Karma rate

[Zoltan]

I enjoyed playing my gemmers, even the one that OOCly wasn't meant to be gemmed. I never felt like I had to "muscle through" the role or anything like that. The characters around me made it extremely fun. That's what it comes down to for me. I'm an enormous Byn fanboy, but I have had un-fun experiences in the Byn. It wasn't the clan structure, or the role of Bynner #1375 that made it suck, it was other players (though even then it was far from unbearable).

I'll agree that the gemmed role may be a little more confining nowadays than what it once was, and the gem itself may or may not be nothing more than a big bulls-eye. I would still recommend it as a beginner's introduction to magick, but fuck it, do what you want. You can name any one role in the game and -someone- will hate on it. Validly, too. I've played rogue magicker roles before, enjoyed it for what it was, and then found it to not be as nuanced as my best play gemmed in the city. Still, I have rogue magicker concepts thought up, as well as gemmed concepts. They're about even on my scale.

[Nyr]

Nyr presents:  Real players of genius.  (Real players of genius!)

Today, we salute you, Mr. (or Ms, or Mrs.) "I've-got-to-protect-the-playerbase-from-the-friendly-and-helpful-suggestions-of-staff" person.  (Mr. or Ms. or Mrs. Protector!!)

I would go farther with this parody, but I think the point is clear.  Don't dice semantics with staff that are trying to be helpful; it makes you look a lot less like you're trying to help players and a lot more like you're just giving staff the finger.

[Marshmellow]

X-D, I don't feel like reading back, but I don't recall saying anything directly to you until I addressed you in my last post.  Whether I am on staff or not, though, I am not posting as staff.  The post I responded to just seemed like you were saying that since you had a bad experience in a clan, or because you have difficulty with life in a clan, that people shouldn't play magickers in a clan, specifically Oash, the only clan available to gemmers.  You were so violently opposed to it, in recounting your anecdote, that it appeared you were recommending that people not do what was recommended.  I think that's what people mentioned, the negativity.  Your anecdote, and Amanda's (which I won't mention further as I believe it contains too much IC information, like a couple others here), can do nothing but push people away from these clans.  How is that a good thing?

[X-D]

Violently? What posts were you reading anyway? My anecdote...did I give a personal example, no, I did not, the statement of having had a PC in the clan is less then anecdotal statement. No story was told, no account given.

So, Nyr,  What your saying is, Arguing with staff or simply pointing out questionable wording makes you look like your giving staff the finger?


That is mighty mature of you, and so was the wording of your post.  Kudos to you. [sarcasm]

BTW Semantics:  a. the study of meaning.

Maybe use a word you actually know the meaning of next time, Or maybe you really were saying I do not know the meanings of words used such as "Should" "Encouraged"?

But hey, we now know that any contrary opinion posted by a player against staff or desire of a player for a staffer to clarify a statement is tantamount to the bird in Nyrs book.

[Lizzie]

XD for president! Also, I liked Nyr's song. It makes me want to drink a beer.

[Rhyden]

Despite the two-sided tension, I think these kind of threads can still have their uses.

What's most important when dealing with a thread and issue like this is to look at it from a completely unbiased, and neutral angle. I'm trying my best to do that very thing, so bear with me here. One side is saying that playing an Oashi gemmed is not very enjoyable. One side is saying that clans are great for gemmers, especially new magickers, but Oash is apparently the only clan available.

Can we find a compromise? Is there any middle ground? Where ever did the CAM (Council of Allanaki Mages) go? Ok that's slightly off-topic, but seriously, maybe someone (like maybe a current gemmer PC) should try to reconstruct CAM, or something similar? Hold on, that might create tension, conflict, corruption, and betrayal in game, instead of on the GDB. Oops.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Apropos of nothing...

If Oash ain't for you, and you're stuck as a gemmer, you can always try and sidle up to a templar. Sure, they can whip your skin off if you so much as look at them wrong, but if you're loyal (or appear loyal), competent, and can stay alive for more than a few weeks, there's no reason they wouldn't use you. You might even be able to talk them into forking over some 'sid. I've had working with relationships with templars as a gemmer before. As long as you don't try and get all buddy-buddy with one that likes to kick gemmers in the nuts just for the crime of being gemmers, it can be a very fun role, and enriching for both players in general.

If that still doesn't appeal to you, you can always make your services available to independents, unaffiliated commoners, or other clans. It's doubtful that they'll want anything to do with you, but every once in a while you might encounter somebody who needs something done and who doesn't care how it gets down. And then it's time to get your magick on. You can always work under the table.

[Nyr]

XD for president! Also, I liked Nyr's song. It makes me want to drink a beer.

I'm drinking some sort of alcoholic beverage now.

X-D knows I love him.

As for karma, a few really simple guidelines to get your karma adjusted in one direction or the other:

Play what you want to play within the scope of documentation.
Play it well.
Tell staff about what you are playing.
Interact with other players.

Four steps.  Follow them all.  Why?

