Disarm spam...

[Quirk]

Warriors would not somehow mystically turn into weaklings if disarm was changed to be a skill with some nodding acquaintance with realism. I see more very old warriors than any other class - those strong melee offence and defence skills pay off, because most times you come under attack it's close up and personal.

But as it stands, disarm is highly overpowered. I've played (in twinkier days) the warrior who would sail through a crowd of gith, sending their weapons flying in every direction. It's not even vaguely realistic. Persuading someone skilled to relinquish their grip on a weapon that they are likely to die if they lose ought to be a difficult business. It is not unless they happen to be a warrior.

How are you all imagining this disarming is taking place? Do you see a perfectly collected and dangerous assassin turning into a fumbling display of ineptitude as soon as some clumsy warrior who can't even manage to parry his blows attempts to knock a weapon from his hands?

Quirk

[Armaddict]

That's what I was saying, Quirk.

[spawnloser]

Recently I was disarmed and at one point emoted and went to get the weapon before ditching out...and damn, I don't think the penalty for getting a weapon while in combat as that sucked a whole bunch.

[Maybe42or54]

I play a character with disarm and I think it is plausible if you think about it for just a mere second, that you would be able to pick up your weapons if you planned it carefully.

*editted for tired mistakes*

[Anonymous]

How are you all imagining this disarming is taking place? Do you see a perfectly collected and dangerous assassin turning into a fumbling display of ineptitude as soon as some clumsy warrior who can't even manage to parry his blows attempts to knock a weapon from his hands?

Hello. -Assassin-. An assassin utilizing their strengths shouldn't be going to blows with a warrior, it's not their area of expertise.
The warrior should've had his throat slit when he had his back turned.
An assassin is not an expert in the area of melee combat and can never be.
He doesn't know how to disarm someone, then he wouldn't know how to stop it as well either.

As was stated by someone earlier, all guilds have their own way about killing someone if it's in their character to do so and they are all different.

Again, the best fix would be to just make it harder for anyone to pick up things during combat. It would both work against the warrior (when he/she fumbles on a botched disarm attempt) and against the warrior's opponent (when they are disarmed).

I say leave everything else about it alone, this fix alone would make it more realistic and maintain the balance and the melee combat superiority that a warrior is supposed to have vs. all other guilds.
This one thing would fix alot of the complaints about it.
(At least the reasonable complaints, I don't believe non-warriors having no defense against it is a reasonable complaint, it's akin to any other guild complaining they've no defense against whatever the others can do that they can't.)
Warriors are limited in almost all other areas, let them have the one thing noone else can do or defend against unless they also know how to do it.

Oh yeah, no reason for the anon posting other than I've not posted anon since before the Anonymous Kank replaced Guest...heheh, I'm kinda wierd like that I guess.

[Lazloth]

Warriors would not somehow mystically turn into weaklings if disarm was changed to be a skill with some nodding acquaintance with realism.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I don't see eye-to-eye with the THEY ARE WARRIORS arguement.

Every class in the game has a different level of melee prowess.  If the only purpose of this was to allow warrior's to beat everybody, we could reduce them to where rangers are currently and everybody else to where merchants are currently.  But the purpose of this variety, in my opinion, is to maintain balance and ensure that any warrior character in the game can't beat any other given character in the game.  And besides, nobody should be able to defeat four halflings unless they're a magicker.

[Stroker]

And besides, nobody should be able to defeat four halflings unless they're a magicker.

I think a skilled warrior/fighter can manage a fight against four opponents. Especially, if those opponents are miniature-sized.

[wizturbo]

And besides, nobody should be able to defeat four halflings unless they're a magicker.

I think a skilled warrior/fighter can manage a fight against four opponents. Especially, if those opponents are miniature-sized.

Manage to retreat with his/her life, MAYBE.  Defeat them?  Absolutely not unless those halflings are untrained in combat.  

Who cares how small they are.  They are the most agile race in the known world, and would be enormously difficult to hit, and their accuracy with their attacks would be frightening.

