Roleplay Rundown..

[Sir Diealot]

My opinions.. but, they're pretty valid.  One that a lot of people should look at is the first one.  It is important, and seems to be discarded because of the pure POTENTIAL that you might be a twink, or have subtly twinkish thoughts.  I swear, sometimes it's worse than the Catholic Church around here.

The Good RPer will:

1. Consider stats. I like stats. They give me a very concrete idea of what I can and cannot do, and how I would react. Am I clever enough to catch the sublte hints of the other or not, f.inst. A good RP should at all times keep his own stats in mind, and use them to guide his reactions and initiatives.

2. Mantain personality. This in the sense that they will adopt certain behavioral patterns, according to their character, and stick to them in all situations. If you play a gruff, ornery bastard, then be sure to treat everyone that way, and not slip out of character when it suits your purpose. Exception to this should happen only gradually and as a result of normal character development to situations.

3. Inspire others. Both in terms of giving his co-players different avenues of response, but also if possible to provide content to the scene. Rather than another round of fire-side chatting, he will try to give the scene a twist, f.inst. by inviting people to hunt, asking for help on a project (possibly a project made up for the occasion) etc. This requires a healthy dose of creativity, but also consideration, such that he doesn't try to hijack every scene with his greatest new idea. Sometimes, chatting is both good and potentially important.

4. Be considerate. He will write clearly, legibly and uniquely. Unique in the sense that he should portray his char well enough to set him apart from other chars. He will adapt to scenes, and be attentive, such that others are not needlessly troubled by his participation, or lack thereof.

5. Develop his char. Chars should change over time, as new tasks and responsibilities are put on them. Their goals and dreams should adapt as possibilities open. Their oppinions and even personality should reflect the situations they experience.

[Teleri]

2. Mantain personality. This in the sense that they will adopt certain behavioral patterns, according to their character, and stick to them in all situations. If you play a gruff, ornery bastard, then be sure to treat everyone that way, and not slip out of character when it suits your purpose. Exception to this should happen only gradually and as a result of normal character development to situations.

Apparently, you've never played a half-elf before.  As it states in the documentation on the race, half-elves can change in their mood/personality very quickly and often.  Sometimes, they may want to be around certain people, and the next moment they may want to be as far away from them as possible, depending on if they need their acceptance or not.  They may change their personality to fit into a certain society that they feel may give them the acceptance that they crave.  Of course, I agree that this should take some time as well, as old personality will bleed into new personality and there may be some holdovers.

Thus, half-elves are the possible exception to this, as their desires in acceptance vary, sometimes quite often and unexpectedly.  

1. Consider stats. I like stats. They give me a very concrete idea of what I can and cannot do, and how I would react. Am I clever enough to catch the sublte hints of the other or not, f.inst. A good RP should at all times keep his own stats in mind, and use them to guide his reactions and initiatives.

Although in many cases this is true, I believe that the concept should override the hardcoded stat in certain situations.  For instance, if your character is burly, yet has awful strength in the code, the character can still be played as being strong.  Maybe they're just unlucky as their hits aren't as hard, or they have other bad tissues and conditions not allowing them to lift large objects.  Also, if a player wants their character to be smart, yet has awful wisdom, I believe that they can go ahead and play the smart character.  The code should only limit itself.

Although I agree with most of all of the points, some are presented a bit too strongly and without consideration for simply the RP of individual characters.  None of these are laid down by the immortals, and everyone has their own idea of what should be good RP.  It can vary from player to player, and from character to character.  As long as somebody behaves realistically to their character and his or her personality (taking into account their racial RP), I see no flaw in RP.

I swear, sometimes it's worse than the Catholic Church around here.

Also, here's a little tip: don't start your posts with open bigotry like this.  Good job, you've just alienated the Catholics. :roll:

[Sir Diealot]

Keeping race in mind was part of the keeping personality going.. half-elves (and half-giants) can switch rather easily, but even then the switch should keep in mind what it's switching to and why.

The stats.. that argument, in my opinion, is ridiculous.  If you want to simply RP without concern for stats, go download AIM and call your friends.

Also..ad for the 'bigotry'..It's a common perception that thoughts of sin are 'wrong' in Catholic Dogma.. It was not an attack..it was an observation.

[The Lonely Hunter]

I think its a great start, good job tryen to throw something together for people. On a side note, I found this a little funny...

Quote:
I swear, sometimes it's worse than the Catholic Church around here.



