Disarm spam...

[Trenidor]

It's a good idea, but I'm not sure it's for this mud....

I use disarm for other things that just disarming people...Like, I'll emote out swinging really hard at someone, then disarm. If it succeeds, they can emote what they want, but either way my strong arms made them loose control of their weapon.

There's also other instances...like that kungfu ninja dude I had before...disarm was used for when I grabbed someones arm and did a cool flip in the air while holding it. If I succeed, the result is them dropping their weapon cuz I caused them too much pain on their wrist, and if I fail then it means I can't emote out that move, but rather start to flip then slip and emote out like I'm on the ground witha  quick recovery.

and other emotes that can be thought up.....

autodisarm is good, but what would be better is if there were more of a punishment for doing it and failing or doing it period.

[X-D]

autodisarm is good, but what would be better is if there were more of a punishment for doing it and failing or doing it period

I'll go with that.

[Faglore]

I don't see anyone complaining about ultra Ranger and his crazy ass archery? Let's do this then, if disarm is butchered into what you all propose it to become, then archery should be altered as well. Disarm, does not mean you aim your weapon at their weapon. Disarm means, as a professional fighter, a master of your trade, you are able to cleverly, physically, etc. knock a weapon out of someone's hand. You might bite them, kick the weapon, hit them on the shoulder, hit them on a pressure point, feign an attack, who knows the list goes on. The current 'check' for someone spamming disarm is a fumble. Somebody spamming disarm will fumble their weapon. If they are really spamming disarm, copy it, send it to the mud. The last thing we need to do is take away the one advantage a warrior has, and that is his combat. The problem is few people are patient, and lucky enough to stay alive long enough or train long enough to get good at disarm. Or they are not warriors, and choose to engage in Melee combat. If you are not a warrior, guess what, avoid using Melee since that's not your cup of tea. Each skillset has its advantages, and disarm is a warrior's. Making it passive COMPLETELY throws off someone's fighting strategy, and is just pure nonsense I think. Let it go people, just because you can't stand up to solid disarm in melee doesn't mean it needs to go. And if you think it's ooc, I'll tell you what's ooc, wanting to go for someone's weapon and waiting for the code to do it for you. But if you all really want to play hardball, I suggest the following skills are also screwed with hardcore to make them half as useful as before: Backstab, archery, all magics, kick, throw, and steal. Obviously this is nonsense, but so is screwing with the way disarm is right now.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Just to throw a bit more into this, disarm is actually quite ok the way that it is. It's a warrior.

Warriors can get away with knocked the sword from a halfling scout's hand, if they are quick enough to do it. Even all four halflings. You know why?

They are warriors.

Five times in a row? Sorry. Should have run.

They are warriors.

Being a Warrior denotes possessing a particular apptitude for the ways of close-combat that others simply do not possess. Rangers are deadly and perfect at their own style of murder. So are Assassins. Yes, even Magickers, at their own style of killing and warfare. Suprisingly, even Merchants have a talent to kill. In, of course, their own style.

This is not so much an attack on anyone's views, and I really wouldn't care too much if it changed or not, even though I play a warrior. But the reality is this.

They are warriors.

If you want to win, bring a ton of weapons, or fight like your class is required to fight. Or better yet...

...run.

[JollyGreenGiant]

I agree with Venomz.

I think there's a pretty reasonable balance between most of the classes at present.  Many muds... maybe even most muds... rely on a combat system that's purely toe-to-toe skill-vs-skill combat.  Warriors, mages, and thieves sit there and slug it in the same room, and whoever comes up with the right combination of skills wins.  In those cases, all of your balance relies on all the classes being fairly equal in the long run, sitting in the same room and slugging it out.

Armageddon is not most muds.

I disagree with the sentiment that the combat code is "weak," and in my opinion, that idea is brought on by the "stand and slug it out" approach that people take to combat.  Warriors, in Armageddon, are the kings of the slugging it out approach, and should be.  Instead of giving you new ways to sit and go toe-to-toe with someone, Armageddon gives you interesting ways to kill people.  I won't outline anything specific, but the arsenal is quite varied - archery, throw, poison, backstab, sap, offensive magick, defensive magick, and even some skills and spells that you might not consider combat skills that can be used to deadly effect.  When you start throwing all of those into different combinations, even simple ones, well, there are plenty of ways to end a fight without putting yourself at risk of being disarmed.

