like to play some other roles and I am curious as to my karma (probably -3) but I'll wait til my character dies I guess.
I just hope in the (technically) three RL years its been alive some staff noticed some positive along with the negative hoping for a little more positive. Maybe a HG. (And it will crack jokes :P. -1 Karma)

I got my initial Karma through the old "Karma Loophole". Which is funny, because I didn't realize it was actually Karma until some years after when I had my account notes. Not sure how it works now, but in the past, when you'd Special App a character, you'd retain the Special Apped options, unless you did something stupid that warranted removal. So one of my first special-apps was a D-Elf, and then the next was a Rukkian, etc.

So after a few years of Special Apps, I had accumulated enough race/class options from different tiers of Karma, and then when others were added I was happily suprised. Later learning that it was Karma through this note in my account notes:
"Set karma to 3, to match options -  4/26/03."

The other way I remember getting Karma was through "account note reviews" done by either Sanvean or Savak (since it seemed at the time that other people were scared/intimidated to award Karma without their consent).
I think that this trend is not as common anymore, but I don't know.

Quote from: Zoltan on August 08, 2010, 04:29:13 PM
In my experience, it's pretty much about what the staff see, your attitude, honesty, and how much karma you already have. I didn't receive one karma for my longest-lived, best-played (by me, in my opinion) PC... but then again, I wasn't a leader PC and I had already received four karma. I was just under the radar, and when I wasn't, I wasn't exactly proving anything different about my general level of responsibility and trustworthiness.

I've never had my review flag on, and I've never wrote in for a karma review, but I don't think those things hurt. However, I've always been in good contact with the staff with whatever character I'm running, and if you're doing something like a sponsored role... well, you're kind of in their face.

I have a similar experience to Zoltan - I believe most (with the exception of one point that I know for certain wasn't) of my karma was earned by playing leadership positions.  I think part of the reason for this is that staff more actively watch leaders to ensure they're doing their jobs properly, and since you're in a more visible position in-game, perhaps other imms that aren't your own might also notice you.  Unlike Zoltan though, I have never been a regular reporter in the past, but I agree, I'm sure it can't hurt in addition to any other communication methods you have with the staff.  I've also never turned on the review flag either - for the longest time I didn't even know it existed.

I got a karma point for my uber-weak, angsty, and jealous d-elf yelling with the fury of a thousand suns atop a really, really high cliff. ;D

I think the two main things staff look for when handing out karma are: whether you're trustworthy and responsible with power over other players, and whether you can play a realistic, flawed character while portraying their honest emotions.

LONG LIVE THE ZOMBIE THREADS.

As far as my puncations I do much better in game, as far as the gdb i don't care about punctation on here. I get my point across and thats all that matters. To avoid puncation mistakes IG when i speak i only use lines that are one sentence long. I'm bad about run on sentences and i SUCK in english Thanks for all the advice guys.

To those that didn't want this thread to come back alive, I THINK IT WAS NEEDED there are a lot of new players that still don't understand the karma thing from what i read and what i udnerstand

Quote from: Rhyden on August 09, 2010, 07:30:18 PM
I got a karma point for my uber-weak, angsty, and jealous d-elf yelling with the fury of a thousand suns atop a really, really high cliff. ;D

I think the two main things staff look for when handing out karma are: whether you're trustworthy and responsible with power over other players, and whether you can play a realistic, flawed character while portraying their honest emotions.

So, what, if I play an angsty character I'll get karma points?

i should have like eight karma by now or something.

emote Sticks his tongue out towards ~synthesis
Yea i just figured out the review flag the other day by reading this so maybe it will help, some folks out like me to get noticed as well.

Quote from: MeTekillot on August 09, 2010, 08:51:10 PM
So, what, if I play an angsty character I'll get karma points?
i should have like eight karma by now or something.

I play the most cheerful characters like, ever, and I have like a gazillion karmaz.

Quote from: Rhyden on August 09, 2010, 07:30:18 PM

I think the two main things staff look for when handing out karma are: whether you're trustworthy and responsible with power over other players, and whether you can play a realistic, flawed character while portraying their honest emotions.

From my experience, Rhyden's suggestions are bang on, man. 

On top of Rhyden's advice: play for others.  Now, before you get the wrong idea, let me explain...  I am not talking about limiting your own enjoyment. I think we should play for ourselves first, but some of my greatest and most enjoyable interactions have taken place when I've allowed others to manipulate or (physically, mentally, or emotionally) overpower my PCs.  In my time playing, I've allowed others to do just that because I've created characters that are flawed and realistic enough for it to happen... and in the end, I guess it really -has- been all for myself... I've loved some of my weakest/malleable/pathetic PCs the most.  Relish the moments where your RP - the RP that you enjoyed, because it was TRUE to your flawed character - has allowed someone else to take the limelight.  If you haven't done it already, I suggest giving it a go!

To link this back to Rhyden's post, I think that "playing for others," at times, allows you to do just what he has suggested.

Here's a story for inspiration. I've had 40 PC's over those 40 PC's I've acquired two Karma, and special apped as far up as an elkrosian. As of recently, I had both of those docked, then one put back. And I am sitting easy on one.  My observation? Karma is for newbs.

Quote from: FightClub on August 10, 2010, 12:53:13 AM
Karma is for newbs.

Word.

Jo and Rhyden's points are very good advice. If you play a really good Byn Sergeant, for example, you will get a flood of kudos and a few karma points. A role like that can really enhance the game for others, especially if they're a well-rounded character. The other end of the scale is if you play a kind of self-indulgent, play to win role you're very likely to be missed out karma and kudos wise. Roles like this are fine, but you won't get anywhere unless you start adding to the game in a selfless kind of fashion (of course you can do this with a well played selfish arse of a PC, which is different from a play to win style selfish arse PC).

But most importantly, if you have no seriously bad account notes you will most likely get a point of karma if you send in a request (especially if you have been playing around a year).

Sending reports in if you are an independant.

I beleave if I had done this with my Magicker i would have gotten 2 karma so i could keep playing Rukkians. But none of them knew what I was doing. Which was helping new players that didnt want to join the Byn become self sufficiant. Across several months I helped like... 5.

and keep in mind, karma can be taken away, so use it wisely.

Quote from: Is Friday on August 08, 2010, 03:36:21 PM
So far as I know, I'm still at 2. Been playing for 3 years. Only played one leader, though, so that might have something to do with it. I got my first 2 karma within the first year. My first karma at my 1 month mark, actually.

It's easy to get 2, so far as I can tell. It's much harder to get past that. I don't really mind too much, because I spec app everything I want to play that I can't normally--and get accepted. Not to jinx myself, but I figure I'm due for summore after this current role.

I just hit my #3 karma mark.

(You noobs better be prepared to be HG subdue/killed.)

For the most part I believe I was granted this karma point in particular for a variety of reasons:

1.) I updated staff regularly at the end of the week. I would review my logs day-to-day and outline the major happenings of each logged session. If something warranted more attention and a lot of things happened, I would clean up a log and submit it to them with my report. Sometimes this would tack on 2-3 hours to my report, sometimes only 20-30 minutes. I was playing a leader, though--so that was an expected commitment. (It pretty much ruined my Saturday mornings, though.)

2.) I asked staff pertinent questions every time I had one. I frequently questioned what "normal" behavior might be for someone of my character's background. I think a lot of people come into roles such as GMH, nobility, or combat-clan officer with a pre-meditated mindset. This is what creates most leadership failures, in my opinion. You'll have some young GMH walk onto the set and think they're the most awesome thing since sandwiches--when in the scheme of things, they are yet another randomtrader. That is not to change how people want to play their character, for sure--just be aware of the social and political implications of acting more important than you are. It's critical to understand your character's social position. Also, it's important to understand what your character can do if their social position is challenged or subverted--you can't in most cases throw a temper-tantrum and order some guards to murder some guy in a bar.

3.) I did what the staff wanted. When you're playing a leader, you have to follow "orders". For the most part, staff give players as much leeway as possible without breaking the environment's social norm unless there is intended counter-culture or something of that sort. If you want to break social norms, you have to take steps to do so on a regular basis--all the while updating staff on reasonings and whatever else. With that being said, the staff have the power to shut you down at any given point. In my experience, staff want to create a fun environment and keep the social atmosphere realistically conservative. (I believe this is due to more IC reasons than OOC.)

4.) I put a lot of creativity into making my character fun to watch. Nobody likes a boring PC. That doesn't really mean a very socially loud, emote-heavy PC. Additionally: consistency. If you're playing a spoiled, high-class noble--you can't all of a sudden change that persona without reason. Flesh out your personality, work on creating inner-dialogue/reasons to actions, and set for yourself attainable goals that you believe would increase the fun of the clan.

5.) When I broke organization/city rules, I let the staff know.

6.) I didn't succeed 100% of the time, but I tried to be polite and professional when dealing with staff.

Play your character as realistically as possible, even to the detriment of your character.

Involve many organizations in projects as they apply.

Play during peak hours, or play at similar playtimes to develop relationships and plots.

Quote from: Reiloth on August 22, 2010, 08:16:59 PM
Play your character as realistically as possible, even especially to the detriment of your character.

Involve many organizations in projects as they apply.

Play during peak hours, or play at similar playtimes to develop relationships and plots.

Quote from: Malifaxis on August 23, 2010, 11:37:36 AM

Quote from: Reiloth on August 22, 2010, 08:16:59 PM
Play your character as realistically as possible, even especially to the detriment of your character.

Involve many organizations in projects as they apply.

Play during peak hours, or play at similar playtimes to develop relationships and plots.

The secret of good writing is to create characters you love and put them through hell. Typically the more flawed the better, because it's all the more endearing and fucked up when a persons own flaws are their undoing.

I saw a time in the game where, I honestly felt too many people had Karma. Which is akward because i used to always complain about not having my own. You couldn't leave an outpost or city gate without getting raped or accosted by some form of magick, or psionicist, or dark power. And I love mundanes. I love just straight up playing average guys trying to do things with their own hands, no magick or big wigs behind them.

And so, it was irritating walking into a room where a whiran had invis cast on all five of his twinked out mage friends, and they just roasted people. I actualyl remember griping about it on the GDB.

ANYWAYS... I still don't have a lot of karma, but i'm glad in a way, because I probably would have fallen into a twink category. Now days its fun to flesh out someone, give them flaws, and jsut really get into the roll. If you are feeling you NEED karma to enjoy the game, something is wrong. Just my own opinion.

I've never played one, but I'd imagine there's nothing stopping you from fleshing out and giving karma characters flaws.  :P

Quote from: HavokBlue on August 31, 2010, 09:14:28 PM
I've never played one, but I'd imagine there's nothing stopping you from fleshing out and giving karma characters flaws.  :P

Think this is just one of those "gotta learn to crawl before you can walk" things.  ;)

I was referring to the fact that Aruven seemed to (to me) imply that people that take advantage of their karma only create flawless twink characters, which I am sure is not the case.

Quote from: HavokBlue on September 01, 2010, 10:01:20 PM
I was referring to the fact that Aruven seemed to (to me) imply that people that take advantage of their karma only create flawless twink characters, which I am sure is not the case.

Ah, no. The point was you don't need Karma to enjoy the game. Just giving a supporting fact to why I see no issues with Karma being rare. I know very good players who I can only imagine have high karma, that I have interacted with and am glad of it. I have also seen the opposite spectrum. Sadly, not everyone that plays this game likes to play by the rules.

You know what, Aruven? Maybe if you didn't log on, only to OOC that your RL Lieutenant is trying to crawl down your throat, or that you are currently being bombarded by a carpet bomb attack, you would get karma.


Pretty sure I sent at least one kudos to you though. If I didn't... uh. KUDOS.

Quote from: Riev on September 02, 2010, 01:18:14 AM
You know what, Aruven? Maybe if you didn't log on, only to OOC that your RL Lieutenant is trying to crawl down your throat, or that you are currently being bombarded by a carpet bomb attack, you would get karma.


Pretty sure I sent at least one kudos to you though. If I didn't... uh. KUDOS.

Is sorry.

The carpet bomb was in Korea  :-\

It provided me with a lot of OOC chuckles, man, so no worries.


On topic though, I think I finally got Half Giant Karma... and I can't imagine me playing a single damn one.

Quote from: Riev on September 02, 2010, 02:19:08 AM
It provided me with a lot of OOC chuckles, man, so no worries.


On topic though, I think I finally got Half Giant Karma... and I can't imagine me playing a single damn one.

Same here. D:

I got it a few months back.... Tried to play a couple of HGs-- just couldn't get into it. vwv

Same with any magickers. x-X

I highly suggest that anyone playing a magicker for the first time plays around other magickers.  There is, obviously, more than one way to do so.  Still, the easiest, generally, is to play a gemmer that doesn't understand much so that they can find other gemmers to interact with on a regular basis... make friends with those gemmers, so you can get a better feel for what being a magicker can do to someone and how you can incorporate such sorts of things into the roleplay of your magicker.

This goes for people that aren't playing their first magickers as well, if you've had difficulty in the past.  There are, often enough, a few good people playing gemmers that can help you to understand the shift in philosophy/tactics that a magicker character has to understand to be able to operate well, all the while having good things to teach to people about how to roleplay a magicker in a way that is rewarding both in material fashion by getting your character a comfortable existence and in a more ephemeral way by helping you to understand your character better and possibly get into the roleplay of that character better.

I wish I could say that I'd be happy to mentor any young gemmers and help people get into and , but I'm currently unable to do so.  :P

Quote from: Marshmellow on September 02, 2010, 06:31:15 AM
I highly suggest that anyone playing a magicker for the first time plays around other magickers.

This is good advice. Do not play a solo magicker please. Immerse yourself in the culture and learn from (hopefully) other magickers who are good leaders and can help show you the ropes.

Quote from: Marshmellow on September 02, 2010, 06:31:15 AM
I wish I could say that I'd be happy to mentor any young gemmers and help people get into and , but I'm currently unable to do so.  :P

There are currently tribes as well that accept magick, both human and elven in nature. I believe that a couple, if not a few of these, currently have solid leadership in regards to magick, as well as differing interpretations of its effects on the world.

Quote from: Kiara on September 02, 2010, 07:06:45 AM
This is good advice. Do not play a solo magicker please. Immerse yourself in the culture and learn from (hopefully) other magickers who are good leaders and can help show you the ropes.

And this has probably been said already, but unless you're already a hardcore solo roleplayer, you will find solo magicking extremely tedious.  I've stored several of the critters.  It really helps to have some kind of outside interest while you're grinding out those first 100 hours of solitary practice.

Different strokes for different folks.