Also, here's a little tip: don't start your posts with open bigotry like this. Good job, you've just alienated the Catholics.
_________________
White people like Wayne Brady, because he makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcolm X.
-Paul Mooney

[Gilvar]

The stats.. that argument, in my opinion, is ridiculous. If you want to simply RP without concern for stats, go download AIM and call your friends.

Its not ridiculous and actually quite valid.
You have no say in your stats during creation and may be creating a specific concept. For example the monstrous, burly muscular man with awful strength. It would be illogical to play as a weakling while walking around with muscles the size of tree-trunks, etc.

Im not saying you should totally disregard your stats, but you should not feel confined to them. Just because you have low wisdom does not mean your PC can not learn and BECOME something different, even though the stat doesn't change. Someone who starts out as a frail young man can over time work out his PC and even if his stats do not change would be logically able to PLAY as a bit stronger then his stat allows, etc.

[Kanks, Anonymous]

Anon because it just happened.

Macros and scripts are things people use sometimes to help with mundane things like skinning. I won't gripe about that, other than to say how realistic is it to simutaneously sheath blade rem gloves draw knife skin animal rem knife load knife boots wear gloves draw blade without any pause in the action at all, after you just spent time running around chasing an animal, fighting it, killing it, and are now probably just a little slowed down from the effort?

Other than that which I doubt happens often I don't think macros and scripts are a big deal for mundane tasks. But I do thing their a big deal when other people are there because of the spam. So I respectfully request for people who use them to please don't use them if other people are around.

Thanks.

[crymerci]

To continue on with the original jist of the thread:

The Good RPer will:

1. Create a character so consistent that their reactions to certain events can be, generally, predicted. This provides a good framework for others to work around, so that they know if their boss/lover/coworker will be screaming mad, prosaically shrugging, or drunkenly oblivious to whatever they choose to do.

2. Conversely, create a character who sometimes surprises others with their actions/reactions, but in a way that makes sense.  Perhaps a temperamental person mellows out when they're spiced, or a timid person becomes bolder as they gain more confidence in a particular job, or a rational person might just act like a lunatic in extreme circumstances.

3. Create a character that is less than perfect.  I'm talking about more than creating flaws, like clumsiness, timidity, or a crippling addiction.  I'm talking more about not being the superhero who can do everything.  I'm sure it's possible to be a) an accomplished artisan b) a perfectly politically-astute aide c) a sooper-sekrit assassin d) a gifted bard e) a lover to rival the best-trained pleasure slave and f) everyone's best friend...but seriously, how realistic is that?

4. Be conscious of the world around them.  Think about how crowded, how dark, how noisy, how dirty etc. the place is.  Think about how you would react, how it might change your actions.  Include things in emotes, for the atmospheric enjoyment of others as well as yourself.

5. Emote as much or as little as they want, but be conscious of, and kind to, others in regard to pace.  If you want to write a novel about the way your cloak flutters in the breeze, fine.  But if it's holding up the general pace of the conversation and you have others waiting on you, "pemo cloak flutters in a faint breeze" is quite enough.  On the other hand, just because you type 3,610,482 words per minute does not mean everyone else does.  Take half a valium and wait a little bit longer for a response.

I may think of more, but that'll do off the top of my head.

[Sir Diealot]

Thank you cymerci for paying attention to the spirit of the thread and not needlessly trying to flame.

Also, Gilvar, I have -- for a while -- been an advocate of knowing your stats before you write your desc/bg.. So you don't write up a burly, stupid warrior with abyssmal strength and AI wisdom or vice versa.  It just doesn't make IC sense for the stupid kid to learn languages and all other skills quicker than the scholar..while the scholar hits like a sack of door knobs, but doesn't branch listen for a full RL year.

[Vettrock]

I think its a great start, good job tryen to throw something together for people. On a side note, I found this a little funny...

Quote:
I swear, sometimes it's worse than the Catholic Church around here.



Also, here's a little tip: don't start your posts with open bigotry like this. Good job, you've just alienated the Catholics.
-Paul Mooney

I didn't think it was funny, and would personnally consider this flame-baiting.  While I don't intend to get into a flame war, the Cathloic Church does not believe that just thinking about sinning is a sin in itself.  Everyone has thoughts and temptations.  If I see a pretty woman and think "Wow, I's like a piece of that"  That wouldn't be inherently wrong, but If I sit there and actively fantasize for the next half hour, then I'm probably running into problems.  The key is the active thought and entertaining these fantasies, at least as far as the Catholic Church is concerned.

