IG Posts like these:
Quote
A tall muscular man was around asking for Templar Malik. He says he wants to become a soldier.. He said his name was Amos.
The boards are for rumors.. not job postings.
Thanks.
Let's think it in another way. Let's say you want to work for employer X. But you can't meet employer X, so that you're forced to write a gossip.
Let's say you're hired somehow.. Then what? The first payday, you'll not be able to meet employer X again. Will you post another gossip, "Malik seeks Employer X to receive his monthly salary."?
I agree with above. If you can't meet the employer IC, don't bother even thinking about that job. You and your employer will barely be able to meet, you'll die out of boredom, you'll retire. Useless.
The purpose of the "boards" in the game are for gossip and rumors that the entire city would be talking about. It's highly unlikely that the entire city would be talking about one average Amos looking for a job, or looking to talk to one person about one thing. Those sorts of things are better done by spreading the word through other PCs.
Now if this average Amos was doing something that really, really, really stood out, in front of loads of witnesses, something that would likely set the lips of the other average comoners yapping, that would be something that would be appropriate to post on these boards.
I think generally posts like this are made by newer players focused on joining a certain clan, and if that's the case I'd like to ENcourage those players to find a leader whose playtimes match with their own.
Also, posts where PC's who are seeking employees are generally quite helpful to new players; and I wouldn't like to see those discouraged because they form a good bridge allowing new players to start interacting with other, more established PCs.
I don't like the fact that boards are only supposed to be used for information the entire city would know. Maybe there should be a job board or something of that nature.
How about a job message NPC outside the Byn compound.
Often, there -are- Sergeants, but they're busy with their unit and don't know that a new character is trying to find them. Plus new characters SUCK with the Way and even if they're trying to contact them, might simply be failing all the time.
The job message NPC could be used for potential contracts AND would-be bynners..and could even be streamlined so it's not a typical messages board..it could be something like..
ask npc help
You can ask to JOIN, or you can ask to CONTRACT us for something.
join npc
What name do you go by? (ooc please use a contactable name, type help addkeyword for help)
Amos
contract npc
Who's looking for the contract?
Malik
Byn Sarge shows up...
ask npc news
NPC says, "Amos the green-haired young man is looking to join. Malik the stalwart brunette (Kurac) wants a contract."
NPC says, "Also outstanding is Amos the dark tall man (Borsail, contract) and Malik the dark handsome man (join)."
ask npc delete malik.dark.handsome
ask npc delete amos.dark.tall
Basically it's just giving a single line, with name, sdesc, coded clan if any (maybe that would only show up if the person is wearing a signet or other official clan Livery -and- is clanned by that clan, so the Lirathan's spy wouldn't be detected though this medium), and either contract or join.
And -only- the Sergeant or higher would be able to access the information, and delete it. Anything happening in the last 24 RL hours would be current. Anything older than the last 24 RL hours would be outstanding.
I don't know that all that new code and scripting would be needed. It's a cool idea to be sure, but I think your first idea about a seperate "I'm looking for work/workers" message board would be nice. Say, a board in the market, in a section of the market known to be where folks looking for work/workers gather. That way it would be IC for a rumor about someone needing this type of work/worker to be there.
Or simply adding something similar to the job board idea in the room of the entrance to the various clan compounds, so that they'd be regularly passed and wouldn't jumble all of the entries together. They'd all be rather concise, containing only info which relates to that particular clan. And it could be used for both looking for employees for that group, and people seeking employment. You could give it a snazzy name, too, something along the lines of:
A petite, waif-like slave stands here, dressed in House Fale colors.
A tall, muscular man stands here, wearing a runners garb and slouching by the gates.
A Kadian slave stands beside the gate, calling out news of the next seasons fashions.
etc etc etc.
Especially if they were made where, like some IG boards, you could <listen keyword> to get the messages.
Quote from: AmandaGreathouse on August 08, 2009, 10:03:35 AM
Or simply adding something similar to the job board idea in the room of the entrance to the various clan compounds, so that they'd be regularly passed and wouldn't jumble all of the entries together. They'd all be rather concise, containing only info which relates to that particular clan. And it could be used for both looking for employees for that group, and people seeking employment. You could give it a snazzy name, too, something along the lines of:
A petite, waif-like slave stands here, dressed in House Fale colors.
A tall, muscular man stands here, wearing a runners garb and slouching by the gates.
A Kadian slave stands beside the gate, calling out news of the next seasons fashions.
etc etc etc.
Especially if they were made where, like some IG boards, you could <listen keyword> to get the messages.
I like that idea. People would go to the gates, talk to the NPC there and the Agents or whoever else works for that House can see it and it makes sense.
Quote from: Kassindra on August 08, 2009, 10:12:39 AM
Quote from: AmandaGreathouse on August 08, 2009, 10:03:35 AM
Or simply adding something similar to the job board idea in the room of the entrance to the various clan compounds, so that they'd be regularly passed and wouldn't jumble all of the entries together. They'd all be rather concise, containing only info which relates to that particular clan. And it could be used for both looking for employees for that group, and people seeking employment. You could give it a snazzy name, too, something along the lines of:
A petite, waif-like slave stands here, dressed in House Fale colors.
A tall, muscular man stands here, wearing a runners garb and slouching by the gates.
A Kadian slave stands beside the gate, calling out news of the next seasons fashions.
etc etc etc.
Especially if they were made where, like some IG boards, you could <listen keyword> to get the messages.
I like that idea. People would go to the gates, talk to the NPC there and the Agents or whoever else works for that House can see it and it makes sense.
I support this idea as well!
Lizzie, I think your pretty sexy...But not as sexy as that idea you posted!
I think that would be awesome. Assuming the IMMs have time to code it.
People from buying their clothes from NPCs. You don't have to be rich to approach your local Kadian merchant. And instead of a thousand people running around in a 'dusky, green cotton cloak'... you can have cheap, unique clothing. Seriously. Like, how often do you see people in 'a purple cloth aba'? Or 'a tattered, cream colored abaya'? I'm just making those items up, by the way.
I usually see one of two things: someone in cheap, NPC vendor gear... or in super expensive silks or armor they bought from a PC. There is such a thing as buying simple clothing from PCs.
For a lot of people though, the first few moments of being in the game are nearly OOC in nature, as you run around buying the clothing you think your PC should have started the game with in the first place.
No one wants to wait on a PC for that.
Quote from: Lizzie on August 08, 2009, 09:08:27 AM
Plus new characters SUCK with the Way and even if they're trying to contact them, might simply be failing all the time.
Not anymore.
http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,35511.0.html
Anyway, I guess my main gripe about it is.. I'd rather see rumors than people looking for people. I know it's newbies a lot of times but perhaps there's some type of alternative that could be discussed and implemented? This isn't just a thread to discourage this type of behavior.. but one to spur ideas of how to fix the underlying problem. hint Hint.
A board outside each clan compound is an excellent idea.
Quote from: musashi on August 08, 2009, 10:49:52 AM
For a lot of people though, the first few moments of being in the game are nearly OOC in nature, as you run around buying the clothing you think your PC should have started the game with in the first place.
No one wants to wait on a PC for that.
Guilty. Though if I've seen the store -right- after a reboot recently, I'll generally pick the item that's been sold to it, just because it isn't the stock item.
Quote from: jcljules on August 08, 2009, 10:26:49 AM
People from buying their clothes from NPCs. You don't have to be rich to approach your local Kadian merchant.
Problem with that:
a. my characters are often too broke to afford new clothes after their "starting" equipment (and as mentioned above, I'm not going to buy my starting equipment from a PC 98% of the time). Characters start off with 1000 coins, but in my experience, that money inevitably ends up mostly in NPC hands rather than simulating the PC economy.
b. since clothes don't deteriorate, there's never a need to replace them (the worse which can happen is that they get a tag, such as a bloodied or smelly tag slapped on to them, which is easily removed... if my character cares to remove them)... Unless my character is wealthy, a trend follower, or just likes to look flashy, though most of my characters are too poor to afford that. (I could always emote out my character's clothes been torn, junk them and buy more now and then, though... might have to try that some time.)
c. even if my character did, say, lose their clothes somehow (get mugged?), many of them would just buy cheap replacements from NPCs unless they're more wealthy than your average commoner. So again, the demand is usually only coming from more wealthier characters.
e. NPCs provide a decent range of clothes, everything from rags to high quality silks. Maybe there's many "unique" or rare items out there which are rarely sold by NPCs, but as an off-peaker I often don't have the patience to find a PC merchant when NPCs usually provide everything my character would need (if not everything my characters want).
The result? I've rarely bought from a PC merchant. I'd imagine other players are put off from buying from PC merchants for similar reasons. I hope something is done to encourage buying from PC merchants, rather in this game or in Reborn.
It just takes some patience and decent PC merchants, honestly. And you're assuming the clothes to be bought would have to be expensive. That's my whole point -- you can buy cheap clothes from PC merchants. And I think we have some decent PC merchants right now.
Quote from: jcljules on August 08, 2009, 08:48:38 PM
It just takes some patience and decent PC merchants, honestly. And you're assuming the clothes to be bought would have to be expensive. That's my whole point -- you can buy cheap clothes from PC merchants. And I think we have some decent PC merchants right now.
Oh right... yeah I realise that PC crafters can make low-end items, it's just that whenever I think of "Kadius" (as you used in your example), I instantly think of "luxury goods". I think that knee-jerk reaction is partially IC though, since Kadius seems to be intentionally trying to build up a reputation of "luxurious clothes".
None the less... it still feels to me that this game encourages buying from NPCs a lot more than buying from PCs. I was intending to make a separate thread for it in fact..
Kadius already -is- synonymous with luxury clothes. It doesn't have to "build a reputation" for it. But, they have shops north, south, in one village and in one outpost, that offer things -other- than silk, that they make, specifically for commoners.
The PCs who represent that particular house can sell you the SAME THINGS for less than you have to pay for them in the shop. The only caveat: you have to ask them to do so.
It's the same thing with Salarr. Sure, you could buy a full outfit of Salarr-made armor at the Salarr shop. But if you have an -active- Salarr merchant PC who is out and about, and looking to profit, you can buy the same damned suit of armor for less if you'd just offer to buy it from the PC.
Of course, if you can find exactly what you're looking for at some -other- place cheaper, then go for it. But if you're looking for a GMH-made item, and it's shortly after game reset so people with full closets haven't had a chance to unload all their stuff in the markets yet, then you'll save yourself a bundle by simply asking your local PC GMH merchant for the item in question.
The hardest part, after finding your merchant, is making sure they understand what you want, and asking them for something they actually make/sell. Another thing - if it's something you, the player, know that they sell, because you played a merchant 10 years ago and remember creating it, but it never sold and has never been offered since, it is entirely possible that even the staff has no idea this item exists, and the player of the current merchant PC probably doesn't know it exists, and will probably assume it doesn't exist and that your PC is just being difficult.
So if you have to go OOC and say "ooc it's the green-trimmed purple-laced pink polkadotted paisely silk shirt" then do it. It'll save everyone a whole lot of headaches.
My experience with PC merchants (including GMH merchants) is that you more or less have to (1) verify they can make the sort of item you want, (2) bring them the necessary material(s), (3) negotiate a deal and (4) insist that they do the work more or less on the spot.
Otherwise you just never even hear back from them.
Maybe they just don't like your character and wouldn't get back to you unless they had to :)
Quote from: Lizzie on August 08, 2009, 11:02:08 PM
Maybe they just don't like your character and wouldn't get back to you unless they had to :)
That's very possible. It's happened across a few characters though. I don't think they were -all- obnoxious.
Quote from: Salt Merchant on August 08, 2009, 11:04:38 PM
Quote from: Lizzie on August 08, 2009, 11:02:08 PM
Maybe they just don't like your character and wouldn't get back to you unless they had to :)
That's very possible. It's happened across a few characters though. I don't think they were -all- obnoxious.
Well they are all played by the same player ;) (Joke, joke)
Buying from PC merchants is all good and well, but the fact remains that 9 times out of 10 they take at least several RL weeks to get back to you with your order while they "wait to get it from the warehouse" ... ie, email the staff, wait for the staff to load the item, and then bump into you again. This isn't the merchant's fault, it's just the way it's done. But because of that, no one wants to typically buy a common item from a PC merchant, and wait weeks on end for it just to save a few 'sid. Most would rather just get it right now from an NPC vendor. This sort of regulates merchants to selling high end "you can't buy it at a shop" items and sales of opportunity, like catching folks while they're shopping in the markets and offering them the goods they're looking for right now at a cheaper price.
It really depends on the item. Lots of stuff is "in stock" already. Meaning, in the GMH estate, there's an NPC where the PC merchant gets orders from. That NPC is -already- loaded with common typical stuff, plus, often, they even have stuff that had been previously "special ordered" for customers who were never around to receive them.
Hopefully, your PC merchant will have the sense to say "Let me take a look and get back to you on whether or not it's in stock." If they don't, then ask them to do that. Tell them it's something you'd like to pick up the same RL day. You can even go to the public shop, find your PC merchant's mind, say "Y'know what pal-o-mine, your merchant in your shop is demanding 500 sids for this doodad. I -know- you would do me better since I've been giving you sexual favors for months now. Any chance you could swing around and give me a better deal?"
And ya know what - if the PC isn't busy, and if she really enjoyed those sexual favors, she'll probably enjoy even more making a few sids off that item in the shop. The shop-keeper will make the necessary sids for their house, she'll make a little profit, you get the item cheaper, roleplay occurs, everyone wins.
I'd also like to discourage going against documentation.. I keep seeing things IG that irk me.
If you want something changed, ask your clan imms, otherwise.. stick to docs (or be the crazy person we all know you are).
I think going against the docs is fine. If you want to play a half-elf rights activist, cool.
Just don't act surprised when people look at you like you're insane.
Quote from: musashi on August 09, 2009, 03:29:55 PM
I think going against the docs is fine. If you want to play a half-elf rights activist, cool.
Just don't act surprised when people look at you like you're insane.
This. And don't hesitate to animate VNPC's to back the point.
See now I don't agree about going against the docs. This should be rare, unusual. Not common place by any stretch. If you're going to rp against the docs and expect other people to react, it is a little like saying you're not going against the docs at all. I think if you're going to go against the docs and not wanting to be considered to be rping poorly than the responsibility is on you to make it clear that what you're doing isn't the norm. That could be by having vnpcs react poorly to you yourself, or any other number of creative ways.
Quote from: UnderSeven on August 09, 2009, 04:35:56 PM
See now I don't agree about going against the docs. This should be rare, unusual. Not common place by any stretch. If you're going to rp against the docs and expect other people to react, it is a little like saying you're not going against the docs at all. I think if you're going to go against the docs and not wanting to be considered to be rping poorly than the responsibility is on you to make it clear that what you're doing isn't the norm. That could be by having vnpcs react poorly to you yourself, or any other number of creative ways.
Pretty much. Yup.
I'd like to discourage people spamwalking/fleeing instantly from raiders. If a raider takes the time to make an emote or two and not outright attack you, it should be obvious they are more interested in playing a scene and would probably rather not kill you.
I've seen several successful mugging/raids lately. Kudos to both sides.
I'd like to discourage people from thinking creating good plots is anywhere close to taking a small situation and blowing way out of proportion!
