Let's say your wandering around the wastelands and you see some guy whose day you might like to ruin. So you stalk him, corner him subdue him. And he immediately OOCs saying he was about to quit.
This happened and I just made an excuse and let the poor guy go, I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do with him and I didn't have any personal stake in killing him, and hadn't yet decided that I wanted to do it.
I also considered just wasting him right there, he'd be free to go to sleep or whatever all the same and hey, my character's just psychotic enough that I might do it.
What would you do though?
Give them the benefit of the doubt, always.
Only a newb would pull that to intentionally avoid negative consequences, and they'll eventually learn better.
What Syn said.
Ditto on the two previous posts.
Sometimes when you need to go you need to go. RL takes precedence over the game and if someone calls the RL card, the least a raider/near killer could do is give them the benefit of the doubt and let them go. Who knows, you might run into them again another day. Or perhaps your character might find even tastier prey.
Yeah, I pretty much agree with what everyone else said. Sometimes it's just bad timing. If they are some newb trying to do that to get out of dying, they will get nailed for it or learn better on their own.
Weighing in with everyone else. Give them the benefit of the doubt, even if you are suspicious. It might be exactly what you think it is, a ploy to keep their character alive, but it might genuinely be true.
Those who abuse the quit command to get out of sticky situations tend to get caught by or reported to, Staff, and dealt with.
In my experience, it's always been a good policy to inform the staff whenever you kill a PC.
Considering that this -could- have resulted in a PK, had the player not "played the RL card," I would recommend what everyone else has said - give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but ALSO e-mail your clan imm/unclan imm, to let them know that "so-and-so would have been my latest victim however his player had to log out."
That way if this is something he's doing intentionally to avoid conflict, the staff will know there's a trend. And if he isn't, and it was a one-time thing, they'll appreciate your giving them the heads up on your intentions.
Quote from: Synthesis on March 12, 2010, 04:20:19 PM
Give them the benefit of the doubt, always.
Only a newb would pull that to intentionally avoid negative consequences, and they'll eventually learn better.
Always give the benefit of the doubt. I once was in a quit area with my new character and someone logged in, then logged out a second later. I guess they either really didn't have time to log in to Arm, or they really didn't want to roleplay. :-\
Quote from: EvilRoeSlade on March 12, 2010, 04:17:30 PM
Let's say your wandering around the wastelands and you see some guy whose day you might like to ruin. So you stalk him, corner him subdue him. And he immediately OOCs saying he was about to quit.
With an attitude like this, it's no wonder a player, especially a new one, might be inclined to quit out. If you have the intentions of ruining their day, don't expect them to stick around. I think you should approach every player-to-player interaction with an open mind and attempt to offer something more than the mindset of "ruining someone's day". This isn't to say you can't raid, steal, kill, or torture someone you find out in the wastes, but I think you'll have a better chance of them sticking around if you approach the situation thinking "how can I create a fun rp scene between our two players, and potentially -make- both our days" instead of "trying to ruin their day."
This also applies if you have a character with considerable power and wish to grieve (ie, holding a player character captive for an hour of torture, etc) which usually isn't so much fun for both parties. I've seen many people use OOC tools for escaping the reality that is the game and in the end, it makes sense. If someone isn't having fun, then someone might just be logging out.
Heh. I've heard of some raiders taking so long that their victims actually dehydrated to death while they were flapping their gums.
I hope that was a true story, because it's fucking hilarious.
Quote from: Synthesis on March 13, 2010, 03:03:29 PM
Heh. I've heard of some raiders taking so long that their victims actually dehydrated to death while they were flapping their gums.
I hope that was a true story, because it's fucking hilarious.
Pacing back and forth, the man in the black leather mask says, in sirihish:
"Moving on to section 7, subsection 7A under Methods of Approved Travel, victim and persons related to, employed by, or in cohorts with victim, shall no longer travel the roadway hereby termed the "North Road" without express written permission by "Black Moon Raider Inc", unless said travel is in conjunction to a meeting demand made by the management of Black Moon Raider Inc, co-Wayed by at least two officers of said organization..."
The slender, wiry man says, in sirihish:
"So...thirsty..."
Blinking, as if distracted, the man in the black leather mask says, in sirihish:
"Please, we're only on page 3 of the raider-victim post-encounter agreement, and we
already covered "Pleas for Help, Food, and Water" under section 4, subsection 4A -- are you even listening?"
Quote from: Rhyden on March 13, 2010, 12:52:03 PMWith an attitude like this, it's no wonder a player, especially a new one, might be inclined to quit out. If you have the intentions of ruining their day, don't expect them to stick around. I think you should approach every player-to-player interaction with an open mind and attempt to offer something more than the mindset of "ruining someone's day". This isn't to say you can't raid, steal, kill, or torture someone you find out in the wastes, but I think you'll have a better chance of them sticking around if you approach the situation thinking "how can I create a fun rp scene between our two players, and potentially -make- both our days" instead of "trying to ruin their day."
This also applies if you have a character with considerable power and wish to grieve (ie, holding a player character captive for an hour of torture, etc) which usually isn't so much fun for both parties. I've seen many people use OOC tools for escaping the reality that is the game and in the end, it makes sense. If someone isn't having fun, then someone might just be logging out.
Please. I've been playing for seven years and I know what I'm doing. Usually when I raid people it takes about an hour of me explaining my demands, but if I want my character to choke a bitch that's my own damn business.
Don't choke the poor man! Just lightly asphyxiate him.
I want to be raided by LoD.
I want to play with LoD.
I want to raid LoD.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on March 25, 2010, 08:20:47 PM
I want to raid LoD.
That doesn't end well, trust me.
I say kill the guy and get it over with.
Quote from: Saellyn on April 07, 2010, 09:09:59 AM
I say kill the guy and get it over with.
This isn't a bad choice, really, if the intention was to kill the guy anyway.
You could also say "ooc: Ok, just hand over the gear and go."
LoD and I once raided Synth.
... I'd rather just kill him and take his gear.
Actually I wouldn't, but you don't know that.
I'm a cuddly gortok. Really!
These teeth are fake. Ish.
Strike first, strike hard, no mercy sir?
I saw this happen to someone recently (I was the raider, but I had "arrived" on the scene). And it I was really annoyed by it because it seemed twinkish.
