Feedback on points made during the PSTM

[Sanvean]

Game Economy:

It seems to me that before making any sweeping changes, I'd like to see the project that Gilvar has been patiently working on - checking crafted items and adjusting their prices so it's not possible to make a 500 sid purse out of a 5 sid tregil's ear any more.  

Some obsolesence of the type people were discussing is built into the game - clothes, for example, can get torn or bloody. Having tools assist in crafting but have a chance of breaking seems like a good idea to me.

I'd love to see more of the world's events reflected in prices.  Going to think some more about that one. We've tried some of this in the past - having major events affect prices city-wide, but for the most part, it's gone unnoticed, I think.

I don't agree with making a house's income dependent on its PCs.  Merchant houses are -huge- organizations, and we already have a problem with some players thinking they're the only merchant, for example, when in the virtual world they're actually one of dozens.  This seems to me likely to exacerbate that problem.

Wildlife:

I am also firmly in favor of small creatures.  We'll see what we can do. I don't agree that the majority of us, given a weapon, could go out and become successful hunters.  Creatures run away, and the current difficulty reflects that.  Perhaps a better way to do it would be to drop the hit points and raise the defense of things like verrin hawks.

The hunting thing is buggy, I agree. Unfortunately, no coder has really shown much of an interest in working on that area.

A zone around cities where there is less dangerous game is a good idea.  I'm not sure how to implement it but will raise this question on the staff board.

It is very true that this fluctuates, and that it does often seem from the staff side that people complain either way.  We do have a habit of thinking of y'all as one big mass, "the players", and this is probably a good reminder that different people want different things from the game.

Scrabs eat mekillot dung.

I'm hoping that Halaster will convert more zones to the Simdesert style script - it's very cool.  If you have ideas on this, please feel free to deluge him with them, and cc mud.

Player led RP

I'd like to emphasize again that when you psi to an NPC, while staff online sees it, your clan immortal(s) is/are not necessarily online at the time.  Scripting something so people can report is not a bad idea, but I think it's going to be a poor substitute for a well-written report in email.  Is it -that- hard to fire up a web browser?

Magickers:

This is another place where people seem to disgree - I've been told by some that it's too hard to run a magicker, while others are insisting that it's too easy.  I'm going to fall back on a platitude accordingly and say you get out of a role what you put into it.  Be aware that ideas and attitudes about magickers does flutuate over long periods of time - Tuluk would be a good example.

I'll work on a doc about mutants; that's a great suggestion.  One problem we've had in the past when approving apps with mutant descriptions is that sometimes people decide that their mutations should give them special powers, and that because the character is already in the game, we have somehow pre-agreed to give the character laser eyes or whatever.  This usually results in crankiness on both sides.

Some of the open questions:

Regarding posts on the board - I will admit that I usually don't read every forum - I tend to stick to Ask the Staff.  When I do read some of the long threads, a lot of times it seems to me they're discussing points that have been made (sometimes multiple times) in previous threads, so my eyes glaze over and then I find myself in the kitchen getting myself a beer and wondering what the TiVo has in store.  I suspect that when you see long threads like this with little or no staff replies, it is either a case like this or a case where whatever it is won't be changing because the behavior is by design, or the code involves a lot more than suspected, or isn't a priority, or something of that sort.

I will say some of the behavior I've witnessed in terms of player-player personal attacks recently has been truly appalling and I grow increasingly weary of it. There's a lovely quote from Kurt Vonnegut that I suggest people keep in mind a little more often:

"Hello, babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. At the outside, babies, you've got about a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- :
'God damn it, you've got to be kind.'"

That holds true on this board as well.  If you don't like it, too bad.  The world doesn't have enough kindness and tolerance as it is.  This board isn't here to allow people to spread bile.  If that's why someone's logging on to it, then I do feel sorry for them, but not enough to let them keep it up.

Thank you to everyone who made it to the meeting.  I hope you enjoyed it, or that it was, at the least, informative.  Thank you especially to the staff members who helped out with the meeting logistics and discussion.

[sheep]

I'm a big fan of the price fluctuation thing. In order for them to be noticable, maybe something can be posted on the local board and people could talk about it in the taverns. It would also give the bartenders something to gossip about.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I think that just adding in the armor-break code would make things a ton more realistic, thruthfully. Not only in temrs of cost to the owner, for example, but even in combat. Ok, so maybe that H-G didn't break your skull, but he sure as heck shoulda broke your bloody helmet. Weapons already break, and if the code is any thing like the code I have for my mud, they also wear down. Just do the same for the armor, to the point where it breaks. Right now, armr certianly wears down, but it will never be completely destroyed.

In short, speed up the rate that shields and armor wears down, and at that cracked state, roll with each hit for a chance of the armor breaking. Also, if there is anything that is armor that a PC cannot repair, given the right material, fix that so that a PC can repair it. There is some PC-on-PC interaction for ya.