Good plots can be planned or unplanned -- but they grow with a naturally-flowing building of suspense and interest. They're rounded and rational; they do not force someone to drag themselves into it.
Regrettably, some people feel simply dragging more people into squabbles and petty fighting creates for heavy plots. For instance, "You're PC looked at me funny so now we must be mortal enemies" This type of crap doesn't create good plots, just tedious and needless stress (like watching Teen drama)
Quote from: My 2 sids on September 19, 2009, 01:41:18 AM
I'd like to discourage people from thinking creating good plots is anywhere close to taking a small situation and blowing way out of proportion!
Good plots can be planned or unplanned -- but they grow with a naturally-flowing building of suspense and interest. They're rounded and rational; they do not force someone to drag themselves into it.
Regrettably, some people feel simply dragging more people into squabbles and petty fighting creates for heavy plots. For instance, "You're PC looked at me funny so now we must be mortal enemies" This type of crap doesn't create good plots, just tedious and needless stress (like watching Teen drama)
Sometimes you just need to scratch that boredom itch, man.
Quote from: Synthesis on September 19, 2009, 01:47:26 AM
Sometimes you just need to scratch that boredom itch, man.
Other people aren't bored. Better to die to Insect #285 or link-death than because some
lousy player got "bored"
Quote from: My 2 sids on September 19, 2009, 01:54:49 AM
Quote from: Synthesis on September 19, 2009, 01:47:26 AM
Sometimes you just need to scratch that boredom itch, man.
Other people aren't bored. Better to die to Insect #285 or link-death than because some lousy player got "bored"
O rly?
at least then it's a regrettable part of the game.
If you're PC dies in some awesome storyline -- wonderful
If your PC dies (or is rendered unplayable) because someone "was bored" -- that's just irritating.
Quote from: My 2 sids on September 19, 2009, 02:07:39 AM
at least then it's a regrettable part of the game.
If you're PC dies in some awesome storyline -- wonderful
If your PC dies (or is rendered unplayable) because someone "was bored" -- that's just irritating Armageddon.
Quote from: My 2 sids on September 19, 2009, 01:41:18 AM
I'd like to discourage people from thinking creating good plots is anywhere close to taking a small situation and blowing way out of proportion!
Good plots can be planned or unplanned -- but they grow with a naturally-flowing building of suspense and interest. They're rounded and rational; they do not force someone to drag themselves into it.
Regrettably, some people feel simply dragging more people into squabbles and petty fighting creates for heavy plots. For instance, "You're PC looked at me funny so now we must be mortal enemies" This type of crap doesn't create good plots, just tedious and needless stress (like watching Teen drama)
Yeah cause in real life, petty squabbles never happen and never lead to murder or anything interesting. Also sometimes good plots start with randomness. You walk in one someone doing some fucked up shit. What flow of what and what?
Seriously true. The best plots I've ever been involved in came around because of "monkey wrenches" thrown into the story. I think that is the foundation of the best plotlines I've ever been involved in with this game. If you don't enjoy the "monkey wrenches" thrown into your plans, then you're missing out, IMHO.
They make them more believable and enjoyable than those that feel "planned out" with a definite ending in mind from the beginning.
Noone is ever really "forced" into anything, you always have a choice within the role you are playing that may or may not be a positive thing as far as your character's wellbeing is concerned.
I'd like to discourage spamwalking, period. You never know who is watching you, following you, stealing from you, trying to backstab you, trying to type shadow... there might be IMMs trying to send you a room echo and start some plot or other... there's so much interaction you could be missing out on. Be patient. Take a second or two in between every room.
I would discourage the use of "ooc" over the Way, *if* the person you're waying is in the same room. Obviously you can't use the OOC command with someone you're not with. Just don't expect a response, if it's with someone new to their character who has enormous stun drains just trying to find your mind to say "ooc yeah."
Players of new characters have enormous stun drains using the Way/Psi/Contact/Barrier - and busting into that just to tell their -player- something while your characters are sitting at the same table is just very very annoying. If you need to use OOC for someone you are sitting with, use OOC, not the Way. If you want to use OOC with that person away from the crowd, you can ICly ask them to join you somewhere else, and then OOC to your heart's content in the backroom or something.
I'd like to discourage people saying something OOC before they get PK'd.
Seriously, I don't care if your character is getting killed because of an IC misunderstanding, or if he's got five billion days played-- pleading OOC will just make me feel bad about it OOC. It's not gonna save you.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 19, 2009, 02:48:25 PM
I'd like to discourage people saying something OOC before they get PK'd.
Seriously, I don't care if your character is getting likked because of an IC misunderstanding, or if he's got five billion days played-- pleading OOC will just make me feel bad about it OOC. It's not gonna save you.
I had someone tell me my roleplaying sucked before in an OOC. I wasn't going to kill them until they said that.
I simply discourage the use of ooc. Period. Before you type in ooc, stop, think it over, and ask yourself if it really is necessary.
Again, the only time I like to ooc is for recruiting someone in a clan, or sorting out ooc dates for planned events.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 19, 2009, 02:48:25 PM
I'd like to discourage people saying something OOC before they get PK'd.
Seriously, I don't care if your character is getting killed because of an IC misunderstanding, or if he's got five billion days played-- pleading OOC will just make me feel bad about it OOC. It's not gonna save you.
Wow, that shit is wrong. I've never yet PK'ed anyone and I've had plenty of times, already, where I already felt bad OOC about the fucked up shit my PC was doing to someone else. But I think I'd probably feel bad enough OOC in that situation it would just push me over the edge into being pissed OOC that the other player would do that.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 19, 2009, 02:48:25 PM
I'd like to discourage people saying something OOC before they get PK'd.
Seriously, I don't care if your character is getting killed because of an IC misunderstanding, or if he's got five billion days played-- pleading OOC will just make me feel bad about it OOC. It's not gonna save you.
Arr, I be surprised this even happens. I be feelin' a bit sea-sick when I kill in game already, and I don't need insults and pleas from the person walkin' the plank to make it worse.
Quote from: Cutthroat on September 19, 2009, 07:31:22 PM
Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 19, 2009, 02:48:25 PM
I'd like to discourage people saying something OOC before they get PK'd.
Seriously, I don't care if your character is getting killed because of an IC misunderstanding, or if he's got five billion days played-- pleading OOC will just make me feel bad about it OOC. It's not gonna save you.
Arr, I be surprised this even happens. I be feelin' a bit sea-sick when I kill in game already, and I don't need insults and pleas from the person walkin' the plank to make it worse.
This kind of thing would make me feel really guilty.
ooc please man... armageddon is all i have... my real life is boring... please don't kill my PC :'(
I generally welcome PK. Seeing as I'm always killed by mobs.
No, I don't think it would be appropriate to plead OOCly to not kill one's character.
However, I do want to discourage the myth that everyone creates 200+ throw-away characters.
Players, if it's truly worth the PK than there isn't any guilt to feel. However, there are other ways to deal problems than PK -- so some players should feel a bit of guilt about whipping around PC power and killing off a player's PC. REMEMBER even IC enslavement/ maiming provides more avenues for plot development than perma-death.
Give me death over death by dismemberment and an inability to do anything with my PC.
Depending on the how and why of the PK, I might feel vaguely guilty (probably not, though). The moment a player OOC whined about it, not only would my vague guilt evaporate, but I'd send a player complaint as soon as I was done beheading them, peeing on their corpse, and selling their boots.
I've never seen anyone ask ooc to be spared.
Quote from: KankWhisperer on September 19, 2009, 11:24:27 PM
I've never seen anyone ask ooc to be spared.
You aren't killing them hard enough.
Quote from: My 2 sids on September 19, 2009, 01:41:18 AMI'd like to discourage people from thinking creating good plots is anywhere close to taking a small situation and blowing way out of proportion!
Good plots can be planned or unplanned -- but they grow with a naturally-flowing building of suspense and interest. They're rounded and rational; they do not force someone to drag themselves into it.
Regrettably, some people feel simply dragging more people into squabbles and petty fighting creates for heavy plots. For instance, "You're PC looked at me funny so now we must be mortal enemies" This type of crap doesn't create good plots, just tedious and needless stress (like watching Teen drama)
QFT
^ Yessssss.
I can't count how many times I have been annoyed by "plots" that seemed forced and over-dramatic, especially in an otherwise gritty, dog-eat-dog desert world where there's far more important - and deadly - things to worry about.
OH MY GOD THE GUY I SLEPT WITH ONCE AND HAVE KNOWN FOR THREE WEEKS DIED AND NOW I WANT TO COMMIT SUICIDE WAAAAH WAAAH OH HEY LOOK I'M PREGNANT WITH HIS CHILD WAAAAH
I'd like to discourage more and more incarceration killings. Chop my char's hand(s) off, exile him, do something!
Quote from: Delstro on September 19, 2009, 09:49:17 PM
Give me death over death by dismemberment and an inability to do anything with my PC.
Quote from: Gobbleneck on September 20, 2009, 11:32:04 AM
I'd like to discourage more and more incarceration killings. Chop my char's hand off, exile him, do something!
This just made me laugh. Delstro + Gobbleneck as incompetent criminals? Comedy gold.
"Just cut off my arm!" "No, just kill me!"
If the person has time to type OOC: --- or any other command then you were doing it wrong and they were never a big enough threat to need pking in the first place! Haha just kidding... kind of.
People complaining about pk OOC is by far my biggest pet peeve on armageddon over the past year. People whine on the boards, use the complaint tool and kick up a stupid shit storm over a legitimate part of the game - assuming the pk was done with good IC motivation yadda yadda yadda. Which it generally is, in my experience anyways.
I killed a couple pc's with a character of mine over the past years that were vastly superior and more powerful from both IC' and OOC perspectives that made complaints because 'they killed them too fast' or 'they didn't have a good reason' - when really their complaint should have been directed to themselves for engaging in behaviour that made them vulnerable in a place where they knew people/someone wouldn't like them or be after them. This whole sense of 'if I get pk'd, I better have a chance to defend myself or at least emote for an hour' is absurd. If someone has a reason to kill your pc, whether you think it's a good reason or not, taking your pc down by whatever means necessary is part of the game and a pretty fun, intense part of the game.
It's just really funny because there's all this toting of phrases like, 'you can't win the game' directed at the pk-er but it's never considered when someone is crying over their pc that they just lost. Make a new character and enjoy the game, you're playing armageddon, not '-character's name-'.
maybe I'm just bitchy
Quote from: roughneck on September 20, 2009, 12:15:11 PM
If the person has time to type OOC: --- or any other command then you were doing it wrong and they were never a big enough threat to need pking in the first place! Haha just kidding... kind of.
People complaining about pk OOC is by far my biggest pet peeve on armageddon over the past year. People whine on the boards, use the complaint tool and kick up a stupid shit storm over a legitimate part of the game - assuming the pk was done with good IC motivation yadda yadda yadda. Which it generally is, in my experience anyways.
I killed a couple pc's with a character of mine over the past years that were vastly superior and more powerful from both IC' and OOC perspectives that made complaints because 'they killed them too fast' or 'they didn't have a good reason' - when really their complaint should have been directed to themselves for engaging in behaviour that made them vulnerable in a place where they knew people/someone wouldn't like them or be after them. This whole sense of 'if I get pk'd, I better have a chance to defend myself or at least emote for an hour' is absurd. If someone has a reason to kill your pc, whether you think it's a good reason or not, taking your pc down by whatever means necessary is part of the game and a pretty fun, intense part of the game.
It's just really funny because there's all this toting of phrases like, 'you can't win the game' directed at the pk-er but it's never considered when someone is crying over their pc that they just lost. Make a new character and enjoy the game, you're playing armageddon, not '-character's name-'.
maybe I'm just bitchy
QFT.
'Steal'ing repeatedly from a conscious and standing person (and failing to boot) in the middle of the desert with little or no cover in the middle of the day in clear weather.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on September 21, 2009, 07:43:34 AM
'Steal'ing repeatedly (and failing to boot) from someone in the middle of the desert with little or no cover in the middle of the day in clear weather.
An unkempt, weather-worn hunter shouts, in sirihish:
"Thief! Thief!"
An unkempt, weather-worn hunter shouts, in sirihish:
"Thief! Thief!"
An unkempt, weather-worn hunter shouts, in sirihish:
"Thief! Thief!"
An unkempt, weather-worn hunter shouts, in sirihish:
"Thief! Thief!"
A dark-shelled scrab has arrived from the south.
A kryl has arrived from the east, riding a ruddy-brown mekillot.
A gortok has arrived from the north.
A dujat has arrived from the west.
>sneak
>hide
>s
I'd like to discourage the overuse of connectectives in descriptions. Such as... "attached to his torso are big arms; sprouting from them, tiny fingers" and etc. etc.
I just >looked at a certain player and it it read like their character was Mister Potato Head.
Quote from: Gobbleneck on September 22, 2009, 12:06:32 AM
I'd like to discourage the overuse of connectectives in descriptions. Such as... "attached to his torso are big arms; sprouting from them, tiny fingers" and etc. etc.
I just >looked at a certain player and it it read like their character was Mister Potato Head.
LOL
Quote from: Gobbleneck on September 22, 2009, 12:06:32 AM
I'd like to discourage the overuse of connectectives in descriptions. Such as... "attached to his torso are big arms; sprouting from them, tiny fingers" and etc. etc.
:hangs head in shame.
edit: I recant my shame. Looking over http://www.armageddon.org/myaccount/displayBio.php, and it turns out my saved descs aren't all that bad. I think the 'arms attached to shoulders, spouting growths of thick fingers on well-weathered hands. His legs have feet.' syndrome is something I suffered from on earlier characters, due to an example character I remember in an ancient 'how to write character desc' tutorial. It might still be on the website or old forum somewhere.
Quote from: Gobbleneck on September 22, 2009, 12:06:32 AM
I'd like to discourage the overuse of connectectives in descriptions. Such as... "attached to his torso are big arms; sprouting from them, tiny fingers" and etc. etc.
I just >looked at a certain player and it it read like their character was Mister Potato Head.
One of my favourite awful mdescs from a couple years back was formatted like this, and it ended with "two legs sprout from his torso, and attached to each is a foot."
... REALLY? You don't say.
Quote from: Fathi on September 22, 2009, 06:08:00 AM
One of my favourite awful mdescs from a couple years back was formatted like this, and it ended with "two legs sprout from his torso, and attached to each is a foot."
... REALLY? You don't say.
Was he from UnderTuluk? Because down there, you never know...
I once saw a guy some years ago who's description was gigantic, though it only described his head and referenced no other part of his body even remotely. His sdesc as well was only head-based.. I always imagined that guy as a tiny, floating head. I laughed every time he walked into the bar.
I'd like to discourage sdesc/mdesc hookups that don't correspond with each other.
Example
the sleek, brown-eyed woman.
mdesc:
Here's a woman with long tanned legs and arms, and a curvy torso. She has dark-tressed tresses that end in a tressy tumble down at her waist. She has bodaceous tatas and grabable hips, flaring from a tiny waist. She has the obligatory tiny scar, almost unnoticeable, under her left ear but otherwise has flawless skin.
Notice - nowhere in her main desc does she mention her eyes, and, her main desc implies that she is anything BUT sleek.