However, a few months later, I was in an encounter and I really had to quit. I stayed and played it out and when things seemed okay I was like "ooc: I gotta run" then huffed it to the nearest city and quit. (Note: Would have been nice to quit right there and then :) ) But, had the person had more in store for me - I would have been raining on their parade.
My call - benefit of the doubt, but submit to staff for review. Because if they are doing repeatedly, that's the only way they will get caught.
If it is a situation where I don't want to take your life - I'll usually just OOC and say "I'll make it quick." and ask them for their coins, emote some badassness, then flee into the distance.
If it is a situation where I want to take your life - I'll just OOC and say "I'll make it quick." I am sure you know what happens next. :-*
What Gunnerblaster said. That's the ticket.
Quote from: Gunnerblaster on April 14, 2010, 10:41:33 PM
If it is a situation where I don't want to take your life - I'll usually just OOC and say "I'll make it quick." and ask them for their coins, emote some badassness, then flee into the distance.
If it is a situation where I want to take your life - I'll just OOC and say "I'll make it quick." I am sure you know what happens next. :-*
You have no idea whether you could actually get the kill done, or not. If you do this and you aren't successful you either a) put him on the hook for another 10-15 minutes, making him late for a RL engagement, b) make him suffer through 10-15 minutes of someone bitching at him or c) get to kill him when he goes linkdead because he -really- had to go.
In short, you're being a fucking dick.
Quote from: Synthesis on April 15, 2010, 08:53:06 PM
You have no idea whether you could actually get the kill done, or not. If you do this and you aren't successful you either a) put him on the hook for another 10-15 minutes, making him late for a RL engagement, b) make him suffer through 10-15 minutes of someone bitching at him or c) get to kill him when he goes linkdead because he -really- had to go.
In short, you're being a fucking dick.
Hm. Didn't think of it that way. I guess that's why we talk with others though, right? So we get mature responses that allow us to think "outside" of our boxes.
But, yeah. I didn't really go into specifics on the situations. It's something to definitely consider when faced with OOC urgency.
This is towards the playerbase, in-general:
Hypothetically speaking, if you were to get a PC that was wanted dead into somewhere enclosed and very locked - Instead of unlocking the door for them and letting them leave to quit when they OOC needing to log out for something, wouldn't it be a little reasonable to go ahead and try to kill them? Otherwise - They log back in later, blab about a situation in which you "attempted" to kill them, and basically ruin what should have been a completely and realistically "quiet" murder turning it into the hunt for the would-be "assassin". Of course, should something like letting the "targeted" PC leave for OOC reasons and then them returning and using their OOC escape as a means to spread word - This could be sufficiently handled in a Player Complaint to the Staff.
If the situation arises to where this same PC and yours met in, let's say, some dark alleyway where it is more then likely they could atleast successfully flee from you after the initial confrontation - And they were to OOC having to go - It is plausible to say that, assuming you've already made yourself an "enemy" to them, that they escaped into the alleyways and that both parties should roleplay accordingly.
Gonna go with Synthesis.
If someone really needs to quit, everything else goes out the window. Abusable? Sure. But that's internet etiquette.
If someone really needs to quit they should have the option. Plain and simple. Whether they're about to be raided or not.
I agree with Rogue. This is a problem when you can't quit anywhere. I've had many, many characters die because I had RL stuff going on and had to go link-dead for one reason or another.
As long as we can't quit-out anywhere, then if you are in game you take chances.
If you need to go so badly, then hand over the greb, I won't even complain about the lack of emotes.
I once had a dude run away from my dude when I was a new dude. So I had my dude beat the shit outta that dude. The staff sent my dude a private whisper and told me not to do that.
So since then I haven't done stuff like that to dudes. It's staff policy to stop this sort of thing from happening to dudes, so you shouldn't be doing it, dude.
Quote from: Is Friday on April 19, 2010, 01:00:15 AM
I once had a dude run away from my dude when I was a new dude. So I had my dude beat the shit outta that dude. The staff sent my dude a private whisper and told me not to do that.
So since then I haven't done stuff like that to dudes. It's staff policy to stop this sort of thing from happening to dudes, so you shouldn't be doing it, dude.
I'm lost... can you retype this all in english, minus dudes? Dude. :-\
Quote from: BlackMagic0 on April 19, 2010, 01:02:42 AM
Quote from: Is Friday on April 19, 2010, 01:00:15 AM
I once had a dude run away from my dude when I was a new dude. So I had my dude beat the shit outta that dude. The staff sent my dude a private whisper and told me not to do that.
So since then I haven't done stuff like that to dudes. It's staff policy to stop this sort of thing from happening to dudes, so you shouldn't be doing it, dude.
I'm lost... can you retype this all in english, minus dudes? Dude. :-\
Some cat ran away from my PC and tried to QQ to avoid conflict. My cat chased after that cat and beat the shit outta that cat before the imms stepped in.
Quote from: Is Friday on April 19, 2010, 01:10:07 AM
Quote from: BlackMagic0 on April 19, 2010, 01:02:42 AM
Quote from: Is Friday on April 19, 2010, 01:00:15 AM
I once had a dude run away from my dude when I was a new dude. So I had my dude beat the shit outta that dude. The staff sent my dude a private whisper and told me not to do that.
So since then I haven't done stuff like that to dudes. It's staff policy to stop this sort of thing from happening to dudes, so you shouldn't be doing it, dude.
I'm lost... can you retype this all in english, minus dudes? Dude. :-\
Some cat ran away from my PC and tried to QQ to avoid conflict. My cat chased after that cat and beat the shit outta that cat before the imms stepped in.
The question part:
Why would the staff stop you? If its IC to beat that person up, raid, mug, or pillage their assholes for your pirate plunger pleasure?
Eh.. I hate people that rush to quit-save rooms, to quit out to avoid conflict, losing a PC, or fighting.
Quote from: BlackMagic0 on April 19, 2010, 01:11:31 AM
Quote from: Is Friday on April 19, 2010, 01:10:07 AM
Quote from: BlackMagic0 on April 19, 2010, 01:02:42 AM
Quote from: Is Friday on April 19, 2010, 01:00:15 AM
I once had a dude run away from my dude when I was a new dude. So I had my dude beat the shit outta that dude. The staff sent my dude a private whisper and told me not to do that.