[Stroker]

You're forgetting the fact that I specifically said a -skilled- warrior, not some jackass who cannot hit anything. So a good archer can hit a gimpka rat a distance of one mile or more, but a melee warrior can't hit a halfling?

[Agent_137]

in a fantasy world, they can be defeated.

In real life, if you are facing more than 2 or three opponents, you "win" by getting away in one piece.

I like my fantasy world. Otherwise, i'd be hiring the vertically challenged to fight me.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Arm, AKA D&D (death and damnation), is focused primarily on survival roleplay and gritty realism.  If you want to defeat ten orcs at once and then save the busty elf princess, you're playing the wrong game.

[Carnage]

An assassin is not an expert in the area of melee combat and can never be.
He doesn't know how to disarm someone, then he wouldn't know how to stop it as well either.

o rly?

Highly skilled assassins tend to become more akin to warriors late in their careers.

Arm, AKA D&D (death and damnation), is focused primarily on survival roleplay and gritty realism. If you want to defeat ten orcs at once and then save the busty elf princess, you're playing the wrong game.

Reiterating because people don't seem to understand this.

[Stroker]

Arm, AKA D&D (death and damnation), is focused primarily on survival roleplay and gritty realism. If you want to defeat ten orcs at once and then save the busty elf princess, you're playing the wrong game.

Oh yeah? And is it realistic for one half-giant to annhilate a mek in a few hits or for an archer to bring down a bahamet with one shot by hitting it in the eye from a league away? That's all realistic?

[Carnage]

Arm, AKA D&D (death and damnation), is focused primarily on survival roleplay and gritty realism. If you want to defeat ten orcs at once and then save the busty elf princess, you're playing the wrong game.

Oh yeah? And is it realistic for one half-giant to annhilate a mek in a few hits or for an archer to bring down a bahamet with one shot by hitting it in the eye from a league away? That's all realistic?

No, that's an oversight/bug with the code.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Oh yeah? And is it realistic for one half-giant to annhilate a mek in a few hits

Never seen that happen, and I suspect that if it indeed did it was when the game was younger and mekillots didn't have a reasonable amount of might that their size demands.

Or for an archer to bring down a bahamet with one shot by hitting it in the eye from a league away?

I've never seen that happen either, nor have I heard an account of it, but it is realistic.

[Armaddict]

Mmm...yes.

Half-giants -can- take down meks.  They're that strong.  Once again, someone underestimates the giant.

And yes.  An arrow through the eye kills...just...about anything, doesn't it?

Although, I've never heard of this happening in game.

[Stroker]

My point is... just because -you- cannot contemplate someone beating four opponents in real life combat, doesn't mean it cannot happen realistically and within the game.

[Stroker]

And yes. An arrow through the eye kills...just...about anything, doesn't it?

I'd like to see you shoot a shell-enclosed creature in the eye. Are you people listening to yourselves?

So you're going to sit there and tell me that a skilled archer -can- and -should- be able to shoot a bahamet in the eye from one league away, yet a skilled warrior can't take down four halflings? WOW. I'm done, because I don't know how else to prove my point.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Once again, I'll say that I've never seen it happen or heard about anyone doing it.

But beyond that, I don't see a realism problem with somebody killing a bahamet if they succesfully hit it in the eye.  The only thing the shell would interfere with is your ability to succesfully strike its eye (assuming it can pull into its shell, and I've never seen that happen either).  But once you do, you're home free.  The very least such an attack would do is partially blind the creature, drive it insane with pain, and severely and irrevocably diminish its fearsomeness.  If the bahamet dies, however, you know that your arrow reached its brain.

[Agent_137]

I'm with carnage. I think he's saying that this game isn't perfectly real, and shouldn't be. He's stressing the playability side of the Playability vs realism debate.

But honestly, we  are WAY THE FUCK off track.

Back to disarm spam:

It's bad, mmmkay?

[EvilRoeSlade]

But honestly, we  are WAY THE FUCK off track.

Yep.

Back to disarm spam:

It's bad, mmmkay?

Yep.

[X-D]

Disarm spam bad, but I do have to answer this.