I'd play a rogue mage without giving it a second thought. A clanned mage I'd have to think about. And I would not play a mage at all with the intention of getting the gem.

Quote from: Lizzie on September 02, 2010, 10:26:16 AMDifferent strokes for different folks.

I'd play a rogue mage without giving it a second thought. A clanned mage I'd have to think about. And I would not play a mage at all with the intention of getting the gem.

You've played mages before, Lizzie?  If you notice, my last post and the following were talking to people that have not had any luck getting into the role or for people that are playing their first magicker, not someone that has already comfortable with the role.  After that, to each their own.

My general recommendation would be that anyone's first stab at a mage should be played gemmed, within the Quarter, in Allanak, and attempting to get hired by House Oash. If it's a special-apped mage PC, then this goes extra, because otherwise I forsee a quick and very unsatisfactory death for the mage--and that just sucks for the player who put time and effort and hope into the app.

Similarly, my general recommendation to ARM newbies would be that they play a human warrior (or ranger) in Allanak (or Tuluk) and join a busy military or hunting clan immediately (Byn especially), then follow the rules of said clan.

In both cases, it's not about restricting the player, it's about providing the most fruitful possible first look at things, with the best chance for interaction, developing relationships, and getting into plots.

However, players are free to do as they wish in both cases.

What 'mellow said.

Quote from: Lizzie on September 02, 2010, 10:26:16 AM
Different strokes for different folks.

I'd play a rogue mage without giving it a second thought. A clanned mage I'd have to think about. And I would not play a mage at all with the intention of getting the gem.

Being gemmed isn't a sentence to do nothing but spam-cast and hang out with gossiping do-nothings, you know.  It's Allanak:  the templars and nobles love bloodbaths, and they love badasses.  My last Oashi gemmer roamed around pwning n00bz and nobody in Allanak gave a damn, as long as I wasn't zorching GMH clannies, and as long as I was passing the phat lewtz on to the dudes in charge.

Most I have played have been solo rogues 'gickers and were extremely easy to get into. Of course they died pretty quickly.

My number one piece of advice for picking a mage concept is to pick something that will be fun without magick. Don't go into thinking 'okay, I'm going to play a badass Rukkian.' Use the elementalism to enhance your character and flavor it rather than defining what its going to be.

Yes, I have played mages, Marshmellow. I've played several. My first one was a gemmer. And it is because of my experience, when I did exactly what you are recommending, that I posted my opinion.

As someone who did exactly what you recommend, I say, different strokes for different folks, and doing what you recommend might be the totally wrong thing for someone to do, while it'd be perfect for someone else.

I played other mages *despite* my experience playing a gemmed, not because of it. My first experience playing a mage, as a gemmed, was so unpleasant that it convinced me to have my PC really piss people off and get herself assassinated, because I didn't want to get a bad note on my account for walking off the shield wall. That's how much I hated playing a gemmed mage, and how much it turned me off from the idea of being gemmed or becoming gemmed. I didn't learn anything ABOUT magicks, being a gemmed mage. I learned the very limited amount that I learned from the OOC docs. For me, playing a gemmed was a total and complete waste of time and effort, and I would've learned more about magicks, the dynamics of magick RP in the game world, and been able to better flesh out the concept of my character's background, if I hadn't taken the gem at all.

I've experienced playing a mage with a gem since that first time too, and if my character hadn't gone the way she had gone as quickly as she did, I would've stored her.

To be fair, being gemmed used to be far more fun right after the CAM started, but before they devolved into power rangers.

This was when the end-plot was in full swing, and several of the characters set many things into motion, playing central rolls in various plots.

I don't know what the situation is like now, but maybe it's time a player tried starting something up on their own down there, and formed a group of some kind.

Quote from: Kiara on September 05, 2010, 09:33:12 AM
To be fair, being gemmed used to be far more fun right after the CAM started, but before they devolved into power rangers.

This was when the end-plot was in full swing, and several of the characters set many things into motion, playing central rolls in various plots.

I don't know what the situation is like now, but maybe it's time a player tried starting something up on their own down there, and formed a group of some kind.

Organized rogue groups are often attempted. Some of them do great til they fall apart, heh.  It'd be great to see some of them succeed big-time within the geographical boundaries of Allanak. Some kind of serious world-changing shit.

Well, Lizzie, I'm sorry that you had a bad experience as a gemmed.  Did you do as Talia also recommended and went Oash?  Perhaps the other players of other gemmed at that time didn't contain any someones like I suggested are usually around.  Going Oash, at least those gemmed have tasks set before them that aren't just about being a power ranger task force but about exploring the magick side of the world.  It's doing things like this that you really learn what's really going on.  You can do it on your own, but having others that know things too around makes it a much easier, and often enough enjoyable experience.  Anyway, as a gemmed, you have some things you needn't worry about, like a place to live, so you can focus on what it means to be a magicker while also trying to be something else.  As suggested, don't play a magicker, play a person that is a magicker.  So learning how to do this, it makes it easier when, down the road, to play a magicker that isn't a magicker first, that is a person that has goals and alternate skills (from the subguild), and you use the all of this to play a character that you understand better than your first magicker.  That's the point.  Sure, maybe you won't enjoy the role as much as you'd hope, but you still learn.  I'm not saying the role is for everyone, as you seem to think.  Even if it isn't the right role for you, though, playing one or two before playing another magicker is still recommended because it gives you, the player, better ability to learn what is going on when it comes to magick and gives you the opportunity to make better magickers down the road.  If people don't learn, often enough they just go through a slew of rogues that don't ever get anywhere and then they give up and never play a magicker again because they never understood how to play one.

Anyway, there are some great magicker players out there, ones that put a lot of thought into the magick their characters do, and I've seen them come through the Gemmer's Quarter often enough.  No matter whether you will like the role or not, playing a gemmer for your first magicker, I still recommend it.

No, my character was not Oash material, and wouldn't have been able to join Oash even if she wanted to. Also, "going Oash" is only an option if there is an active Oashi noble to bring you on board and other Oash mages to interact with. When the pickins of clan life are slim for a gemmed, they're even more slim than any other clan because that gem limits your options just by virtue of its presence around your neck.

To continue the derail, my first magicker was a sekret 'gicker who I loved and who was very interesting and dynamic to play, but who unfortunately died.  My second magicker was a gemmed magicker who was so boring I ended up storing her (after trying to get someone in House Oash to pick them up as a last ditch attempt at having ANY interaction at all).  They lasted about the same RL time and same days played.  I found that being a gemmed mage actually drastically reduced my chances for interaction, and provided no opportunity to learn anything more about magicks than what I could pick up in the helpfile.  In other words, my experience seems to have been much like Lizzie's.

Ultimately, you should probably be playing whatever you think will be most enjoyable to you at the time.  But the way I view it, if you're not enjoying your rogue mage, you can probably successfully get gemmed and see if that works for you (background and other factors willing).  If you aren't enjoying your gemmed mage, you're more likely than not shit out of luck.

I'll not do another gemmer myself,

Course my worst gemmed experiance was in Oash.

Staff does not like when you talk bad about clans, So I won't, but I don't agree with anybody, including Talia saying that as a first mage you should go gemmed and Oash, My bet is that the suggestion would not fit at least 50% of the players.

If we're being honest, and let's, let's be honest, a clan is only as good as the players in it at any given time. So, in addition to every other factor, you need to factor in, that. What is the pc leadership in Oash like when you're playing a gemmed? Who are the other minions? I bet that completely changes the equation, and would explain the wide variance of experiences.

I wouldn't be surprised if House Oash has a bit of a reputation for brutality toward its mages. It's been more than a year; there were public notices (tavern boards) of one mage being whipped on the balcony of the second floor Red's until her blood "rained down" onto the crowds and street, and another instance of a pregnant mage having her abdomen stomped by an Oashi noble until she miscarried, to get rid of the "abomination", also with public notice.

After that, I always thought it was a wonder that any gemmed mages would seek to join Oash at all. It seems that the player base forgets more quickly than the mage community really would.

Quote from: Salt Merchant on September 06, 2010, 02:06:02 AM
After that, I always thought it was a wonder that any gemmed mages would seek to join Oash at all. It seems that the player base forgets more quickly than the mage community really would.

An abomination with a little status is better than just a plain old abomination any day.

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 06, 2010, 02:08:11 AM

Quote from: Salt Merchant on September 06, 2010, 02:06:02 AM
After that, I always thought it was a wonder that any gemmed mages would seek to join Oash at all. It seems that the player base forgets more quickly than the mage community really would.

An abomination with a little status is better than just a plain old abomination any day.

Think about it, though.  Why would you, as a gemmed, want to give someone that sort of life-and-death authority over yourself, at least without knowing them very well first?

Quote from: Salt Merchant on September 06, 2010, 02:09:22 AM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 06, 2010, 02:08:11 AM

Quote from: Salt Merchant on September 06, 2010, 02:06:02 AM
After that, I always thought it was a wonder that any gemmed mages would seek to join Oash at all. It seems that the player base forgets more quickly than the mage community really would.

An abomination with a little status is better than just a plain old abomination any day.

Think about it, though.  Why would you, as a gemmed, want to give someone that sort of life-and-death authority over yourself, at least without knowing them very well first?

Well, think about it this way.... Oash is a big Noble House.... -NOBLE- house. Nobility.... Nobles.

I'm pretty sure many abominatio-- erm.... "Gemmed" would turn a blind eye to the abuse for even the slightest chance to rub elbows with the big-wigs of the city.

Hell, I'm sure -any- commoner would take a twelve savage beatings a day for the rest of their miserable commoner lives, for the chance to wear a noble house's colors.

You've gotta keep in mind.... We're talking about Allanak.

This place is reeking of death, there's a famine, kids are starving in the streets, and vile 'Rinthi rats come out at night to wreak havoc among the populace....

Most gemmed, when it comes to getting work, have two choices.... Live out their lives as a common, average, filthy commoner scumbag abomination....

Or! Join a goddamn -noble- house. Something many average vile commoners will never have the opportunity to do.

I know what I'd choose if Zalanthas were reality and were a gemmed mage.

::EDIT::

Also.... About those board posts-- I don't think it's the best idea to take things like that at face value.

I'd imagine many gemmed would believe that gemmer who got the piss whipped right out of him probably did something to deserve it.

Or that forced miscarriage? Who knows, maybe that was the noble's illegitimate child and he wanted absolutely nothing to do with it.

Y'never know.

Maybe she did something to deserve it also.

Quote from: Salt Merchant on September 06, 2010, 02:09:22 AM
Think about it, though.  Why would you, as a gemmed, want to give someone that sort of life-and-death authority over yourself, at least without knowing them very well first?

To be fair, gemmed do not have a choice about this in the first place. There are others more powerful in some cases than even nobles that hold life-and-death authority over mages. That would be the templarate.

Pick your poison.

Sure, you're going to be oppressed. That's the name of the game - mages are hated, loathed and feared, not loved and respected.

That being said, stick through it and I guarantee you will become privy to some awesome, awesome stuff.

This conversation has DRASTICALLY strayed form a player wanting to know how often one gets /should espect to get karma.  Please take the Gemmer/Oash hate to one of the 100+ topics specifically on the subject.

Actually I think it relates to the topic at hand. Players who have proven they can stick through the good/bad times in restrictive roles such as that of the gemmer often prove themselves to staff, thereby unlocking new options.

That part was fine, but it has since devolved into a, "I hate playing a gemmer/Oashi," rant.  That should end.

Quote from: Kiara on September 06, 2010, 03:37:49 AM

Quote from: Salt Merchant on September 06, 2010, 02:09:22 AM
Think about it, though.  Why would you, as a gemmed, want to give someone that sort of life-and-death authority over yourself, at least without knowing them very well first?

To be fair, gemmed do not have a choice about this in the first place. There are others more powerful in some cases than even nobles that hold life-and-death authority over mages. That would be the templarate.

The difference is that, while the templarate can be mostly avoided, an employer with your name cannot.

Quote from: Marshmellow"I hate playing a gemmer/Oashi," rant.

And no, it's not a "hate/rant". Irritating when people try to label any criticism at all or even simple discussion that way. Maybe you're feeling defensive about something you did?

It's why I don't think it's all that IC for a gemmed mage to actively seek employment with House Oash. Nor would I say House Oash is an answer to getting karma, except perhaps for the noble's player.

Quote from: Salt Merchant on September 06, 2010, 02:21:01 PM

Quote from: Kiara on September 06, 2010, 03:37:49 AM

Quote from: Salt Merchant on September 06, 2010, 02:09:22 AM
Think about it, though.  Why would you, as a gemmed, want to give someone that sort of life-and-death authority over yourself, at least without knowing them very well first?

To be fair, gemmed do not have a choice about this in the first place. There are others more powerful in some cases than even nobles that hold life-and-death authority over mages. That would be the templarate.

The difference is that, while the templarate can be mostly avoided, an employer with your name cannot.

Quote"I hate playing a gemmer/Oashi," rant.

And no, it's not a "hate/rant". Irritating when people try to label any criticism at all or even simple discussion that way. Maybe you're feeling defensive about something you did?

It's why I don't think it's all that IC for a gemmed mage to actively seek employment with House Oash. Nor would I say House Oash is an answer to getting karma, except perhaps for the noble's player.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

For a myriad of reasons that cannot be discussed for fear of divulging IC details.

Quote from: Salt Merchant on September 06, 2010, 02:21:01 PM
It's why I don't think it's all that IC for a gemmed mage to actively seek employment with House Oash.

Go back and re-read my latest posts in this thread.... I've pretty much explained why it is IC for a gemmed mage to look to Oash for work.

I don't think that any sort of consenus is really going to be reached here. Not necessarily because either side is wrong, mind you, but simply seems to enjoy separate things from their own RP experience with/as magickers. I really am a firm believer that this is a case-by-case basis rather than blanketing the entire situation as black/white (or in this case join or hate Oash). I can't really find anything wrong with that, to be honest. Some people took their first character to the Byn and hated it, others enjoy it - some store and some get promoted. The beautiful thing about this game is that there's always a chance to try it all again, and take another route, make different decisions and get different results. While I think it's unfair to merely convince oneself of hating a particular Household, I would imagine there was an underlying experience which caused such. 

Dislike your leader? No social contact? Feel too confined? To my recollection, employment in House Oash isn't permenant unless one takes a life-oath. We have a lot of players, someone's bound to dislike the way another person leads - it's unfortunate, but the leaders aren't there to make your characters interesting for you, they are there to promote plots, whether you get involved or not is typically based on your actions. Felt like storing after a few weeks? Bring it up IC, just like any other character - develop conflict, get a friend, lover, enemy, whatever. Don't feel like it? Then store. Wait a while and try it again, your asshole leader can't live forever, and it's a big world. There's always another opportunity.