1.  You will be playing what you want to play so you will enjoy it.
2.  You will be striving for excellence in what you play, so you will feel good about it.
3.  You will get feedback from staff because you are reporting to us, and we have to give you feedback--seriously, we have to at least resolve the request.
4.  You will be showing off your awesomeness to other players.  If you're good, you will get kudos.  If you are horrible and twinkish, you will get a player complaint.  If you are somewhere in the middle but interacting with other players, you will at the very least MAYBE be in someone's report to some clan somewhere.  You will get noticed.

[Lizzie]

Yeah I think the problem with trying a gemmer with your first karma character, is your options are extremely limited. You can try to go rogue with the gem, which is very difficult - but possible. The enjoyment factor would depend heavily on how much you enjoy playing something despised AND criminal, rather than merely despised.

Another option is to play a human gemmer and hope there's an Oashi noble around interested in hiring your character. This is not difficult, but if one were to believe the accounts of the few people who have actually played one and posted here, also not particularly enjoyable.

Another option is to play a run of the mill gemmer, non-Oash, any race you have karma for, and not a rogue. The enjoyment factor would be based then, on how much you enjoy playing something despised, but not necessarily criminal by default.

So in short, IF you were to go the gemmed route, the option that would be *most likely* to give you enjoyment, would be a non-Oashi, either city-based law-abiding known gemmer, or the more difficult and more risky gemmed rogue.

Oash certainly is an option. Or at least, it is when there is an active noble PC avaible to clan you. And if that active noble PC takes an interest in his gemmed mages, it can even be enjoyable and chock full of fun RP. However, if the noble PC doesn't take an interest in his gemmed mages, OR if there is no active Oash noble PC, or if that PC gets killed/stored/retired/disappears and doesn't tell staff so they don't know he needs to be replaced for 6 months - then you're SOL with a gemmed Oashi with nothing to do and no one to do it for, and you're stuck continuing to be a gemmed Oashi with nothing to do and no one to do it for, until such time as someone in the clan lets you go, gives you something to do, or kills you.

[Nyr]

But because I love him, I'll explain:

So, Nyr,  What your saying is, Arguing with staff or simply pointing out questionable wording makes you look like your giving staff the finger?

No, I am saying that treating staff in a condescending manner is tantamount to giving staff the finger.

BTW Semantics:  a. the study of meaning.

Maybe use a word you actually know the meaning of next time, Or maybe you really were saying I do not know the meanings of words used such as "Should" "Encouraged"?

But hey, we now know that any contrary opinion posted by a player against staff or desire of a player for a staffer to clarify a statement is tantamount to the bird in Nyrs book.

giving staff the finger, by X-D

Exhibit A.

I always expect players to chime in with their opinions and even defend them vociferously.  I don't expect them to be dicks about it.  Don't be a dick about your opinion.  Just share it and speak from a position of respect towards the other posters.  I acknowledge that my responses to this sort of behavior are not the most respectful and kind words that I have ever given, but I do not respond well to people that treat staff in a condescending "holier than thou" manner.  Reconsider the way you talk to other players (and especially staffers) and I'll reconsider the way I respond to players that do not treat staffers in a respectful manner.

Respectfully,

Nyr

(who really does love you and everyone else)

[X-D]

Oh, I freely admit that the quoted post was me giving the finger, I was replying in kind after all. So...at least I was not giving the -entire- staff the finger.

As to the rest...Eh, I don't happen to see it that way, try to think of it more as me trying to be polite while still arguing a position, not so much condescending.  I'm pretty sure this has been the largest and most complete derail I've been involved in to date.

Oh, karma rate...Yup, join clans, it is fun and likely to get some karma dropped on you in short order, assuming you do all the stuff everybody else says.

[Kiara]

Try tribal roles also. They're fun.

[Decameron]

Despite the two-sided tension, I think these kind of threads can still have their uses.

Can we find a compromise? Is there any middle ground? Where ever did the CAM (Council of Allanaki Mages) go?

Disbanded (amongst other things) and deemed criminal. I don't feel bad about posting that here, because it was done in a very public forum (well over a year ago), and would be on the website if certain areas were updated to reflect certain decisions.

[Old Kank]

Old Kank, you know I cannot say what I did not like about a clan on the GDB. No matter what I say on the matter it would be considered badmouthing a clan and is at the very least frowned upon on the GDB. Also, to clarify what anybody else might think. I don't think Oash is a bad clan in any way. I DO on the other had see it as a Niche role if you are playing a gemmed in Oash and something a majority of people might not like.

X-D, I wasn't expecting you to badmouth a clan.  You know the circumstances, not me, and if you can't talk about it, that's fine, but I've never seen the staff take offense at players objectively discussing what's right or wrong with the game.  I was just curious since you seem to have strong feelings on the matter, and you've already said it wasn't the leadership or the clan members.

I've played in Oash on a couple occasions (within the last year, even), and it's never seemed to be any better or worse than any of the other noble house clans out there.  The only real difference I've noticed is that House Oash hires the gemmed.

[Synthesis]

X-D's real beef with Oash is that they only hire humans, and he only plays dwarves and d-elves, because they're uber.

[FantasyWriter]

X-D's real beef with Oash is that they only hire humans, and he only plays dwarves and d-elves, because they're uber.