[Agent_137]

Breakfast tacos are good.

[Quirk]

Thank you cymerci for paying attention to the spirit of the thread and not needlessly trying to flame.

Also, Gilvar, I have -- for a while -- been an advocate of knowing your stats before you write your desc/bg.. So you don't write up a burly, stupid warrior with abyssmal strength and AI wisdom or vice versa.  It just doesn't make IC sense for the stupid kid to learn languages and all other skills quicker than the scholar..while the scholar hits like a sack of door knobs, but doesn't branch listen for a full RL year.

We've had this sort of discussion before. Here's what I said last time:

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=79769#79769

If people knew their stats before they created their character, there'd be no end of people trying to get round a character with weak stats - whether by finding a way to cancel its creation midway through or by expending far less effort on creating the character, with the intention of making the character a throwaway. If they could have their stats changed to match their description, everyone would be making tall muscular men. It's not an approach that would ever work, given human nature.

Quirk

[Ayashah]

5. Emote as much or as little as they want, but be conscious of, and kind to, others in regard to pace.  If you want to write a novel about the way your cloak flutters in the breeze, fine.  But if it's holding up the general pace of the conversation and you have others waiting on you, "pemo cloak flutters in a faint breeze" is quite enough.  On the other hand, just because you type 3,610,482 words per minute does not mean everyone else does.  Take half a valium and wait a little bit longer for a response.

I quite agree there! Very well put. The last time I tried to mention that in a post I dont think I put it together as well as that and had the same old flame patrol go off on saying "go load up AIM and play with your friends on there" for even suggesting someone might take 5mins to type out their response so that the droplet of sweat on their brow sparkles like a diamond gently rolling down the jagged crevice of a scar that bridges the the gap between the corner of his narrow lips and the outer edge of his white, unseeing left eye. Or something or other that was so predictable that they would do it that one could wander away from the computer without fear of inconviencing anyone waiting for a reply.

I love good emotes. I like seeing people involve the enviroment. Its great. I try to also. But not to the point that it takes a whole IC day to have one short conversation that would have taken 5-10mins in RL.

[Anarchy]

For example the monstrous, burly muscular man with awful strength. It would be illogical to play as a weakling while walking around with muscles the size of tree-trunks, etc.

Having muscles does not mean they are strong or fit. Someone can have a really good body, yet still be weak and unfit. This is RL sure. But just like RL, im sure arm has muscle making drugs.

[Sir Diealot]

Ok, let me try to fix this.  I had not meant it to be ANYWHERE NEAR a flame.

It's -worse- than the catholic church around here... it was meant to be a very short, mildly facetious comment to show how caught up everyone seems to be in the anti-stats camp, shooting down any inklings of rational debate on the topic because it is so against what they believe is right.

Also, I don't see the problem with, saying that the Imms noticed a trend in an account that led to them deleting the char. creation mid-way, or having weak characters killed off very quickly, then they could warn, delete, or even remove that account's option of getting anything above 'above average' stats.

[Kalden]

As for the Catholic Church comment, from Matthew 5:28-29:

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

I didn't think it was funny, and would personnally consider this flame-baiting. While I don't intend to get into a flame war, the Cathloic Church does not believe that just thinking about sinning is a sin in itself.

Jesus does. Or did, depending on your perspective.

If they could have their stats changed to match their description, everyone would be making tall muscular men. It's not an approach that would ever work, given human nature.

Never ever, eh, Quirk? You seem to be in the boat that everything should be fair and equal, not realistic. Warriors are stronger than merchants and pickpockets. Doesn't that bother you? A scrawny, manlnutritioned kid can be beat up by a muscled thug in real life - do you deny that?

The random stat generation has been kept mostly because no one wants to code something better, and partly because lots of players hold out the hope that they'll roll uber stats and pwn everyone else. It's not cool, it's not the best, and there are approaches that work. Look at Shadows of Isildur and Harshlands. You haven't done your homework.  :roll:

Part of the problem is also that some stats are perceived(perhaps accurately) as less useful than others. Endurance is the worst, perhaps followed by wisdom. Strength is the best, because low strength comes with a horrible annoyance factor. Strength vrs endurance could be balanced better. A person with high endurance should be able to go longer without water, carry more for long distances, have lower encumbrance, ect.