I'd also like to point out that just because someone -is- gemmed, doesn't mean they have to stay in Allanak. Granted it's a lot safer, but well .. some people don't like playing safe.

Great post, Decameron. This especially bears repeating

Quote from: Decameron on September 06, 2010, 11:24:33 PM
The beautiful thing about this game is that there's always a chance to try it all again, and take another route, make different decisions and get different results.

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 06, 2010, 10:29:25 PM

Quote from: Salt Merchant on September 06, 2010, 02:21:01 PM
It's why I don't think it's all that IC for a gemmed mage to actively seek employment with House Oash.

Go back and re-read my latest posts in this thread.... I've pretty much explained why it is IC for a gemmed mage to look to Oash for work.

No, you explained why you think it is IC.

Keep in mind that your opinions are not written in stone handed down by God.

I will allow that it might be IC for a masochistic PC or a naive PC to seek employment with House Oash, but, given what is public knowledge, in -my- opinion any gemmed PC with a sense of self preservation should have cause for grave thought.

Quote from: Salt Merchant on September 07, 2010, 01:07:43 AM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 06, 2010, 10:29:25 PM

Quote from: Salt Merchant on September 06, 2010, 02:21:01 PM
It's why I don't think it's all that IC for a gemmed mage to actively seek employment with House Oash.

Go back and re-read my latest posts in this thread.... I've pretty much explained why it is IC for a gemmed mage to look to Oash for work.

No, you explained why you think it is IC.

Keep in mind that your opinions are not written in stone handed down by God.

I will allow that it might be IC for a masochistic PC or a naive PC to seek employment with House Oash, but, given what is public knowledge, in -my- opinion any gemmed PC with a sense of self preservation should have cause for grave thought.

Please stop with the IC spoilers. What you're talking about isn't obvious, isn't news on the IC message boards, isn't commonly spoken about, and it's pretty presumptuous for you to assume that everybody knows about it and anyone who plays contrary to that knowledge is somehow not acting IC. Most newer players who are just getting their first magicker karma (I thought this was the topic of this thread) have no clue what you're talking about, and probably shouldn't until they run into someone IG that has the inside scoop and wants to pass it on.

The only common knowledge here really is that Oash is a noble house that hires gemmed humans.

Quote from: Salt Merchant on September 07, 2010, 01:07:43 AM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 06, 2010, 10:29:25 PM

Quote from: Salt Merchant on September 06, 2010, 02:21:01 PM
It's why I don't think it's all that IC for a gemmed mage to actively seek employment with House Oash.

Go back and re-read my latest posts in this thread.... I've pretty much explained why it is IC for a gemmed mage to look to Oash for work.

I will allow that it might be IC for a masochistic PC or a naive PC to seek employment with House Oash, but, given what is public knowledge, in -my- opinion any gemmed PC with a sense of self preservation should have cause for grave thought.

If Allanak was the home of the free, land of the brave.... Sure.

But think about it.

Damn near any clan you join has that sort of power over your PC.... Your byn sergeant having a bad day, he may whip you half to death on a whim. Templar looking for a scapegoat? Sucks for you if you're the first militia PC he sees.

Hell, if every PC paused and thought, "Wait.... I could get hurt or killed here." before joining anything, every clan in the game would be empty.

Methinks you should dial back how important your average PC commoner should think he/she is a notch or two.

Man, I'm on staff and I don't even know about these ultra-compelling IC reasons not to join Oash as a gemmer. And I've played in Allanak a lot, in a lot of different roles over my years of play.

It's totally OK for a player to choose what s/he wants to do with their PC, within the bounds of the documentation.

And I think the continued back-and-forth about whether or not players should/could/would choose to play Oashi gemmed is unnecessary. It's an option, and it may or may not be a good one for any particular player at a particular time. To those who've never tried it, I'd encourage a try--because even a failed attempt can help expand our personal skills, view of roleplaying in ARM, and knowledge of the game world.

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 07, 2010, 01:29:30 AM
Methinks you should dial back how important your average PC commoner should think he/she is a notch or two.

So fucking seriously.

Quote from: Talia on September 07, 2010, 01:50:58 AM
Even a failed attempt can help expand our personal skills, view of roleplaying in ARM, and knowledge of the game world.

And MAYBE, just MAYBE, you can have fun doing it.

There's nothing wrong with failing. You don't have win Armageddon with every character.

Well said Talia.

Yeah I remember seeing templars flay their men with whips for screwing up way back in the day.

Now, I was staying away again, but then the staff push on a clan happened again.

This is the point I mostly do NOT agree with. Talia, state that there is an option, leave it at that.

First off, as with any clan or PC, you should NOT make a PC with the intent to join a certain clan.

you SHOULD do IC and OOC research on the matter before deciding.


Also, remember, you can only play in Oash if you are playing a HUMAN gemmer. Maybe there is a reason for that that would affect your enjoyment, maybe not.

And lastly, remember that playing an Oash mage is VERY much a niche role.

As to the one pointing out that a clan is only as good as the leadership. When I played in the clan, I think it had the best leadership I've seen in that house before and since. It is still not something I will repeat and I wish I'd never done it to begin with.

I think you don't get where I am fundamentally coming from here, X-D, which is that I think all players should try all roles at least once, or as many as they can personally stand to try.* There is often a sentiment on these forums of attempting to convince other players not to play <role>; this could be emo breeds or stoic dwarves or dumb half-giants or gypsies or bards or Tulukis or Allanakis or desert elves or high-karma roles or apped leadership or etc etc etc. I find it at best silly (because different strokes for different folks), and at worst destructive to the game (because it feeds into an ongoing cycle of negativity and player- or staff-bashing).

I have my personal preferences about how I like to play and what roles I'm really good at playing, just like every other player has his/her own talents and leanings. But, how do we discover these things? Not by playing the same role over and over again, rather by trying different things until we figure it out. And even then, trying new and challenging things is good for us as players. (Oh, the awesome roles I would never have tried if I'd listened to the negativity of the GDB.)

It all comes down to letting people play what they want to play. I'm not pushing any clan; I have absolutely no investment in whether anyone does or does not play anywhere in particular or any role in particular. But really, it's not like anyone has ever died in real life because they tried playing an Oashi gemmer, so all the furor over the suggestion is a little over-the-top.

* That, I think, probably does relate to karma a little bit. If a player never branches out into new and difficult things, it's hard to accrue trust toward the more challenging, more restrictive roles in the game.

Random replies:

I don't think it's a terrible sin to create a character with the intent to join a specific clan, or with any other OOCly-engineered goals.

Just because something happens in a clan doesn't necessarily mean that it's clan policy, even if someone claims that it is.  Furthermore, clan policies can and do change.

Lastly, Oash rocks.  Black and azure forever!

Quote from: X-D on September 07, 2010, 10:51:06 AM
As to the one pointing out that a clan is only as good as the leadership. When I played in the clan, I think it had the best leadership I've seen in that house before and since. It is still not something I will repeat and I wish I'd never done it to begin with.

What did you dislike so much about it?

OOCly engineered goals aren't that bad, Moe.  You have some expectations for what your character will do after being approved and those are OOCly engineered goals too.  It's a matter of degree.  Some special applications are not approved without OOCly engineered goals, because you have to explain how your special application will impact the world and show how you believe it will be affecting the world in a good way.  Sticking to some of these OOCly engineered goals in the face of IC events, however, is less often a good thing.

X-D, I think you're taking this very wrong.  Neither Talia nor I told people that it's always fun in Oash and that everyone will like.  We think everyone should try it, being gemmed for their first magicker or going Oash with their first magicker.  Whether the person enjoys the role or not, if the player sticks with it long enough, the player will learn better what it is to play a magicker and thus can go on to other roles with more experience instead of hopping straight into a more difficult role to remain alive in, like a magicker living the undercover life in Tuluk.  If you get disappeared in 6 hours (or raptored, or bahameted, or desert elved, or scrabbed, whatever), how did you really learn much of anything about the magick code and the magickal side of the game?

I'm suggesting a role where it isn't too hard to stay alive so that people can learn to play the game.  It's just like telling someone to role up a ranger/warrior and to join the Byn with a first character.  Not everyone likes playing a Bynner, like me for example.  I'll never do it.  You'll never play a gemmer or an Oashi again?  That's your decision.  Stop telling everyone else not to do it, though, because they're different and might have an awesome time.

Honestly? I played the gemmed those posts were about. And I really enjoyed the RP of the incidents. However... when you restrict someone from speaking to other commoners and whip them publicly for their interactions with clan mates... I nearly stored.

Take it how you will. Gemmed roles, I'm not generally a big fan of. And I don't think I'll ever, ever play an Oash gemmed again. Not that it wasn't (at times) enjoyable, but I hated it. It wasn't my playstyle at all. Then again, I heartily recommend people go rogue for their first mage, every bit as much as gemmed.

I may be wierd, but I would not have kept playing Arm if my first pc had been a warrior or ranger, and especially not if I'd have joined the Byn. While those are all great things, it's simply not what's enjoyable for me.

And I have an itchy feeling that a good chunk of the people who think it'd be so fun to play a gemmed... have not in a LONG time.

Gotta agree with Amanda on this one. I've played more mages than not, and at this point in time, it's very unlikely that I'd go Gemmed again. Not only does it separate you socially from the other PCs in Allanak, it's now treated as an unhideable target outside of the walls. There is no payoff for accepting the restriction, save for the ability to practice in a temple. Truthfully, the last genuinely successful, enjoyable Gemmed I had was during the Council era.

Not long ago, I did have an Oash PC, and it did not work for me at all. I'd like to see more options for people who choose to go Gemmed, because one size definitely doesn't fit all.

Marsh, I never told anyone not to play anything, in fact, I said that playing a first mage as a gemmer is a good idea.

My only problem with anything in the thread was people pushing a clan, being gemmed is not a clan. I took special notice when it was a staffer pushing the clan. Something I don't think staffers should do. A staffers post carries extra weight with many players and I think in the end it is hurtful for them to push a clan. A player can very easily follow that push, then if they hate the clan, they will focus on the fact that a staffer pushed it on them.

And I do not agree with anybody who thinks all roles should be tried, no matter if they are fun or not, that is just plain silly to knowingly put yourself into a role you know or think you will not enjoy, it is a game, and one played for enjoyment.

Old Kank, you know I cannot say what I did not like about a clan on the GDB. No matter what I say on the matter it would be considered badmouthing a clan and is at the very least frowned upon on the GDB. Also, to clarify what anybody else might think. I don't think Oash is a bad clan in any way. I DO on the other had see it as a Niche role if you are playing a gemmed in Oash and something a majority of people might not like.

Moe, No it is not a sin to create a PC intended for a certain clan, but better advice is to leave it open enough that you can change your mind rather then being locked into joining that clan or your concept will not work.

Talia, Trying to explain things away after the fact does not work. The fact is, you stated in one post that you "Encurage people to try Oash", In another you said

QuoteMy general recommendation would be that anyone's first stab at a mage should be played gemmed, within the Quarter, in Allanak, and attempting to get hired by House Oash.

. The first post actually made it sound like a staff prefered route to take. The rest are still pushing a clan, you can write whatever you want on the matter and it is moot, you did, as a staffer, promote a clan on the GDB that you, a staffer think people should try.

Oh, and Marsh, far as I know, you are not on staff, if you wanna promote a clan as the end all be all best in the game, more power too you, I don't care, hell, I'm not even sure why you have been replying to any of my posts before this one since none of mine were aimed at you, only the idea of a staffer pushing a clan.

That statement wasn't me pushing a clan, it was me pushing clans. Clans generally are the best route for players to get into their roles and become involved in plots. The only clan that an openly-known elementalist can join is Oash. So, if a player is going to play gemmed in Allanak, in general I do believe they should look at trying out Oash, because Oash is the only clan they can join. And again, clans in general are the best vehicle for PC involvement, for a lot of reasons.

If there were more clans for openly-known elementalists to join, I'd just say "join a clan." But that's not the case, so it's, "join Oash."

Just like, if I'm advising someone new to ARM, I'm gonna say, "join <a clan that will have you, mostly the Byn>." This is not a bias toward any one clan, it's simply a bias toward clans.

But again, I do not have any personal investment in this, it's just advice for what I see as the routes of play that are most likely to be fruitful for most players. And if it doesn't work for a particular player, really, there's no harm done.

Then the wording should have been different. Which I posted on before.

Throwing Oash or the Byn or clans out as an option is great, But you said "Should" and "Encourage".

I do agree though that Clan play is the best play in arm.

Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on September 07, 2010, 02:00:16 AM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 07, 2010, 01:29:30 AM
Methinks you should dial back how important your average PC commoner should think he/she is a notch or two.

So fucking seriously.

::) It has nothing to do with importance, and everything to do with wanting to survive and keep some skin on one's back.

You people are confusing what you, the player wants (templar X is advertising for a new aide? oh boy!) with what a character likely would want (templar X's last aide was whipped and banished from the city, and the previous was executed; now she's advertising for another.. I think I'll pass).

To whomever claimed I'm spilling IC information: I have never had a character join or be in House Oash, nor have in-depth interactions with their employees. So it should be pretty apparent that what I know really is external perception and has been gathered solely from public sources such as the bulletin boards and tavern hearsay.

Never did I state that joining House Oash is a bad idea for purpose of having fun. Only that I believe it to be IC to perceive it to be a bad idea.

Trying to avoid the Powers and cozying up to them are both time-honored strategies.

I enjoyed playing my gemmers, even the one that OOCly wasn't meant to be gemmed. I never felt like I had to "muscle through" the role or anything like that. The characters around me made it extremely fun. That's what it comes down to for me. I'm an enormous Byn fanboy, but I have had un-fun experiences in the Byn. It wasn't the clan structure, or the role of Bynner #1375 that made it suck, it was other players (though even then it was far from unbearable).

I'll agree that the gemmed role may be a little more confining nowadays than what it once was, and the gem itself may or may not be nothing more than a big bulls-eye. I would still recommend it as a beginner's introduction to magick, but fuck it, do what you want. You can name any one role in the game and -someone- will hate on it. Validly, too. I've played rogue magicker roles before, enjoyed it for what it was, and then found it to not be as nuanced as my best play gemmed in the city. Still, I have rogue magicker concepts thought up, as well as gemmed concepts. They're about even on my scale.

Nyr presents:  Real players of genius.  (Real players of genius!)

Today, we salute you, Mr. (or Ms, or Mrs.) "I've-got-to-protect-the-playerbase-from-the-friendly-and-helpful-suggestions-of-staff" person.  (Mr. or Ms. or Mrs. Protector!!)

