When your victim asks to quit.

[X-D]

BTW, it is true.

[Rogerthat]

IMO.
If my intentions were to take their shit and they ooc that they have to go. Ill tell them ooc: I want your shit, or what I came here for before you leave.
If my intentions were to kill them and they ooc that they have to go. I will ooc: Not getting away.
I wiill kill them if that was my intentions, take there shit if thats my intentions. Because if they log back on either I am gonna get founded out or have some type of issue. Who says they'll leave the gate again afterwards? You just never know.

Don't care if I am being a dick or not a dick. This is Armageddon. You go linkdead your liable to die. You got to go inrl. Too fucking bad. Go. Leave your char on for me to murder. Its simple. Its a game. If I had to go inrl. Id try to flee, get out of it that way. But will -not- give anyone my time of day. Do not care who you are. This game is brutal. If you quit because you got owned from a raider or got your shit stolen. That's just you being at the wrong place, at the wrong time. 

[Barzalene]

IMO.
If my intentions were to take their shit and they ooc that they have to go. Ill tell them ooc: I want your shit, or what I came here for before you leave.
If my intentions were to kill them and they ooc that they have to go. I will ooc: Not getting away.
I wiill kill them if that was my intentions, take there shit if thats my intentions. Because if they log back on either I am gonna get founded out or have some type of issue. Who says they'll leave the gate again afterwards? You just never know.

Don't care if I am being a dick or not a dick. This is Armageddon. You go linkdead your liable to die. You got to go inrl. Too fucking bad. Go. Leave your char on for me to murder. Its simple. Its a game. If I had to go inrl. Id try to flee, get out of it that way. But will -not- give anyone my time of day. Do not care who you are. This game is brutal. If you quit because you got owned from a raider or got your shit stolen. That's just you being at the wrong place, at the wrong time.  

I'm kind of failing to understand how this makes the game better for you or anyone else. It seems like we should make the ic harsh as harsh as possible with some feeling of ooc collectiveness. We're all on this boat together.

[X-D]

Now, here is something else that really happened.

About 2 years ago my PC caught up with another PC, We will call him Amos.

Amos had done something that meant my PC was going to kill him. No two ways about it.

During the scene Amos goes OOC Hey, I really hate to do this, but there is an emergancy here and I have to go, Your choice to just get it over with now or let me log back in in two hours.

So I was like...Hhhmm, I don't have anything to lose and it has been a good scene.

So, I was like OOC Alright man, two hours.

He logged off, I logged off.

Of course I thought he would not log back in or logged back in 2 minutes later and ran away, But then I figured I could just submit the log to staff and have it taken care of.

After 2 hours I logged back in, Amos was there waiting, Scene continued to the invitable end.

I actually sent a Kudos on that...something I rarely do.

[Aaron Goulet]

It's people like X-D's "Amos" that make this game better.  Your characters may be as shifty as hell, but as players, shouldn't we strive to be honest and trustworthy, and make good on our word?

[Rogerthat]

I'm kind of failing to understand how this makes the game better for you or anyone else. It seems like we should make the ic harsh as harsh as possible with some feeling of ooc collectiveness. We're all on this boat together.
[/quote]

Doesn't. But if it was my duty to kill them I will do it. Perhaps let the stealing his-shit go if hes got to go. But besides that. Armageddon is not trustful. A lot of pc's would go and snitch one out after they got back on. That is just unfair.

[X-D]

Mostly in this thread we should be talking about the player, not the PC.

In what I posted above, the situation was one in which the PC had no realistic escape. The player had been playing along well even though he knew his/her PC was going to die.

I, as another player decided to trust that player. I also had the logs to show if said player did not live up to that trust and was pretty sure staff would have dealt with the problem IF the player had betrayed that trust.

And it has been my experiance that staff is more then willing to deal with such things if need be.

Like something going the other direction.

I once had a Legion PC, A templar wanted another PC for questioning, that PC played along well for a few minutes, going along with emoted actions so none of us resorted to coded actions. I emoted holding him with my HG legion PC, he emoted being grabbed and followed us. We left the sanc, went 2 rooms then, without emote he turned and ran. I chased, keeping up easily of course, he ran directly to the quit room in the firestorm and quit.

I wished up,
Staffer responded, I saw it, stay here.

A few moments later the other PC logged back in, now, I don't know if staff logged him back in or he did it on his own, but I do know that the room had become noquit and the exit was blocked.

