Karma rate

[Feco]

Sorry,

I was trying to come to a conclusion based on observations.  I've simply concluded that Karma was never meant to be a "fair" system based on "Karma Rate" -- it's only meant to keep roles which could be destructive to the rest of the game out of hands of those incapable of handling them, based on observations made by the (human) staff member, and not by some system of time vs. reward.  I was trying to convey that the roles aren't Karma roles because anyone wants to keep them from being played, they are Karma roles because they may be hard to play without ruining others experiences.

I didn't intent to be malicious.  If anything, I was trying to be hopeful?  Something like that.

I probably could have summed that up without details.  Woops?  

EDIT:  If you think it's really that destructive, I'll go ahead and wipe the post or someone else can.  Entirely up to you... My view has been summed up by this post just fine.

[Twilight]

Special App a role that fleshes out part of the IC world that is not normally present.

To give an example in the vein of the recent derail, at one point before the current special application process, I came up with a character idea and worked it out with the appropriate Immortals.  Despite not having the karma for the guild, I was allowed a gemmed magicker (my first gemmed) that was destined (from application) to work for Tor.  Yes, gemmed Tor.  Not that he was the first gemmed that Tor played with.  Previously, there was Sparky the mul, and that other elkrosian right after they were implemented.  But they died really, really fast.

Not that he really ever did anything.  Or really saw Tor nobles that much.  But it was fun.

Although I think that route is now permanently closed, think about a Spec App that fills out something similar, something not seen every day, but which would likely exist.  I think this will get you noticed more than generic first magicker special app #4747.

Oh, and go to APMs and buy the imms lots of booze.

[Talia]

No, Feco, I didn't mean that I think you were being malicious. I just wanted to make a general caution about discussing specifics of karma levels. Unfortunately, the conclusion a lot of players will come to when karma specifics are discussed is, "OMG it's unfair and the staff hates me and they suck!" It doesn't really matter that there might be a good intent behind discussing it, when karma examples are used, the beast of envy will inevitably raise its ugly head and horrendously bludgeon someone.

You're right, karma is primarily about making sure that roles which have the ability to really mess up the game don't get played by those who would mess the game up. IMO, no-karma human roles are where the majority of the fun happens in the game anyways, but I get that people want a chance to try out "special" roles.

[Mazy]

I'm having to fight back my beast of envy already!

This whole thread seems like it's either trying to teach a horse how to get the carrot on the stick or subtly vent frustration for not getting karma when we think we should.

I don't see any harm in your post, Feco. You were very civil. I would green with envy if I were you in that situation. I don't think you're complaining or trying to subtly "stick it to the man"; just realize that staff do have tools to help them get insight, and karma isn't handed out like candy.

Sometimes rewards are given for exceptional things, and sometimes taking time to help someone is exceptional. I'm actually enthused about new players getting karma. Heck, it might even promote growth and quell the urge for collecting chalton boots. Without fresh new players the game would die then everyone will embrace the mind rotting experience of WoW.

I'll admit that (and I have before) I'm not awesome. I have a myriad of flaws someone snooping me could point out. Yet I still can apply for any role I want through special application. Fair enough, huh? If I do good enough, I might even be allowed to make a similar role on my own later. Let me just continue to elaborate how I feel after reeling you with a wall of text:

Bias is present with any system of rewards. Fair is only a point of view and will inevitably shift depending on who or what is making the decision. I believe that even though you might not have the karma to make a certain type of character, it doesn't that the staff feel you cannot handle the role or simply suck. And chances are, if anyone does think of you that way, you've done something to deserve it. Also, the scarcity of muls and sorcs has been coded in for a reason. Could you imagine seeing over a hundred players on then half of them being sorcerers? I can, and it would be atrocious. People should actually be very wary of making karma roles. They are often more demanding, present unique challenges to your roleplay, and can sometimes drive you insane with loneliness. Without a doubt, people might jump into the role without thinking it through.

Others, however, would enter the restricted roles merely for the purpose of having the power to kill the Mazy noob by sneezing. ! When your objective shifts from roleplay to grief, branching, or skillmaxxing, the effect will be like ripples in still water, disrupting our environment. So, the ones who maintain the mud should have the all the power to say who does and doesn't get to make these roles at whim.  I feel from my experiences that the immortals do a great job, but ultimately, anyone who is not omnipotent cannot claim to be absolutely fair. If someone would quit from the despair of not getting karma, then they truly will never win at Armageddon. This MUD will make you laugh and cry then stay up late to do it some more. My best advice is to just have fun and not at the expense of others.

With that said, who doesn't feel like that chick from titanic in that famous scene when they are recognized as outstanding and given karma? I hope your thinking about the right scene, ANYWAYS... We all love the warm fuzzy feeling of karma. I'd lie if I said I didn't want s'more damn karma cookies. Do I deserve them? Yes. I deserve 8 for writing this post! Thankfully, I'm don't have access to the cookie jar. My positive reinforcement will just have to come from good notes, kudos, and the rewarding feeling from a scene well done.

[Feco]

I'm actually enthused about new players getting karma. Heck, it might even promote growth and quell the urge for collecting chalton boots. Without fresh new players the game would die then everyone will embrace the mind rotting experience of WoW.

There is a lot of truth to this quote.

Just sayin'.

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,34331.msg424677.html#msg424677

Thanks for that, by the way.  Woops on being mistaken about the content!

[shadeoux]

I seem to remember Templars being on that Karma chart somewhere a few years ago. Just noticed it's no longer there. Tee Hee

[Bogre]

I seem to remember Templars being on that Karma chart somewhere a few years ago. Just noticed it's no longer there. Tee Hee

Templars die faster than players get karma, hah.