I would go farther with this parody, but I think the point is clear.  Don't dice semantics with staff that are trying to be helpful; it makes you look a lot less like you're trying to help players and a lot more like you're just giving staff the finger.

X-D, I don't feel like reading back, but I don't recall saying anything directly to you until I addressed you in my last post.  Whether I am on staff or not, though, I am not posting as staff.  The post I responded to just seemed like you were saying that since you had a bad experience in a clan, or because you have difficulty with life in a clan, that people shouldn't play magickers in a clan, specifically Oash, the only clan available to gemmers.  You were so violently opposed to it, in recounting your anecdote, that it appeared you were recommending that people not do what was recommended.  I think that's what people mentioned, the negativity.  Your anecdote, and Amanda's (which I won't mention further as I believe it contains too much IC information, like a couple others here), can do nothing but push people away from these clans.  How is that a good thing?

Violently? What posts were you reading anyway? My anecdote...did I give a personal example, no, I did not, the statement of having had a PC in the clan is less then anecdotal statement. No story was told, no account given.

So, Nyr,  What your saying is, Arguing with staff or simply pointing out questionable wording makes you look like your giving staff the finger?


That is mighty mature of you, and so was the wording of your post.  Kudos to you. [sarcasm]

BTW Semantics:  a. the study of meaning.

Maybe use a word you actually know the meaning of next time, Or maybe you really were saying I do not know the meanings of words used such as "Should" "Encouraged"?

But hey, we now know that any contrary opinion posted by a player against staff or desire of a player for a staffer to clarify a statement is tantamount to the bird in Nyrs book.

XD for president! Also, I liked Nyr's song. It makes me want to drink a beer.

Despite the two-sided tension, I think these kind of threads can still have their uses.

What's most important when dealing with a thread and issue like this is to look at it from a completely unbiased, and neutral angle. I'm trying my best to do that very thing, so bear with me here. One side is saying that playing an Oashi gemmed is not very enjoyable. One side is saying that clans are great for gemmers, especially new magickers, but Oash is apparently the only clan available.

Can we find a compromise? Is there any middle ground? Where ever did the CAM (Council of Allanaki Mages) go? Ok that's slightly off-topic, but seriously, maybe someone (like maybe a current gemmer PC) should try to reconstruct CAM, or something similar? Hold on, that might create tension, conflict, corruption, and betrayal in game, instead of on the GDB. Oops. ;)

Apropos of nothing...

If Oash ain't for you, and you're stuck as a gemmer, you can always try and sidle up to a templar. Sure, they can whip your skin off if you so much as look at them wrong, but if you're loyal (or appear loyal), competent, and can stay alive for more than a few weeks, there's no reason they wouldn't use you. You might even be able to talk them into forking over some 'sid. I've had working with relationships with templars as a gemmer before. As long as you don't try and get all buddy-buddy with one that likes to kick gemmers in the nuts just for the crime of being gemmers, it can be a very fun role, and enriching for both players in general.

If that still doesn't appeal to you, you can always make your services available to independents, unaffiliated commoners, or other clans. It's doubtful that they'll want anything to do with you, but every once in a while you might encounter somebody who needs something done and who doesn't care how it gets down. And then it's time to get your magick on. You can always work under the table.

Quote from: Lizzie on September 07, 2010, 09:06:45 PM
XD for president! Also, I liked Nyr's song. It makes me want to drink a beer.

I'm drinking some sort of alcoholic beverage now.

X-D knows I love him.

As for karma, a few really simple guidelines to get your karma adjusted in one direction or the other:

Play what you want to play within the scope of documentation.
Play it well.
Tell staff about what you are playing.
Interact with other players.

Four steps.  Follow them all.  Why?

1.  You will be playing what you want to play so you will enjoy it.
2.  You will be striving for excellence in what you play, so you will feel good about it.
3.  You will get feedback from staff because you are reporting to us, and we have to give you feedback--seriously, we have to at least resolve the request.
4.  You will be showing off your awesomeness to other players.  If you're good, you will get kudos.  If you are horrible and twinkish, you will get a player complaint.  If you are somewhere in the middle but interacting with other players, you will at the very least MAYBE be in someone's report to some clan somewhere.  You will get noticed.

Yeah I think the problem with trying a gemmer with your first karma character, is your options are extremely limited. You can try to go rogue with the gem, which is very difficult - but possible. The enjoyment factor would depend heavily on how much you enjoy playing something despised AND criminal, rather than merely despised.

Another option is to play a human gemmer and hope there's an Oashi noble around interested in hiring your character. This is not difficult, but if one were to believe the accounts of the few people who have actually played one and posted here, also not particularly enjoyable.

Another option is to play a run of the mill gemmer, non-Oash, any race you have karma for, and not a rogue. The enjoyment factor would be based then, on how much you enjoy playing something despised, but not necessarily criminal by default.

So in short, IF you were to go the gemmed route, the option that would be *most likely* to give you enjoyment, would be a non-Oashi, either city-based law-abiding known gemmer, or the more difficult and more risky gemmed rogue.

Oash certainly is an option. Or at least, it is when there is an active noble PC avaible to clan you. And if that active noble PC takes an interest in his gemmed mages, it can even be enjoyable and chock full of fun RP. However, if the noble PC doesn't take an interest in his gemmed mages, OR if there is no active Oash noble PC, or if that PC gets killed/stored/retired/disappears and doesn't tell staff so they don't know he needs to be replaced for 6 months - then you're SOL with a gemmed Oashi with nothing to do and no one to do it for, and you're stuck continuing to be a gemmed Oashi with nothing to do and no one to do it for, until such time as someone in the clan lets you go, gives you something to do, or kills you.

But because I love him, I'll explain:

Quote from: X-D on September 07, 2010, 09:01:07 PM
So, Nyr,  What your saying is, Arguing with staff or simply pointing out questionable wording makes you look like your giving staff the finger?

No, I am saying that treating staff in a condescending manner is tantamount to giving staff the finger.

Quote from: X-D on September 07, 2010, 09:01:07 PM

BTW Semantics:  a. the study of meaning.

Maybe use a word you actually know the meaning of next time, Or maybe you really were saying I do not know the meanings of words used such as "Should" "Encouraged"?

But hey, we now know that any contrary opinion posted by a player against staff or desire of a player for a staffer to clarify a statement is tantamount to the bird in Nyrs book.

giving staff the finger, by X-D

Exhibit A.

I always expect players to chime in with their opinions and even defend them vociferously.  I don't expect them to be dicks about it.  Don't be a dick about your opinion.  Just share it and speak from a position of respect towards the other posters.  I acknowledge that my responses to this sort of behavior are not the most respectful and kind words that I have ever given, but I do not respond well to people that treat staff in a condescending "holier than thou" manner.  Reconsider the way you talk to other players (and especially staffers) and I'll reconsider the way I respond to players that do not treat staffers in a respectful manner.

Respectfully,

Nyr

(who really does love you and everyone else)

Oh, I freely admit that the quoted post was me giving the finger, I was replying in kind after all. So...at least I was not giving the -entire- staff the finger.

As to the rest...Eh, I don't happen to see it that way, try to think of it more as me trying to be polite while still arguing a position, not so much condescending.  I'm pretty sure this has been the largest and most complete derail I've been involved in to date.

Oh, karma rate...Yup, join clans, it is fun and likely to get some karma dropped on you in short order, assuming you do all the stuff everybody else says.

Try tribal roles also. They're fun.

Quote from: Rhyden on September 07, 2010, 09:13:52 PM
Despite the two-sided tension, I think these kind of threads can still have their uses.

Can we find a compromise? Is there any middle ground? Where ever did the CAM (Council of Allanaki Mages) go?

Disbanded (amongst other things) and deemed criminal. I don't feel bad about posting that here, because it was done in a very public forum (well over a year ago), and would be on the website if certain areas were updated to reflect certain decisions.

Quote from: X-D on September 07, 2010, 03:04:08 PM
Old Kank, you know I cannot say what I did not like about a clan on the GDB. No matter what I say on the matter it would be considered badmouthing a clan and is at the very least frowned upon on the GDB. Also, to clarify what anybody else might think. I don't think Oash is a bad clan in any way. I DO on the other had see it as a Niche role if you are playing a gemmed in Oash and something a majority of people might not like.

X-D, I wasn't expecting you to badmouth a clan.  You know the circumstances, not me, and if you can't talk about it, that's fine, but I've never seen the staff take offense at players objectively discussing what's right or wrong with the game.  I was just curious since you seem to have strong feelings on the matter, and you've already said it wasn't the leadership or the clan members.

I've played in Oash on a couple occasions (within the last year, even), and it's never seemed to be any better or worse than any of the other noble house clans out there.  The only real difference I've noticed is that House Oash hires the gemmed.

X-D's real beef with Oash is that they only hire humans, and he only plays dwarves and d-elves, because they're uber.

Quote from: Synthesis on September 08, 2010, 02:40:56 AM
X-D's real beef with Oash is that they only hire humans, and he only plays dwarves and d-elves, because they're uber.

I had a gemmed dwarf in Oash once... for a whole hour and fifteen minutes before the OTHER noble PC logged in an kicked my ass to the curb... it was hilarious.

Quote from: Decameron on September 08, 2010, 02:13:24 AM

Quote from: Rhyden on September 07, 2010, 09:13:52 PM
Despite the two-sided tension, I think these kind of threads can still have their uses.

Can we find a compromise? Is there any middle ground? Where ever did the CAM (Council of Allanaki Mages) go?

Disbanded (amongst other things) and deemed criminal. I don't feel bad about posting that here, because it was done in a very public forum (well over a year ago), and would be on the website if certain areas were updated to reflect certain decisions.

Yeah, I know. My point being, it was probably a bad decision for future gemmers, even if the outcome was realistic.

I think a single temple for all the gemmed to do whatever sekrit stuff they do and hang out in would be cool. Maybe something to think about for Arm Reborn, if it can't ever be established in the current version.

This thread was about karma award rates.  For discussion about magicker classes and temples, please start another post.

Quote from: Sephiroto on September 08, 2010, 11:29:21 PM
This thread was about karma award rates.  For discussion about magicker classes and temples, please start another post.

I concur

Yes, it was about that, 3 pages and 6 days ago.

I'll sell my account, fifty bucks. I got karma.

Back on topic...

I've sort of picked up on something when it comes to Karma by reading through posts, and interacting with others in the community... there doesn't really seem to be a "rate" at all.  WHEN you get it seems to be based on luck, but hopefully, HOW MUCH you get in the longrun may be based on much nicer things such as consistency, helpfulness, playing roles within their context, and enhancing the IG environment.

As an example, I have a single friend (who will rename unnamed) who I introduced to arm ~2 months ago, and I'm hoping he can develop into a functional member of our society. However, despite my protests, he insists on telling me about everything he does IG, in at least a relatively vague fashion.  He has PKed plenty of characters simply because he could recognize they were new, or because he thought it would be fun [I guess I have no right to dictate to someone else what is good roleplay vs bad roleplay, but for the record, this is all just mindless hack & slash stuff), used OOC channel to convey "fuck you"s when things go bad for his character, ignored concepts such as day/night when it comes to working, and the list goes on and on.  He was telling me not long ago that he was happy, because he (in his words) did a nice thing for the first time ever, and helped a newbie figure things out.  He then informed me he was happy because he had received a note from staff which informed him he had been recognized for this action.  Upon the death of his character recently (which I keep telling him to STOP telling people about) he discovered he received Karma. 

If I ever witness IG, or are the victim of one of his OOC "Fuck you"s or something, I'll file a complaint.... But really, I already know someone wants to make this an argument about me "idly participating" in this sort of activity by not doing anything -- I direct him to the rules and tell him it isn't cool.  What would you do?

I also remember reading another post SOMEWHERE here (someone with search-fu can help me) where a staff member actually posted a particularly nefarious player's Account Notes, who despite all of the terrible things he had done, had received plenty of Karma.

I'm sure I'm not alone when I say, in approaching 6 months playing what I consider to be fairly consistent, at least realistically played roles in arm, I haven't seen my first point, and have had a special application rejected based on playtime, rather than how well the app was written.  Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining -- please, keep reading.  I know that someday, I'll see some Karma, and someday I'll get to try, and hopefully enjoy Karma roles.  This is not a goal for me, because I enjoy the roles I play, and I'm sure someday I'll get to play some other, restricted, role that interest me.

The moral of my post?  Don't worry about Karma.  EVERYONE seems to get it, it's just a matter of when.  Sometimes, players who I'm sure most of us agree don't really deserve these roles over others, will get access first, and sometimes they won't.  In the long run, however, it benefits you as a player to play consistently, and involve staff.  Karma is not an end goal, like staff has said on many occasions -- but I also realize the reality that there are some roles people just really want to play.  Be a regular player, play consistent characters, and eventually, everyone is recognized and awarded Karma roles/

Quote from: Feco on September 14, 2010, 12:45:28 PM

I also remember reading another post SOMEWHERE here (someone with search-fu can help me) where a staff member actually posted a particularly nefarious player's Account Notes, who despite all of the terrible things he had done, had received plenty of Karma.

I believe that staff member's post was actually regarding his own account notes, as proof that despite his previous errors, he still was accepted as staff. I do not believe he posted his karma rate, per say, but then again I don't believe there's any correlation between the amount of karma a person has and their acceptance into staff. Just pointing out the difference, because if you do terrible (i.e. abusing the code,etc) things, and do them consistently, my perception of the matter has been that staff can and will take your karma away from you.

Edited to clarify on 'terrible things', since this is Arm and we all do 'terrible things'.

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,34331.msg424677.html#msg424677

I am uncomfortable with players sharing specific details about their own karma level, what they can play, what they have played, etc. I am way beyond uncomfortable with players sharing specific details about other players' karma levels, what they can play, what they have played, etc. Regardless of what a specific player has told you about their playing and karma and so on, you don't have the whole story behind things, because you're not on staff and not involved with that particular situation.

So, just my personal opinion as one staffer, I would prefer that players not talk specifics about their karma or someone else's. I don't think it's beneficial, and I do believe that it's harmful.

Sorry,

I was trying to come to a conclusion based on observations.  I've simply concluded that Karma was never meant to be a "fair" system based on "Karma Rate" -- it's only meant to keep roles which could be destructive to the rest of the game out of hands of those incapable of handling them, based on observations made by the (human) staff member, and not by some system of time vs. reward.  I was trying to convey that the roles aren't Karma roles because anyone wants to keep them from being played, they are Karma roles because they may be hard to play without ruining others experiences.

I didn't intent to be malicious.  If anything, I was trying to be hopeful?  Something like that.