It isn't that the sdesc has to have the exact same words as the main desc, but one needs to include a description of the other. When that woman's hood is up, and someone is trying to describe her, NO ONE would ever guess that she was the sleek, brown-eyed woman. No one would be even capable of describing her as such, even if she was buck naked except for a veil that showed ONLY her eyes.
What color eyes did she have? I dunno. Well could you see them? Yep, sure could, her veil only covered her nose down. Then how come you couldn't tell me what color eyes she had? Uh, cause she didn't put them in her main desc. Well what body type did she have? Ah - curvy, robust, fleshy, the kind you'd wanna bend over and grab. Great tits and ass. So we're looking for the eyeless curvy woman? Yeah.
And now she gets away with pretty much anything other than the crim-code, all because her sdesc has nothing to do with her mdesc.
Most times I think this isn't intentional. But it is something people really need to be aware of when they're creating their characters.
Quote from: Lizzie on September 22, 2009, 08:04:12 AM
I'd like to discourage sdesc/mdesc hookups that don't correspond with each other.
I really want to do nasty things to PCs like this that will end in them being forced to make new PC.
Quote from: Lizzie on September 22, 2009, 08:04:12 AM
Most times I think this isn't intentional. But it is something people really need to be aware of when they're creating their characters.
I think for the most part it is intentional - though whether or not they do so for the express purpose of avoiding description by others, or to "be different" (in the same way people scour the dictionary for cool and unusual jargon) is anyone's guess.
But since this is a "I'd like to discourage..." thread and not a "I agree with you totally..." thread, here's my 2 cents:
Do not use a fancy, pretty word straight out of the dictionary unless you are ABSOLUTELY certain of what it means. I'd like to discourage the apping of the man "with stark gray locks adorning his well-tanned, unscarred cervix" as well as "the celluloid-scarred man."
What about those massive, 2 page descriptions? It says 4-10 lines for a reason.
Quote from: Versu on September 22, 2009, 12:07:34 PM
What about those massive, 2 page descriptions? It says 4-10 lines for a reason.
Amen.
You guys actually read mDescs?
I do. Bigger the better.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on September 22, 2009, 03:17:10 PM
Quote from: Versu on September 22, 2009, 12:07:34 PM
What about those massive, 2 page descriptions? It says 4-10 lines for a reason.
Amen.
QFT. When a description is under ten lines, I almost always read it and try to visualize the character. When its over ten lines, I don't.
Quote from: Zoltan on September 22, 2009, 04:59:36 PM
I do. Bigger the better.
I like imagining some details myself. It's not the size of the boat, but the motion of the ocean. I'm sure that phrase was invented for mdescs... I think...
Mis-spelling your sdesc. Like... three times I saw it I typoed it. But soon after gave up. It's very hard to do nowadays. Red dotted lines means you got something wrong!
Quote from: Adieren on September 22, 2009, 09:02:50 PM
Mis-spelling your sdesc. Like... three times I saw it I typoed it. But soon after gave up. It's very hard to do nowadays. Red dotted lines means you got something wrong!
Some common errors I've seen in sdescs over the past long while:
haird -> haired
weatherd -> weathered
khol -> kohl
Placing commas can make or break your sdesc. "the bright green-eyed woman" and "the bright, green-eyed woman" are two different things.
Quote from: Cutthroat on September 22, 2009, 09:06:43 PM
Quote from: Adieren on September 22, 2009, 09:02:50 PM
Mis-spelling your sdesc. Like... three times I saw it I typoed it. But soon after gave up. It's very hard to do nowadays. Red dotted lines means you got something wrong!
Some common errors I've seen in sdescs over the past long while:
haird -> haired
weatherd -> weathered
khol -> kohl
Placing commas can make or break your sdesc. "the bright green-eyed woman" and "the bright, green-eyed woman" are two different things.
Try having to work closely with someone who has a glaring typo in her sdesc, and every time you see it, you die a little on the inside.
LOL
...staff members from approving PCs with glaring typos in their short descriptions just to be nice. If I had a glaring typo in my short description, I'd want to be corrected as to not look dumb.
Quote from: jcljules on September 22, 2009, 10:04:22 PM
...staff members from approving PCs with glaring typos in their short descriptions just to be nice. If I had a glaring typo in my short description, I'd want to be corrected as to not look dumb.
Probably an oversight. I've had an sdesc tweaked-and-approved in one step by staff before.
On one of my PC's, an entire line of their mdesc was edited out and replaced. Though the change wasn't heartbreaking, nor did I consent to it, but it still gave me a little urge on the inside; "Did he really do that? WTFM8?!"
You know who you are, Mr "Perfectly suited ears for a dwarf!"
In the end, it didn't much matter. I enjoyed the PC after that tremendously.
I typo PC descriptions all the time... even had one of mine fixed because someone typoed it.
Quote from: brytta.leofa on September 23, 2009, 09:16:19 AM
Quote from: jcljules on September 22, 2009, 10:04:22 PM
...staff members from approving PCs with glaring typos in their short descriptions just to be nice. If I had a glaring typo in my short description, I'd want to be corrected as to not look dumb.
Probably an oversight. I've had an sdesc tweaked-and-approved in one step by staff before.
I've had a m-description where I forgot to .c and ended up having a whole page of two of the same descriptions. And it got accepted.
It was horrible...
Quote from: Gobbleneck on September 23, 2009, 02:11:42 PM
I've had a m-description where I forgot to .c and ended up having a whole page of two of the same descriptions. And it got accepted.
It was horrible...
Although not recent, I've seen this before. God(dess) bless the Staff though, for what they do, even if some mistakes do occasionally slip through.
I had a mdesc changed to be ungrammatically correct after it was adjusted for having the measurement "inches" on it. Even though in the docs it says inches are perfectly legit. Made me sad, but I didn't want to change the desc over that. :'(
My mdesc is bigger than Zoltan's mdesc. :o
Quote from: Jdr on September 23, 2009, 04:20:24 PM
My mdesc is bigger than Zoltan's mdesc. :o
*compares length and girth... eventually* :-*
I dislike long mdescs. I also dislike long eq lists, and eq lists that have items of wildly varying sdesc lengths stacked on top of each other, for example 'a red rose' on top of 'a dusty pair of chitin-ribbed leather sleeves.'
Sometimes life gets a little stressful.
You know, Laura, that same stuff bothers me. I'd like to discourage me from being bothered by it! :)
Quote from: LauraMars on September 24, 2009, 09:26:38 AM
eq lists that have items of wildly varying sdesc lengths stacked on top of each other, for example 'a red rose' on top of 'a dusty pair of chitin-ribbed leather sleeves'
Oh my God. I dress my PCs in such a way that this happens minimally, it annoys me so much.
Quote from: Cutthroat on September 24, 2009, 11:46:27 AM
Quote from: LauraMars on September 24, 2009, 09:26:38 AM
eq lists that have items of wildly varying sdesc lengths stacked on top of each other, for example 'a red rose' on top of 'a dusty pair of chitin-ribbed leather sleeves'
Oh my God. I dress my PCs in such a way that this happens minimally, it annoys me so much.
And here I thought I was the only one.
I do it on purpose sometimes.
;)
Quote from: Ourla on September 24, 2009, 11:49:55 AM
Quote from: Cutthroat on September 24, 2009, 11:46:27 AM
Quote from: LauraMars on September 24, 2009, 09:26:38 AM
eq lists that have items of wildly varying sdesc lengths stacked on top of each other, for example 'a red rose' on top of 'a dusty pair of chitin-ribbed leather sleeves'
Oh my God. I dress my PCs in such a way that this happens minimally, it annoys me so much.
And here I thought I was the only one.
Praise be to closed cloaks. I normally don't mind ... except when people were a ring on every single finger ... that's ... just jesus ...
Everyone know a large staggered eq list means you're char is GG.
I'd like to discourage using death and destruction as the answer to problems. There are so many more creative solutions that can be so much more satisfying.
I would like to discourage the sharing of OOC information - from players knowing who is playing which characters, to players knowing details of plots they are not involved in and player's characters knowing secrets that their characters have no right in knowing.
It frustrates me to no end.
Quote from: brytta.leofa on September 23, 2009, 09:16:19 AM
Quote from: jcljules on September 22, 2009, 10:04:22 PM
...staff members from approving PCs with glaring typos in their short descriptions just to be nice. If I had a glaring typo in my short description, I'd want to be corrected as to not look dumb.
Probably an oversight. I've had an sdesc tweaked-and-approved in one step by staff before.
An oversight. I spell check every app I approve and fix the typos.
Quote from: Thistle on September 24, 2009, 02:41:11 PM
Quote from: brytta.leofa on September 23, 2009, 09:16:19 AM
Quote from: jcljules on September 22, 2009, 10:04:22 PM
...staff members from approving PCs with glaring typos in their short descriptions just to be nice. If I had a glaring typo in my short description, I'd want to be corrected as to not look dumb.
Probably an oversight. I've had an sdesc tweaked-and-approved in one step by staff before.
An oversight. I spell check every app I approve and fix the typos.
I wish you had approved said person that I have to interact with.
Typo'd them yet?
I typo'd a 2 RL year old noble a few months ago. 8)
Quote from: Ourla on September 24, 2009, 11:49:55 AM
Quote from: Cutthroat on September 24, 2009, 11:46:27 AM
Quote from: LauraMars on September 24, 2009, 09:26:38 AM
eq lists that have items of wildly varying sdesc lengths stacked on top of each other, for example 'a red rose' on top of 'a dusty pair of chitin-ribbed leather sleeves'
Oh my God. I dress my PCs in such a way that this happens minimally, it annoys me so much.
And here I thought I was the only one.
What frustrates me to no end is when the uniform your PC
has to wear ends up buggering up your whole eq list, i.e. Corporals in the Cap'n Muckballs clan having to wear both "a black sandcloth cloak" on their body and then "a blue shoulder patch with a droopy pair of embroidered muckballs" on their shoulder.
Whyyyyyy, imms. :(
Quote from: Thistle on September 24, 2009, 02:41:11 PM
Quote from: brytta.leofa on September 23, 2009, 09:16:19 AM
Quote from: jcljules on September 22, 2009, 10:04:22 PM
...staff members from approving PCs with glaring typos in their short descriptions just to be nice. If I had a glaring typo in my short description, I'd want to be corrected as to not look dumb.
Probably an oversight. I've had an sdesc tweaked-and-approved in one step by staff before.
An oversight. I spell check every app I approve and fix the typos.
I'd like to discourage staff members from having oversights. >:(
;D
Quote from: jcljules on September 24, 2009, 07:27:51 PM
Quote from: Thistle on September 24, 2009, 02:41:11 PM
Quote from: brytta.leofa on September 23, 2009, 09:16:19 AM
Quote from: jcljules on September 22, 2009, 10:04:22 PM
...staff members from approving PCs with glaring typos in their short descriptions just to be nice. If I had a glaring typo in my short description, I'd want to be corrected as to not look dumb.
Probably an oversight. I've had an sdesc tweaked-and-approved in one step by staff before.
An oversight. I spell check every app I approve and fix the typos.
I'd like to discourage staff members from having oversights. >:(
;D
Wow
you forgot
death warrant /signed
I'd like to ... -encourage- being able to keep the OOCness and ICness apart. Yes, A might've horribly raped/mutilated/insert-other-horrible-things B, but please don't bear OOC grudge over something that happens IC, and blow it out of context all in the name of ICness (because it's not, and it's obvious).
Then post on the boards complaining about it.
Kthxbai.
Silken haired commoners.
Really, you're a commoner stop emoting about your silken hair, unblemished milky-hued skin and jeweled encrusted eyes. Washing hair with water is a waste and besides, there are NO PANTIENE CONDITIONER ON ARM!
EDIT: I would also like to encourage the idea that plump is SEXAY. Lithe, slender, slim, lissome, willowy, delicate is not for an average female human commoner. Lithe = skinny, skinny = piss poor and probably got a unhealthy womb for weak kids.
Outdoor folks like delves? Scarred = hawtness. Scars = this elven hunter must be tough! He could slay a giant, two-headed dujat with one hand tied behind his back. That means.......he could give strong babies!
This is Zalanthas folks, not Zollywood.
Quote from: Me on September 25, 2009, 04:42:48 AM
Silken haired commoners.
Really, you're a commoner stop emoting about your silken hair, unblemished milky-hued skin and jeweled encrusted eyes. Washing hair with water is a waste and besides, there are NO PANTIENE CONDITIONER ON ARM!
EDIT: I would also like to encourage the idea that plump is SEXAY. Lithe, slender, slim, lissome, willowy, delicate is not for an average female human commoner. Lithe = skinny, skinny = piss poor and probably got a unhealthy womb for weak kids.
Outdoor folks like delves? Scarred = hawtness. Scars = this elven hunter must be tough! He could slay a giant, two-headed dujat with one hand tied behind his back. That means.......he could give strong babies!
This is Zalanthas folks, not Zollywood.
Love this post but then again I'm a HUGE fan of playing ugly characters. I hate seeing perfect PCs but then again that's just me. To each his own.
Plump is sexy IRL. Just enough though.
Brandon
eggs = protein = silken hair salt = facial scrub = soft skin
Just so everyone understands where a PC could get silken hair, so yes, there would be beauty treatments available. (if it is IC for them to do such things)
Honestly. Hair wouldn't look so bad if it were washed once every few weeks- provided said pc's hair was used to it. And most bits of grime and grit could be brushed away. If women were to keep their hair from hanging down, and styled that also helps.
You can't always help what color your eyes are. As my three year old niece said when asked what color her eyes are, "Grey, but I didn't color them."
And as for skin... lots of things tie into that. Resiliency to the sun, adaptability of parents, lifestyle, history. If your whole family line were merchants and you never had to step outside without a little parasol, you're going to be soft and maybe a little more pale. You'd also get sunburnt some. After a few years in the sun, you'd develop a tan rather than the constant sunburn.
Quote from: Adieren on September 25, 2009, 12:33:42 PM
Honestly. Hair wouldn't look so bad if it were washed once every few weeks- provided said pc's hair was used to it. And most bits of grime and grit could be brushed away. If women were to keep their hair from hanging down, and styled that also helps.
You can't always help what color your eyes are. As my three year old niece said when asked what color her eyes are, "Grey, but I didn't color them."
And as for skin... lots of things tie into that. Resiliency to the sun, adaptability of parents, lifestyle, history. If your whole family line were merchants and you never had to step outside without a little parasol, you're going to be soft and maybe a little more pale. You'd also get sunburnt some. After a few years in the sun, you'd develop a tan rather than the constant sunburn.
Except commoners aren't using water to wash, period. Nobles and templars and some merchants do, but not average commoners. Commoners
drink water and would be shocked at the suggestion of someone at their station wasting it to wash. Water for washing is an incredible luxury item.
Also, eye color: Should not be blue or green nearly as often as it is. Blue and green make up about 60% of average commoner eye colors, which is silly. Pick brown more often, folks.
Skin also: Be darker, people. Brown to black. Stop making all PCs be simply "tan." Tan is just a way of saying "I'm still white!"
Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 25, 2009, 12:51:08 PM
Except commoners aren't using water to wash, period. Nobles and templars and some merchants do, but not average commoners. Commoners drink water and would be shocked at the suggestion of someone at their station wasting it to wash. Water for washing is an incredible luxury item.
Also, eye color: Should not be blue or green nearly as often as it is. Blue and green make up about 60% of average commoner eye colors, which is silly. Pick brown more often, folks.
Skin also: Be darker, people. Brown to black. Stop making all PCs be simply "tan." Tan is just a way of saying "I'm still white!"
Most of my characters are always brown-skinned... just the way I roll.
That being said... I LOVE having green eyes. Is that a bad thing? Though I have had a character with eyes described in his mdesc as 'shit-brown'.
Brandon
It's not a bad thing to make a PC with green eyes, but it is a bad thing to make every PC with green eyes. Zalanthas is supposed to be a place where darker-colored people are more dominant, due to the effects of the sun. Dark skin, dark hair, and dark eyes are genetically linked on Earth; just as light skin, light hair, and light eyes are linked. These attributes are linked because populations which lived farther north mutated, over time, toward lightness so that they could absorb more vitamin D from the sun. Now, who knows why darkness is selected on Zalanthas and lightness is mostly only seen in the north? We don't really exactly know, but until it's clear otherwise, I'm gonna assume that it's vitamin D, because it makes sense.
So no, we don't have to make every single PC we play with brown hair / brown eyes / brown skin, but we should all make an effort when we are playing average commoner PCs to trend toward average commonerness. IMO, obviously.
Something interesting... what if most of the vnpcs looked common. Would that be why our PCs stand out specifically?
I'd like to discourage players thinking their PCs always are the exception to the norm or the rule. The virtual world is not put there so that we can be different from it.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 25, 2009, 01:25:31 PM
I'd like to discourage players thinking their PCs always are the exception to the norm or the rule. The virtual world is not put there so that we can be different from it.
QFT
Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 25, 2009, 01:25:31 PM
I'd like to discourage players thinking their PCs always are the exception to the norm or the rule. The virtual world is not put there so that we can be different from it.
Or, like the backdrop of almost every adventure in the world, maybe it is?
Only you can decide!
I think being different from the virtual world would logically more often lead to negative outcomes for PCs; thus, if you want to play a "stand out" PC, choose characteristics that will make you stand out in a bad way. Like being a mutant, or having no teeth at all, or being a magicker, or being naturally traitorous rather than upstandingly loyal, or simply being heinously ugly. But most of the time the "but PCs are the exceptions" idea is invoked to cover PC characteristics that are good and beneficial, such as being real-world attractive, or having a lot of coins as an indie, etc.
You folks really get hung up on some crazy shit, sometimes.
It's okay, super-long mdescs+eq lists make my eyes bleed, too.
Quote from: a strange shadow on September 25, 2009, 02:46:32 PM
You folks really get hung up on some crazy shit, sometimes.
It's okay, super-long mdescs+eq lists make my eyes bleed, too.
Bartender, another round of OCD meds for the bar!
I'd like to discourage getting discouraged!
Quote from: a strange shadow on September 25, 2009, 02:46:32 PM
You folks really get hung up on some crazy shit, sometimes.
It's okay, super-long mdescs+eq lists make my eyes bleed, too.
For some reason I get a rush of euphoria whenever I see a short but beautiful mdesc list and a similarly short equipment list of all unique-ish items of clothing. Call me crazy. I also like it when people don't wear backpacks. And when they don't wear armor in bars.
The cool man has a concise main description filled with
intelligent sounding words, perfect grammar and a nice,
Zalanthan feel.
He is using:
<worn on head> a purple turban
<worn on torso> a white shirt
<worn as belt> a purple-stained belt
<worn around body> a purple silk tabard
<worn on legs> a white kilt
<worn on feet> a pair of purple boots
Quote from: jcljules on September 25, 2009, 04:31:56 PM
I also like it when people don't wear backpacks. And when they don't wear armor in bars.
I hate wearing backpacks but sometimes it's necessary. I wish I could wear a shoulder bag or something.
Brandon
I've not had a PC wear a backpack in years.
Other then when actually transporting goods from point A to point B.
Quote from: jcljules on September 25, 2009, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: a strange shadow on September 25, 2009, 02:46:32 PM
You folks really get hung up on some crazy shit, sometimes.
It's okay, super-long mdescs+eq lists make my eyes bleed, too.
For some reason I get a rush of euphoria whenever I see a short but beautiful mdesc list and a similarly short equipment list of all unique-ish items of clothing. Call me crazy. I also like it when people don't wear backpacks. And when they don't wear armor in bars.
The cool man has a concise main description filled with
intelligent sounding words, perfect grammar and a nice,
Zalanthan feel.
He is using:
<worn on head> a purple turban
<worn on torso> a white shirt
<worn as belt> a purple-stained belt
<worn around body> a purple silk tabard
<worn on legs> a white kilt
<worn on feet> a pair of purple boots
> think Eh ... too much purple ... if this were the real world I'd think he was gay.
The cool man removes his white kilt, revealing a rainbow-leather thong.
Quote from: jcljules on September 25, 2009, 07:16:12 PM
The cool man removes his white kilt, revealing a rainbow-leather thong.
> feel guilty, but aroused ... is that so wrong?
Quote from: musashi on September 25, 2009, 07:18:39 PM
Quote from: jcljules on September 25, 2009, 07:16:12 PM
The cool man removes his white kilt, revealing a rainbow-leather thong.
> feel guilty, but aroused ... is that so wrong?
Homosexuality all fine in Zalanthas. Minus ten million karma.
But in other news, you people make me so damn self-conscious sometimes. :(
Quote from: MarshallDFX on September 25, 2009, 07:44:43 PM
Quote from: musashi on September 25, 2009, 07:18:39 PM
Quote from: jcljules on September 25, 2009, 07:16:12 PM
The cool man removes his white kilt, revealing a rainbow-leather thong.
> feel guilty, but aroused ... is that so wrong?
Homosexuality all fine in Zalanthas. Minus ten million karma.
But in other news, you people make me so damn self-conscious sometimes. :(
He's just jealous that HE couldn't have the rainbow thong, the tailors refused to size it, on the grounds it looks gay
Nah, as was said ... homosexuality is fine in Zalanthas ... they refused to size it because they were closed ... come back at dawn.
> think (disappointed) But I need it for TONIIIGHT!!!!!
Maybe it was mentioned previously in this thread, but... I'd like to discourage people, and Tuluki citizens especially, from going on killing sprees in UnderTuluk. It is just as bad form as going into the Labyrinth as a southsider, if it's for the purpose to practice backstab and other combat skills.
There is social stigma attached to UnderTuluk and most people really would not want to be associated with the place at all.
Yes, there are ways to deal with this IC, and yes it will get back to the person responsible (like in the 'rinth), but I still wish people would give it a second thought before attacking people in this particular location.
100% agreed with Palomar. If you're from Tuluk, please at least TRY to pretend that you're subtle about your activities. Which brings me to my "I'd like to discourage:"
I'd like to discourage northerners from tossing subtlety out the window and thinking that being subtle means smiling when you mean to frown. Telling bold-faced lies isn't subtle. It's telling bold-faced lies.
I'd like to discourage southerners from behaving like they're subtle northern nobles. Especially the commoners.
Quote from: Lizzie on October 06, 2009, 08:57:08 AM
I'd like to discourage southerners from behaving like they're subtle northern nobles. Especially the commoners.
Shrug. that's one of the reasons I dont like Tuluki culture. If you're subtle, then you're subtle. It isnt because you're tuluki, it's because your character is ... subtle. He can be from Luirs, Storm, or whatever. Sure if he's a grebber or a rinthi mugger and chooses to play thug-like, then he wont be subtle. But if he's some fancy assassin, an aide, or just anyone who really deals with above average commoner ... then subtlety is ... natural. Whatever city state or creed.
Quote from: Dar on October 06, 2009, 09:31:28 AM
Quote from: Lizzie on October 06, 2009, 08:57:08 AM
I'd like to discourage southerners from behaving like they're subtle northern nobles. Especially the commoners.
Shrug. that's one of the reasons I dont like Tuluki culture. If you're subtle, then you're subtle. It isnt because you're tuluki, it's because your character is ... subtle. He can be from Luirs, Storm, or whatever. Sure if he's a grebber or a rinthi mugger and chooses to play thug-like, then he wont be subtle. But if he's some fancy assassin, an aide, or just anyone who really deals with above average commoner ... then subtlety is ... natural. Whatever city state or creed.
To me this "subtlety" always just seemed like a way of saying that Tuluk was in general, a collectivist culture, where the apperance of harmony within the group was more important than the desires of the individual, and everyone knew it and acted accordingly.
So if someone is pissing you off, you don't punch them in the face out right because that would mess up the appearance of things. You work your aggression out in less obvious ways that an outsider coming into the city wouldn't pick up on, but most of your friends would.
This could also just be because I've spent too much time in Japan, and Japanese people are very very good at being all smiles on the outside while thinking on the inside: I fucking hate that guy! And somehow ... all of their friends seem to know and pick up on it.
Or maybe like during the Communist regime in USSR. Where everyone snitched on everybody else for antigovernment content in their conversations. It is pretty difficult for a Westerner to understand russian humor, mainly because to ... be able to tell good jokes without getting a friendly visit from your neighborhood University KGB, you had to ... disguise it somewhat. Which made russian humor extremely subtle.
As an example. In 60s, 70s, pretty much 'anything' western was branded to be corrupted, antisocial, capitalistic, and so on. So people who would listen to Pink Floyd or Deep Purple, might've very easily landed themselves in trouble. Getting kicked out of a University or losing a job is probably the 'mildest' consequences. But ... someone have managed to actually sneak in a tune from ( I think it was Deep Purple? Smoke over the water, or maybe something else) in the Introduction theme of the main propoganda outlet News TV program. And because nobody 'knew' or 'realized' except the people (in the know ... mostly liberal students who listened to this kind of stuff inspite of the laws), the program didnt get banned or changed untill like ... late 80s ? Now 'that' is subtle.
You can be subtle anywhere.
Tuluki culture bred this subtlety thing out of desperation. They were occupied by a foreign power. Given their more-obvious tribal roots, they took the subtle thing to an art form, and exalted it after they drove out the Allanaki folks. I don't think it's so high and mighty as some make it look, but it is a part of the culture. Tuluk strikes me as both excited and loathe to change things from status quo. That is why most changes in Tuluk are forced, not gradual.
In Allanak and Tuluk, you can state whatever you want.
In Tuluk, if it offends someone, they'll most likely handle you later, and out of sight of the public, because that is the societal norm. Doing otherwise isn't unheard of, but deviating from the societal norm on a habitual basis probably won't be good for your continued health.
In Allanak, if it offends someone, they'll most likely handle you then and there and make sure that everyone knows about it. Doing otherwise isn't unheard of. There is no social structure that prohibits it in Allanak.
I just see it as a trend. Southern commoners behaving as though they were northern nobles..all chin up haughty, silk-wearing, "pretty talking" -
"Oh hello there elf, I -do- love your new wrap, is it a Halston?"
that .. high society thing, which is customarily seen in Tuluk, done by northern nobles..while they're hanging out in the Gaj. It just makes my hairs bristle. If it was just one person with an affectation, or a couple of PCs pretending at pretending - a la, goofing around ICly, that'd be one thing. But it seems to be a trend, and it just bothers me, and I discourage people from taking it on, so as not to make it as much of a trend as I perceive it to be.
Quote from: Lizzie on October 06, 2009, 11:42:16 AM
I just see it as a trend. Southern commoners behaving as though they were northern nobles..all chin up haughty, silk-wearing, "pretty talking" -
PCs behaving that way should certainly, at least, hang out somewhere other than the Gaj.
Quote from: Lizzie on October 06, 2009, 11:42:16 AM
I just see it as a trend. Southern commoners behaving as though they were northern nobles..all chin up haughty, silk-wearing, "pretty talking" -
"Oh hello there elf, I -do- love your new wrap, is it a Halston?"
that .. high society thing, which is customarily seen in Tuluk, done by northern nobles..while they're hanging out in the Gaj. It just makes my hairs bristle. If it was just one person with an affectation, or a couple of PCs pretending at pretending - a la, goofing around ICly, that'd be one thing. But it seems to be a trend, and it just bothers me, and I discourage people from taking it on, so as not to make it as much of a trend as I perceive it to be.
I haven't noticed any of this in Allanak, except possibly by a few PCs who deserve to act "better" because they're in relative positions of power and have probably received formal etiquette training. Noble House guards and employees are working with nobles every day, and every action they take reflects on the entire House...you don't think that might
possibly change the way they comport themselves in public? GMH traders also tend to interact with high-rollers, and try to keep their profile a little cleaner than your average Bynner.
Unless you're just complaining about a relative dearth of grebbers and
really lower-class commoners, it sounds to me like you've got an axe to grind against established PCs with good jobs.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 06, 2009, 12:13:46 PM
PCs behaving that way should certainly, at least, hang out somewhere other than the Gaj.
This Gaj business has been done to death. The consensus is, and always has been: "there are many reasons why people choose to go to the Gaj, and you can't
possibly have enough information about every individual's situation to even begin to pass judgment."
It's what Gimf says. Not that they -go- to the Gaj. Not that they spend some time there. But that they -hang out- there. Wearing silks. Behaving as if their shit doesn't stink, behaving as if they were in Trader's, behaving superior to the people who actually belong there, such as Bynners, and elves, and thieves, and ruffians, and..other low-life commoner scum. They behave as if they're not sitting on a stool that's covered with shit-stains and puke chunks. They behave as if the bar top isn't covered with grease, slime, and filth, and their silky sleeves are just as pristine and perfect as they were before they walked in.
That's the mentality that bothers me. Not that it exists, but that it is a -regular occurrence- in the Gaj, specifically.
Quote from: Synthesis on October 06, 2009, 12:20:18 PM
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 06, 2009, 12:13:46 PM
PCs behaving that way should certainly, at least, hang out somewhere other than the Gaj.
This Gaj business has been done to death. The consensus is, and always has been: "there are many reasons why people choose to go to the Gaj, and you can't possibly have enough information about every individual's situation to even begin to pass judgment."
Chill, dude. I'm not passing judgment. I'm saying that prior to the gith invasion of Allanak, most not-completely-scummy PCs chose to hang out at the other available option (the Bard's Barrel), and then when it got destroyed, PCs had to hang out at the Gaj. But that's not true anymore; there are a couple of other good options for PCs, which only need some PCs hanging out in there in order to get plenty of traffic.
There should be a diversity of PC styles in Allanak and there should also be a certain appropriateness of behavior to the place that the hanging-out is happening. Being subtle and refined in the Gaj is silly; however, there are now a couple other good places for PCs to hang out, so they should feel free to be subtle and refined in the places which are designed for that.
If a PC's job entails meeting lots of people and making scummy contacts, then perhaps that PC could change clothes before going to the Gaj, and could do a get-in-get-out kind of operation, rather than chillin'. Similar to a Bynner who needs to go to the Azure Dragon or Trader's for a few minutes in order to see if they can score a noble or templar contact...the Bynner is not gonna then hang out in those places, even though going there to make a contact does make sense.