I don't think Zalanthans are going to have much of a concept of an "honorable" fight.  I mean, the Tuluki consider assassination an art, and an assassin doesn't live to see the day after he takes on a mark by fighting with "honor."  What I'm getting at here is that there's no social stigma against fighting as down and dirty as you can.  Throw the head-to-head mentality out the window if you're not playing a warrior, pick fights on your terms, or run.  The Zalanthan mentality isn't fairness, it's straight up survival.

[Forest Junkie]

JGG has an excellent idea, I think.

[Faglore]

Yes JGG, sweet jesus yes! Thank you for putting my point into what you human's consider, "solid rhetoric". Every skillset has their thangamajang.. a warrior's is disarm... thank you again kind sir. You as well Venomz, fight the power.

[Anarchy]

Amen to the above three posts.
Not counting Forest Junkie.

[Forest Junkie]

Amen to the above three posts.
Not counting Forest Junkie.

I still love you 'narchy. *slap*

[Wyrd]

Well, this thread turned into "Is disarm an overpowered skill?" while in fact it was not my intention to rebalance disarm As I said I play very short, never seen disarm on Arm. I cannot say if it is too good or not enough. I was adressing the spamming issue not balancing issue Disarm as a passive skill might be as powerful as it is, it's all matter of how high chance there will be.
I'm not whinning about warriors, I've never fought with any of them, and it was not my intention to make warriors weaker whether they deserve it or not

[Wyrd]

Another funny thing is to observe lack of communication so typical to us, humans.
Really... Do you think that we have two opposing fronts/opinions here? Well, the truth is everybody is talking about something else. It is not a thread like:
1) disarm bad
vs
2) disarm good

It's more like:

1)
a) disarm not realistic
and/or
b) too good
vs
2) If disarm made weaker -> warriors get weaker, game loses balance

And another funny thing is that these two views are not contradictory.
For example disarm may be more realistic but not less powerful. How? Well , make it harder or longer or whatever but make penalties for picking up objects in combat more severe. After all this sword doesn't have to lie just next to you, it may lie behind your opponent, so you might get hit quite a lot before you retrive it - *if* you retrieve it:
>take sword
you get hit
you get hit
you get hit
You fail to reach your weapon.

I think it would be much more realistic than weapons flying around like UFOs and being picked up as easily (this is what I imagine after reading your posts). But not less poweful.
Another thing is that disarm may be made weaker (note: I don't know if it deserves that, I leave it to you) but warriors could get some other advantages to balance things out. Example? Well, I'm sure that warrior players have better idea what might be improved as far as warriors go

[Armaddict]

I agree warriors are meant to slug it out better than everyone else.

I, however, also agree that something should be done about the -ludicrous- amount of warriors who never use kick, never use bash, just spam disarm.  Over.  And over.  And over.  It's to the point that they really don't even -need- any of the other skills.

And although this goes against the notions of classes, and I'm not complaining or hoping for a change, but merely stating my opinion on this...I think a 40 day ranger, who has maxxed out his weapon skill of choice...is not going to be an easy target for the five day warrior who joined the byn and powergamed his disarm skill through the spamming method mentioned above.  If they've been fighting for a decade, in game, compared to that warrior's two months...-how- superior is that warrior's ability with weapons going to be?  I dunno.  I don't see them falling for it that easy.

[sjanimal]

Wyrd,

Bravo, sir!  Good idea.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Well, this thread turned into "Is disarm an overpowered skill?" while in fact it was not my intention to rebalance disarm As I said I play very short, never seen disarm on Arm. I cannot say if it is too good or not enough. I was adressing the spamming issue not balancing issue Disarm as a passive skill might be as powerful as it is, it's all matter of how high chance there will be.
I'm not whinning about warriors, I've never fought with any of them, and it was not my intention to make warriors weaker whether they deserve it or not

We love debate, Wyrd, and we manage to make everything into it.

[Angela Christine]

There are things you can do to make yourself less vulnerable to disarm, if it is a problem for you.  

The helpfiles say that gloves make you easier to disarm, ok, so if being disarmed is a major problem for you then don't wear gloves.  You'll take a little more dammage, but not as much as you will if you drop all your weapons and have to fight unarmed.  And you won't get bloody gloves every time you skin something, which is a bonus.  

Choose your fighting style carefully.  Using two weapons at a time means it is difficult for someone to completely disarm you.  Durring the disarm skill delay you have more than enough time to change hands and draw another weapon.  Disarm has a skill delay, change hands and draw do not.  