I probably could have summed that up without details.  Woops?  ;D

EDIT:  If you think it's really that destructive, I'll go ahead and wipe the post or someone else can.  Entirely up to you... My view has been summed up by this post just fine.

Special App a role that fleshes out part of the IC world that is not normally present.

To give an example in the vein of the recent derail, at one point before the current special application process, I came up with a character idea and worked it out with the appropriate Immortals.  Despite not having the karma for the guild, I was allowed a gemmed magicker (my first gemmed) that was destined (from application) to work for Tor.  Yes, gemmed Tor.  Not that he was the first gemmed that Tor played with.  Previously, there was Sparky the mul, and that other elkrosian right after they were implemented.  But they died really, really fast.

Not that he really ever did anything.  Or really saw Tor nobles that much.  But it was fun.

Although I think that route is now permanently closed, think about a Spec App that fills out something similar, something not seen every day, but which would likely exist.  I think this will get you noticed more than generic first magicker special app #4747.

Oh, and go to APMs and buy the imms lots of booze.

No, Feco, I didn't mean that I think you were being malicious. I just wanted to make a general caution about discussing specifics of karma levels. Unfortunately, the conclusion a lot of players will come to when karma specifics are discussed is, "OMG it's unfair and the staff hates me and they suck!" It doesn't really matter that there might be a good intent behind discussing it, when karma examples are used, the beast of envy will inevitably raise its ugly head and horrendously bludgeon someone.

You're right, karma is primarily about making sure that roles which have the ability to really mess up the game don't get played by those who would mess the game up. IMO, no-karma human roles are where the majority of the fun happens in the game anyways, but I get that people want a chance to try out "special" roles.

I'm having to fight back my beast of envy already!

This whole thread seems like it's either trying to teach a horse how to get the carrot on the stick or subtly vent frustration for not getting karma when we think we should.

I don't see any harm in your post, Feco. You were very civil. I would green with envy if I were you in that situation. I don't think you're complaining or trying to subtly "stick it to the man"; just realize that staff do have tools to help them get insight, and karma isn't handed out like candy.

Sometimes rewards are given for exceptional things, and sometimes taking time to help someone is exceptional. I'm actually enthused about new players getting karma. Heck, it might even promote growth and quell the urge for collecting chalton boots. Without fresh new players the game would die then everyone will embrace the mind rotting experience of WoW.

I'll admit that (and I have before) I'm not awesome. I have a myriad of flaws someone snooping me could point out. Yet I still can apply for any role I want through special application. Fair enough, huh? If I do good enough, I might even be allowed to make a similar role on my own later. Let me just continue to elaborate how I feel after reeling you with a wall of text:

Bias is present with any system of rewards. Fair is only a point of view and will inevitably shift depending on who or what is making the decision. I believe that even though you might not have the karma to make a certain type of character, it doesn't that the staff feel you cannot handle the role or simply suck. And chances are, if anyone does think of you that way, you've done something to deserve it. Also, the scarcity of muls and sorcs has been coded in for a reason. Could you imagine seeing over a hundred players on then half of them being sorcerers? I can, and it would be atrocious. People should actually be very wary of making karma roles. They are often more demanding, present unique challenges to your roleplay, and can sometimes drive you insane with loneliness. Without a doubt, people might jump into the role without thinking it through.

Others, however, would enter the restricted roles merely for the purpose of having the power to kill the Mazy noob by sneezing. :(! When your objective shifts from roleplay to grief, branching, or skillmaxxing, the effect will be like ripples in still water, disrupting our environment. So, the ones who maintain the mud should have the all the power to say who does and doesn't get to make these roles at whim.  I feel from my experiences that the immortals do a great job, but ultimately, anyone who is not omnipotent cannot claim to be absolutely fair. If someone would quit from the despair of not getting karma, then they truly will never win at Armageddon. This MUD will make you laugh and cry then stay up late to do it some more. My best advice is to just have fun and not at the expense of others.

With that said, who doesn't feel like that chick from titanic in that famous scene when they are recognized as outstanding and given karma? I hope your thinking about the right scene, ANYWAYS... We all love the warm fuzzy feeling of karma. I'd lie if I said I didn't want s'more damn karma cookies. Do I deserve them? Yes. I deserve 8 for writing this post! Thankfully, I'm don't have access to the cookie jar. My positive reinforcement will just have to come from good notes, kudos, and the rewarding feeling from a scene well done.

Quote from: Mazy on September 14, 2010, 04:42:53 PM
I'm actually enthused about new players getting karma. Heck, it might even promote growth and quell the urge for collecting chalton boots. Without fresh new players the game would die then everyone will embrace the mind rotting experience of WoW.

There is a lot of truth to this quote.

Just sayin'.

Quote from: Nyr on September 14, 2010, 01:02:43 PM
http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,34331.msg424677.html#msg424677

Thanks for that, by the way.  Woops on being mistaken about the content!

I seem to remember Templars being on that Karma chart somewhere a few years ago. :) Just noticed it's no longer there. Tee Hee

Quote from: shadeoux on November 18, 2010, 11:48:50 PM
I seem to remember Templars being on that Karma chart somewhere a few years ago. :) Just noticed it's no longer there. Tee Hee

Templars die faster than players get karma, hah.

If Templars are dying young and gloriously, they're doing an awesome job. >_>

I got my first point of karma after about, maybe, six months of play. I wanted to try something different, so I sent an email saying "I think I deserve karma." Kinda like asking for a raise. The imms just said, "Oh, yeah you've been playing a while, here have a point."

My next couple bumps came from special apping for a role, and they ended up leaving me with the karma to chose that role at will. It was never stated why, for the most part.

More bumps came from having characters that lived in clans and contributed.

There's not really a 'rate'. It's different for everyone. Most people who get karma, get it for being a good leader. And by good, we mean keeping the players actively occupied on an OOC level. They could've been terrible, dictator assholes using their peons as meat walls IG. >:D

You don't even have to last long. I never last long. I have role ADD and want to try different stuff constantly. If I have a character that lives for 2 months, I've got my next 3 roles typed up in a word file already.

So, best ways to get noticed/ get positive notes / get karma:
-play in clan
-submit regular character reports (especially explaining a PK, etc)
-involve other PCs (If you're trying to play an indy merchant, try and contract all the hunter/gatherer work out and get other players involved on your master plan, for example)
-leadership roles (Though I never take them because I refuse to have an obligation to Armageddon.)

And, if all else fails, special app. It's common to jump to a role 5 points up the list from your CURRENT karma level. It's no guarantee that you'll always have the 10 karma tektolnes role available, but at least you'll get to have the experience for one character.




If you want to try a role, just special app. I've play

Quote from: Zoan on November 26, 2010, 06:41:21 AM
If Templars are dying young and gloriously, they're doing an awesome job. >_>

Unfortunately, like everyone else in Zalanthas they generally die to either getting bored, or getting dumb.

QuoteI seem to remember Templars being on that Karma chart somewhere a few years ago. Smiley Just noticed it's no longer there. Tee Hee

? Templars has never been on that chart. Well, at least not in the last six years.

Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on December 01, 2010, 07:52:31 AM

QuoteI seem to remember Templars being on that Karma chart somewhere a few years ago. Smiley Just noticed it's no longer there. Tee Hee

? Templars has never been on that chart. Well, at least not in the last six years.

Count the number of slots for the races and guilds during character creation.

Then count up the number of guilds and races provided for on the web page.

There's still several unaccounted for slots.

Quote from: Pale Horse on December 01, 2010, 09:16:50 AM
Count the number of slots for the races and guilds during character creation.

Then count up the number of guilds and races provided for on the web page.

There's still several unaccounted for slots.

I have sat at the screen before and ogled at this, trying to figure it out. It's beautifully mysterious.

How many are missing?  Most of the guilds, if not all, are templar guilds.  Most of the races are non-playable races.  Mantis, gith, halfling, etc.

Quote from: Sephiroto on December 01, 2010, 07:52:38 PM
How many are missing?  Most of the guilds, if not all, are templar guilds.  Most of the races are non-playable races.  Mantis, gith, halfling, etc.

I don't quite remember, but there are blocks in both the race selection and guild selection that elude me.

QuoteClasses missing:  Lirathan Templar, Jihaen Templar, Templar
Races missing:  space vestric, space cowboy, and a replicant

Quote from: HavokBlue on December 01, 2010, 08:24:55 PM

QuoteClasses missing:  Lirathan Templar, Jihaen Templar, Templar
Races missing:  space vestric, space cowboy, and a replicant

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,39203.0.html

Hah...ahh yes. I remember that post.

I laughed...and then watched more Bebop.

QuoteCount the number of slots for the races and guilds during character creation.

Then count up the number of guilds and races provided for on the web page.

There's still several unaccounted for slots.

Yeah.... But what does that have to do with Karma? Templars, gith, mantis, etc were never on the karma tree. At least not in the last decade. That doesn't mean the imms can't allow you to select them. Ever special apped? They don't temporarily up your Karma to allow you to play the character you want. They just open up you account to that race or class.

Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on December 04, 2010, 11:19:25 AM

QuoteCount the number of slots for the races and guilds during character creation.

Then count up the number of guilds and races provided for on the web page.

There's still several unaccounted for slots.

Yeah.... But what does that have to do with Karma? Templars, gith, mantis, etc were never on the karma tree. At least not in the last decade. That doesn't mean the imms can't allow you to select them. Ever special apped? They don't temporarily up your Karma to allow you to play the character you want. They just open up you account to that race or class.

I'm aware they're not on the karma tree.

I've special app'd.

I got karma that way.

Even filling in the guild tree with a southern Templar guild and the two Tuluki Templar guilds, there is still one guild space empty and unaccounted for.

Filling in the racial options with halfling, mantis and gith still leaves three open spaces.

That is what I was speaking about, when I typed that.

I gotcha. (And for the record, I've gotten karma that way a couple times also, but it's not standard practice).

I guess I was just confused because you quoted me there, and I don't see the two as being necessarily related.

Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on December 04, 2010, 11:58:43 AM
I gotcha. (And for the record, I've gotten karma that way a couple times also, but it's not standard practice).

I guess I was just confused because you quoted me there, and I don't see the two as being necessarily related.

I think I was just being lazy, there, and took your post along with theirs because it was easier than quoting, cutting, then posting just the part I wanted.

Sorry for the confusion.

One of the missing races is "Blackwing Desert Elf."

You could either pick to be a "Blacking" DElf or a regular DElf.

Sort of veering off topic, but would a missing guild and race be the ones used by staff Avatars?

I would have thought they would just put them in outside of normal processes, but I guess it wouldn't be out of the ordinary to have an "Immortal" race and guild when the game first started.

Very ridiculous speculation.

Space vestric is probably just as likely.

No, we've seen staff avatars before and even assessed them when we were being sneaky.  They set themselves to all sorts of races.  They don't need one in character creation when setting up their primary staff character, from what I can see.  We have staff that are plants or halflings or (magicker IC creatures I'm not sure I should mention) or humans or gith or giants, etc etc etc.

I remember reading on the GDB or elsewhere that there was a Shadowdancer class, or something like that. This was way, way back in the day, long before my time, back when the MUD was mostly hack'n'slash. The missing slot is supposedly that class.
This is an unconfirmed GDB rumor, though. Can't even remember where I heard it.

Quote from: Kronibas on December 04, 2010, 12:57:27 PM
One of the missing races is "Blackwing Desert Elf."

You could either pick to be a "Blacking" DElf or a regular DElf.

What was the difference?

One of them probably had a flag that caused them not to get ganked by blackwing death squads.

Quote from: LoD on November 29, 2007, 04:37:49 PM
I've been playing since the game started, over 15 years ago.

I remember when:

• There was no Red Storm, Cenyr, Tuluk, Luir's, Blackwing, or any other civilization besides Steinal and Allanak.
• There were names instead of short descriptions.
• You could still use 'who' and 'tell' like hack and slash games.
• The Doomsbringer, Arch Magi, Shadow, and Tan Muark were all real clans.
• Walking through Steinal.

• The Necromancer, Shadowdancer, and Illusionist classes.

• Being able to see your skills and skill percentages.
• Merchants only had 6 skills (haggle, value, scan, listen, cavilish, and pilot)
• There was no crafting skills.
• Mantis and halflings chilling out in Tuluk.
• Playing the owner of the wagon that now lies at the bottom of the gulch between Luir's and 'nak
• When you could join the Merchant Houses by finding an NPC and paying him 500 coins to join.
• When they didn't have limits on how many times you could offer/barter for a better price.
• When NPC's used to respawn carrying steel, iron, or bronze weapons.
• When PC descriptions could be: the black-hooded dwarf, the red-robed elf, the man with strange eyes.

So, yeah, I feel old sometimes too.

-LoD

Found this.  I thought it was interesting.

We should really start a new topic.[/list]

I've gone almost 3 years with no Karma, so It's not something easily came by I guess.

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 04, 2010, 05:59:35 PM

Quote from: Kronibas on December 04, 2010, 12:57:27 PM
One of the missing races is "Blackwing Desert Elf."

You could either pick to be a "Blacking" DElf or a regular DElf.

What was the difference?

Blackwing Elf race was the precursor to (or prototype for) the Desert Elf race.  They are practically the same thing except back in the day all elves were race elf except for Blackwing Elves.  If the Blackwing elves were open today they'd be race desert elf.

QuoteI've gone almost 3 years with no Karma, so It's not something easily came by I guess.

Chances are you don't suck that badly. Special app some stuff. Ask for your account notes, and if they aren't terrible, there's probably no reason for this.

I personally believe the biggest reason for no (or low) karma, is staff oversight. They have better things to do then upgrade the B players (Most of us.) If you're not involved in clans, or central to multiple plots, you're not going to get noticed, no matter how solid your RP is.  That's my experience with this. The only times I've been awarded karma were right after longer lived, plot involved, clanned players, or times when I've special apped, or in the case of my first karma point - asked for karma. (It says specifically not to do this, so I wouldn't try that one again.)

Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on December 10, 2010, 02:16:51 AM
... or in the case of my first karma point - asked for karma. (It says specifically not to do this, so I wouldn't try that one again.)

Staff have said before that if you feel overlooked, to petition them to be reviewed for karma. I think this would be best accomplished by asking for account notes and asking to see if you may deserve a bump. They don't mind being asked, from what I can tell, as long as you don't constantly whine for it and see it as an end in itself.

I got mine after almost a year. And i had to do a request for it, even though i had a special app wiggler, and 2 pc's that i did weekly updates for, and were very active. I never got any account notes or anything untill i requested a look. I got it purely on time played, and the fact I had no negative notes, so I must be doing something right. LOL.