So since then I haven't done stuff like that to dudes. It's staff policy to stop this sort of thing from happening to dudes, so you shouldn't be doing it, dude.
I'm lost... can you retype this all in english, minus dudes? Dude. :-\
Some cat ran away from my PC and tried to QQ to avoid conflict. My cat chased after that cat and beat the shit outta that cat before the imms stepped in.
The question part:
Why would the staff stop you? If its IC to beat that person up, raid, mug, or pillage their assholes for your pirate plunger pleasure?
Eh.. I hate people that rush to quit-save rooms, to quit out to avoid conflict, losing a PC, or fighting.
Uhhh... if I recall correctly, they force D/C'd.
edit: Definitely something I don't do nowadays, obviously.
Yeah, unless the guy link-deads on me, chances are I'd just let him go. But if he goes link-dead, with one quick OOC, well... sorry, dude. You're dead meat. Depending what happened.
If you find yourself in a cave, it's because I spent an hour trying to subdue you and dragged your rear end to safety.
Not.
That will never happen.
Dude don't kill link-dead people... seriously wtf? You can never know why he disconnected. If you see someone link-dead tell staff, they will log them out. I mean fuck, they sent you an OOC. Respect your fellow player, man.
This really comes down to: a player should be able to quit anywhere, at any time. With appropriate delay to people just in combat and whatnot.
The staff has said repeatedly that a player's link is not their concern.
They may log someone out (if someone responds to the wish), but there is not promise of this.
It isn't wrong to kill LD characters. It is wrong to kill them because they are link dead.
If my character is desperate enough for your water and the type to do it and your character looks like a meal ticket, you'll be apping pretty soon. Promise. I expect no less from you.
Being able to quit anywhere or auto-quitting out folks after idle time would solve this problem, but it hasn't been done. One must wonder why.
I agree we all should be able to quit out anywhere - why just rangers, I've no idea. This means whenever I play a wilderness character I can _only_ play rangers because you know, RL and you may be 30 minutes or more from a quit location and sometimes RL stuff won't wait 30 minutes. Given two hours to play, for example, I can't afford to be 30 minutes away from a quit location. It limits my enjoyment of the game, certainly.
Edit to Add:
They have also stated in the docs that if someone has been mean to you, they probably have. While it is not nice to kill someone who OOCs you about going LD and one would be wise to give that pause for thought, there is no obligation to honor that.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on April 21, 2010, 01:45:30 PM
Dude don't kill link-dead people... seriously wtf?
what if I'm really really stoned and I feel compelled to
Well not everyone get's a second chance.
Quote from: jstorrie on April 21, 2010, 02:51:18 PM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on April 21, 2010, 01:45:30 PM
Dude don't kill link-dead people... seriously wtf?
what if I'm really really stoned and I feel compelled to
You should get account notes, karma removal, and forced storage on your current pc. But hey, that's just my opinion.
Quote from: Kryos on April 24, 2010, 03:41:22 PM
Quote from: jstorrie on April 21, 2010, 02:51:18 PM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on April 21, 2010, 01:45:30 PM
Dude don't kill link-dead people... seriously wtf?
what if I'm really really stoned and I feel compelled to
You should get account notes, karma removal, and forced storage on your current pc. But hey, that's just my opinion.
One that I can't help but agree with.
If they go link dead while I am fighting them, for no reason, should put mercy on. See if they reconnect if not, you already RP'd out the scene, were just getting to the death part. Either do it or just rob them blind and leave them naked in the sands, knocked out..
If they go link dead, and don't come back after 30 minutes. Wish up, or send in a player complaint. DO NOT KILL THEM.
It could be he went link dead to avoid death, like a twink, or could be his internet fucked up. Sadly is no way to tell.
I've had people emote going link dead before.
That being said. If it is IC for my PC to kill yours, being or going linkdead is not going to change the matter.
And that being said, if it is IC for my PC to save the kill for another time, I will do so.
Attacking someone because he's gone or linkdead is pretty awful.
Attacking someone because your character needs to, even though he's unable to respond, is a bit different.
Quote from: X-D on April 24, 2010, 06:58:09 PM
I've had people emote going link dead before.
That being said. If it is IC for my PC to kill yours, being or going linkdead is not going to change the matter.
And that being said, if it is IC for my PC to save the kill for another time, I will do so.
They emoting that? That's low...
Yes well, it was low, but at least then I did not feel bad about going
(Disclaimer: This is also a nono folks.)
em walks south;hide
Quote from: X-D on April 24, 2010, 06:58:09 PM
I've had people emote going link dead before.
Maybe a stupid question, but how can you tell?
Well, When they put an extra space into the emote you kinda gotta wonder.
In the case in question they also neglected to do a reconnect emote.
haha, ok. I didn't think it was that amateurish.
Quote from: LoD on March 13, 2010, 04:35:48 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on March 13, 2010, 03:03:29 PM
Heh. I've heard of some raiders taking so long that their victims actually dehydrated to death while they were flapping their gums.
I hope that was a true story, because it's fucking hilarious.
Pacing back and forth, the man in the black leather mask says, in sirihish:
"Moving on to section 7, subsection 7A under Methods of Approved Travel, victim and persons related to, employed by, or in cohorts with victim, shall no longer travel the roadway hereby termed the "North Road" without express written permission by "Black Moon Raider Inc", unless said travel is in conjunction to a meeting demand made by the management of Black Moon Raider Inc, co-Wayed by at least two officers of said organization..."
The slender, wiry man says, in sirihish:
"So...thirsty..."
Blinking, as if distracted, the man in the black leather mask says, in sirihish:
"Please, we're only on page 3 of the raider-victim post-encounter agreement, and we already covered "Pleas for Help, Food, and Water" under section 4, subsection 4A -- are you even listening?"
Is running out to buy a ring so she can propose to LOD
BTW, it is true.
IMO.
If my intentions were to take their shit and they ooc that they have to go. Ill tell them ooc: I want your shit, or what I came here for before you leave.
If my intentions were to kill them and they ooc that they have to go. I will ooc: Not getting away.