Also, I think clothes exposed to sandstorms should wear to unrepairable rags if neglected, I think that shoes should wear out after a number of rooms or player days or something, I think food should be lowered in price (also, here, it would be cool to maybe see a command where you can eat more with one command, maybe with a command delay, if you like), I love the idea of making HP more realistic (as in the verrin hawk), I think scripts could be written by Zhaira or maybe Gesht to fix hunting, I'd say make more things auto-flee, and make slingable stones easier to find, so that rangers can go hunt in the south too, and actually have to hunt.

I woulds said alla this in the meeting, but I'd not the time nor all the organization of thought I have now.

[jhunter]

I would love to see the Simdesert style scripting everywhere in the wilds, that, in combination with more small critters to flush out the world's ecosystem as a whole and more rooms emotes would really bring things to life more.

I wonder if some sort of similar scripting could be added to some of the humanoid npcs as well, maybe so the ones that are now currently always aggro, might be at some times and maybe just run away at others.

Like maybe halflings will only hunt you down if they are hungry and if not, they will avoid you.

Something like that anyway.

[InsertCleverNameHere]

Un-educated question... What is sim-desert style scripting?

[Adhira]

Simdesert is a nifty wee thing that Halaster discussed at the PSTM.  More info on this can be found in the log of the meeting found here:

http://www.armageddon.org/rp/seminars/seminar8.html

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

What is sim-desert style scripting?

It's some sexy ass stuff that Halaster thought of one day while he was on the throne, and then put in when he got off the seat. Pretty much, the desert acts realistic, or, in other words, there is a type of ecology involved. It's stunning when you can observe the results.

I am so in support of that, Halaster.

[Akaramu]

The roleplay situation around gemmed seems to have improved a lot since the subject was stirred up. Kudos to everyone who plays the average magick-fearing person instead of some odd special case.  :wink:

[Callisto]

I am so in support of that, Halaster.

[Xerokine]

I have been having this thought since I first started seeing the guard code within the city-states. Like how the guards will scream and attack, subdue and drag you away. However, no where does it say they stole the super secret weapon out of your ass or whatever cleaver place no one would look.. I just think it would be pretty interesting if it could be coded to where the guards would hold you down and basically perform a strip search before taking you away..

[mansa]

Player led RP

I'd like to emphasize again that when you psi to an NPC, while staff online sees it, your clan immortal(s) is/are not necessarily online at the time. Scripting something so people can report is not a bad idea, but I think it's going to be a poor substitute for a well-written report in email. Is it -that- hard to fire up a web browser?

It's better than doing -everything- over email and never even meeting your 'boss' for months on end.  It's a MUD game.  I don't really expect to email my clan immortal, while role-playing with a templar and trying to contact the guild in order to assassinate someone else while mudsexing my lovers.  When I shut down my mud client, it's usually way past my 'bedtime' and I am asleep in a matter of minutes.

Yes.  As a matter of fact.  It is -that- hard to fire up a web browser.  

It would be beautiful if I could contact my NPC boss over the way, psi them a message that would then be written on an CLAN Board in Immortal Land, just-in-case, my clan immortal does not have the same playing time as I do.

I think it would help out clan roleplay.

[wizturbo]

There is a SIGNIFICANT reason why e-mailing reports to clan immortals is a bad idea.

First, and foremost, those reports are done IN CHARACTER.  That means, magickers, spies, mindbenders, sorcerors, wicked templars...etc...etc...might have means of overhearing that report in some fashion.  E-mailed reports makes this impossible.

The other significant reason...is more a personal opinion.

It sucks.  Its incredibly boring in comparison to having an interactive report where superiors can ask questions and what not.

[Akaramu]

First, and foremost, those reports are done IN CHARACTER.  That means, magickers, spies, mindbenders, sorcerors, wicked templars...etc...etc...might have means of overhearing that report in some fashion.  E-mailed reports makes this impossible.

The other significant reason...is more a personal opinion.

It sucks.  Its incredibly boring in comparison to having an interactive report where superiors can ask questions and what not.

I'm one of those weirdos who get scolded by clan imms for writing too many emails. I actually love to do those reports. There isnt anything going on IC? I write an email. I cant log into the game? I write an email. I've had another of my 1001 weird ideas that I just have to pester my poor clan imm about? I write an email.

Seriously... being my clan imm is a heavy burden.

I however agree that actual reports should be done IC. This requires that the leaders are available for everyone who needs to report, at least 2-3 times a week. When email is the only way to reach them with something important... not good.

So... my number one point for player led RP... is key PCs being around, or at least logging on in regular intervals that others can adjust to.

[mansa]

I however agree that actual reports should be done IC. This requires that the leaders are available for everyone who needs to report, at least 2-3 times a week. When email is the only way to reach them with something important... not good.

So... my number one point for player led RP... is key PCs being around, or at least logging on in regular intervals that others can adjust to.

What if you -are- the leader?  Do you limit yourself to the empty and faceless email screen, or is there anyway possible where you can enjoy the game and make the 'LEADER' report to your IC leader, which, in almost every case, is an Immortal NPC.  Can you contact your NPC leader, who should always be in game somewhere, and send them your report over the way?  I think you should.

[wizturbo]

What Mansa said.