The ideal system orders your stats for for your character. The average street urchin might have: agility wisdom strength endurance. If the ordering was obvious powergaming, the application could simply be declined.

Edited to add: I got the biblical quote on Masturbation, What does the Bible Say?. An amusing site.

[The Lonely Hunter]

Hate to get off topic and It is very rare for me to do so, please excuse me but I don't want my last comment to be understood wrong. I would hate for people to view me in a way that is, well, wrong.

The religion comment was not what I was refering to as I make it a policy not to discuss things like religion and politics with most people. It was making a comment like that -with- a sig like that. Just seemed a bit...amusing.

[Ammit]

Please stop discussing religion in this thread as it's completely off-topic and is verging on the point of flaming (at which point the thread will definitely be locked). Up to other imms if some of the posts get editted or if the thread is locked now.

[Sir Diealot]

I'm sorry for even bringing it up..

The real meat of the post was below that, though the sentiment still stands, that people are too focused on stats being 'teh pow4rg4m3rz thing!' When, in fact, stats.. in RP games where people are differentiated by them in such things as sparring..hunting..learning.. play a role in your character, and how s/he was brought up.  

I'm sick of hearing about how you -could- describe yourself as having worked in the 'sid mines for 15 years before running away..  end up with abyssmal strength, and have it be 'ok' as long as you rp that even though you hit hard, you hit poorly.... Because when you go to the 'sid mines again, and start chopping the 'sid.. you're gonna get a shitty break, and almost no money..despite having swung at an inanimate object..and despite having the desc. of a body builder.

It makes no logical sense. Stop saying it does.

[Delirium]

It's not hard to make a background that isn't defined by stats.

I suggest giving it a try so that you can roll with whatever stats your character ends up with. Then you can even come up with extra quirks and explanations for why your character is a certain way re: stats.

I've been lucky so far, I guess - my stats have always made sense for my character. But I never made a background that required having a certain stat be a certain way, either.

[Reiloth]

It's not hard to make a background that isn't defined by stats.

I suggest giving it a try so that you can roll with whatever stats your character ends up with. Then you can even come up with extra quirks and explanations for why your character is a certain way re: stats.

I've been lucky so far, I guess - my stats have always made sense for my character. But I never made a background that required having a certain stat be a certain way, either.

Could NOT AGREE MORE!!

Stats are not the make-all, break all of your character. I describe anything related to muscle VERY vaguely, with all my characters...Thin layers of tangled sinew...Stuff that could be interpreted either way.

I had a character with exceptional strength, and he seemed like a pussy cat.

Regardless...Make a description thats preety strict to your facial features and demeanor..Write up another one after you get your stats, to flesh out the body and such.

Don't see any problems here.

[Cuusardo]

You can always email the mud for change if your stats came out really drastically different, and you want your mdesc to reflect them.

[Sir Diealot]

I'm sorry if I don't write vague, undescriptive descriptions.. and backgrounds that leave things completely open, but rather have an idea of what my character is, was, and might become in my mind.. as opposed to just hopping in and making shit up as I go.

[Larrath]

Just remember that eyes don't have to "glimmer with obvious intelligence" and muscles don't have to be gigantic balloons.  It is possible to be pretty strong without having inflated muscles, after all.

Obviously, this does not mean your scrawny-looking man can really pull off having AI strength, but it's also possible to just avoid having these things in the sdesc.


Also, remember, you might be suffering from some sort of a mutation or sickness.  Maybe you've got a disease that makes your muscles bulge all the time, or that you only have a six pack because a wild vestric carved it into your stomach.

[Sir Diealot]

Agreed, Larrath.. although, since I tend to lean on the side of detail..as opposed to ambiguity.. my ex-miner concept .. or my scholar concept.. should not be intermixable because stats are completely random.  

At the -very- least, staff should assign priority when approving, as they see fit.  wis agi end str .. or however.

[Agent_137]

At the -very- least, staff should assign priority when approving, as they see fit.  wis agi end str .. or however.

this has been discussed ad nauseum. use the search command, please.

One of the big problems is the fact that you'll get a bunch of strong warriors, smart magickers, and agile thieves. That's retarded. Just make your sdescs general from now on. Believe me, when I made my first character with burly in the sdesc, i felt your pain.

Now, though, my sdescs can go either way. And if I get a stat that is exceptionally powerful or weak, I apply for an mdesc change to reflect that.