I wiill kill them if that was my intentions, take there shit if thats my intentions. Because if they log back on either I am gonna get founded out or have some type of issue. Who says they'll leave the gate again afterwards? You just never know.
Don't care if I am being a dick or not a dick. This is Armageddon. You go linkdead your liable to die. You got to go inrl. Too fucking bad. Go. Leave your char on for me to murder. Its simple. Its a game. If I had to go inrl. Id try to flee, get out of it that way. But will -not- give anyone my time of day. Do not care who you are. This game is brutal. If you quit because you got owned from a raider or got your shit stolen. That's just you being at the wrong place, at the wrong time. ;)
Quote from: Rogerthat on April 25, 2010, 01:54:50 PM
IMO.
If my intentions were to take their shit and they ooc that they have to go. Ill tell them ooc: I want your shit, or what I came here for before you leave.
If my intentions were to kill them and they ooc that they have to go. I will ooc: Not getting away.
I wiill kill them if that was my intentions, take there shit if thats my intentions. Because if they log back on either I am gonna get founded out or have some type of issue. Who says they'll leave the gate again afterwards? You just never know.
Don't care if I am being a dick or not a dick. This is Armageddon. You go linkdead your liable to die. You got to go inrl. Too fucking bad. Go. Leave your char on for me to murder. Its simple. Its a game. If I had to go inrl. Id try to flee, get out of it that way. But will -not- give anyone my time of day. Do not care who you are. This game is brutal. If you quit because you got owned from a raider or got your shit stolen. That's just you being at the wrong place, at the wrong time. ;)
I'm kind of failing to understand how this makes the game better for you or anyone else. It seems like we should make the ic harsh as harsh as possible with some feeling of ooc collectiveness. We're all on this boat together.
Now, here is something else that really happened.
About 2 years ago my PC caught up with another PC, We will call him Amos.
Amos had done something that meant my PC was going to kill him. No two ways about it.
During the scene Amos goes OOC Hey, I really hate to do this, but there is an emergancy here and I have to go, Your choice to just get it over with now or let me log back in in two hours.
So I was like...Hhhmm, I don't have anything to lose and it has been a good scene.
So, I was like OOC Alright man, two hours.
He logged off, I logged off.
Of course I thought he would not log back in or logged back in 2 minutes later and ran away, But then I figured I could just submit the log to staff and have it taken care of.
After 2 hours I logged back in, Amos was there waiting, Scene continued to the invitable end.
I actually sent a Kudos on that...something I rarely do.
It's people like X-D's "Amos" that make this game better. Your characters may be as shifty as hell, but as players, shouldn't we strive to be honest and trustworthy, and make good on our word?
I'm kind of failing to understand how this makes the game better for you or anyone else. It seems like we should make the ic harsh as harsh as possible with some feeling of ooc collectiveness. We're all on this boat together.
[/quote]
Doesn't. But if it was my duty to kill them I will do it. Perhaps let the stealing his-shit go if hes got to go. But besides that. Armageddon is not trustful. A lot of pc's would go and snitch one out after they got back on. That is just unfair.
Mostly in this thread we should be talking about the player, not the PC.
In what I posted above, the situation was one in which the PC had no realistic escape. The player had been playing along well even though he knew his/her PC was going to die.
I, as another player decided to trust that player. I also had the logs to show if said player did not live up to that trust and was pretty sure staff would have dealt with the problem IF the player had betrayed that trust.
And it has been my experiance that staff is more then willing to deal with such things if need be.
Like something going the other direction.
I once had a Legion PC, A templar wanted another PC for questioning, that PC played along well for a few minutes, going along with emoted actions so none of us resorted to coded actions. I emoted holding him with my HG legion PC, he emoted being grabbed and followed us. We left the sanc, went 2 rooms then, without emote he turned and ran. I chased, keeping up easily of course, he ran directly to the quit room in the firestorm and quit.
I wished up,
Staffer responded, I saw it, stay here.
A few moments later the other PC logged back in, now, I don't know if staff logged him back in or he did it on his own, but I do know that the room had become noquit and the exit was blocked.
You know that player got something other then kudos.
I think it was about a year ago, the one time someone tried to stick one of my pcs up in the middle of the desert. My internet connection was awful as hell, and I was trying to teach a n00b how to mine. Someone comes up to my pc out in the middle of the desert and pretty much tells them to hand over their mount and all their sid. They hand over all their sid and are pleading to fuck them or suck them off rather than giving over their mount. ... And my internet connection dies.
I was scared as hell that they were going to kill my pc because the cable company who was our ISP couldn't manage to keep their internet stable between 6 am and 6 pm.
When I log back in, no one's around, so I start heading back to the city and see the n00b's stripped corpse. Once I get inside it's an IRL hour or two before I see said raider, but I wind up OOCing them to ask if they want the mount ticket because she would have cheerfully given it over rather than die. They said no, but even still, I thought the way they handled it was really classy, and my pc never reported them or said a word about it to anyone.
I think it's kind of shitty that people are willing to kill you if you go LD in the middle of a scene like that. I think it's equally as shitty if people are willing to fake going LD to try and save their characters. To the person behind that stick-up, man I hope I remembered to send you kudos. You deserve them.
I'm with X-D on this (this is getting creepy).
If my character is in the process of killing your character, and that is the intent, then she will kill your character. If you go link-dead during the process, it sucks, it's frustrating, but I'm not going to change my character's plans, personality, and plotline over it. I would -definitely- also e-mail the staff with a log to let them know what happened and why, from my POV and from my character's POV.
If my character goes linkdead while you're in the process of killing her, I ask only that you e-mail the staff to let them know what just happened and why. That way if I have a concern of the IC legitimacy, it can be addressed privately via e-mail with the staff. And I imagine they would simply say "your character was killed for IC reasons" and leave it at that. And I would be satisfied with that answer, because I would know that you, the player, took the time to make sure the staff knew what happened.
Back in the day I was in the process of killing an informant when they began to have fluctuating connectivity issues. At the time I thought it was pretty convenient, and killed them after the third reconnect. I later learned that the issue was genuine, and just let me say that I continue to feel a total dick about the whole thing. Since then I always give the other party the benefit of the doubt, and if they abuse that trust I'm more than willing to send in a complaint. People need to remember this is just a game, and respecting those who play it must always take priority over the few smalls their gear would bring at market.