If your ARE the leader, I think reports should be made IC to your Immortal NPC superiors.  This allows that information to be intercepted by other people which is realistic, and if the NPC actually responds it would give that leader interaction from their clan.  In my opinion, nothing sucks more then being in a virtually huge clan but having no feedback to which actions that clan might want you to take when important discoveries are made.  You cannot form clan policy, so without feedback, you cannot carry out clan policy.

[Bestatte]

I'm lucky to have a clan imm who is available OOCly fairly often to read reports of my character's latest escapades. The IMM isn't often available to do this in the game, the moment I happen to think it's needed, so being OOCly available is a great thing.

However I agree that for people who -are- leaders, or for clans that don't have PC leaders and have ONLY NPCs to report to - that it would be really helpful to be able to psi the NPC, and if that NPC isn't animated at the moment, for the message to be auto-sent to the IMM running that clan.

At least this way - there's a chance that sneaky people can overhear the message, and that an actual log can be made of the exact date, time, and room where the psi is being sent from. This -can- have serious implications under certain circumstances, and some NPCs would have access ICly to that information.

[Delirium]

The only time I was ever in a true leadership position in a clan, my Immortal made a point of setting up occasional meetings ICly where she and her direct superior could talk. That was absolutely wonderful. I still made OOC and occasional IC reports via email because not everything could be covered in a timely manner in the game, but I agree that as much information exchange as possible should be kept IC.

Besides, I'm not too great at remembering to write timely emails and even worse at keeping them brief and informative, and tend to go off on rambly tangents in an attempt to explain everything's whys and hows.

[jstorrie]

Write letters.  Have your aide/captain of the guard/sergeant deliver them to your superior for you.

[wizturbo]

Write letters.  Have your aide/captain of the guard/sergeant deliver them to your superior for you.

If your not able to write or read?

A lot of PC's begin from the bottom and earn their way into powerful leadership spots.  That means no literacy.

[Gilvar]

You are around even when your not online, and likely making reports or doing things you'd be doing if you were actually in the world. I don't find it wrong to make an IC report via email. But it shouldn't be solely done this way and supplemented with occassional IC interaction.

On a similar note though, its great to receive OOC reports, and makes for a perfect time to want to arrange a meeting ICly to give an actual report.

[jhunter]

If your ARE the leader, I think reports should be made IC to your Immortal NPC superiors. This allows that information to be intercepted by other people which is realistic, and if the NPC actually responds it would give that leader interaction from their clan. In my opinion, nothing sucks more then being in a virtually huge clan but having no feedback to which actions that clan might want you to take when important discoveries are made. You cannot form clan policy, so without feedback, you cannot carry out clan policy.

I soooooooooo agree with this.

[Armaddict]

Just wanted to say:

Why put easier animal life closer to cities?  I like fairly spread out.  So new characters go outside the gates and run into gith, or whatever...who cares?  Larger predators will not be afraid to move to the edge of their 'territory' (i.e. where the soldiers are -not- coming in and driving them back) and hunt suitable food for them.  Or protect it's territory.  Or whatever.

I think changing it so that easy creatures are much easier to find is just asking for -more- people to be independent hunters, who go out and hunt and hunt and hunt, and powergame their skills, and never worry about dying as long as they're this close to the city...

Seems like we're -setting up- the wilderness for people to have a learning curve to go along.  While as now, hunting alone is dumb, and only the lucky survive long enough to be the 'kick-ass hunter' everyone tries to be.

[My 2 sids]

Larger predators will not be afraid to move to the edge of their 'territory' (i.e. where the soldiers are -not- coming in and driving them back) and hunt suitable food for them. Or protect it's territory. Or whatever.

Actually, this really doesn't make your point.  See, it's usually the smaller animals who will adapt first to civilization, so they would be the ones to move closer first.  Just like birds, small lizards, squirrels, etc. can all be found around civilization here.  With so many small farms just outside the city walls, there is actually a lot of civilization around Nak.

Seems like we're -setting up- the wilderness for people to have a learning curve to go along. While as now, hunting alone is dumb, and only the lucky survive long enough to be the 'kick-ass hunter' everyone tries to be.

Besides, remember that not everyone going out of the walls will be a hunter.  Some would be crafters looking for rocks, some looking for roots or wood or obsidian, whatever.  Finally, there will be the small hunters.  The NPC/VNPC (and some PCs) who are just going out to hunt with rocks for small pray to feed themselves.

[Armaddict]

Ah, right.  People.  So these huge things just won't come close.

It's not like a mountain lion and a fire.

These are things that kill humans all the time.  Civilization would not be a huge impediment for them, especially after this long of a time.  The only ones out in the actual -wilds-, away from the villages and cities, are the hunters and the ones you said.  In some cases, easy food, in others, not.

Comparing the animal life of zalanthas to birds and such on earth seems kinda...unfitting, to me.

[Gilvar]

The fact is there are many actual and virtual villages around Allanak. Rooms south of Allanak actually have soldiers in their descriptions, described as watching the farmers (lots of vnpcs in these rooms as well) so while not saying its like being in a city, there are things out there, and soldiers are likely ensuring the safety of themselves and their villages through somewhat regular patrols, thus drving back hostile animals. Smaller animals that would either be too elusive or not viewed as a threat would likely remain within the boundary of patrol.