It's just one of those aspects of Allanak that is awesome about the place and yet doesn't get played out enough, ever. There are ways to remain separate and yet in connection.
I haven't seen anyone acting "subtle and refined" in the Gaj. I suspect this accusation is hyperbole being used to reinforce the ghost issue, here.
Also, changing clothes is a pain in the ass, as has been discussed elsewhere.
Also, if you want to meet people and learn things, you have to put the time in. Merely popping in and out typically accomplishes nothing.
Again, this sounds like people bemoaning a shortage of gritty PCs, which is sort of a perpetual, facile gripe.
Quote from: Synthesis on October 06, 2009, 12:50:19 PMAlso, changing clothes is a pain in the ass, as has been discussed elsewhere.
Most PCs only need to change a few items of clothing to go from Trader's-worthy to Gaj-worthy and back. And a few-item clothing change can easily be handled with a place to store two bags, and a few macros. It really doesn't need to take more than a couple minutes. It's a pain in the ass for those couple of minutes, perhaps, but when we do it, it adds to the game world.
Quote from: Synthesis on October 06, 2009, 12:50:19 PMAlso, if you want to meet people and learn things, you have to put the time in. Merely popping in and out typically accomplishes nothing.
That, I disagree with. Otherwise nobles in Allanak would never meet anyone. And, they do meet people. Personally, I have always found that my best contacts are made through other contacts. All I need is to meet just that one PC at the Gaj (or the Sanc, or whichever tavern) who knows everyone, then go through them to get my introductions. Very little actual hanging-out is needed.
When I played my first bard in Tuluk--who had never been to Allanak--I still managed to make contacts in Allanak who were able to get me information at the snap of fingers. Going to a place and hanging out in a tavern is not the killer app of contact-making.
apples != oranges
Also, if a few items of clothing bug you so much, I suggest that the problem is yours, not the other player's.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 06, 2009, 12:41:55 PM
Similar to a Bynner who needs to go to the Azure Dragon or Trader's for a few minutes in order to see if they can score a noble or templar contact...the Bynner is not gonna then hang out in those places, even though going there to make a contact does make sense.
No disagreement here, but I want to point out that Trader's isn't, primarily, in VNPC-land, a bar for nobles and templars. It's too expensive and too tame an environment to be very attractive to the average Amos, but there's nothing offensive or especially noteworthy about any clean, neatly-dressed commoner hanging out there as long as he doesn't make a ruckus.
If we had a large population of PC merchants, traders, and caravan operators raking in obscene profits from their hazardous enterprises, Trader's is probably where they would congregate.
Quote from: brytta.leofa on October 06, 2009, 01:07:52 PM
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 06, 2009, 12:41:55 PM
Similar to a Bynner who needs to go to the Azure Dragon or Trader's for a few minutes in order to see if they can score a noble or templar contact...the Bynner is not gonna then hang out in those places, even though going there to make a contact does make sense.
No disagreement here, but I want to point out that Trader's isn't, primarily, in VNPC-land, a bar for nobles and templars. It's too expensive and too tame an environment to be very attractive to the average Amos, but there's nothing offensive or especially noteworthy about any clean, neatly-dressed commoner hanging out there as long as he doesn't make a ruckus.
I encourage use of the Rennik Arboretum: the hangout spot that Muk Utep doesn't use.
Quote from: Synthesis on October 06, 2009, 01:04:06 PM
apples != oranges
Also, if a few items of clothing bug you so much, I suggest that the problem is yours, not the other player's.
It's not about being bugged by it. It's about wishing other players would put thought and effort into their impact on the world that we all share. I think we all know how lovely it is when another player reacts appropriately to the virtual world and seems to really understand their PC's place in it all. Just because a course of action is expedient or easy for the player, that doesn't mean it is the best course of action for the game.
Quote from: brytta.leofa on October 06, 2009, 01:07:52 PM
No disagreement here, but I want to point out that Trader's isn't, primarily, in VNPC-land, a bar for nobles and templars. It's too expensive and too tame an environment to be very attractive to the average Amos, but there's nothing offensive or especially noteworthy about any clean, neatly-dressed commoner hanging out there as long as he doesn't make a ruckus.
If we had a large population of PC merchants, traders, and caravan operators raking in obscene profits from their hazardous enterprises, Trader's is probably where they would congregate.
Yeah, but still, Trader's isn't the place for a rank-and-file Bynner. Socially speaking, there's no reason why the typical Bynner would feel comfortable in there. (Not that I have ever seen one hanging out there. But it's the basic opposite of a suave aide hanging out at the Gaj.)
PCs should simply evidence more and greater
discomfort at being out of the environment which is right for their own PC. Does your mundane PC really want to take a stroll up in the Elementalists' Quarter, or hang out at a temple? Even soldiers of long service who must patrol there should probably feel still weird about doing it.
More hemotes, more emotes even, more thinks, more feels. No, I don't know that people are not doing thinks and feels, but hemotes are so rarely done as to be a breath of fresh air when they are.
It used to be outright illegal for ordinary commoners to go into the Elementalist's Quarter at all...but I digress.
The more you try to justify being bugged by people wearing the odd fancy/silk item or three, the more it sounds like you're just bugged by it. Trying to couch it in terms of the GREATER GOOD OF THE GAME is more hyperbole.
Quote from: Synthesis on October 06, 2009, 01:24:43 PM
It used to be outright illegal for ordinary commoners to go into the Elementalist's Quarter at all...but I digress.
The more you try to justify being bugged by people wearing the odd fancy/silk item or three, the more it sounds like you're just bugged by it. Trying to couch it in terms of the GREATER GOOD OF THE GAME is more hyperbole.
The more you try to frame me as being really upset over this issue, the more it sounds like you feel personally attacked for some particular behavior.
I am saddened by a lot of behaviors which players typically engage in, in Allanak, which all add up to the impoverishment of the actual culture of Allanak. But I'm not interested in getting into specifics, even though I could probably list about 20.
Heh, yeah...because words like "saddened" and "impoverished" are typically used by people who are disinterested observers. If you're only mildly annoyed by something, you should probably just suck it up and deal with it, because posting about it on the GDB usually makes it sound much worse than it really is.
I don't feel like I'm being personally attacked, but I do feel like a lot of other players are being unfairly attacked. Not everyone can be God's Gift to Roleplaying, but everyone is here to have fun. Having Helicopter Moms of the GDB constantly hovering and grousing about minutiae is probably just as annoying to a lot of folks as people wearing silks in the Gaj apparently is to you.
Settle down you boot fuckers.
I'm just trying to get to my 3000th post.
DONE.
Quote from: Synthesis on October 06, 2009, 01:53:31 PM
I don't feel like I'm being personally attacked, but I do feel like a lot of other players are being unfairly attacked. Not everyone can be God's Gift to Roleplaying, but everyone is here to have fun. Having Helicopter Moms of the GDB constantly hovering and grousing about minutiae is probably just as annoying to a lot of folks as people wearing silks in the Gaj apparently is to you.
You don't really need to set to name-calling, dude. I'm not a roleplay cop or a "helicopter mom" and that idea is just pretty laughable to me. I send kudos to those I think do a good job and I simply avoid those I don't think a good job, and we also have the GDB for discussion of things that we like and dislike in the game. For the most part, I haven't even participated on this thread because I'm not into the overall negativity.
And, minutiae are only minutiae when they are the only minutiae around. Lots and lots of different behaviors, like I said, add up to change the culture in a direction which takes it away from being the unique culture of Allanak. Currently, I see lots and lots of those behaviors. Mostly what I feel about it is that I want to check out of attempting to interact with people, because it's just too much of a hassle.
Edit: I'd like to discourage posting things in the wrong thread.
I'd like to discourage grungy bynners not beating up commonors wearing silk and acting better than everyone else in the Gaj.
Yeah, the brawl code is in the Gaj. When it comes to silkie non-nobles in the Gaj - if you can't join them, beat them.
Quote from: Cutthroat on October 06, 2009, 03:10:00 PM
Yeah, the brawl code is in the Gaj. When it comes to silkie non-nobles in the Gaj - if you can't join them, beat them.
Why would grungy character mess with the silks, when you have templars and nobles constantly strafing by the Gaj? I'd love to have my crappy character get gruff with the prissy types, but the reality is that noble/templar wrath is just around the corner. Those templars/nobles, eager to have some sort of interaction and conflict, will eagerly interfere. Instead of, you know, chastising their employee for hanging out in
the fucking Gaj.
My "gritty" characters tend to avoid the Gaj, to be honest.
Quote from: Lizzie on October 06, 2009, 11:42:16 AM
... Southern commoners behaving as though they were northern nobles..all chin up haughty, silk-wearing, "pretty talking" -
"Oh hello there elf, I -do- love your new wrap, is it a Halston?"
that .. high society thing, which is customarily seen in Tuluk, done by northern nobles..
Since when has it been the norm for nothern nobles to act "all chin up haughty" or to do the "high society thing"? There may be some who do but there are just as many who do not. Appreciating and discussing art or fashion is quite different from professing to do so in a snobby, pretentious manner. If anything, one is more likely to see pretentious and haughty behaviour from southern nobles.
I see northern nobles as more like politicians in most of the western world. They're members of the elite, they're better than you in their own opinions and in the opinion of the power structure, but they still try to convey the idea that they understand you, are just like you and want to help you in any way they can. The patronage system is the main reason for this. So in my opinion a haughty, superior attitude would be more prevalent amongst the southern nobility.
Southern nobles are real nobles.
They can also be as subtle as a Tuluki noble, should the situation call for it.
I'd like to discourage all this discouragement. I'd like to see some more encouragement, people. (Yeah right, Rhyden, shut up, we're a bunch of trolls on the GDB and that will never happen)
But still, I'd like to encourage people to quit taking the GDB so seriously. I come to the GDB, and all I see is griping, whining, or just false statements filtering through the channels about IC events.
Let it go. Just go with the flow. Play your character however you want, and don't worry about the criticism you see here. (Yeah, I'm a hypocrite, but aren't we all?)
I'm going to attempt to stop reading the main part of the GDB for a little while, and see if it increases my enjoyment of the game.
:-*
Tinychat webcamming has taught me that despite how we may or may not read into the posts people make ... when you can actually see their face or just talk to them in real-time it becomes readily apparent that no one is actually getting their feathers ruffled about ... well ... anything that happens on the GDB.
I'm a professional agitator, really. I have opinions about everything and feel quite happy expressing them, especially when there is <thing I love> but I believe it suffers from <problem>. Hell, I get paid to analyze issues and tell people I work with exactly where they are screwing up. (It's a good thing I don't get paid based on them actually listening.) I keep showing up and keep pointing out flaws because I am committed.
I'd like to discourage.. not so much people not taking the vNPC world into account, but ONLY taking the PC world and their actions into consideration.
Two people are at a shop. Person A wants expensive sword +5, and tells B not to buy it. Minutes later, A arrives from the store to find the item out of the shop. B insists they didn't buy it, and that someone else did.
It's not impossible. It's actually quite likely.
No IG events were referenced in this post.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 06, 2009, 07:43:22 PM
I'm a professional agitator, really. I have opinions about everything and feel quite happy expressing them, especially when there is <thing I love> but I believe it suffers from <problem>. Hell, I get paid to analyze issues and tell people I work with exactly where they are screwing up. (It's a good thing I don't get paid based on them actually listening.) I keep showing up and keep pointing out flaws because I am committed.
Kind of the way I feel. Except that Momma Gimf is better at it.
Helicopter ... Momma Gimf.
I'd like to discourage people from labeling things wrong or broken simply because it isn't the exact way that particular person feels it should be.
I'd also like to discourage people from believing the misconception on the GBD that the more you type, the more accurate you are, or the better your argument is. It's always baffled me.
I don't have anything discouraging to say.
Though I would like to be a helicopter mom!
;D
Quote from: Decameron on October 06, 2009, 10:26:29 PM
I'd also like to discourage people from believing the misconception on the GBD that the more you type, the more accurate you are, or the better your argument is. It's always baffled me.
I think that's more a matter of people just wanting the last word rather than thinking writing the same thing makes it more accurate.
Whoever gets the last post won the thread, obviously.
That's why staff always wins.
Quote from: Rhyden on October 06, 2009, 07:08:31 PM
I'd like to discourage all this discouragement. I'd like to see some more encouragement, people. (Yeah right, Rhyden, shut up, we're a bunch of trolls on the GDB and that will never happen)
But still, I'd like to encourage people to quit taking the GDB so seriously. I come to the GDB, and all I see is griping, whining, or just false statements filtering through the channels about IC events.
Let it go. Just go with the flow. Play your character however you want, and don't worry about the criticism you see here. (Yeah, I'm a hypocrite, but aren't we all?)
I'm going to attempt to stop reading the main part of the GDB for a little while, and see if it increases my enjoyment of the game.
This is the post I've been thinking of making. You put it well Rhyden.
Brandon
Quote from: FuSoYa on October 07, 2009, 08:26:42 AM
Quote from: Rhyden on October 06, 2009, 07:08:31 PM
I'd like to discourage all this discouragement. I'd like to see some more encouragement, people. (Yeah right, Rhyden, shut up, we're a bunch of trolls on the GDB and that will never happen)
But still, I'd like to encourage people to quit taking the GDB so seriously. I come to the GDB, and all I see is griping, whining, or just false statements filtering through the channels about IC events.
Let it go. Just go with the flow. Play your character however you want, and don't worry about the criticism you see here. (Yeah, I'm a hypocrite, but aren't we all?)
I'm going to attempt to stop reading the main part of the GDB for a little while, and see if it increases my enjoyment of the game.
This is the post I've been thinking of making. You put it well Rhyden.
Brandon
I would like to discourage the use of non constructive criticism. Using words such as newbles, nooplars, and any of those other child-ish names. I don't play this game to be ridiculed by people. I would hope that each of us would be newbies to the role we are playing. If we play the same roles over and over, then this isn't a game, it is a job. Pigeon-holing me as a nooble or a nooplar just makes me not want to play this game. I have played countless leadership roles in everything from the Bynn to Kadius, to Kurac, to the SLK, to random gang in Undertuluk, random gang in the 'Rinth, The Militias, and noble houses. Now you are coming along and telling me I am some simpleton that doesn't know how to RP a templar/noble/merchant?
Disrespecting a player just because you think they are new to their role does nothing but to agitate people and make them enjoy the game less.
Criticism in the game is nothing unless it is constructive. If it isn't constructive. Keep that shit to yourself. I don't want to hear it. Don't make cute sayings, and don't throw up straw men to cover your ass after the fact.
Bottom Line
If you want to criticize, make it constructive, or shut the fuck up.
Thank you.
Quote from: Delstro on October 07, 2009, 01:37:42 PM
I have played countless leadership roles in everything from the Bynn to Kadius, to Kurac, to the SLK, to random gang in Undertuluk, random gang in the 'Rinth, The Militias, and noble houses. Now you are coming along and telling me I am some simpleton that doesn't know how to RP a templar/noble/merchant?
Not a simpleton; just not fully settled into the role. Most uses of those "cute" terms that I've heard recently have been intended to describe, not ridicule. I would warrant that
most players do things in the first week or two of playing a character that they might do differently later on.
Yeah, sometimes the rancor factor gets a little out of control on the GDB. But you're not a noob to that, either. ;)
And its "Newplar". I got tired of typing new templar. And its cute, deal with it.