[Zoan]

If Templars are dying young and gloriously, they're doing an awesome job. >_>

[IAmJacksOpinion]

I got my first point of karma after about, maybe, six months of play. I wanted to try something different, so I sent an email saying "I think I deserve karma." Kinda like asking for a raise. The imms just said, "Oh, yeah you've been playing a while, here have a point."

My next couple bumps came from special apping for a role, and they ended up leaving me with the karma to chose that role at will. It was never stated why, for the most part.

More bumps came from having characters that lived in clans and contributed.

There's not really a 'rate'. It's different for everyone. Most people who get karma, get it for being a good leader. And by good, we mean keeping the players actively occupied on an OOC level. They could've been terrible, dictator assholes using their peons as meat walls IG.

You don't even have to last long. I never last long. I have role ADD and want to try different stuff constantly. If I have a character that lives for 2 months, I've got my next 3 roles typed up in a word file already.

So, best ways to get noticed/ get positive notes / get karma:
-play in clan
-submit regular character reports (especially explaining a PK, etc)
-involve other PCs (If you're trying to play an indy merchant, try and contract all the hunter/gatherer work out and get other players involved on your master plan, for example)
-leadership roles (Though I never take them because I refuse to have an obligation to Armageddon.)

And, if all else fails, special app. It's common to jump to a role 5 points up the list from your CURRENT karma level. It's no guarantee that you'll always have the 10 karma tektolnes role available, but at least you'll get to have the experience for one character.




If you want to try a role, just special app. I've play

[jstorrie]

If Templars are dying young and gloriously, they're doing an awesome job. >_>

Unfortunately, like everyone else in Zalanthas they generally die to either getting bored, or getting dumb.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

I seem to remember Templars being on that Karma chart somewhere a few years ago. Smiley Just noticed it's no longer there. Tee Hee

? Templars has never been on that chart. Well, at least not in the last six years.

[Pale Horse]

I seem to remember Templars being on that Karma chart somewhere a few years ago. Smiley Just noticed it's no longer there. Tee Hee

? Templars has never been on that chart. Well, at least not in the last six years.

Count the number of slots for the races and guilds during character creation.

Then count up the number of guilds and races provided for on the web page.

There's still several unaccounted for slots.

[Archbaron]

Count the number of slots for the races and guilds during character creation.

Then count up the number of guilds and races provided for on the web page.

There's still several unaccounted for slots.

I have sat at the screen before and ogled at this, trying to figure it out. It's beautifully mysterious.

[Sephiroto]

How many are missing?  Most of the guilds, if not all, are templar guilds.  Most of the races are non-playable races.  Mantis, gith, halfling, etc.

[Archbaron]

How many are missing?  Most of the guilds, if not all, are templar guilds.  Most of the races are non-playable races.  Mantis, gith, halfling, etc.

I don't quite remember, but there are blocks in both the race selection and guild selection that elude me.

[HavokBlue]

Classes missing:  Lirathan Templar, Jihaen Templar, Templar
Races missing:  space vestric, space cowboy, and a replicant

[HavokBlue]

Classes missing:  Lirathan Templar, Jihaen Templar, Templar
Races missing:  space vestric, space cowboy, and a replicant

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,39203.0.html

[Bilanthri]

Hah...ahh yes. I remember that post.

I laughed...and then watched more Bebop.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Count the number of slots for the races and guilds during character creation.

Then count up the number of guilds and races provided for on the web page.

There's still several unaccounted for slots.

Yeah.... But what does that have to do with Karma? Templars, gith, mantis, etc were never on the karma tree. At least not in the last decade. That doesn't mean the imms can't allow you to select them. Ever special apped? They don't temporarily up your Karma to allow you to play the character you want. They just open up you account to that race or class.

[Pale Horse]

Count the number of slots for the races and guilds during character creation.

Then count up the number of guilds and races provided for on the web page.

There's still several unaccounted for slots.

Yeah.... But what does that have to do with Karma? Templars, gith, mantis, etc were never on the karma tree. At least not in the last decade. That doesn't mean the imms can't allow you to select them. Ever special apped? They don't temporarily up your Karma to allow you to play the character you want. They just open up you account to that race or class.

I'm aware they're not on the karma tree.

I've special app'd.

I got karma that way.

Even filling in the guild tree with a southern Templar guild and the two Tuluki Templar guilds, there is still one guild space empty and unaccounted for.

Filling in the racial options with halfling, mantis and gith still leaves three open spaces.

That is what I was speaking about, when I typed that.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

I gotcha. (And for the record, I've gotten karma that way a couple times also, but it's not standard practice).

I guess I was just confused because you quoted me there, and I don't see the two as being necessarily related.

[Pale Horse]

I gotcha. (And for the record, I've gotten karma that way a couple times also, but it's not standard practice).

I guess I was just confused because you quoted me there, and I don't see the two as being necessarily related.

I think I was just being lazy, there, and took your post along with theirs because it was easier than quoting, cutting, then posting just the part I wanted.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Kronibas]

One of the missing races is "Blackwing Desert Elf."

You could either pick to be a "Blacking" DElf or a regular DElf.

[Feco]

Sort of veering off topic, but would a missing guild and race be the ones used by staff Avatars?

I would have thought they would just put them in outside of normal processes, but I guess it wouldn't be out of the ordinary to have an "Immortal" race and guild when the game first started.

Very ridiculous speculation.

Space vestric is probably just as likely.

[Marshmellow]

No, we've seen staff avatars before and even assessed them when we were being sneaky.  They set themselves to all sorts of races.  They don't need one in character creation when setting up their primary staff character, from what I can see.  We have staff that are plants or halflings or (magicker IC creatures I'm not sure I should mention) or humans or gith or giants, etc etc etc.