Lizzie: Sure, if there's no alternative. But rescheduling is infinitely more preferable.
<----------- AGREES WITH Lizzie. :)
I was playing once and was in the middle of being assassinated when my girlfriend starts to break up with me over the phone.. I was gonna die anyway, probably, and trying to type and converse was getting too much. I ooc'ed what was happening, but just stepped back and let it happen (the PK that is), was annoying but inevitable (the PK that is) :)
PKing someone who is linkdead is about the douchiest douche you can douche.
Try to keep a player involved in the death of their pc. It makes Jingo happy.
Quote from: Simple on April 25, 2010, 06:55:05 PM
I was playing once and was in the middle of being assassinated when my girlfriend starts to break up with me over the phone.. I was gonna die anyway, probably, and trying to type and converse was getting too much. I ooc'ed what was happening, but just stepped back and let it happen (the PK that is), was annoying but inevitable (the PK that is) :)
Heh, I remember that. You had it coming. Both IC and OOC.
Quote from: Jingo on April 25, 2010, 07:47:05 PM
PKing someone who is linkdead is about the douchiest douche you can douche.
Try to keep a player involved in the death of their pc. It makes Jingo happy.
Yeah, it seems pretty clear cut, killing a linkdead PC on purpose makes you an asshole :-\
Some people don't mind being assholes though.
Quote from: musashi on April 26, 2010, 07:59:16 AM
Quote from: Jingo on April 25, 2010, 07:47:05 PM
PKing someone who is linkdead is about the douchiest douche you can douche.
Try to keep a player involved in the death of their pc. It makes Jingo happy.
Yeah, it seems pretty clear cut, killing a linkdead PC on purpose makes you an asshole :-\
Some people don't mind being assholes though.
Welcome to Armageddon?
The world of 2 shot arrow deaths, and enter room: kill dude. Spam no emote.
Its gotten better and worst over the years I been playing, it goes up and down, depending on a few things.
I've never experienced a poor end at the hands of a player. I hope this trend continues (I am not so jaded as to disallow everyone the benefit of the doubt yet).
Quote from: Jdr on April 26, 2010, 11:49:35 PM
I've never experienced a poor end at the hands of a player. I hope this trend continues (I am not so jaded as to disallow everyone the benefit of the doubt yet).
Amazingly. Its not as bad as it seems.
Though it sticks out like a sore thumb when it happens.
And makes a lot of people kind blah, and not motivated to write a new app.
The reason I left for a break, 2 no-emote, no-nothing, deaths in a row.
Now I am back! And not seen it, yet. So. :)
I utilize the golden rule when dealing with other players.
In this situation, if I have been hunting this PC for more than this one IC time, then I will kill them, if I can, if they go linkdead on purpose.
If the player asks to quit and to redo the scene later, I will set up a date.
If the player just quits, I will send a critical player complaint and enter room:bash next time.
If I explain to them that it is IC to kill their PC at this appointed place and time, then I am going to try and kill that motherfucker with whatever bone or wooden sword I have on hand. It is up to them to go linkdead or take the five seconds to bash me, disarm me, trample me, kick me, and then kill me. They also get fifteen minutes of being logged in for powergaming and killing me.
Quote from: Boggis on April 26, 2010, 07:23:38 AM
Quote from: Simple on April 25, 2010, 06:55:05 PM
I was playing once and was in the middle of being assassinated when my girlfriend starts to break up with me over the phone.. I was gonna die anyway, probably, and trying to type and converse was getting too much. I ooc'ed what was happening, but just stepped back and let it happen (the PK that is), was annoying but inevitable (the PK that is) :)
Heh, I remember that. You had it coming. Both IC and OOC.
That's because I push the limits IC and OOC.
Edit to add: Although he was completely out of control IC.
As someone who has PK'd more than been PK'd (that's not saying much, btw), I probably should say "attempted PKs" more than have had them attempted on my characters, I tell you that as a die-hard emoter/thinker near MUSH-like RPer that characters will RUN LIKE HELL if they think their character is at risk rather than wait around for a threatening emote or two.
When I'm playing Byn characters I note that I emote more frequently that most other combat characters (though many do emote in their combat, I just happen to be one of the "annoying emoters" that die-hard MUD players complain about spamming stuff), so I know I'm speaking the truth when I say that when my characters are intent on murdering someone, emoting prior to or during real PK attempts is likely to end up with the murder attempt going bad.
So what do I do when my character really needs to kill someone? I don't emote or think except before the attempt and after.
(This was all in reply to BlackMagick, who stated he quit after two no-emote deaths, only to come back later.)
What we can do, to help this (as raiders) is to email the staff about the killing and request they email the player to explain as much "why" and player-to-player apologies / sorrow / kudos as is appropriate.
I distinctly remember emoting slitting the throat of an unconscious character (read: they died without any real interaction after I IICly tricked them) and they when to the GDB to complain (they were also a new player and were going to give up on the game). Recognizing their death scene description (specifically the emote I used), I was able to contact them and explain things from my character's perspective, how I (as a RL person) felt badly for them and hopefully helped them ease their experience of the Mantis Head.
To make this thread topical WRT killing LD folks:
1. If you (the player) attacks because the character is link dead, you deserve punishment.
2. If your character attacks because it is IC to do so, then do so.
3. If the powers that be didn't want us to kill LD folks, they would allow us to avoid combat while LD.
Regarding #3, we have AWESOME staff that have been highly progressive with the game and have a proven track record spanning years. While I don't agree with all of their changes to the game, I'm certain that if they wanted to, they could prevent LD players from getting killed in the very next patch. I can think of 10 ways to codedly change the behavior of LD people and I'm not even a software developer (any longer).
So ask yourselves: Why haven't they? and Should they?
I don't know the answers to these questions, but I find them interesting.
Well, the MUD really can't reliably detect linkdeadedness. You've noticed how the lost link/reconnected messages often occur together?
The tall, muscular man has lost link.
The tall, muscular man has reconnected.
That's because ginka didn't know they were gone until they came back.
I have emoted link deadness, and then went link dead and came back dead. Just so that the other player knows I really had to leave, which I did.
While this was way before my time, I've heard from older players that there used to be a limbo room players were whisked away to when they went link dead for a certain amount of time.