Or you might choose to go with a two-handed fighting style.  The helpfiles don't say if that helps against disarm, but it seems logical that it would.  It should be harder to knock away a weapon that is being held with two hands.  

I'm sure there are other things you can do to improve your situation.  If the warrior keeps disarming you, then run away and think of a new stratagy.  Excessive use of disarm is probably bad, but the other guy is fighting for his life too, so you have to expect him to do what he knows works.

AC

[Ghost]

Disarm seems good the way it is.

Just the delay annoys me.  It is too short.  Too short and abusable.

>disarm;get all

Spam this and you are going to win all the fight.  It is the best code-supported way to win melee.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Make getting a weapon from the ground impossible in combat if you have your hands full. In fact, I'd suggest making it impossible period, but specifically, during combat.

Also, there is drop code that kicks in from time to time, when you try to give something to someone else. Adapt this for combat, making it give the message: You try to get a black iron sword, but fumble.

Regardless, I like disarm the way it is currently. The delay is fine, the ability and unfairness is fine. Disarm is fine.

They are warriors.

[wizturbo]

All I gotta say, is SHIELD skill.

Yes...it sucks that you lose offensive if your weapon is disarmed...but that doesn't mean you gotta turn into a sitting duck.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

All I gotta say, is SHIELD skill.

Yes...it sucks that you lose offensive if your weapon is disarmed...but that doesn't mean you gotta turn into a sitting duck.

Amen.

[Wyrd]

There are things you can do to make yourself less vulnerable to disarm, if it is a problem for you.  

I don't know if it refers to me, but if so, I think I made it more than clear that I have no problem with disarm, at least no problem with disarm being *good* (or too good) skill.
I rather wanted to present some idea that would deal with:
1. spamming disarm
2. unrealistic combats as a result of spamming disarm

And frankly speaking this *really* has nothing to do with disarm being too good or too bad. (Though if some people think disarm is too good I also presented some ideas, but it's really not the main thing)

[Anonymous]

Well, while maybe spamming disarm is a bit weak on their part...consider this....realistically...they wouldn't have to do it more than once.
Most likely a single successful disarm would be the end of the fight as it should be harder than it is for you to retrieve your weapon.

As Venomz said, I think making it harder to pick up things during combat period would solve the problem.

You might not like them spamming disarm, but they might not like you auto picking up your weapon every time either.

Yeah, most definitely it should be made harder to pick things up in combat for -anyone- involved in the fight.

Heh, someone's example of a 40 day ranger being beat by a much lesser lived warrior...still no problem with that...he's still a ranger...melee combat is not his strength and even at his best, should still be taken down by the majority of warriors.
I've seen a seven day warrior beat a nearly 40 day ranger without disarming him.

[Delirium]

You already do get penalized for picking something up in a fight.

At least, that's how I remember it. It's been a long while since I played my last PCvPC combat-heavy character.

[X-D]

Only sorta.

It is VERY easy to get around that penalty, always has been, funny thing is, it is easier for a person who has fumbled a disarm attempt to pick up his weapon without the opponent getting a free swing then it is for a person who has been disarmed...though not much.

And that is my main problem with it (there are others posted before, but none stand so high) Warrior or not, bending over to pick up your weapon should be something you NEVER want to do except as a last resort. As it stands now, a warrior has ZERO to worry about on a fumbled disarm, even if he does not manage to do so without his enemy getting a free attack (rare) Then his other skills still work, somehow, while bending over to pick up a weapon (you have to look at it to grab it you know, not to mention stopping movement and dodging and having to bend over) He can STILL parry and dodge swings, even from multiple opponents. Personaly, I think that if the penalties were increased for doing such (no parry -50% defense and a slight delay), the disarm skill would, in the long run be more powerful, Since a good warrior could run somebody out of weapons to the point they have to flee or risk picking up a weapon from the ground. It would decrease disarm spam too. Add in a delay before and after and I'd be happy. Delay before and after adds a bit more strategy to combat, specialy for the warrior.

[Vettrock]

Yes this is pretty much a derailment here but the skill that bothers me more is the sap skill.  I can understand if you sneak up behind someone and knock them over the head, but If I am fighting you and you can't hit me during the fight, but yet you can type sap, and nearly knock me out?  How is that attempt to hit me any different than the rest?

[Armaddict]

You can't sap if engaged in combat.

If you get sapped during combat, your opponent had a buddy.