Moral of the story: If you are overlooked, it happens. Theres alot of players. Do not feel shy about putting in a request for an evaluation. And don't feel bad about special apping a role/ job you want to play (like magickers) it may take a minute (it took 3 weeks for my special app to be approved) But you should get it, barring rp probs.


Update: I still havent even made a d-elf for some reason. Even though i got the Karma... I really just like playing magickers. Man those are fun. Ohhh... Role Idea...

Quote from: KnownUnknown on December 22, 2010, 07:32:42 AM
I got mine after almost a year. And i had to do a request for it, even though i had a special app wiggler, and 2 pc's that i did weekly updates for, and were very active. I never got any account notes or anything untill i requested a look. I got it purely on time played, and the fact I had no negative notes, so I must be doing something right. LOL.

Moral of the story: If you are overlooked, it happens. Theres alot of players. Do not feel shy about putting in a request for an evaluation. And don't feel bad about special apping a role/ job you want to play (like magickers) it may take a minute (it took 3 weeks for my special app to be approved) But you should get it, barring rp probs.


Update: I still havent even made a d-elf for some reason. Even though i got the Karma... I really just like playing magickers. Man those are fun. Ohhh... Role Idea...

I've been wanting to play a d-elf for a while now.  The main problem is that my geographic knowledge is limited to Allanak, and where to find the spice den in Tuluk.

Quote from: lordcooper on December 22, 2010, 12:45:59 PM

Quote from: KnownUnknown on December 22, 2010, 07:32:42 AM
I got mine after almost a year. And i had to do a request for it, even though i had a special app wiggler, and 2 pc's that i did weekly updates for, and were very active. I never got any account notes or anything untill i requested a look. I got it purely on time played, and the fact I had no negative notes, so I must be doing something right. LOL.

Moral of the story: If you are overlooked, it happens. Theres alot of players. Do not feel shy about putting in a request for an evaluation. And don't feel bad about special apping a role/ job you want to play (like magickers) it may take a minute (it took 3 weeks for my special app to be approved) But you should get it, barring rp probs.


Update: I still havent even made a d-elf for some reason. Even though i got the Karma... I really just like playing magickers. Man those are fun. Ohhh... Role Idea...

I've been wanting to play a d-elf for a while now.  The main problem is that my geographic knowledge is limited to Allanak, and where to find the spice den in Tuluk.

App a D-elf. The table lands isnt that bad of a place. Easy animals to kill, water that can be found (it's common knowledge so i said it, but i wont say WHERE) And the other players there will help you find those things, i bet.

when i started about three years ago i did enough stupid die-easy, idiotic-idea, obviously-boosting-own-skills crap, not to give me nightmares, but enough to make me somewhat worried.

i'm way better at the game now. i'm living longer (sometimes) and while the idea of playing a lightning magicker sounds like heaven to me, its the only thing i really want.

i know for a fact i will never get any karma (unless i spit out an occasional bit of A-actor genius and a staffy sees it) but, one day, as my RP improves, i will send in an application to be a lightning magicker, when i feel i can act well, be convincing, and entertain others, as second nature rather than trying.

my fave roles are:
1. lone scavenger who finds their own food in the wild
2. lightning magicker
3. a jeweler or tailor, basically a crafter of some type
4. a half-elf of random inherited appearance
5. someone who is psychologically insane


i'd say my least favorite is a human merchant working for a house; the safe(ish) life just doesn't appeal to me at all, nor the elegance, riches or bling. i want to fight to the death over a couple of sid, or a drink of water.

You should get to know the magicker roles through playing one of lower karma than an elkrosian before playing an elkrosian.  Seriously, if you have no karma, you don't really understand the first thing about magick, and you'll need to understand that before seriously tackling the higher-karma magicker roles.

Quote from: Marshmellow on December 24, 2010, 11:02:17 PM
You should get to know the magicker roles through playing one of lower karma than an elkrosian before playing an elkrosian.  Seriously, if you have no karma, you don't really understand the first thing about magick, and you'll need to understand that before seriously tackling the higher-karma magicker roles.

This is what I don't get. Aside from the coded power, what's the difference between the elements? I mean, it's not easier to roleplay a rukkian than a drovian for example. Is it? Why?

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 01:18:50 AM

Quote from: Marshmellow on December 24, 2010, 11:02:17 PM
You should get to know the magicker roles through playing one of lower karma than an elkrosian before playing an elkrosian.  Seriously, if you have no karma, you don't really understand the first thing about magick, and you'll need to understand that before seriously tackling the higher-karma magicker roles.

This is what I don't get. Aside from the coded power, what's the difference between the elements? I mean, it's not easier to roleplay a rukkian than a drovian for example. Is it? Why?

Lemme translate what Marshmellow said....

Him say:

"Dear sir,

 From your post, I've gathered that you don't have any karma-- and as such, have yet to play a karma role, magicker included.

Perhaps it would be in your interest to familiarize yourself with the magick system a little, before throwing caution in the wind and trying to special app an elkrosian, so that you'll know what to do, and not wind up getting killed to something stupid with your long-awaited elkrosian.

Yours truly, Marshmellow."

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 01:18:50 AM

Quote from: Marshmellow on December 24, 2010, 11:02:17 PM
You should get to know the magicker roles through playing one of lower karma than an elkrosian before playing an elkrosian.  Seriously, if you have no karma, you don't really understand the first thing about magick, and you'll need to understand that before seriously tackling the higher-karma magicker roles.

This is what I don't get. Aside from the coded power, what's the difference between the elements? I mean, it's not easier to roleplay a rukkian than a drovian for example. Is it? Why?

The two lowest karma elements, Rukkians and Vivaduans, are well-rounded in their own ways and suited to players who're new to magick. Elements above those are still viable, but I'd say they would be increasingly difficult for someone in such a position. Either the guilds have very 'niche' powers and require above average resourcefulness to survive, or they're restricted because of disruptive potential.

... And that's about all I can say without crossing the ICness line, I think. Qzzrbl has the right of it, though. :)

You can die very easily with a merchant if that's the concern. As for the disruptive powers, I get that, but we're not talking about sorcerers and from what I understand drovians are much weaker than ruks and have less griefing potential. Could be I am totally out of my depth here.

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 02:00:43 AM
You can die very easily with a merchant if that's the concern. As for the disruptive powers, I get that, but we're not talking about sorcerers and from what I understand drovians are much weaker than ruks and have less griefing potential. Could be I am totally out of my depth here.

Well, I've played all the available magick classes and I would not recommend any of the higher karma classes to anyone knew to the magick system in armageddon, the drovian inparticular. The classes aren't so much limited for their griefing potential, or outright power, it's simply that the higher you go in the karma tree, the more complicated the class tends to be IMO. Drovians though take the cake for top-tier complicated.

Still, merchant is more complicated than a warrior but some people prefer to start with one, enjoying the challenge. I have pretty limited interest in magick, actually in most of the karma guilds except for the couple at the top of the tree and it's not because of their coded power.

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 02:26:15 AM
Still, merchant is more complicated than a warrior but some people prefer to start with one, enjoying the challenge. I have pretty limited interest in magick, actually in most of the karma guilds except for the couple at the top of the tree and it's not because of their coded power.

You're just feeling argumentative, aren't you?

All that was basically said at the start was, "Hey, maybe you should learn the magic system a little before you run around trying to fart lightningbolts at stuff, m'kay?"

Which is pretty sound advice.

I love magick so much, not for the power but for the experience. I don't get scared in combat of losing my warrior, because I'm canny and can generally survive any encounter I find myself in as a mundane.

But traversing a city as a rogue witch? Nothing gets my heart thumping like a templar looking at me. Or even as a gemmed, the experience of being gemmed is unique, and fun to me.

Quote from: Qzzrbl on December 25, 2010, 02:34:32 AM

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 02:26:15 AM
Still, merchant is more complicated than a warrior but some people prefer to start with one, enjoying the challenge. I have pretty limited interest in magick, actually in most of the karma guilds except for the couple at the top of the tree and it's not because of their coded power.

You're just feeling argumentative, aren't you?

All that was basically said at the start was, "Hey, maybe you should learn the magic system a little before you run around trying to fart lightningbolts at stuff, m'kay?"

Which is pretty sound advice.

No, I simply dislike forcing people to play though the characters they don't enjoy just so they could learn the system. If we were talking about  karma destroyers of souls I'd understand.

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 02:46:26 AM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on December 25, 2010, 02:34:32 AM

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 02:26:15 AM
Still, merchant is more complicated than a warrior but some people prefer to start with one, enjoying the challenge. I have pretty limited interest in magick, actually in most of the karma guilds except for the couple at the top of the tree and it's not because of their coded power.

You're just feeling argumentative, aren't you?

All that was basically said at the start was, "Hey, maybe you should learn the magic system a little before you run around trying to fart lightningbolts at stuff, m'kay?"

Which is pretty sound advice.

No, I simply dislike forcing people to play though the characters they don't enjoy just so they could learn the system. If we were talking about  karma destroyers of souls I'd understand.

Nobody's forcing anyone to do anything.

Was just a suggestion.

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 02:46:26 AM

No, I simply dislike forcing people to play though the characters they don't enjoy just so they could learn the system. If we were talking about  karma destroyers of souls I'd understand.

The single most upset at Arm I've ever been, was the first time I spec app'd a Whiran, cast a certain spell, and ended up dying almost immediately.  This is not a 'oh man, you have to play a viv before you can understand the super intricacies of the drov' it's more of a.. as a bit of advice, in this permadeath game, do not blow your awesome unique special app for a class without being prepared to play it well.  You will be sad and disappointed.

Also, staff outright refuses to just hand out an Elkran, to a guy who's never played a magicker.  I tried a while ago.   :-[

On my second character, I special-apped a mindbender. Staff were...gentle in their reply back to me. I was such a cute little nub.

Quote from: Qzzrbl on December 25, 2010, 02:53:06 AM

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 02:46:26 AM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on December 25, 2010, 02:34:32 AM

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 02:26:15 AM
Still, merchant is more complicated than a warrior but some people prefer to start with one, enjoying the challenge. I have pretty limited interest in magick, actually in most of the karma guilds except for the couple at the top of the tree and it's not because of their coded power.

You're just feeling argumentative, aren't you?

All that was basically said at the start was, "Hey, maybe you should learn the magic system a little before you run around trying to fart lightningbolts at stuff, m'kay?"

Which is pretty sound advice.

No, I simply dislike forcing people to play though the characters they don't enjoy just so they could learn the system. If we were talking about  karma destroyers of souls I'd understand.

Nobody's forcing anyone to do anything.

Karma system kinda does :)

Quote from: maxid on December 25, 2010, 02:54:33 AM
Also, staff outright refuses to just hand out an Elkran, to a guy who's never played a magicker.  I tried a while ago.   :-[

I also tried it, but for a sorcerer... my, they are inflexible :)

Mindbender.. sorcerer.  At least I had realistic dreams!   I just wanted to be male storm.

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 03:00:23 AM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on December 25, 2010, 02:53:06 AM

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 02:46:26 AM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on December 25, 2010, 02:34:32 AM

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 02:26:15 AM
Still, merchant is more complicated than a warrior but some people prefer to start with one, enjoying the challenge. I have pretty limited interest in magick, actually in most of the karma guilds except for the couple at the top of the tree and it's not because of their coded power.

You're just feeling argumentative, aren't you?

All that was basically said at the start was, "Hey, maybe you should learn the magic system a little before you run around trying to fart lightningbolts at stuff, m'kay?"

Which is pretty sound advice.

No, I simply dislike forcing people to play though the characters they don't enjoy just so they could learn the system. If we were talking about  karma destroyers of souls I'd understand.

Nobody's forcing anyone to do anything.

Karma system kinda does :)

Then argue with the karma system.... Not folks trying to give a little advice.

:)

Quote from: Zoan on December 25, 2010, 02:56:25 AM
On my second character, I special-apped a mindbender. Staff were...gentle in their reply back to me. I was such a cute little nub.

Also-- D'aaaawwwwh!

That's adorable. x]

Quote from: Qzzrbl on December 25, 2010, 03:04:48 AM
Then argue with the karma system.... Not folks trying to give a little advice.

:)

I thought that's what I was doing.

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 03:17:55 AM

I thought that's what I was doing.

That's not really how it came across.

Quote from: maxid on December 25, 2010, 03:21:50 AM

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 03:17:55 AM

I thought that's what I was doing.

That's not really how it came across.

:(

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 03:17:55 AM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on December 25, 2010, 03:04:48 AM
Then argue with the karma system.... Not folks trying to give a little advice.

:)

I thought that's what I was doing.

Oh....

>_>

I KNEW THAT!

=D

The karma system is the way it is for a couple of reasons:
1) To keep powerful roles in the "right" hands. (At least until they prove they're no longer 'right'.)
2) To keep roles that are supposed to be rare IC suitably rare.

According to the documentation, there are approximately less Drovians and Elkrans in the world than there are Vivaduans or Rukkians (FAQ 12 (http://www.armageddon.org/cgi-bin/help_index/show_help?FAQ_12)).

So even if the higher-karma magicker roles aren't necessarily more difficult to play, they are certainly more isolated, leaving them within the realm of players that are deemed ready for the chance to try. Basically, if you haven't tried a "simpler" magic guild before delving into a more complex one, you're more likely to be put off by the experience. At least that's how I understand it. (This actually applies to all sorts of roles with simple and complex places to fill).

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 01:18:50 AM

Quote from: Marshmellow on December 24, 2010, 11:02:17 PM
You should get to know the magicker roles through playing one of lower karma than an elkrosian before playing an elkrosian.  Seriously, if you have no karma, you don't really understand the first thing about magick, and you'll need to understand that before seriously tackling the higher-karma magicker roles.

This is what I don't get. Aside from the coded power, what's the difference between the elements? I mean, it's not easier to roleplay a rukkian than a drovian for example. Is it? Why?

Rukkian and Vivaduan are great to learn the magick system. Why?

They both get things they can trade. It's common knowledge that a Vivaduan can make water. (which they often trade for food) And Rukkians make food (which they trade for water) This makes simple survival for them MUCH easier then say, a Krathi who pretty much burns things.

This makes them more usefull in learning the magic system. Which CAn get frustrating at times (it's fun frustration. i love trying to figure out my next spell) Because if you are worrying where you are going to get your next bit of water or food. You arent learning the magick system.

I'll actually be special apping my second Magicker here soon, so it's waiting for me when my pc dies. Which, according to my luck, is in 3-4 weeks. (my pc's die on the birthdays, for some reason! lol)

Fyi: It does take some time to get special apps back, unless it's for a role that's being recruited for (templar, ect) So, above all, BE PATIENT. the staff WILL get back to you on it.