I'd like to discourage this thread and move over to the encourage thread.
Quote from: X-D on October 07, 2009, 02:09:57 PM
And its "Newplar". I got tired of typing new templar. And its cute, deal with it.
I'd like to discourage this thread and move over to the encourage thread.
I liked n00blar better.
Newplar makes them sound like a Kewpie doll.
Maybe we can compromise at Newblar?
I've never run into enough characters that I would classify as "newplars" to believe there is a problem or change my own rp because of it. In fact, I've never had a pc killed or tortured by any templar in my entire time playing the game. Been questioned a few times, but have never experienced anything with them that I would say is newbishly overstepping their role. In fact, I think most templars could've been far more aggressive and cruel than any of them have actually been.
Personally, I think some people resent the power that a templar has over their character, they put themselves into shitty situations with them and then blame the player of the templar when shit happens to their character. I'm not saying everyone, but at least some of the people who insist that there is some sort of a problem there. Then again, it may just be another case where my experiences with this game have differed from most. *shrugs*
Quote from: Delstro on October 07, 2009, 01:37:42 PM
Bottom Line
If you want to criticize, make it constructive, or shut the fuck up.
Thank you.
Sadly, this is the internet.
bewblar when it involves boobs
Quote from: Ghost on October 08, 2009, 10:41:19 AM
bewblar when it involves boobs
You owe me boobs. We have a deal.
YARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAK!
Brandon
Quote from: jhunter on October 07, 2009, 08:49:51 PM
I've never run into enough characters that I would classify as "newplars" to believe there is a problem or change my own rp because of it. In fact, I've never had a pc killed or tortured by any templar in my entire time playing the game. Been questioned a few times, but have never experienced anything with them that I would say is newbishly overstepping their role. In fact, I think most templars could've been far more aggressive and cruel than any of them have actually been.
Personally, I think some people resent the power that a templar has over their character, they put themselves into shitty situations with them and then blame the player of the templar when shit happens to their character. I'm not saying everyone, but at least some of the people who insist that there is some sort of a problem there. Then again, it may just be another case where my experiences with this game have differed from most. *shrugs*
I only actively avoid templars (and nobles) who have pulled the "Aha, random commoner in a crowd of hundreds who did not bow to me! How dare you!" Which may or may not be related to them being new, but certainly gives me IC justification for avoiding them. Then again, my experience in doing plots with templars is limited.
Yeah, I usually only bow/nod to templars when in a small "room" or if I know them ICly or if I -want- their attention.
OOCLY, I always want their attention. ICLY, I often avoid it.
Never been killed by a templar. Never had a bad experience interacting with a templar. In fact, every interaction I've ever had has been at least mildly interesting.
I'm sure one will zap me immediately on my next log in ...
I was killed by one, but I more than asked for it.
I was a Red Stormer, ranger probably, being tortured by one on the Rack in Meleth's Circle (I was spiced up and equating the high to LSD).
I said something to the effect of telling the Templar the next time he was blowing Tek to shove a jagged piece of scrab shell up his rear.
Mantis head.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on October 08, 2009, 04:07:30 PM
I said something to the effect of telling the Templar the next time he was blowing Tek to shove a jagged piece of scrab shell up his rear.
Mantis head.
...I think I was there for that. <3
Quote from: musashi on October 08, 2009, 01:35:47 AM
Quote from: Delstro on October 07, 2009, 01:37:42 PM
Bottom Line
If you want to criticize, make it constructive, or shut the fuck up.
Thank you.
Sadly, this is the internet.
This is true. It's also the GDB, which sadly is becoming
the source for information about the game.
It makes me cringe a little whenever I see veteran, experienced, and capable players using their GDB-authority to espouse harmful ideas because I worry that the next generation of players will think those ideas are okay. The GDB can be a useful tool for learning how to be a better player, but only if you know enough to filter out all the noise.
Help new players out. Troll responsibly.
If you are going to make lying rumors on the in-game board, can you at least refrain from making presumptuous remarks on how people react to it? It becomes less a rumor and more a poorly-veiled attack on the person that is more petty than anything else. I'd like to discourage that.
Quote from: Jdr on October 09, 2009, 06:12:30 PM
If you are going to make lying rumors on the in-game board, can you at least refrain from making presumptuous remarks on how people react to it? It becomes less a rumor and more a poorly-veiled attack on the person that is more petty than anything else. I'd like to discourage that.
I've actually been told by staff that its alright to put falsehoods in rumor posts. Its in fact encouraged, since its the nature of gossip. Of course, implying that the entire vNPC population feels a certain way is going too far.
Quote from: jcljules on October 09, 2009, 06:25:20 PM
Quote from: Jdr on October 09, 2009, 06:12:30 PM
If you are going to make lying rumors on the in-game board, can you at least refrain from making presumptuous remarks on how people react to it? It becomes less a rumor and more a poorly-veiled attack on the person that is more petty than anything else. I'd like to discourage that.
I've actually been told by staff that its alright to put falsehoods in rumor posts. Its in fact encouraged, since its the nature of gossip. Of course, implying that the entire vNPC population feels a certain way is going too far.
IMO, based on conversations with staff in the past, rumors should only be posted after there has been substantial work done ICly to spread the rumor, such as hiring people to spread it, spreading it yourself, paying off bartenders, etc.
Again IMO, if that's all done and the bases are covered, then any rumor is fair game--whether it's a lie or not. Though stating what the VNPCs think about the rumor, unequivocally, is still not OK. If anything, a rumor should say "some may think X, while others think Y, and yet others think WTF."
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 09, 2009, 06:33:23 PM
IMO, based on conversations with staff in the past, rumors should only be posted after there has been substantial work done ICly to spread the rumor, such as hiring people to spread it, spreading it yourself, paying off bartenders, etc.
Yup. Forgot to add that.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 09, 2009, 06:33:23 PM
Quote from: jcljules on October 09, 2009, 06:25:20 PM
Quote from: Jdr on October 09, 2009, 06:12:30 PM
If you are going to make lying rumors on the in-game board, can you at least refrain from making presumptuous remarks on how people react to it? It becomes less a rumor and more a poorly-veiled attack on the person that is more petty than anything else. I'd like to discourage that.
I've actually been told by staff that its alright to put falsehoods in rumor posts. Its in fact encouraged, since its the nature of gossip. Of course, implying that the entire vNPC population feels a certain way is going too far.
IMO, based on conversations with staff in the past, rumors should only be posted after there has been substantial work done ICly to spread the rumor, such as hiring people to spread it, spreading it yourself, paying off bartenders, etc.
Again IMO, if that's all done and the bases are covered, then any rumor is fair game--whether it's a lie or not. Though stating what the VNPCs think about the rumor, unequivocally, is still not OK. If anything, a rumor should say "some may think X, while others think Y, and yet others think WTF."
It depends. If there was a huge battle outside the Gaj and seven templars died, you don't need to work at spreading the rumor. The event will be known in my opinion without any extra work by you. But you can fuck up the details and blame it on poor sap A starting it or what not.
We're not talking about that kind of rumor, we're talking about political manipulation rumors.
Where does it say that. it said lying rumors. You can lie about a big event.
I'd avoid lying about a huge event like that. The fact is that there would be so many vNPC witnesses that a true version of the story would likely be available.
Quote from: jcljules on October 09, 2009, 06:49:42 PM
I'd avoid lying about a huge event like that. The fact is that there would be so many vNPC witnesses that a true version of the story would likely be available.
Truth is in the eye of the gossiper.
If you're going to lie about anything, by way of board rumor, then the prep work for that must be done beforehand. Can't just slap a lie up like "a bunch of templars died at the Gaj when the dragon statue came alive and ATE THEM" (when it really appeared to be a sorceror attack) without doing the footwork. Expect to be smacked by the imms if you attempt to use the rumor board as a sole means of creating a new rumor--it should only be used to report a rumor that is truly in circulation.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 09, 2009, 06:53:30 PM
If you're going to lie about anything, by way of board rumor, then the prep work for that must be done beforehand. Can't just slap a lie up like "a bunch of templars died at the Gaj when the dragon statue came alive and ATE THEM" (when it really appeared to be a sorceror attack) without doing the footwork. Expect to be smacked by the imms if you attempt to use the rumor board as a sole means of creating a new rumor--it should only be used to report a rumor that is truly in circulation.
So you seem to think that rumors are going to be 100% accurate. Bob sees a battle and then tells Bill, mentioning some magick was involved, Bill tells Jim who blows it way out of proportion and then sure one of the rumors may involve the dragon statue. These people are common and superstitious. Even today with all of our more "advanced" resources and proof, people believe Obama was born in Kenya and that the government bombed the towers.. As long as the rumor involved dead templars, how they got dead is up in the air.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 09, 2009, 06:33:23 PM
Again IMO, if that's all done and the bases are covered, then any rumor is fair game--whether it's a lie or not. Though stating what the VNPCs think about the rumor, unequivocally, is still not OK. If anything, a rumor should say "some may think X, while others think Y, and yet others think WTF."
Quote from: KankWhisperer on October 09, 2009, 07:00:29 PM
So you seem to think that rumors are going to be 100% accurate. Bob sees a battle and then tells Bill, mentioning some magick was involved, Bill tells Jim who blows it way out of proportion and then sure one of the rumors may involve the dragon statue. These people are common and superstitious. Even today with all of our more "advanced" resources and proof, people believe Obama was born in Kenya and that the government bombed the towers.. As long as the rumor involved dead templars, how they got dead is up in the air.
No.
No what?
Think the point here is whom is doing what. The original starter of the rumor can essentially do whatever he wants with the details. I believe he absolutely can fuck up the details concerning the dragon statue eating the Templars. The tricky part being if the rumor would even catch or not, and I definitely agree that no pc should be saying how NPCs react to the rumor, other than the typical "Some feel X, some feel Y." Although, I have to say that for the most part it does seem that to be the case at times that the author uses this to their advantage a bit to an extreme.
Noble X Had the Templar punish Commoner Y for stealing Z.
Some feel Noble X has gone too far.
Others Feel that Noble X should go fucking himself.
Some would say that Noble X should retire from public affairs.
Commoner Y says, "I didn't start the rumor - plenty of people could've done that, so it isn't my responsibility." After being <CREATING> for ten minutes.
To be honest, it's way more rewarding to get the entire city talking about something and then see the rumor pop up on the board without one's own need to write it. If you do the footwork well, the rest of it just takes care of itself.
If you are doing some petty crap, sure you may want to do some footwork before posting a rumor.
I think if you witnessed something that was hugely obvious, like an army marching down the road. Go ahead and post with a wild rumor speculating what they were doing. I don't think its needed or appropriate for the player to have to go around spreading rumors and paying people off for something half the city saw. In fact, I think it'd be a bit jarring and odd if no-one posted about such events.
With how restrictive and boring some seem to want the boards to be, might as well just get rid of player access. Make players have to submit the rumor via the request tool and have some poor bastard staff approve/disapprove.
You're looking at the board from your characters perspective, instead of the whole cities, which it's being spread through. If you want to add in speculation you should at least balance with some facts and other accounts, not just your characters own.
The use of Mister/Miss before rank then name, or Sir/Ma'am with rank then name. Its jarring. It bothers me.
Quote from: Rhyden on October 20, 2009, 01:54:20 PM
I would like to encourage more bearded women and men wearing dresses to put an end to this gender role situation.
Not sure if people have posted this but..
Using abbreviations such as LT, SGT, even Merc which I see a lot. 99% of the population is illiterate and when I hear these abbreviations I cringe at my keyboard, attempt to question the person IC and act illiterate yet they say ICly it's just an abbreviation. This is a pet-peeve of mine.
Also, you're not immune to pain or injury. As much as we all love to play tough characters. Just because you cans sleep back up to your proper health level to regenerate doesn't mean you're not injured. Many players know better than this and are letting powergaming blind their common judgment. Byn especially are notorious for getting badly injured, sleeping it off at sawbones and coming straight back for sparring. I'd love to see staff giving permanent injuries to people like this who are ignoring injuries.
I like logs and stories as much as the next person, maybe even a little more, but...
I'd like to discourage people from posting logs and detailed IC stories on the GDB. We have a submission section for these things because the staff is supposed to approve them for public viewing. Even if you're a 10-year veteran and are certain nothing contained is current/secret/harmful, it sets a bad precedent for other players who may not have as good judgment about what events and information is OK to spread on the GDB.
Quote from: PurifiedDrinkingWater on October 20, 2009, 05:07:04 PM
Not sure if people have posted this but..
Using abbreviations such as LT, SGT, even Merc which I see a lot. 99% of the population is illiterate and when I hear these abbreviations I cringe at my keyboard, attempt to question the person IC and act illiterate yet they say ICly it's just an abbreviation. This is a pet-peeve of mine.
Also, you're not immune to pain or injury. As much as we all love to play tough characters. Just because you cans sleep back up to your proper health level to regenerate doesn't mean you're not injured. Many players know better than this and are letting powergaming blind their common judgment. Byn especially are notorious for getting badly injured, sleeping it off at sawbones and coming straight back for sparring. I'd love to see staff giving permanent injuries to people like this who are ignoring injuries.
I agree with LT and SGT and try to nip those in the bud whenever I spot them. Merc seems alright, though... isn't it? It's not a spelling thing or abbreviation... ah, wait, I see where the problem is. Mercenary. Merc, pronounced "merck"; no way for the illiterate to know that "c" sound when it's shortened. Eh, I still don't think that's too bad.
"Merc" I don't mind horribly. It doesn't shatter my immersion. "Lt" and "Sgt" are terrible. If you need to abbreviate those (they are honestly a pain in the ass to type out), then use "sarge" and "l'tenant" instead, or something like that.
I hate seeing this:
The tall, muscular man says, in sirihish:
"..."
That breaks my immersion so hard. So hard, people. Please don't.
But it's funny.
Sometimes funny is worth it.
Quote from: a strange shadow on October 20, 2009, 06:30:09 PM
Sometimes funny is worth it.
Truer words were never spoken.
Brandon
I've seen Fathi do it and it's funny. She gets a pass. I also don't mind it over the Way, terribly, because it makes sense when you want to convey blankness but can't emote.
But I've seen it done other times and it was not funny at all.
Stop following people over 10 rooms just to take a look. There are CROWDS in the street. Virtual ones, but still people.
The only abbreviation I ever use is Sanc. Sanctuary is a word with a very clear syllable divider (okay, sorry, not a linguistics major) right in the middle - Sanc/tuary. When you pronounce it, at least in my experience, the t blends and it becomes sanc(t)uary anyways. And, people have a natural tendency to shorten place names. This is because those words are no longer common nouns, but instead words that have their own shades of meaning. I have found remarkably few words with such qualities, though.
Quote from: PurifiedDrinkingWater on October 20, 2009, 05:07:04 PM
Not sure if people have posted this but..
Using abbreviations such as LT, SGT, even Merc which I see a lot. 99% of the population is illiterate and when I hear these abbreviations I cringe at my keyboard, attempt to question the person IC and act illiterate yet they say ICly it's just an abbreviation. This is a pet-peeve of mine.