I'd like to see you shoot a shell-enclosed creature in the eye. Are you people listening to yourselves?

So you're going to sit there and tell me that a skilled archer -can- and -should- be able to shoot a bahamet in the eye from one league away, yet a skilled warrior can't take down four halflings? WOW. I'm done, because I don't know how else to prove my point

I personally know a woman who, with a recurve bow can hit a half dollar coin tossed into the air from 50 feet 8 out of 10 times. Gotta figure a bahamet's eye is at least the size of a dinner plate, I can hit a dinner plate with my compound from 80 feet 9 of 10 times.

can a skilled warrior take down 4 halflings, sure, if they are merchants, but here I was talking about 4 halfling warrior npc's, "people" who should represent at least the average that race has to offer IE skilled warriors, and with the highest agility in the game. No single warrior of any race should be able to do that alone, at least not by the method involved, disarm, disarm,disarm,disarm,disarm,disarm,disarm,disarm,disarm, new weapons drawn or picked up, whatever ones did not fly from the room, disarm,disarm,disarm,disarm. Bah.

And all this while being attacked by FOUR things at a time, somehow managed to defend, attack, dodge AND set up to remove weapons from his enemies, with little risk to himself since he used 2 weapons and disarm delay is short and only after. BAH I say.

[Faglore]

Think of it this way. To kill someone, you need not do more then cut them once on certain points upon their body. Therefore, a -master- of combat, can and will kill four people with his masterful strokes. Sure he will take some damage, as it is nearly impossible to evade the attacks of four people. However, it is so feasable that it makes my head hurt for someone to kill four people in a fight. Imagine someone just slicing the throat of one of them, leaping backward and catching one in the eye, getting one on the achilles so one person is immobile, and then the last one on the throat or what not. Sure you will get hit a little doing this, but it is very very feasable. Why are you trying to ruin the game, if you want the game to be even more realistic then it is, why not just stop playing and enjoy your life. It is a game, and sure it is possible in the context of this game for someone to kill four people in a fight. Are you going to leave unscathed? NO! Is it easy? HELL NO! Just like shooting a bahamet in the eye like my man Dirr said. It is tough as balls, but it -might- be done by a master. A MASTER! Just like what a warrior would be who can kill four halflings, beyond master in fact.

And carnage, I suggest you look up the term akin in the dictionary. Akin, in this context, means having similar quality or characteristics. Will they ever be a warrior? NO! Can they get kind of close in some aspects, yes they can. Which is what that helpfile is saying. Not to mention, I'd like to see an assasin who is that old, stand up to a warrior who is that old. Would be kind of funny actually.

Now think about it people, we play a game where men can say crazy words and shoot lightening out of their hands! Is that realistic, I sure hope not. But that is how it is IG, much like a master of a warrior is able to kill four people ig is how it is. If you don't like it? That is a shame that you are dismayed by the accomplishments of your fellow players through a very long-lived and disciplined career with their character. I personally don't bitch about how somethings can kill a warrior before he  knows what happened. Which is why you people should stop complaining about warriors owning in melee. Now back to spam disarm, hell yes it is bad. Do we take it out on everyone? No! I have seen thieves, templars, magickers, blah blah who abuse their skills with no rp so pitifully it makes me sick. Every guild has skills that some idiot will abuse in a negative way. Please people, I seriously am asking this nicely, stop trying to ruin people's fun due to your retentive principles of realism. Zalanthans have a completely different constitution then humans do in our society. Which is why they can do things we can't. I.E.: Kill four halflings. Let it be, let the warriors have their fun in the way they are meant to have fun, and if they are rp'ing it poorly, then send a mail to the mud explaining your logic or something. If someone goes out looking for four halflings, unless they have a damn good ic reason for it, sure it is bad rp. But if four attack you, it is not very feasable to just run as they are fast and know the terrain like the back of their little, filthy, cute hands. I don't like a lot of things that go on ig, but I have learned to deal with it in one way or another. Demanding that the code is adjusted to your needs is not the way to do it imho. Just let it be, please.

[Anonymous]

*Claps his grubby little paws together for Faglore.*