The reason that code was taken out was not because the link dead folk were abusing it. It was taken out because the jerks were going link dead, then logging back in, into the limbo room ... to wait for other people to show up link dead, to kill them.
Felt that should get a mention in light of Sinna's last post about staff and code and policy and all that.
If that is the reason the limbo is taken away, that is not a good enough reason at all.
In another mud (diku), there was the limbo room but as soon as you typed something there you would automatically be yanked back to where you were limboed from (just like your "gone" status is gone when you enter something).
So there is your solution, -if- that was the problem.
Or just flag the limbo room a no-kill room. I'm sure they have some sort of flag for that.
I actually had a friend who link deaded on here, and he reconnected to be killed. Kinda sucks, but I mean...
I'm a -really- nice guy. If people knew the PCs I played, aside from staff, they would know I'm a -really- nice guy. Because I give leeway and concessions and I like to involve everybody, often at the expense of OMG TWENTY CONVERSATIONS MY HEAD!
And that leads to me forgetting a lot. But I never have had the best memory ,and neither have my PCs.
14 PCs later....
I'm still a -really- nice guy. So if somebody has to go, I let em go. I don't like making people angry because they sit there going "That miserable jerk Awesomeman killed me when I had to quit out -_-"
However, on the same token... if you BS me, I'm gonna be a real mean guy. And ask Staff to rez all my chars and give them uberstats to keel you with.
How awkward would it be to get killed by a rotting Skeletor xD?
When your victim asks to quit, kill him, because he's already krath-touched and talking crazy.
When the player of your victim asks to quit, set up a date to replay scene, or null void scene. All attempts to log and notify staff should be made. I'd have suggested something different, had this thread not come about, but we've all seen what people want, expect, wish for, and hate.
So until the next thread, give that player the benefit of a doubt. Should they prove trustworthy, both you, and staff, should be pleased with the outcome. Should they not return, or run off and inform the authorities, then hopefully Tek's mighty hellfire burns a hole through the players screen, thus ending their ARM experience in a fiery, gruesome, expensive display of UNHOLY WRATH for being assholes who they themselves can't respect OOC communication and playerbase trust, when they're asking for it from you.
Be the first to give a damn.
QuoteWhen the player of your victim asks to quit, set up a date to replay scene, or null void scene.
I don't see how you can do this , Kevo. The world moves on, and the adversaries can't be in the same time/place again?
It seems like you just have to leave it with the assailant to assassinate or not. Which I guess is the null void option.
Really your best option is to send a report in after the event stating, 'Dudeface, the man with a dude face, needed to log out when we were in a scene that was going to wind up with his death', that way staff have a record for future events if the player seems to be making a habit of the behavior.
After reading the length of this post I have to put my 2 cents in and ofcorse this is my opion. I personally have
been in situations over the many years of play where you just have to log and log on the spot. Life happends, its the players that try and prolong you exit that I find frustrating. If a player say please I need to log asap then let him log out. Consider it common courtesy to others; it could be you one day. If you think the player is doing it as an escape then just give a heads up to the imms and they will keep an eye on his/her play and deal with em acordingly. But I personally would never just take the guy out myself.
Let them go, always. OOC trumps IC every single time. Keeping them, even for a minute longer after the OOC is dickheadish, you deserve to die. And frankly, if I were an IMM, and thank god I'm not, if a player OOC'd they had to leave, and you pushed the "I'll make it quick." Well I'd show you how quick your character would be dying in the next five minutes as well. Dragons and unholy brimstone shit descends upon you, revive the slain pc, and give him your gear instead. That's justice, assholes.
Quote from: FightClub on July 31, 2010, 07:35:28 PM
Let them go, always. OOC trumps IC every single time. Keeping them, even for a minute longer after the OOC is dickheadish, you deserve to die. And frankly, if I were an IMM, and thank god I'm not, if a player OOC'd they had to leave, and you pushed the "I'll make it quick." Well I'd show you how quick your character would be dying in the next five minutes as well. Dragons and unholy brimstone shit descends upon you, revive the slain pc, and give him your gear instead. That's justice, assholes.
As a regular victim (most of the characters I've had that I didn't store, were assassinated)...I'd completely and vehemently disagree with you. I would MUCH rather have you kill my character NOW, if that is the intention, than have to endure logging in and having to figure out an IC explanation as to why my character is still alive, when your character had caught mine yesterday, was going to kill her, and is STILL going to kill her...but for some mysterious magickal reason let her go?
Or even worse - if your character is a templar and mine is in jail, and I have to wait a whole RL day before the scene can continue - which means all day long if I want to log in, the only thing I'd be able to do is sit in jail and be frustrated.
Just kill me and get it over with so I can app in the morning and not have to deal with being chased all over again. It's fun the first time. The second time, not so much.
Quote from: Lizzie on July 31, 2010, 07:49:52 PM
Quote from: FightClub on July 31, 2010, 07:35:28 PM
Let them go, always. OOC trumps IC every single time. Keeping them, even for a minute longer after the OOC is dickheadish, you deserve to die. And frankly, if I were an IMM, and thank god I'm not, if a player OOC'd they had to leave, and you pushed the "I'll make it quick." Well I'd show you how quick your character would be dying in the next five minutes as well. Dragons and unholy brimstone shit descends upon you, revive the slain pc, and give him your gear instead. That's justice, assholes.
As a regular victim (most of the characters I've had that I didn't store, were assassinated)...I'd completely and vehemently disagree with you. I would MUCH rather have you kill my character NOW, if that is the intention, than have to endure logging in and having to figure out an IC explanation as to why my character is still alive, when your character had caught mine yesterday, was going to kill her, and is STILL going to kill her...but for some mysterious magickal reason let her go?
Or even worse - if your character is a templar and mine is in jail, and I have to wait a whole RL day before the scene can continue - which means all day long if I want to log in, the only thing I'd be able to do is sit in jail and be frustrated.
Just kill me and get it over with so I can app in the morning and not have to deal with being chased all over again. It's fun the first time. The second time, not so much.
Then apparently you don't need to leave that badly, which means you shouldn't be oocing about it to begin with, Lizzie.