You know that player got something other then kudos.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I think it was about a year ago, the one time someone tried to stick one of my pcs up in the middle of the desert. My internet connection was awful as hell, and I was trying to teach a n00b how to mine. Someone comes up to my pc out in the middle of the desert and pretty much tells them to hand over their mount and all their sid. They hand over all their sid and are pleading to fuck them or suck them off rather than giving over their mount. ... And my internet connection dies.

I was scared as hell that they were going to kill my pc because the cable company who was our ISP couldn't manage to keep their internet stable between 6 am and 6 pm.

When I log back in, no one's around, so I start heading back to the city and see the n00b's stripped corpse. Once I get inside it's an IRL hour or two before I see said raider, but I wind up OOCing them to ask if they want the mount ticket because she would have cheerfully given it over rather than die. They said no, but even still, I thought the way they handled it was really classy, and my pc never reported them or said a word about it to anyone.

I think it's kind of shitty that people are willing to kill you if you go LD in the middle of a scene like that. I think it's equally as shitty if people are willing to fake going LD to try and save their characters. To the person behind that stick-up, man I hope I remembered to send you kudos. You deserve them.

[Lizzie]

I'm with X-D on this (this is getting creepy).

If my character is in the process of killing your character, and that is the intent, then she will kill your character. If you go link-dead during the process, it sucks, it's frustrating, but I'm not going to change my character's plans, personality, and plotline over it. I would -definitely- also e-mail the staff with a log to let them know what happened and why, from my POV and from my character's POV.

If my character goes linkdead while you're in the process of killing her, I ask only that you e-mail the staff to let them know what just happened and why. That way if I have a concern of the IC legitimacy, it can be addressed privately via e-mail with the staff. And I imagine they would simply say "your character was killed for IC reasons" and leave it at that. And I would be satisfied with that answer, because I would know that you, the player, took the time to make sure the staff knew what happened.

[Ampere]

Back in the day I was in the process of killing an informant when they began to have fluctuating connectivity issues.  At the time I thought it was pretty convenient, and killed them after the third reconnect.  I later learned that the issue was genuine, and just let me say that I continue to feel a total dick about the whole thing.  Since then I always give the other party the benefit of the doubt, and if they abuse that trust I'm more than willing to send in a complaint.  People need to remember this is just a game, and respecting those who play it must always take priority over the few smalls their gear would bring at market.

Lizzie: Sure, if there's no alternative.  But rescheduling is infinitely more preferable.

[Rogerthat]

<----------- AGREES WITH Lizzie. 

[Simple]

I was playing once and was in the middle of being assassinated when my girlfriend starts to break up with me over the phone.. I was gonna die anyway, probably, and trying to type and converse was getting too much. I ooc'ed what was happening, but just stepped back and let it happen (the PK that is), was annoying but inevitable (the PK that is)

[Jingo]

PKing someone who is linkdead is about the douchiest douche you can douche.

Try to keep a player involved in the death of their pc. It makes Jingo happy.

[Boggis]

I was playing once and was in the middle of being assassinated when my girlfriend starts to break up with me over the phone.. I was gonna die anyway, probably, and trying to type and converse was getting too much. I ooc'ed what was happening, but just stepped back and let it happen (the PK that is), was annoying but inevitable (the PK that is)

Heh, I remember that. You had it coming. Both IC and OOC.

[musashi]

PKing someone who is linkdead is about the douchiest douche you can douche.

Try to keep a player involved in the death of their pc. It makes Jingo happy.

Yeah, it seems pretty clear cut, killing a linkdead PC on purpose makes you an asshole 

Some people don't mind being assholes though.

[BlackMagic0]

PKing someone who is linkdead is about the douchiest douche you can douche.

Try to keep a player involved in the death of their pc. It makes Jingo happy.

Yeah, it seems pretty clear cut, killing a linkdead PC on purpose makes you an asshole  

Some people don't mind being assholes though.

Welcome to Armageddon?
The world of 2 shot arrow deaths, and enter room: kill dude. Spam no emote.

Its gotten better and worst over the years I been playing, it goes up and down, depending on a few things.

[Jdr]

I've never experienced a poor end at the hands of a player. I hope this trend continues (I am not so jaded as to disallow everyone the benefit of the doubt yet).

[BlackMagic0]

I've never experienced a poor end at the hands of a player. I hope this trend continues (I am not so jaded as to disallow everyone the benefit of the doubt yet).

Amazingly. Its not as bad as it seems.
Though it sticks out like a sore thumb when it happens.