I can't say I've ever seen anyone use Lt. or Sgt., but I disagree with you on "merc." I think it's a perfectly legitimate shortening of the word, like "sarge."
In sirihish, the word for "mercenary" actually sounds like "harbfenfluggennarfen," and we're just abbreviating it to "harb." That's why I can forgive the difference in actual pronunciation between the soft c in "mercenary" and the hard c in "merc."
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 20, 2009, 07:23:07 PM
In sirihish, the word for "mercenary" actually sounds like "harbfenfluggennarfen," and we're just abbreviating it to "harb." That's why I can forgive the difference in actual pronunciation between the soft c in "mercenary" and the hard c in "merc."
...
Quote from: aruna on October 20, 2009, 07:36:02 PM
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 20, 2009, 07:23:07 PM
In sirihish, the word for "mercenary" actually sounds like "harbfenfluggennarfen," and we're just abbreviating it to "harb." That's why I can forgive the difference in actual pronunciation between the soft c in "mercenary" and the hard c in "merc."
...
Harbfenfluggennarfen.
A blaherfaha fluggarf blarb blarb.
Imagining all game conversations in German is hilarious.
In Allanak they speak German, in Tuluk they speak French. This is probably why I love-hate both cities equally.
I've always imagined Sirihish to be like Arabic. A slightly rough, vowel-heavy language. I'd imagine the North and the South have very strong accents and possibly differing dialects.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 20, 2009, 07:44:30 PM
In Allanak they speak German, in Tuluk they speak French. This is probably why I love-hate both cities equally.
No. In Tuluk, most people speak the overwrought Thoreauian English used by first year philosophy majors.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 20, 2009, 05:54:07 PM
"Merc" I don't mind horribly. It doesn't shatter my immersion. "Lt" and "Sgt" are terrible. If you need to abbreviate those (they are honestly a pain in the ass to type out), then use "sarge" and "l'tenant" instead, or something like that.
I hate seeing this:
The tall, muscular man says, in sirihish:
"..."
That breaks my immersion so hard. So hard, people. Please don't.
+1.
Also, use the word "peer" with extreme caution. I cannot easily count how many times I've seen PCs pee in the damnedest ways because of a slight typo. Fortunately, I am usually laughing as my immersion is shattered into a thousand pieces.
There's also 'rupert' or 'louie' to use for Lieutenant, but you'd never say that to their face.
I have no problem with someone using Lt or Sgt, I will read it as if the character is saying the full word, not the individiual letters like s-g-t. They are both common shorthand for the full rank anyway. Who really would say I saw 'L-t Jones sleeping with the S-g-t Whites wife.'? Not me. If I am feeling lazy or am tired, I'm going to shorthand the shit out of either and both. Lie-u-ten-ant and sarge-ant.
I don't like Merc, because phonetically, it sounds more like shorthand for merchant than it would be for a word like mercenary. Quite frankly however, I don't care if you use merc. I will look at how your context weighs in on the current topic and decide if it makes more sense as a merchant or mercenary. I've always liked sell-sword more than mercenary anyway. Sell sword shows that the person is only capable of selling a sword, while mercenary almost sounds like it has mercy in it. I don't know about you, but I am not going to pay extra for mercy.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 20, 2009, 05:54:07 PM
The tall, muscular man says, in sirihish:
"..."
That breaks my immersion so hard. So hard, people. Please don't.
Ergh. I'm guilty of this. Didn't realize that everybody
else was doing it, too. ;)
Quote from: PurifiedDrinkingWater on October 20, 2009, 05:07:04 PM
Using abbreviations such as LT, SGT, even Merc which I see a lot. 99% of the population is illiterate and when I hear these abbreviations I cringe at my keyboard, attempt to question the person IC and act illiterate yet they say ICly it's just an abbreviation. This is a pet-peeve of mine.
I remember a Bynner who refused to say anything but "the Lt."
I kept asking her what the hell an "eltee" was. 8)
I'd like to discourage wireless internet sucking.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 20, 2009, 05:54:07 PM
The tall, muscular man says, in sirihish:
"..."
To me it just seems like someone opening their mouth and nothing coming out but a squeak. It doesn't bother me - but then, I've always been an underground supporter of unconventional behavior.
Quote from: saquartey on October 20, 2009, 07:46:27 PM
I've always imagined Sirihish to be like Arabic. A slightly rough, vowel-heavy language. I'd imagine the North and the South have very strong accents and possibly differing dialects.
Oddly enough, I've used arabic-based words as bendune. :-D
Quote from: LauraMars on October 21, 2009, 12:17:48 AM
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 20, 2009, 05:54:07 PM
The tall, muscular man says, in sirihish:
"..."
To me it just seems like someone opening their mouth and nothing coming out but a squeak. It doesn't bother me - but then, I've always been an underground supporter of unconventional behavior.
Yeah, sometimes I think that gets the point across better than simply emoting or actually typing out words.
Quote from: jhunter on October 21, 2009, 02:06:39 AM
Quote from: LauraMars on October 21, 2009, 12:17:48 AM
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 20, 2009, 05:54:07 PM
The tall, muscular man says, in sirihish:
"..."
To me it just seems like someone opening their mouth and nothing coming out but a squeak. It doesn't bother me - but then, I've always been an underground supporter of unconventional behavior.
Yeah, sometimes I think that gets the point across better than simply emoting or actually typing out words.
I personally think they should just do EMOTE opens his mouth to say something but just closes it, looking thoughtful.
The ... is really ooc, like typing BRB I gotta go BIO
Quote from: jhunter on October 21, 2009, 02:06:39 AM
Quote from: LauraMars on October 21, 2009, 12:17:48 AM
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 20, 2009, 05:54:07 PM
The tall, muscular man says, in sirihish:
"..."
To me it just seems like someone opening their mouth and nothing coming out but a squeak. It doesn't bother me - but then, I've always been an underground supporter of unconventional behavior.
Yeah, sometimes I think that gets the point across better than simply emoting or actually typing out words.
I agree... I like it.
I'd like to discourage people from feeling that they have to "win" at Armageddon. Not everything is going to go your way, and sometimes that makes for the most fun roleplay.
Quote from: Niamh on October 21, 2009, 03:29:05 AM
I'd like to discourage people from feeling that they have to "win" at Armageddon. Not everything is going to go your way, and sometimes that makes for the most fun roleplay.
This. Losing is Fun.
But sometimes winning would also be nice. :)
Quote from: Jdr on October 21, 2009, 07:00:36 AM
Quote from: Niamh on October 21, 2009, 03:29:05 AM
I'd like to discourage people from feeling that they have to "win" at Armageddon. Not everything is going to go your way, and sometimes that makes for the most fun roleplay.
This. Losing is Fun.
One of the reasons I stored my most long lived character is that he kept winning... at everything. At least in his and my eyes.
Yeah, winning isn't all its cracked up to be. You win and then you realize that you can't win anything else. And then you're bored. The more difficult you make things for yourself, the more fun you'll have, in my opinion.
Quote from: Cerelum on October 21, 2009, 02:07:48 AM
Quote from: jhunter on October 21, 2009, 02:06:39 AM
Quote from: LauraMars on October 21, 2009, 12:17:48 AM
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 20, 2009, 05:54:07 PM
The tall, muscular man says, in sirihish:
"..."
To me it just seems like someone opening their mouth and nothing coming out but a squeak. It doesn't bother me - but then, I've always been an underground supporter of unconventional behavior.
Yeah, sometimes I think that gets the point across better than simply emoting or actually typing out words.
I personally think they should just do EMOTE opens his mouth to say something but just closes it, looking thoughtful.
The ... is really ooc, like typing BRB I gotta go BIO
I guess I don't get it. How exactly is it OOC? To me, it's the same -exact- thing as "emote opens his mouth but nothing comes out" or "emote opens is mouth but only an unintelligable sound comes out."
The emote doesn't break my immersion, but the "..." with nothing else does. If you want to attach an emote TO the "..." then that's probably much better. But by itself with no emote, to me, it breaks immersion. And I would prefer not to get my immersion broken.
That's not my question. My question is: "Is it one really correct/incorrect vs. the other?"
Technically speaking, "..." is not something that can be said. You can't utter that. An ellipsis is to be used to indicate an omission or pause between words, in writing; this is not a pause, it's an absence. So yes, it's OOC in that way.
I've seen it used in books before. I can't think of exactly where at the moment and I would like to think that it isn't as common as it seems to be if it's incorrect usage. Anyone else want to chime in on it who might know better than us?
Quote from: Gimfalisette on October 22, 2009, 02:48:46 PM
Technically speaking, "..." is not something that can be said. You can't utter that. An ellipsis is to be used to indicate an omission or pause between words, in writing; this is not a pause, it's an absence. So yes, it's OOC in that way.
Technically speaking, you'll get over it.
I have to agree with Gimf.
I would prefer
Speechless and slack-jawed, the tall, muscular man says, in sirihish:
"..."
to
The tall, muscular man says, in sirihish:
"..."
The first few times I saw
The tall, muscular man says, in sirihish:
"..."
I stared at the monitor and thought "Huh? Why would someone do that?". In short, it conveyed no meaning whatever to me and, in fact, I wondered if it were a typo. Now I know it is deliberate but it still does not convey anything to me.
IMO it's about the same as
The tall, muscular man says, in sirihish:
"!!!"
or
The tall, muscular man says, in sirihish:
"?"
The medium is text.
I've seen it in many novels...which are also text.
Aside from thinking it is less then creative, I have no problem with the usage.
I'll chime in and add that simply typing in:
say ....
Would be at least a little jarring for me.
On the other hand, I'd still respond to it simply because in a text based medium and based on context in which it's found, it could mean any number of things, such as the "shock" emotion, described in an above post.
Quote from: Pale Horse on October 22, 2009, 05:24:27 PM
I'll chime in and add that simply typing in:
say ....
Would be at least a little jarring for me.
On the other hand, I'd still respond to it simply because in a text based medium and based on context in which it's found, it could mean any number of things, such as the "shock" emotion, described in an above post.
You give the tall, muscular man a stack of obsidian coins.
The tall, muscular man says: "Thanks :D"
I don't know what kind of novels X - D has been reading, but I have never read any novel that included anything remotely resembling this:
Julia's eyes went wide with shock from Chet's accusation. In a hurt tone, she responded, "..."
...
Yeah. As Lizzie's example shows, it's not a novel-writing technique to use an ellipsis by itself, it's a forum-post-writing technique, akin to using emoticons, as staggerlee points out. I don't think any of us wants to see "lol" used on a non-accidental basis in the game, either. For me, it's that same kind of thing: internet-speak. Internet-speak does not belong in IC usage in ARM.
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Ellipsis_-_Typographical_rules/id/602559
QuoteIn Japanese manga, the ellipsis by itself represents speechlessness, usually as an admission of guilt or a response to being dumbfounded as a result of something that another person has just said or done. The dots may be vertical or horizontal in stacking, and there may be more than one row/column. The growing popularity of manga worldwide has extended this convention beyond the borders of Japan.
And interestingly enough, the only place I've seen it has been in Japanese RPG games (people might have remembered "..." appearing in the Final Fantasy games a few times). I guess it's possible people are just carrying it over.
Quote from: Cutthroat on October 22, 2009, 05:41:15 PM
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Ellipsis_-_Typographical_rules/id/602559
QuoteIn Japanese manga, the ellipsis by itself represents speechlessness, usually as an admission of guilt or a response to being dumbfounded as a result of something that another person has just said or done. The dots may be vertical or horizontal in stacking, and there may be more than one row/column. The growing popularity of manga worldwide has extended this convention beyond the borders of Japan.
And interestingly enough, the only place I've seen it has been in Japanese RPG games (people might have remembered "..." appearing in the Final Fantasy games a few times). I guess it's possible people are just carrying it over.
This very well could be my own experience; My inability to find at least a "decent" console-RPG that doesn't have a heavy Japanese influence.
Ellipses as part of a written dialogue have been around for quite some time, but yeah, no one should just be "say ..." instead of emoting a blank stare or confused look or whatever the hell it is they should be doing while speechless. In manga or drawn medium it's acceptable because you have a picture to look at to see why there's a reaction lke that, but staring at a wall of text isn't quite the same thing.
In my experience though, a japanese ellipse and an english ellipse, while approximately equivalent, are not necessarily equal in meaning - and I've studied both languages enough that my basis isn't arbitrary.
I would like to discourage people from forcing their -opinions- on style onto others as hardcore right/wrong.
I would like to discourage people from trying to claim that something is being forced on them, when all that's happened is that players have talked about their likes and dislikes.
"..."
You overhear: a male voice from above says, "..."
Quote from: jcljules on October 22, 2009, 11:22:58 PM
You overhear: a male voice from above says, "..."
Or my favorite.
Someone says in sirihish,
"..."
I'd like to discourage people that try t--
> emote realizes this post has no point whatsoever.
It's time to eat some food.
Some people are easier to read than others. (you all know people who can never play cards because they simply cannot hide expression what-so-ever)
I don't mind folks that >say ... or > emote looks shocked
as long as they understand that I'm going to assume their PC reads like an opened book (not a lot of hemotes going on there)
People who play off peak of killing apartment guards, and dragging guards outta their areas they inhabit.
Quote from: Cerelum on October 24, 2009, 04:11:45 AM
People who play off peak of killing apartment guards, and dragging guards outta their areas they inhabit.
I'd report that shit. Can't think of many ways to do that without ignoring the (V)NPC population. If someone is managing to do this in a realistic, IC manner, then kudos to them, but the odds are against him or her.
I'd like to discourage people from derailing threads, especially when the derailment contains things that are rude as well as unnecessary.
Yes, I deleted Yam's post.
Quote from: Niamh on October 24, 2009, 07:23:37 AM
I'd like to discourage people from derailing threads, especially when the derailment contains things that are rude as well as unnecessary.
Yes, I deleted Yam's post.
'Eat a bag of dicks' is a well established Armageddon meme of Ghost fame. It's about as harmless as threatening someone about their newbie boots.
It is also not on topic.
I'd like to discourage people having their male pcs try and build harems.
WTF?
Monogamy=great
Polyamory(sp?)=great
But what is -with- all these male PCs that want 500 female pc mates... who can all be with 'only' the one pc?
Zalanthas != Utah.
kthnkxbai
Quote from: AmandaGreathouse on October 25, 2009, 06:39:51 PM
I'd like to discourage people having their male pcs try and build harems.
WTF?
Monogamy=great
Polyamory(sp?)=great
But what is -with- all these male PCs that want 500 female pc mates... who can all be with 'only' the one pc?
Zalanthas != Utah.
kthnkxbai
Males can impregnate several females. It is in their best biological interest to do so.
It is in a female's best interest to find the best combination of genes and support to rear her young.
A powerful male might have many baby-making females. A powerful female might have many powerful guards, but one extra special male who has super-duper genes.
Quote from: Adiadochokinesis on October 25, 2009, 06:42:35 PM
A powerful male might have many baby-making females. A powerful female might have many powerful guards, but one extra special male who has super-duper genes.
Yeah, this is how I've always seen it working out in Zalanthas with powerful females with lots of lovers. Sort of like a 'queen bee,' and all the drones, but only one gets to impregnate the queen bee.
I'd like to discourage people from hoarding all their money in Nenyuk and never doing anything with it.