Quote from: solera on May 23, 2010, 01:34:38 AM
I don't see how you can do this , Kevo. The world moves on, and the adversaries can't be in the same time/place again?
It seems like you just have to leave it with the assailant to assassinate or not. Which I guess is the null void option.
Yeah, I hate to advocate an unpopular opinion, but I do believe that there are certain situations where you can't use OOC to get you out of something.
One such situation is if you're being killed by an (NPC) tembo. The mob doesn't care that you need to log off. It will fulfill it's programming and kill you anyway.
I guess I don't think that it's okay to OOC and ask your assailant to let you off the hook. Needing to log off is a dicey excuse, anyway. In theory you shouldn't be stepping into the wasteland if you need to be at an appointment on the other side Dallas in eighty minutes. This sort of decision leads to more than one variety of problem.
What I do think would be fair would be to OOC that you need to hurry up the scene. I've done this before. I like something that Lizzie said:
Quote from: Lizzie on July 31, 2010, 07:49:52 PM
Just kill me and get it over with so I can app in the morning and not have to deal with being chased all over again. It's fun the first time. The second time, not so much.
So were I in the situation described by EvilRoeSlade, I think that it's probably better to kill your victim and preserve the harsh atmosphere of the game. I'm not posting this to hurt anyone's feelings or hurt anyone's fun, but rather I think that the lesson to learn is not to go traipsing around the wasteland if you have an appointment later, and that if you want to do any begging for your character's life it's better to do that IC.
EDITED TO ADD: You know, something not so dissimilar happened to me recently. I got robbed while I was link-dead of about 2,000 coins worth of stuff. I got mad about this, but I didn't file a complaint. I respect other people's rights to be evil bastards inside of the game.
If I OOC that I have to log out, and you initiate an attack on me, knowing that I won't be able to stick around at the keyboard for the 10+ minutes it takes for the attack timer to wear off, I will file a player complaint against you, and if I know who you are, I will make it a point to persecute your characters mercilessly whenever I have the opportunity to do so, and completely avoid your characters when I don't.
The problem is that YOU don't KNOW that you could actually get away with killing me, when I'm at the keyboard. I don't care how badass you -think- you are.
The simplest thing to do in an awkward apartment situation is to RETCON and have both players agree that they were never -in- that situation. Now, if the victim wants to be a little bitch and completely avoid your PC after that, then you file a player complaint. If they start spreading rumors that you tried to kill them, you file a player complaint. You never initiate the vicious asshole cycle.
Don't kill people who are linkdead. Don't steal from people who are linkdead. Don't attack people when they tell you they need to log out. This is common courtesy, people. It doesn't fly out the window just because you think your character is the world's greatest asshole. There's no justification for it whatsoever. End of story.
This is one of those times where I agree with Synthesis.
In your opinion there is not.
Course, if my PC thinks he can kill yours then he is correct. Unless you run and get away.
And running is IC, if you get away, make a timer on your client to log you out in 20 minutes and go about your business.
If your not going to run then drop carrier where you are and hope my PC is the type that is merciful. Because if my PCs intention is to kill yours at that time, going OOC is not going to get you out of it. File a complaint if you wish, because if you do OOC to get out of death or a fight or quit out to do the same I sure will be, and in our next meeting it will be a surprise attack.
And that is my opinion on the matter.
Quote from: X-D on August 02, 2010, 04:21:31 PM
In your opinion there is not.
Course, if my PC thinks he can kill yours then he is correct. Unless you run and get away.
And running is IC, if you get away, make a timer on your client to log you out in 20 minutes and go about your business.
If your not going to run then drop carrier where you are and hope my PC is the type that is merciful. Because if my PCs intention is to kill yours at that time, going OOC is not going to get you out of it. File a complaint if you wish, because if you do OOC to get out of death or a fight or quit out to do the same I sure will be, and in our next meeting it will be a surprise attack.
And that is my opinion on the matter.
The thing with that, X-D, is your insinuating that the other person is ONLY using OOC to get out of death or a fight. The thing with this thread is the other person using OOC because they need to leave like RIGHT THAT INSTANT, and they don't have the time to stick around and fight your PC, because you aren't 100% sure that you'll be able to kill them. And chances are, they would try to run away in the event that they started losing to your PC. And then they end up with the combat timer and are thus unable to quit out due to you attacking them with the thought you could kill them quickly. In short, it completely fucks up what they were trying to make a simple logoff.
Think ahead, first of all, if you have to log out in ten minutes, what are you doing in the situation to begin with? No sympathy there.
And if you do get away, get to a quit room, set timer to enter quit in 20 minutes. Big deal, takes what 30 seconds on almost any client? No sympathy again.
As for not knowing if they are doing it to get out of a fight/death, your right, but, if you look at what is posted above, considering there are options so that you don't have to resort to OOC, then odds are, you are only doing it to get out of death/fight. Not that I care anyway, since there are, as I said, other options.
The only option I will consider is if the player does go OOC Hey, I need to quit, can we pick this up again at this same spot at this time?
I've had people do that several times and never been dissapointed.
Quote from: Synthesis on August 02, 2010, 04:10:54 PM
If I OOC that I have to log out, and you initiate an attack on me, knowing that I won't be able to stick around at the keyboard for the 10+ minutes it takes for the attack timer to wear off, I will file a player complaint against you, and if I know who you are, I will make it a point to persecute your characters mercilessly whenever I have the opportunity to do so, and completely avoid your characters when I don't.
Maintaining the "harsh" environment doesn't mean you have to be an inconsiderate asshole on an OOC level. Beliefs like these are what consistently ensure that Armageddon doesn't get newbies, and why most new players, probably don't continue to play here. I mean look at the GDB, I've seen most of you posting here, over and over, on the same tired, and blown-out subjects. Good work, your idea of grit, and harshness, is of being a bully and a douche bag. Heavy emphasis on the douche bag.
I had someone do this to me. I was about to quit on a ranger pc and they jumped on me and all that. I just did the Rp. Ended up robbed, then quit.
*shrug*
Quote from: Jingo on August 02, 2010, 04:43:02 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on August 02, 2010, 04:10:54 PM
If I OOC that I have to log out, and you initiate an attack on me, knowing that I won't be able to stick around at the keyboard for the 10+ minutes it takes for the attack timer to wear off, I will file a player complaint against you, and if I know who you are, I will make it a point to persecute your characters mercilessly whenever I have the opportunity to do so, and completely avoid your characters when I don't.