And makes a lot of people kind blah, and not motivated to write a new app.

The reason I left for a break, 2 no-emote, no-nothing, deaths in a row.
Now I am back! And not seen it, yet. So.

[Delstro]

I utilize the golden rule when dealing with other players.

In this situation, if I have been hunting this PC for more than this one IC time, then I will kill them, if I can, if they go linkdead on purpose.
If the player asks to quit and to redo the scene later, I will set up a date.
If the player just quits, I will send a critical player complaint and enter room:bash next time.
If I explain to them that it is IC to kill their PC at this appointed place and time, then I am going to try and kill that motherfucker with whatever bone or wooden sword I have on hand. It is up to them to go linkdead or take the five seconds to bash me, disarm me, trample me, kick me, and then kill me. They also get fifteen minutes of being logged in for powergaming and killing me.

[Simple]

I was playing once and was in the middle of being assassinated when my girlfriend starts to break up with me over the phone.. I was gonna die anyway, probably, and trying to type and converse was getting too much. I ooc'ed what was happening, but just stepped back and let it happen (the PK that is), was annoying but inevitable (the PK that is)

Heh, I remember that. You had it coming. Both IC and OOC.

That's because I push the limits IC and OOC.

Edit to add: Although he was completely out of control IC.

[Sinna]

As someone who has PK'd more than been PK'd (that's not saying much, btw), I probably should say "attempted PKs" more than have had them attempted on my characters, I tell you that as a die-hard emoter/thinker near MUSH-like RPer that characters will RUN LIKE HELL if they think their character is at risk rather than wait around for a threatening emote or two.

When I'm playing Byn characters I note that I emote more frequently that most other combat characters (though many do emote in their combat, I just happen to be one of the "annoying emoters" that die-hard MUD players complain about spamming stuff), so I know I'm speaking the truth when I say that when my characters are intent on murdering someone, emoting prior to or during real PK attempts is likely to end up with the murder attempt going bad.

So what do I do when my character really needs to kill someone?  I don't emote or think except before the attempt and after. 

(This was all in reply to BlackMagick, who stated he quit after two no-emote deaths, only to come back later.) 

What we can do, to help this (as raiders) is to email the staff about the killing and request they email the player to explain as much "why" and player-to-player apologies / sorrow / kudos as is appropriate.

I distinctly remember emoting slitting the throat of an unconscious character (read: they died without any real interaction after I IICly tricked them) and they when to the GDB to complain (they were also a new player and were going to give up on the game).  Recognizing their death scene description (specifically the emote I used), I was able to contact them and explain things from my character's perspective, how I (as a RL person) felt badly for them and hopefully helped them ease their experience of the Mantis Head. 

To make this thread topical WRT killing LD folks:
1. If you (the player) attacks because the character is link dead, you deserve punishment.
2. If your character attacks because it is IC to do so, then do so.
3. If the powers that be didn't want us to kill LD folks, they would allow us to avoid combat while LD.

Regarding #3, we have AWESOME staff that have been highly progressive with the game and have a proven track record spanning years.  While I don't agree with all of their changes to the game, I'm certain that if they wanted to, they could prevent LD players from getting killed in the very next patch.  I can think of 10 ways to codedly change the behavior of LD people and I'm not even a software developer (any longer).

So ask yourselves:  Why haven't they?  and Should they? 
I don't know the answers to these questions, but I find them interesting.

[brytta.leofa]

Well, the MUD really can't reliably detect linkdeadedness.  You've noticed how the lost link/reconnected messages often occur together?

The tall, muscular man has lost link.
The tall, muscular man has reconnected.

That's because ginka didn't know they were gone until they came back.

[Delstro]

I have emoted link deadness, and then went link dead and came back dead. Just so that the other player knows I really had to leave, which I did.

[musashi]

While this was way before my time, I've heard from older players that there used to be a limbo room players were whisked away to when they went link dead for a certain amount of time.

The reason that code was taken out was not because the link dead folk were abusing it. It was taken out because the jerks were going link dead, then logging back in, into the limbo room ... to wait for other people to show up link dead, to kill them.

Felt that should get a mention in light of Sinna's last post about staff and code and policy and all that.

[Ghost]

If that is the reason the limbo is taken away, that is not a good enough reason at all.

In another mud (diku), there was the limbo room but as soon as you typed something there you would automatically be yanked back to where you were limboed from (just like your "gone" status is gone when you enter something).

So there is your solution, -if- that was the problem.