And of course lets not forget this. Vivaduans and Rukkians BOTH get to be pretty dang powerfull once you play them for a bit. So it's not like you are getting gimped.

yeah, see, this is part of why i love the discussion board---- i didn't know none this.

i want to eat lightning and crap thunder. but, honestly, 95% of what i could ever want is free, thank god.

i need to stop making half-elves with parents who could stand each other without booze.

actually, thief sounds frustrating, too. one time, without knowing the rinth, i tried playing a rinthi thief. died the first day.

i wish i could try the rinth again, and get some roleplay in before i die. i had no idea that the rinth was divided into sides.

i had no idea certain magickers were more complicated than others.

i was almost chased down by a magicker who seemed to want to kill me just because.

i'm assuming you don't have behavorial requirements as a magicker like the rest of us? /blahblahblah

merry christmas!

Actually. One of my FAVORITE pc's was a burgler. he was employed by a noble. It's alot of fun. i recomend trying it.

I tried that but I failed.

Leadership roles is where you get karma. As long as you are around to help out your underlings and prove to move plots forward and create plots. Whether it be a sponsored role or a role built up over time, that is truly where staff see your style of play and the amount of responsibility you have. You want karma, play those kind of roles and play them cohesively with the staff. Updating them and keeping them in the loop is very important.

I'd argue with the leadership role = karma thing.

What karma represents is the staff's trust in you, but that's acquired by:

1) Not sharing secrets ooc.  This means GDB too, before you post about X, read the help file on X.  That's all you can really talk about.  No help file?  You probably shouldn't talk about it.

2) Play people.  This is a real complicated thing for players to wrap their heads around, from what I've seen, and I've been lucky in having some good direction in my communication from staff on this over time (see point 4).  People don't like doing things that might kill them regularly if they can avoid it, they don't like hard work that is body-breaking(this is what slaves are for).  People have relationships, or crave them(and this is more then mudsex) unless they are psychologically altered(some races fit this description).

a) As a sub point, try not to play 'you.'  Its inevitable that some of your traits will leak into your characters, no doubt.  But if you're able to portray a different persona every time you begin a new PC, you're doing great. 

3) Play reasonable.  Just because the code lets you spam kill everything in sight, or steal someone's pants without them being able to notice for some reason doesn't mean you should go around doing such things.  If you are evenly slightly unsure if what you're doing/planning is reasonable, ask. 

4) Update staff with your intentions, no matter how diabolical they may be.  Regular communications shows you're not trying to 'win the game' and instead just playing it.  This is a good thing.  It also allows staff to guide you towards these other concerns, and hone your role playing. 

a) Be honest and open here.  Tell the staff in this ooc communication absolutely what you're intending.  This is speculation from my own experience, but, I've noticed that when I give a topic that reads in the following format, its generally well recieved.   My character is trying to do X, or did X.  He'll instead report to <bossguy> Y, trying to slip it by.  Or, with the intention of acquiring Z goal my, character is doing A, B, and C things. 

What leadership roles can do, if you work your way up IC or take one from a post, is give a boost in visibility for your ability to do these things.  So in that respect, I agree.  However, if you are consistent about these things across characters, you will be noticed. 

Karma is given on the basis of good roleplay, yes, but it's also important to keep in mind that trust is a very big factor in karma as well.  If you are engaged in any of the following, you shouldn't expect to get much in the way of karma:
--You aren't 100% honest with staff all the time (this includes "staff fishing", aka turning and asking another staff member for something when one tells you no)
--Do unrealistic and/or unresponsible things with your PCs (like taking a full chest of stones out with you in your inventory while you beat on small game with your bare hands)
--Abuse code for the purpose of skilling up or making money (this includes spamming of skills/spells)
--Are involved in OOC spreading of IC information
--Your roleplay revolves around OOC influences rather than IC factors
--You use OOC means to affect IC events

If you feel that you aren't receiving karma and you deserve it, you are always free to contact staff to get a dialogue going about it.  Staff can't watch everyone all the time, so it is possible that you may have been unintentionally overlooked.  One of the best ways to get noticed by staff and recognized is to send in updates on a regular basis for your characters, and/or keep bios updated.  It doesn't matter if you're clanned or not.  Unclanned PCs also have "clan staff" that review reports and requests from them.

I don't like writing bios. I really love the idea of keeping staff up to date on my character, I just can't bring myself to write bios. Is it so important that it will affect my chances for karma?

Quote from: Kryos on December 25, 2010, 07:22:04 PM
I'd argue with the leadership role = karma thing.

What karma represents is the staff's trust in you, but that's acquired by:

1) Not sharing secrets ooc.  This means GDB too, before you post about X, read the help file on X.  That's all you can really talk about.  No help file?  You probably shouldn't talk about it.

2) Play people.  This is a real complicated thing for players to wrap their heads around, from what I've seen, and I've been lucky in having some good direction in my communication from staff on this over time (see point 4).  People don't like doing things that might kill them regularly if they can avoid it, they don't like hard work that is body-breaking(this is what slaves are for).  People have relationships, or crave them(and this is more then mudsex) unless they are psychologically altered(some races fit this description).

a) As a sub point, try not to play 'you.'  Its inevitable that some of your traits will leak into your characters, no doubt.  But if you're able to portray a different persona every time you begin a new PC, you're doing great. 

3) Play reasonable.  Just because the code lets you spam kill everything in sight, or steal someone's pants without them being able to notice for some reason doesn't mean you should go around doing such things.  If you are evenly slightly unsure if what you're doing/planning is reasonable, ask. 

4) Update staff with your intentions, no matter how diabolical they may be.  Regular communications shows you're not trying to 'win the game' and instead just playing it.  This is a good thing.  It also allows staff to guide you towards these other concerns, and hone your role playing. 

a) Be honest and open here.  Tell the staff in this ooc communication absolutely what you're intending.  This is speculation from my own experience, but, I've noticed that when I give a topic that reads in the following format, its generally well recieved.   My character is trying to do X, or did X.  He'll instead report to <bossguy> Y, trying to slip it by.  Or, with the intention of acquiring Z goal my, character is doing A, B, and C things. 

What leadership roles can do, if you work your way up IC or take one from a post, is give a boost in visibility for your ability to do these things.  So in that respect, I agree.  However, if you are consistent about these things across characters, you will be noticed. 

Hahahaha oh my god.  Number 2. Playing different "people" are about the only things I'm good at. I enjoy playing different types of personalites /desires/dreams like crazy. So much so that sometimes I wish my current character would get killed so that I could try to play something she couldn't possibly get along with, if playing her eventually becomes too easy in terms of personality molding. Still pisses me off when a character dies tho, but I've learned to accept that, and to admire the variety of ways to die in this game. I would actually pay up to fifteen bucks to see (insert spoiler here) character die again. It was amazing, and happened a little too fast, as it should.

Quote from: Zoan on December 26, 2010, 02:38:03 AM
I don't like writing bios. I really love the idea of keeping staff up to date on my character, I just can't bring myself to write bios. Is it so important that it will affect my chances for karma?

Some staffers like myself are really big fans of bios, and part of why is because well fleshed out bios make it SO much easier for staff to know who a PC is and what's going on with them at a glance, especially when staff rotations happen.  However, it's the regular reporting that's the more important of the two.

Quote from: Zoan on December 26, 2010, 02:38:03 AM
I don't like writing bios. I really love the idea of keeping staff up to date on my character, I just can't bring myself to write bios.

You could prob'ly make a bio out of the IC portion of your report-to-staff without too much effort.

Quote from: Niamh on December 25, 2010, 09:52:45 PM
If you feel that you aren't receiving karma and you deserve it, you are always free to contact staff to get a dialogue going about it.  Staff can't watch everyone all the time, so it is possible that you may have been unintentionally overlooked.  One of the best ways to get noticed by staff and recognized is to send in updates on a regular basis for your characters, and/or keep bios updated.  It doesn't matter if you're clanned or not.  Unclanned PCs also have "clan staff" that review reports and requests from them.

     Niamh's pretty much nailed it here.  If karma is something you're aiming for, a regular flow of communication between yourself and whichever staff-members are yours is essential.  At the beginning of my Arm. career, I was blessed with a patient, up-beat Immortal who took the time to explain a lot of the staff perspective (at least from her own view), and just how important it was to keep them informed.

     Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my belief is that nearly every Clan leadership position necessitates weekly updates?  I think there's some truth to those roles garnering one a somewhat higher profile, and thus more staff scrutiny than there might be otherwise.  Mainly, though, any karma gleaned from said roles likely has something to do with the consistent player-staff communication. 

     In any event, don't get discouraged.  If you ask your staff-member what you can do to earn their trust, I'm confidant they'll answer.    Hope this helps.

     (And Eniriah, if you happen to read this, you're still aces in my book, babe.  ;))

Quote from: Niamh on December 25, 2010, 09:52:45 PM
"your staff-member"

You speak as though we all get our own personal member of staff?

Quote from: Ami on December 26, 2010, 02:13:27 PM

Quote from: Niamh on December 25, 2010, 09:52:45 PM
"your staff-member"

You speak as though we all get our own personal member of staff?

Your independant staff members.

Your House Kurac, Salarr, etc... staff members.

You don't get your own personal member of staff. You have a few that are available to you no matter what role you are playing.

I have a feeling you knew this already.

No, I thought the game just had X amount of Staff who watch whats going on.  :o

Quote from: Ami on December 26, 2010, 02:13:27 PM

Quote from: Niamh on December 25, 2010, 09:52:45 PM
"your staff-member"

You speak as though we all get our own personal member of staff?

Every player has a group of Storytellers who are their clan staff. If you're unclanned, then the Unclanned staff are your staff members. You are free to send in reports, requests, and questions to the Unclanned staff in that case. If you're in a clan, then the relevant clan staff are your staffers.

So yes, every player has a "personal" member of staff (a few of them), though we staff for a lot of other players as well.

My later karma points are from having good communication with the staff while in a leader role. The first were from a leadership role and then happening to have been watched off and on for the next year or so.

An example of what I tend to think of as "good communication" is not treating the staff like people you have to slip things by on. My Byn leader Raul began his sergeantly career by stealing coins from the Byn account for his own personal use while things were revving up in the clan. He justified it to himself as a business expense, because there was no way he was going to sit in the Gaj waiting for recruits and contracts and -not- be drunk. In my report to the staff, I told them explicitly how much was taken and how there was an utter absence for an excuse from Raul himself. Luckily for the character, his fortunes turned around pretty damn quick and he paid back his theft and then some without making too much of a ripple. I think happily putting the judgment into the staff's hands about whether or not my dude would be caught and punished -- over something that strikes me as difficult to track staff-side -- fostered some trust between us.

Any IC details and OOC plans you send to the staff give them more tools to play with you, making it more fun and easy for all involved. I'm sure that's appreciated up to a point. This is especially true if your character is doing anything really "bad." I had a character that would scientifically study anatomy on coded bodies he would find in Meleth's Circle. Now, in a city atmosphere where cannibalism was implied, maybe seeing some guy drag away a body isn't so strange. But I left that up to any PCs that would stumble across me to decide. And when it came to NPCs, I made sure the staff were aware of what my guy was doing in public and private, and why. They're like the DMs of our world, so you have to give them the facts and let them judge. Overall, I've enjoyed having things "kept real," even when it's been detrimental to my PCs.

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 02:00:43 AMAs for the disruptive powers, I get that, but we're not talking about sorcerers and from what I understand drovians are much weaker than ruks and have less griefing potential.

I want to correct a fundamental assumption you've made here that I think is incorrect.  ALL magickers have AMAZING potential to WTFPWN just about anything that gets in their way.

They come with some spells that will help them survive and no spells too dramatic that would encourage a newbie to magickers to do something too extreme with their brand-spanking new magicker character because they've never played one before and don't know their own limitations.  The others... well, they all have their quirks and their abilities that shouldn't be discussed, and they're all cool and not really over-powered compared to the other two.  I just think that a true newbie to magickers would learn more by playing a rukkian or vivaduan, preferably a gemmed one.

Don't take this as gospel, but I also think the staff would really prefer someone play a rukkian or vivaduan before playing anything of higher karma, simply a trust issue thing.

Quote from: spicemustflow on December 25, 2010, 02:46:26 AMNo, I simply dislike forcing people to play though the characters they don't enjoy just so they could learn the system. If we were talking about  karma destroyers of souls I'd understand.

What if a new player to the game doesn't like playing anything but magickers and in every other game they've played they've had the option?  Should this person be allowed to play a magicker simply because they shouldn't be forced to play an (insert mundane guild here) to learn the game first?

Rukkian and Vivaduan come with less preponderance to chaos when new, giving someone the opportunity to prove they're trustworthy to the staff AND a chance to learn before they get too cocky with their uber-scary-mage-thing character.  Also gives them a chance to learn what is appropriate while learning how to play one.

That's also, kinda, the point.  The higher-up the karma tree you go, the more potential for unrealistic things to be done.  I'd be willing to be a LOT that if you prove to staff you can play a Vivaduan then you'll be SO much more likely to get any higher-karma magicker through on a special-application, especially if you communicate with staff through updates while playing your Vivaduan, AND you'll be a lot more likely to get yourself the karma too, to get you closer to playing one without a special application.

I admitted I may be out of my depth discussing this.

Quote from: Marshmellow on December 27, 2010, 04:30:59 AM
What if a new player to the game doesn't like playing anything but magickers and in every other game they've played they've had the option?  Should this person be allowed to play a magicker simply because they shouldn't be forced to play an (insert mundane guild here) to learn the game first?

I thought that the difference between a mundane and any kind of mage is much greater than that between the mages of different kinds.

Well... I'd say that's arguable, actually.  All of the magicker karma classes have some pretty obnoxious things they can do once they get moving (combat vivaduans are just about the scariest thing out there, if you ask me).  Still, out the gate, I'd say the five higher-karma magickers get can get obnoxious when played irresponsibly much quicker.

I just really think everyone should learn to play a magicker responsibly when they start learning how to play a magicker.  This is best done when playing one that those in the know won't worry about too much. ;)  Also, playing a Vivaduan or Rukkian means (when you play a gemmed) that the newbie is more likely to have same-element teachers that can help on both an OOC and an IC level.

Pretty much everything Marshmellow said....

Karma's there for a reason, folks. ;)

Quote from: Qzzrbl on December 27, 2010, 06:42:15 AM
Pretty much everything Marshmellow said....

Karma's there for a reason, folks. ;)

All Magickers can roflstomp. end of story. Some just take a bit more finesse then the others. i think that's the best way to say it.