The player complaint is warranted. The rest of it should, and will, get you banned.
Quote from: Ampere on August 03, 2010, 02:21:42 PM
Quote from: Jingo on August 02, 2010, 04:43:02 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on August 02, 2010, 04:10:54 PM
If I OOC that I have to log out, and you initiate an attack on me, knowing that I won't be able to stick around at the keyboard for the 10+ minutes it takes for the attack timer to wear off, I will file a player complaint against you, and if I know who you are, I will make it a point to persecute your characters mercilessly whenever I have the opportunity to do so, and completely avoid your characters when I don't.
The player complaint is warranted. The rest of it should, and will, get you banned.
You know, I'm glad that both of you have spoken your minds. And I'm glad that both of you have been honest. But it seems like there is a huge, huge gap not only in terms of what we as players understand should happen in this situation, but also which of the raider/escapee parties deserves the most sympathy.
Really it seems like we're not all on the same page.
That being said, I think that this is one that we should all sit down and talk out. Obviously tempers are flaring and a lot is at stake.
First of all, we should probably calm down and try to define and admit why it is, in as many words, this topic gets us all so fired up.
Anyone care to go first?
The people saying to let the person go maintain that stopping someone from logging out is mean in an OOC manner and inconsiderate of your fellow players.
Quote from: spawnloser on August 03, 2010, 11:13:30 PM
The people saying to let the person go maintain that stopping someone from logging out is mean in an OOC manner and inconsiderate of your fellow players.
Unfortunately, in an entirely OOC manner, many players are not considerate of others. I "play" on the highway regularly, and there are plenty of people that don't give a damn about anyone else around, though we're all playing the same game together.
Bilanthri, I really have no idea what you just tried to say there. Players aren't considerate of other players? That I picked out, and it's unfortunate. It's also what the people saying 'let the person go' is the problem. We, as players should respect each other, even though we understand that our characters are completely separate beings that don't have to respect shit. There's a big difference between being a dick in an IC manner and being a dick in an OOC manner.
Quote from: Bilanthri on August 04, 2010, 11:46:42 AM
Quote from: spawnloser on August 03, 2010, 11:13:30 PM
The people saying to let the person go maintain that stopping someone from logging out is mean in an OOC manner and inconsiderate of your fellow players.
Unfortunately, in an entirely OOC manner, many players are not considerate of others. I "play" on the highway regularly, and there are plenty of people that don't give a damn about anyone else around, though we're all playing the same game together.
Bilanthri, you do make a valid point. There are plenty of players that are dicks. Actually, they are a minority but there are enough of them to cause a grievance. That being said, wouldn't you agree that two wrongs don't make a right?
Usually in imperfect situations such as the one that you described, it's better to be as nice as possible (OOC, at least) while making sure not to leave your guard down around dickheads or potential dickheads.
Quote from: jriley on August 04, 2010, 09:57:49 PM
Bilanthri, you do make a valid point. There are plenty of players that are dicks. Actually, they are a minority but there are enough of them to cause a grievance. That being said, wouldn't you agree that two wrongs don't make a right?
I do agree and am in no way endorsing or defending abuse in either direction.
Fair enough. So to the people who are sympathetic to the victim, do you understand why the raider might be unsatisfied with the option to either let the victim go, or to try to meet again at the same spot to replay the situation?
*bump*
Not sure I'm comfortable letting people walk away from an impending PK, but don't want to piss people off to the point where they're going to cheat/quit.
Main edit: Yes jriley, I do understand and sympathize to a certain extent with the raider. Read on to get my opinion on the matter...
Mugger/Raider/Assassin/etc. and the potential victim both shoulder some responsibility in making a scene like this playable and accurate (RP wise) while still allowing OOC courtesy.
In my opinion, attempting a hit on someone after they've OOC'ly stated that they need to leave is bad form. I think the biggest problem with attempting a hit on said character is that our real lives need to determine our playtimes (although, I'll be the first to admit that the addiction runs deep, and that at times, this is not the case :D). By making the attempt, you've pretty much removed the option for that person to log immediately, which as I've said, is bad form in my eyes - do unto others. I've also heard time and time again (from staff on the GDB) that our real lives must take precedence, and, IMO, you shouldn't be removing the option for someone else to get on with theirs.*
That being said (IMO, once again), if one does encounter a potential murderer and you've got to log, it's up to the potential victim to allow a similar situation to take place in the future (when you have more time). As an example: I've wished up to be perma-crimmed when a Templar allowed me to log during an interrogation. I logged back in, and then my jail timer ended, so I wished up and was placed back into the cells with a permacrim until I could interact with this Templar again. It was only logical, considering the scene that was unfolding before I logged. It is your responsibility to recognize a situation in which your character might be bested... and by bested, I mean murdered to death. That's right... murdered to death. I said it. Jriley, you should be able to trust that a player is willing to come back and play out the scene... if they do not, then you really need to report it to staff.
Beyond this... if you have to log out, it probably isn't good form to be making a rapid trip between the city-states, in case you run into any would-be raiders. The same goes for any thievery attempts, moving about int he 'rinth, etc. - allow yourself enough time to be caught, interrogated, tortured, mugged etc. to avoid situations like this. It's not impossible to avoid them all, I guess.
Most of all... you should be able to balance OOC courtesy and IC verisimilitude. Use your discretion. I really don't believe there's a black and white answer to this question. If both parties are behaving nontwinkishly (read, not selfishly), it should iron itself out in the end. Equal responsibility.
* IMO: If there is a chance that they'll get away, let them go, but if you're going to kill them anyway, and you have all the means, AND you're 99.9% sure that they'll NOT be able to escape, and you've been working hard to set this situation up, then I think it's fair to just get the job done.
As a newbie, I want to say that many things expressed in this thread have been really discouraging. I like this game because I feel like I -really- am in danger. I love roleplaying a tense moment, but IC is not a trump for OOC. I think it would be ideal if everyone started playing this game by acknowledging the premise that everyone they interact with is here to roleplay and have fun. That is an OOC premise, but I believe it facilitates much better IC interaction.