I had a gemmed dwarf in Oash once... for a whole hour and fifteen minutes before the OTHER noble PC logged in an kicked my ass to the curb... it was hilarious.

[Rhyden]

Despite the two-sided tension, I think these kind of threads can still have their uses.

Can we find a compromise? Is there any middle ground? Where ever did the CAM (Council of Allanaki Mages) go?

Disbanded (amongst other things) and deemed criminal. I don't feel bad about posting that here, because it was done in a very public forum (well over a year ago), and would be on the website if certain areas were updated to reflect certain decisions.

Yeah, I know. My point being, it was probably a bad decision for future gemmers, even if the outcome was realistic.

I think a single temple for all the gemmed to do whatever sekrit stuff they do and hang out in would be cool. Maybe something to think about for Arm Reborn, if it can't ever be established in the current version.

[Sephiroto]

This thread was about karma award rates.  For discussion about magicker classes and temples, please start another post.

[spacewars]

This thread was about karma award rates.  For discussion about magicker classes and temples, please start another post.

I concur

[Lizzie]

Yes, it was about that, 3 pages and 6 days ago.

[mansa]

I'll sell my account, fifty bucks. I got karma.

[Feco]

Back on topic...

I've sort of picked up on something when it comes to Karma by reading through posts, and interacting with others in the community... there doesn't really seem to be a "rate" at all.  WHEN you get it seems to be based on luck, but hopefully, HOW MUCH you get in the longrun may be based on much nicer things such as consistency, helpfulness, playing roles within their context, and enhancing the IG environment.

As an example, I have a single friend (who will rename unnamed) who I introduced to arm ~2 months ago, and I'm hoping he can develop into a functional member of our society. However, despite my protests, he insists on telling me about everything he does IG, in at least a relatively vague fashion.  He has PKed plenty of characters simply because he could recognize they were new, or because he thought it would be fun [I guess I have no right to dictate to someone else what is good roleplay vs bad roleplay, but for the record, this is all just mindless hack & slash stuff), used OOC channel to convey "fuck you"s when things go bad for his character, ignored concepts such as day/night when it comes to working, and the list goes on and on.  He was telling me not long ago that he was happy, because he (in his words) did a nice thing for the first time ever, and helped a newbie figure things out.  He then informed me he was happy because he had received a note from staff which informed him he had been recognized for this action.  Upon the death of his character recently (which I keep telling him to STOP telling people about) he discovered he received Karma. 

If I ever witness IG, or are the victim of one of his OOC "Fuck you"s or something, I'll file a complaint.... But really, I already know someone wants to make this an argument about me "idly participating" in this sort of activity by not doing anything -- I direct him to the rules and tell him it isn't cool.  What would you do?

I also remember reading another post SOMEWHERE here (someone with search-fu can help me) where a staff member actually posted a particularly nefarious player's Account Notes, who despite all of the terrible things he had done, had received plenty of Karma.

I'm sure I'm not alone when I say, in approaching 6 months playing what I consider to be fairly consistent, at least realistically played roles in arm, I haven't seen my first point, and have had a special application rejected based on playtime, rather than how well the app was written.  Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining -- please, keep reading.  I know that someday, I'll see some Karma, and someday I'll get to try, and hopefully enjoy Karma roles.  This is not a goal for me, because I enjoy the roles I play, and I'm sure someday I'll get to play some other, restricted, role that interest me.

The moral of my post?  Don't worry about Karma.  EVERYONE seems to get it, it's just a matter of when.  Sometimes, players who I'm sure most of us agree don't really deserve these roles over others, will get access first, and sometimes they won't.  In the long run, however, it benefits you as a player to play consistently, and involve staff.  Karma is not an end goal, like staff has said on many occasions -- but I also realize the reality that there are some roles people just really want to play.  Be a regular player, play consistent characters, and eventually, everyone is recognized and awarded Karma roles/

[Decameron]

I also remember reading another post SOMEWHERE here (someone with search-fu can help me) where a staff member actually posted a particularly nefarious player's Account Notes, who despite all of the terrible things he had done, had received plenty of Karma.

I believe that staff member's post was actually regarding his own account notes, as proof that despite his previous errors, he still was accepted as staff. I do not believe he posted his karma rate, per say, but then again I don't believe there's any correlation between the amount of karma a person has and their acceptance into staff. Just pointing out the difference, because if you do terrible (i.e. abusing the code,etc) things, and do them consistently, my perception of the matter has been that staff can and will take your karma away from you.

Edited to clarify on 'terrible things', since this is Arm and we all do 'terrible things'.

[Nyr]

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,34331.msg424677.html#msg424677

[Talia]

I am uncomfortable with players sharing specific details about their own karma level, what they can play, what they have played, etc. I am way beyond uncomfortable with players sharing specific details about other players' karma levels, what they can play, what they have played, etc. Regardless of what a specific player has told you about their playing and karma and so on, you don't have the whole story behind things, because you're not on staff and not involved with that particular situation.

So, just my personal opinion as one staffer, I would prefer that players not talk specifics about their karma or someone else's. I don't think it's beneficial, and I do believe that it's harmful.