Quote from: Fredd on December 27, 2010, 11:07:12 AM
All Magickers can roflstomp. end of story. Some just take a bit more finesse then the others.

Long ago, I had a ranger with two friends: a second ranger and a warrior. We always joked about how ridiculous the warrior was in combat, feeling quite safe in the wilderness as a group.

One day, a hooded figure came into our camp with startling speed. We all turned to face the intruder, but, in a flash, our uber-warrior friend was a smoldering carcass.

My point? A rogue magicker is -way- more frightening than a rogue mekillot.

If someone comes here and wants to play a 'gicker, having a preference for magickal characters from other MUDs, I think it's even /more/ important that they're asked to go through a few mundane characters (and get noticed and get karma) before they're handed their first vivudian/rukkian. Simply because Armageddon is not high fantasy, or high magic, and their 'experience' at playing magickal roles is actually most likely to be a detriment to the feel that elementalists and magick in Zalanthas possess.

When it comes down to it, and this is an uncomfortable truth: it doesn't matter what guilds you want to play. Karma's around to ensure that everyone with less karma gets a fair go at it, so that the game world is kept in balance by ensuring those in it with particular abilities are trusted to possess those abilities and not be a detriment to those who play characters without those abilities.

If you want to have a shot at a particular guild/race, use those paths available to you (reports, special applications, owning face IC) and prove to the staff that you're not going to ruin someone else's fun when you step into a 'gicker's shoes.

I way, way prefer forms of fantasy entertainment in which magic is very rare and very powerful. When every individual who is not mentally handicapped at puberty age or over can cast every colorful weak little spell in the book it ceases to excite my interest, unless I'm in the mood for watching lots of pretty colors explode at random.

I've gotten a personality idea for a rukkian magicker i want one day on my way to that elkrosian i want so bad.... oh my god it excites me just thinking about it. love creating weird and unique personalities.

that story about the uber-warrior scares me. [this section edited by Nyr] i could ask if running in the middle of a RP conversation with someone who obviously intends to end your life is wrong, but i don't think it is---- note the word obvious, and the fact that my character is not an idiot, wishes to live and can run when they take a mind to.

Quote from: Cindy42 on December 29, 2010, 12:26:46 PM
I way, way prefer forms of fantasy entertainment in which magic is very rare and very powerful. When every individual who is not mentally handicapped at puberty age or over can cast every colorful weak little spell in the book it ceases to excite my interest, unless I'm in the mood for watching lots of pretty colors explode at random.

I've gotten a personality idea for a rukkian magicker i want one day on my way to that elkrosian i want so bad.... oh my god it excites me just thinking about it. love creating weird and unique personalities.

that story about the uber-warrior scares me.  [this section edited by Nyr]  i could ask if running in the middle of a RP conversation with someone who obviously intends to end your life is wrong, but i don't think it is---- note the word obvious, and the fact that my character is not an idiot, wishes to live and can run when they take a mind to.

It's very possible that said magicker was deliberately stalling your execution for the very purpose of allowing you to either a) get some entertainment out of your impending character death, b) hope that you would play-along and role-play the scene out instead of "flee, flee, flee, flee" spam away or c) intentionally giving you the chance to get away by not being "twinky" and making it codedly impossible through their foul magickz.

Having said that, Staff has pointed out in the past that "emotes do not equal role-play."  Don't feel too bad about taking to your heels during the middle of a scene.  On one level, that just makes it all the better.  The magicker could possibly have been thinking "Yes, now,  I shall prove myself by toying with my prey.  Leading them on, letting them thi-....They ran off.  They're not supposed to do that..I wasn't done gloating yet!" and there by giving their character something to remember and themselves a (hopefully) good laugh.

As you pointed out, your character has a vested interest in living.  If their potentially deadly enemy gives them an out, well..by all means, take it, if that is what your character would do.

It's also possible too that taking off running suddenly is what makes the magicker decide to kill your character instead of whatever they had in mind in the first place. Something else to keep in mind.

Quote from: Cindy42 on December 29, 2010, 12:26:46 PM
I way, way prefer forms of fantasy entertainment in which magic is very rare and very powerful. When every individual who is not mentally handicapped at puberty age or over can cast every colorful weak little spell in the book it ceases to excite my interest, unless I'm in the mood for watching lots of pretty colors explode at random.

I've gotten a personality idea for a rukkian magicker i want one day on my way to that elkrosian i want so bad.... oh my god it excites me just thinking about it. love creating weird and unique personalities.

that story about the uber-warrior scares me. [this section edited by Nyr] i could ask if running in the middle of a RP conversation with someone who obviously intends to end your life is wrong, but i don't think it is---- note the word obvious, and the fact that my character is not an idiot, wishes to live and can run when they take a mind to.

Quote from: jhunter on December 29, 2010, 03:34:57 PM
It's also possible too that taking off running suddenly is what makes the magicker decide to kill your character instead of whatever they had in mind in the first place. Something else to keep in mind.

First: eep. I'm sorry for typing anything I shouldn't have; I don't remember what it was to be honest.

Also: yeah the mother chased me. I hid in the room (code) next to the one he ran through and I could see that he ran past me. Scared the absolute hell out of me.

And the length of the conversation we had... I really do believe he was giving me an opportunity to act/say stuff beforehand. It was a pretty long conversation before I took to my heels.

And actually... I wonder if this is frowned upon or something, due to the do-what-you-can-to-survive nature of zalanthas, but I override that rule with one other rule, what my character would do. One of my characters wasn't... the smartest person alive, mentally and emotionally messed up, and I allowed her to die the way I thought she would have died, when the opportunity came and anyone with her mental handicaps wouldn't have recognized an opportunity to escape.

This character was different and i roleplayed her accordingly. I thought; okay, what would (insert character name) do? And while I did want to see what he would do, I wasn't playing me, personally, you know? Even though there are some interesting-ass ways to die in this game. Ooh boy are there.

Heh, this all happened over a year ago, right?

Quote from: lordcooper on December 31, 2010, 01:03:58 PM
Heh, this all happened over a year ago, right?

:(

i'm eventually gonna get banned, aren't I? *sobs*

i thought it was vague enough to go under the radar.

the idea is, does staying in character trumph the universal rule that everyone in zalanthas does what they must to survive?

i burn for my elkrosian. which i might never get; that'd be okay honestly.

does anyone have a favorite type of magicker?

Please keep all replies on topic.

Thank you!

As Niahm said, please keep it on topic.
They'll lock it up, if we don't.


When in doubt, reread the O.P.

To get karma, you need staff's attention. To get staff's attention you can't go wrong with one or some mixture of the following: starting plots, playing sponsored roles, playing karma roles responsibly, sending reports.

Starting plots ensures your PC will get mentioned in other people's reports.
Playing sponsored roles keeps you responsible for filling the role you apped into, which also requires updating staff regularly.
Playing karma roles responsibly proves you're ready to handle higher karma.
Sending reports keeps staff in the know about what your PC is doing.

On the flip-side, there are things you can do that will ensure you won't get as noticed, or will get negative attention.

Playing loners can be fun, but there's not as much to work with when it comes to starting plots. You may be able to participate in some though.
Playing karma roles irresponsibly (making a green skinned mul that gets angry and smashes everything, treating magick like it's no big deal) will probably be bad.
A lot of players don't send reports, but I encourage new players that ask about reports to send them every two weeks or every month, at least, so that staff know that they're involved, and what they're involved in.

I was wondering for a while why mindbenders needed the maximum amount of karma... i don't remember exactly if its that much but they were way so high on the list. it might be pop culture but i kind of see magickers as more complicated than a killer psychic; that and the fact that, unless you're roleplaying a mindbender who is visibly troubled (healthwise or otherwise) by their powers, in a world where they know they need to keep it a secret, I don't understand the high level of needed karma to play.

unless

1) mindbenders trump magickers

or

2) the staff sees players with unshakable death sentences as needing to be way more responsible than half-tolerated magickers.

are they statistically rarer also? that might help explain it.

Mindbenders are RARE and they can get into your mind.

Both reasons for them to be over 9000 karma.

Psionics is higher karma because the staff has determined that there is a greater responsibility involved than playing your average rukkian. Any explanation more detailed than that, is not allowed here on this forum. These higher-karma things tend to be mysterious for a reason.

Quote from: Lizzie on December 31, 2010, 08:37:52 PM
Psionics is higher karma because the staff has determined that there is a greater responsibility involved than playing your average rukkian. Any explanation more detailed than that, is not allowed here on this forum. These higher-karma things tend to be mysterious for a reason.

is it normal for the mysteriousness of karma-required players to excite me IG?

it really does though. zalanthas holds some wonders. high-end and low-end wonders alike, which is why i play this game :)

Quote from: Cindy42 on December 31, 2010, 08:46:38 PM

Quote from: Lizzie on December 31, 2010, 08:37:52 PM
Psionics is higher karma because the staff has determined that there is a greater responsibility involved than playing your average rukkian. Any explanation more detailed than that, is not allowed here on this forum. These higher-karma things tend to be mysterious for a reason.

is it normal for the mysteriousness of karma-required players to excite me IG?

it really does though. zalanthas holds some wonders. high-end and low-end wonders alike, which is why i play this game :)

..I miss being a newbie, sometimes.

But then, I'm glad there are still somethings left that I don't know about.

Quote from: Cindy42 on December 31, 2010, 08:46:38 PMis it normal for the mysteriousness of karma-required players to excite me IG?

it really does though. zalanthas holds some wonders. high-end and low-end wonders alike, which is why i play this game :)

Discovering the unknown is exciting for many people.  Also, you don't have to play those sorts of characters to learn about them.  There are some people that have a good reason to know things about magickers, so get involved in those sorts of groups.

The 8 karma roles are supposed to be rare because they can throw the game off balance when there is too many of them. I personally would prefer if they are special app ONLY, even to people with 8 karma.

Quote from: Pale Horse on December 31, 2010, 09:28:16 PM

Quote from: Cindy42 on December 31, 2010, 08:46:38 PM

Quote from: Lizzie on December 31, 2010, 08:37:52 PM
Psionics is higher karma because the staff has determined that there is a greater responsibility involved than playing your average rukkian. Any explanation more detailed than that, is not allowed here on this forum. These higher-karma things tend to be mysterious for a reason.

is it normal for the mysteriousness of karma-required players to excite me IG?

it really does though. zalanthas holds some wonders. high-end and low-end wonders alike, which is why i play this game :)

..I miss being a newbie, sometimes.

But then, I'm glad there are still somethings left that I don't know about.

not really a newbie... just easy to mesmerize, easy to entertain. magicker comes into the room and my eyes are glued to him or her.

ugh... i'm attempting something one would call dynamic character change. i've never actually lived long enough to try it; but since i despise leadership roles, i'm hoping to make my way into the realm of being qualified to play an elkrosian a long time from now. in terms of the quality of my play. i think i'm starting to get much better at acting. magickers are feared and hated; wouldn't help if they were terrible roleplayers too.

when is one no longer considered a newbie? i only feel like i've gotten something near good at this time a few months ago, in terms of responsibility and all that sandwich.

Quote from: Cindy42 on January 01, 2011, 07:10:59 PM

Quote from: Pale Horse on December 31, 2010, 09:28:16 PM

Quote from: Cindy42 on December 31, 2010, 08:46:38 PM

Quote from: Lizzie on December 31, 2010, 08:37:52 PM
Psionics is higher karma because the staff has determined that there is a greater responsibility involved than playing your average rukkian. Any explanation more detailed than that, is not allowed here on this forum. These higher-karma things tend to be mysterious for a reason.

is it normal for the mysteriousness of karma-required players to excite me IG?

it really does though. zalanthas holds some wonders. high-end and low-end wonders alike, which is why i play this game :)

..I miss being a newbie, sometimes.

But then, I'm glad there are still somethings left that I don't know about.

not really a newbie... just easy to mesmerize, easy to entertain. magicker comes into the room and my eyes are glued to him or her.

ugh... i'm attempting something one would call dynamic character change. i've never actually lived long enough to try it; but since i despise leadership roles, i'm hoping to make my way into the realm of being qualified to play an elkrosian a long time from now. in terms of the quality of my play. i think i'm starting to get much better at acting. magickers are feared and hated; wouldn't help if they were terrible roleplayers too.

when is one no longer considered a newbie? i only feel like i've gotten something near good at this time a few months ago, in terms of responsibility and all that sandwich.

I've been playing for ten years.  I still feel like a newbie, in some things.

Quote from: Pale Horse on January 01, 2011, 07:17:12 PM

Quote from: Cindy42 on January 01, 2011, 07:10:59 PM

Quote from: Pale Horse on December 31, 2010, 09:28:16 PM

Quote from: Cindy42 on December 31, 2010, 08:46:38 PM

Quote from: Lizzie on December 31, 2010, 08:37:52 PM
Psionics is higher karma because the staff has determined that there is a greater responsibility involved than playing your average rukkian. Any explanation more detailed than that, is not allowed here on this forum. These higher-karma things tend to be mysterious for a reason.

is it normal for the mysteriousness of karma-required players to excite me IG?

it really does though. zalanthas holds some wonders. high-end and low-end wonders alike, which is why i play this game :)

..I miss being a newbie, sometimes.

But then, I'm glad there are still somethings left that I don't know about.

not really a newbie... just easy to mesmerize, easy to entertain. magicker comes into the room and my eyes are glued to him or her.

ugh... i'm attempting something one would call dynamic character change. i've never actually lived long enough to try it; but since i despise leadership roles, i'm hoping to make my way into the realm of being qualified to play an elkrosian a long time from now. in terms of the quality of my play. i think i'm starting to get much better at acting. magickers are feared and hated; wouldn't help if they were terrible roleplayers too.

when is one no longer considered a newbie? i only feel like i've gotten something near good at this time a few months ago, in terms of responsibility and all that sandwich.

I've been playing for ten years.  I still feel like a newbie, in some things.

you're... probably and are way better at the game than i am, then.

i had to ask what crotch rot was a few days ago on GDB. not IG, tho; i knew that'd be out of character. if nothing else, the unwashed masses of any given civilization know about their own sexually transmitted diseases.

been coming here for a bit over three years, although i think i've been absent for a grand total of a year in that time in terms of having an active character in the game that i keep logging in to play. two years then? although i think with that game, the time in which to think about one's noobness and how to handle interacting in the world differently gets improved even if you're not playing.

about a fourth or fifth of the time, depending on my IG environment and the people around, i don't have a clue what i'm doing or should be doing. i only know tuluk like the back of my hand, and sometimes i still get lost on my way to the Gaj. i'm bad at learning texted environs.

Since this thread keeps going off-topic, I am locking it.