Spending coins is a great way to make interesting things happen.
I'd like to discourage the idea of casual sex type relationships on Arm
Have your whores, have your sexual favors, have your mates who are not necessarily "lifetime" -- but harsh conditions would favor sharing emotions and trust on some pretty deep levels.
Quote from: My 2 sids on October 25, 2009, 09:01:45 PM
I'd like to discourage the idea of casual sex type relationships on Arm
Have your whores, have your sexual favors, have your mates who are not necessarily "lifetime" -- but harsh conditions would favor sharing emotions and trust on some pretty deep levels.
Wouldn't this then
encourage "casual sex type relationships"?
Quote from: My 2 sids on October 25, 2009, 09:01:45 PM
I'd like to discourage the idea of casual sex type relationships on Arm
Have your whores, have your sexual favors, have your mates who are not necessarily "lifetime" -- but harsh conditions would favor sharing emotions and trust on some pretty deep levels.
I agree with this. I think some notion of perpetuation would be a big deal in Zalanthas as well - when your own life is so short, don't you want to have kids so you can 'survive' through them once a scrab has eaten you?
I'd want to have kids so they could be the buffer between me and that scrab.
I'd like to discourage people from preventing their PCs in interacting with other PCs on a sexual level. Even it just fade to black, all PCs want to be loved.
Quote from: Delstro on October 25, 2009, 09:15:18 PM
I'd want to have kids so they could be the buffer between me and that scrab.
I'd like to discourage people from preventing their PCs in interacting with other PCs on a sexual level. Even it just fade to black, all PCs want to be loved kanked like the filthy mongrels they are.
jcljules:
Yes and no. I would think it would also depend largely on things like your income level (is there enough food to go around?), your work situation (who is going to take care of the kid while mummy and daddy go hunt kryl?), whether you intend to keep them around or sell them into slavery (do I hear five small? six?), and a lot of other factors.
Not to mention childhood diseases like maar pox, and junior learning how dangerous shit is, too.
Whether clanned or indie, both sides have a lot of things that need to be taken into account for things when you 'do' have offspring.
Quote from: Delstro on October 25, 2009, 09:15:18 PM
I'd want to have kids so they could be the buffer between me and that scrab.
I'd like to discourage people from preventing their PCs in interacting with other PCs on a sexual level. Even it just fade to black, all PCs want to be loved.
I think that every character is going to have sexual urges, but, just as in the real world, characters are going to react to those urges differently, from sleeping with as many people possible to outright rejection of said urges (sexuality in Zalanthas doesn't have the same social stigmas that it does in the real world, but there are still plenty of reasons to experience sexual shame). If there is an IC reason for someone's character to not "get it on", then passing up a sexual opportunity might be the right choice.
However, if I understand you correctly, the point you are trying to make is that people seem to be avoiding in-character sexual opportunities due to OOC reasons. If that is the case, I agree with your discouragement, but I'd also like to add the caveat that you can never know with 100% certainty whether or not a character's reasons for turning down a sexual advancement are OOCly or ICly motivated.
Also, consider the fact that, while this is a game, some players may have significant others who are sensitive to things of this nature. I know that I, personally, would never intentionally do anything in-game to distress my significant other, because, ultimately, I value her love far more than I value ArmageddonMUD. That being the case though, I tend to plan ahead by strategically placing things my character's background and personality to justify such decisions ICly.
^ What the man said.
I think you should do more roleplay not centered around fucking. Kill someone, betray someone, frame someone, but stop trying to fuck everyone on a text based game or any game for that manner. Go fuck rl people instead.
Quote from: Cerelum on October 25, 2009, 11:57:40 PM
I think you should do more roleplay not centered around fucking. Kill someone, betray someone, frame someone, but stop trying to fuck everyone on a text based game or any game for that manner. Go fuck rl people instead.
Sometimes, sex is a pretty good roleplay tool. You can use it casually as a way to seal a deal or partnership. You can use it as a prestige thing (Oh shit. I just screwed Noble FancyPants. She definately values me! ... umm yeh). You can do it to facilitate the most important thing ... the pillow talk. Or you can enjoy the teasing and flirting, without actually caring about the final result.
So yeah. Sex has it's place in Arm, for sure. Now, when 80% of your gameplay involved mudsexxing .... ooooyyy
I still prefer discouraging judging everyone without knowing why their characters do the things they do.
Now, of course not everyone's thought things out and their characters don't actually have reasons for doing what appears to be strange and/or stupid behavior, but some have very good reasons for doing those things.
Quote from: Cerelum on October 25, 2009, 11:57:40 PM
I think you should do more roleplay not centered around fucking. Kill someone, betray someone, frame someone, but stop trying to fuck everyone on a text based game or any game for that manner. Go fuck rl people instead.
Can someone explain* to me why exactly mudsex should be more discouraged than, say, hunting in some lonely part of the world, or spending a lot of time crafting in your character's apartment/compound? I never hear complaints about such activities, only mudsex, yet all three of those activities often involve isolation from the larger playerbase and all three activities are presumably enjoyed by some players.
* Though admittedly I don't care about mudsexing myself.
Sex can only push so many plots so far, which is why I would discourage people from focusing so much on that, and encourage them to also focus on doing a bigger variety of things that get more plots in motion and keep them going. You've got to ask yourself, if you spend all of your time holed up in some hidey hole screwing people, what are you really accomplishing and contributing to the game world?
Quote from: Niamh on October 26, 2009, 05:35:55 AM
Sex can only push so many plots so far, which is why I would discourage people from focusing so much on that, and encourage them to also focus on doing a bigger variety of things that get more plots in motion and keep them going. You've got to ask yourself, if you spend all of your time holed up in some hidey hole screwing people, what are you really accomplishing and contributing to the game world?
Venereal diseases.
People 'slanting' me a grin.
It's hard to do this without looking like a stroke victim.
I'd like to discourage folks from so readily picking the PC's out of the crowd in rooms that are supposed to be crowded with people.
Quote from: musashi on October 26, 2009, 07:03:32 AM
I'd like to discourage folks from so readily picking the PC's out of the crowd in rooms that are supposed to be crowded with people.
Quote from: tortall on October 26, 2009, 06:17:38 PM
Quote from: musashi on October 26, 2009, 07:03:32 AM
I'd like to discourage folks from so readily picking the PC's out of the crowd in rooms that are supposed to be crowded with people.
So wer're supposed to have a long conversation with npcs/vnpcs?
That seems sort of silly.
Quote from: Jengal on October 26, 2009, 06:29:31 AM
People 'slanting' me a grin.
It's hard to do this without looking like a stroke victim.
Not really. I do a kind of lopsided grin IRL all the time, in which I sort of lift one corner of my mouth to express mild amusement and I don't look like a stroke victim.
I think you've just got an extremely exaggerated mental image of what a "slanted" grin looks like.
Quote from: HTX on October 26, 2009, 07:51:42 PM
Quote from: Jengal on October 26, 2009, 06:29:31 AM
People 'slanting' me a grin.
It's hard to do this without looking like a stroke victim.
Not really. I do a kind of lopsided grin IRL all the time, in which I sort of lift one corner of my mouth to express mild amusement and I don't look like a stroke victim.
I think you've just got an extremely exaggerated mental image of what a "slanted" grin looks like.
Well I can understand a lopsided grin like: :j
But a slanted grin makes me think of: "/
Quote from: Niamh on October 26, 2009, 05:35:55 AM
Sex can only push so many plots so far, which is why I would discourage people from focusing so much on that, and encourage them to also focus on doing a bigger variety of things that get more plots in motion and keep them going. You've got to ask yourself, if you spend all of your time holed up in some hidey hole screwing people, what are you really accomplishing and contributing to the game world?
I'd like to place some emphasis on the "variety of things" portion of what Niamh said here. It's not that sex is necessarily bad, or that crafting in your apartment is bad, or that hunting in some lonely part of the world is bad; in fact, the latter two (and sometimes even the former) may be necessary for your character's livelihood. I think what should be remembered, however, is that these things should typically kept in moderation, and balanced out with other (preferably social) activities.
Edit: For clarification, when I refer to "sex", I am not referring specifically to MUD-sex, but to fade-to-black situations as well. (I tried the MUD-sex thing once or twice, and quite frankly, I feel it takes too long to justify in-game, and tends to accomplish nothing ICly. Pillow talk, on the other hand...)
Quote from: Niamh on October 26, 2009, 05:35:55 AM
Sex can only push so many plots so far, which is why I would discourage people from focusing so much on that, and encourage them to also focus on doing a bigger variety of things that get more plots in motion and keep them going. You've got to ask yourself, if you spend all of your time holed up in some hidey hole screwing people, what are you really accomplishing and contributing to the game world?
Agreed, too much of anything is probably not doing the character or the player or the game good. However for people up to their ears in as much interaction/intrigue as they can handle, a chance to go off and one-on-one with another character in a scene involving emotional and/or physical intimacy is a nice change of pace.
Quote from: Niamh on October 26, 2009, 05:35:55 AM
Sex can only push so many plots so far, which is why I would discourage people from focusing so much on that, and encourage them to also focus on doing a bigger variety of things that get more plots in motion and keep them going. You've got to ask yourself, if you spend all of your time holed up in some hidey hole screwing people, what are you really accomplishing and contributing to the game world?
I would argue that sex is a great trigger for conflict, drama, motivation, neurosis, tragedy, jealousy, and so forth.
Quote from: Jengal on October 26, 2009, 07:48:20 PM
Quote from: tortall on October 26, 2009, 06:17:38 PM
Quote from: musashi on October 26, 2009, 07:03:32 AM
I'd like to discourage folks from so readily picking the PC's out of the crowd in rooms that are supposed to be crowded with people.
So wer're supposed to have a long conversation with npcs/vnpcs?
That seems sort of silly.
I don't know about silly, since when done well bringing a vnpc to life can really help enrich the scene, but it would be silly the way you phrased it. It's not what I was talking about either.
I was referring more to situations where PC A walks into the tavern, or even down the busy street and within a half second of arriving has been "looked" at and "contacted" to get the sdesc since they had a hood or facewrap on.
I'd prefer it if folks waited until the person got an emote out or the like to express what they were doing, and let the interaction develope naturally from that.
Quote from: staggerlee on October 26, 2009, 09:51:33 PM
Quote from: Niamh on October 26, 2009, 05:35:55 AM
Sex can only push so many plots so far, which is why I would discourage people from focusing so much on that, and encourage them to also focus on doing a bigger variety of things that get more plots in motion and keep them going. You've got to ask yourself, if you spend all of your time holed up in some hidey hole screwing people, what are you really accomplishing and contributing to the game world?
I would argue that sex is a great trigger for conflict, drama, motivation, neurosis, tragedy, jealousy, and so forth.
Welcome to Zalanthas High School!
Quote from: Aaron Goulet on October 26, 2009, 11:07:08 PM
Quote from: staggerlee on October 26, 2009, 09:51:33 PM
Quote from: Niamh on October 26, 2009, 05:35:55 AM
Sex can only push so many plots so far, which is why I would discourage people from focusing so much on that, and encourage them to also focus on doing a bigger variety of things that get more plots in motion and keep them going. You've got to ask yourself, if you spend all of your time holed up in some hidey hole screwing people, what are you really accomplishing and contributing to the game world?
I would argue that sex is a great trigger for conflict, drama, motivation, neurosis, tragedy, jealousy, and so forth.
Welcome to Zalanthas High School!
It's funny because it's true.
I agree with Sandstone and Staggerlee. For some characters, sex may be the only viable option for really getting some uninterrupted alone time with another. I've made some extremely sexually active characters in my time, and I don't think anyone could say that they were uninvolved with the world or not "doing anything". Still, I think Niamh has a point about people hiding away and only doing that, being kind of isolated. As others have stated, that can be true with just about any task. I think RP'd sex just has a stigma to it. A fade always accomplishes the broad story-telling goal, but frankly, I enjoy playing it out sometimes because it allows me to do something different with my characters -- to play out a different aspect of them. Sometimes it's more involving that way. I have sex regularly IRL; I don't come to Arm to "get off". It's just fun and interesting to play it out sometimes. I'd never pressure another player into it, and in fact, would file a player complaint right then and there if someone tried pressuring me into RPing it (instead of fading). I don't think people that play it out more often than me are "weird" or playing wrong, either. But then again, this is the GDB: 50% of its function seems to be making people self-conscious about how they play.
Quote from: Zoltan on October 26, 2009, 11:45:42 PM
I agree with Sandstone and Staggerlee. For some characters, sex may be the only viable option for really getting some uninterrupted alone time with another. I've made some extremely sexually active characters in my time, and I don't think anyone could say that they were uninvolved with the world or not "doing anything". Still, I think Niamh has a point about people hiding away and only doing that, being kind of isolated. As others have stated, that can be true with just about any task. I think RP'd sex just has a stigma to it. A fade always accomplishes the broad story-telling goal, but frankly, I enjoy playing it out sometimes because it allows me to do something different with my characters -- to play out a different aspect of them. Sometimes it's more involving that way. I have sex regularly IRL; I don't come to Arm to "get off". It's just fun and interesting to play it out sometimes. I'd never pressure another player into it, and in fact, would file a player complaint right then and there if someone tried pressuring me into RPing it (instead of fading). I don't think people that play it out more often than me are "weird" or playing wrong, either. But then again, this is the GDB: 50% of its function seems to be making people self-conscious about how they play.
Amen.
It becomes 'play like me, or you're not playing right'. That's what I see alot of.
Quote from: musashi on October 26, 2009, 09:52:55 PM
Quote from: Jengal on October 26, 2009, 07:48:20 PM
Quote from: tortall on October 26, 2009, 06:17:38 PM
Quote from: musashi on October 26, 2009, 07:03:32 AM
I'd like to discourage folks from so readily picking the PC's out of the crowd in rooms that are supposed to be crowded with people.
So wer're supposed to have a long conversation with npcs/vnpcs?
That seems sort of silly.
I don't know about silly, since when done well bringing a vnpc to life can really help enrich the scene, but it would be silly the way you phrased it. It's not what I was talking about either.
I was referring more to situations where PC A walks into the tavern, or even down the busy street and within a half second of arriving has been "looked" at and "contacted" to get the sdesc since they had a hood or facewrap on.
I'd prefer it if folks waited until the person got an emote out or the like to express what they were doing, and let the interaction develope naturally from that.
Ooh now I get you :)
Quote from: Zoltan on October 26, 2009, 11:45:42 PM
But then again, this is the GDB: 50% of its function seems to be making people self-conscious about how they play.
Unfortunately accurate.
Quote from: Bluefae on October 27, 2009, 09:46:43 AM
Quote from: Zoltan on October 26, 2009, 11:45:42 PM
But then again, this is the GDB: 50% of its function seems to be making people self-conscious about how they play.
Unfortunately accurate.
Well the entire idea of an "I'd like to discourage..." thread is something that the staff have condemned in the past, and rightly so.
God knows the GDB needed another platform for players to bitch about each other's rp.
If you have a complaint about someone's RP, please use the player complaint tool rather than the GDB as a way to deal with it.
It is not the place of players to police the roleplay of other players. Lead by example.
Locking this thread, as I don't think it or the other thread accomplish anything at all.