Why? Why do you do this?

[Callisto]

Why must you look at every single cloaked person you come across, regardless of the situation?

It never fails that as soon as someone with an hidden short description (ie: wearing mask, veil, hood, etc) enters a room - be it in the street, in the desert, in a tavern - everyone else turns and looks.

Why?

I've noticed there are a small number of people who look at someone with an "activate thief shield!" extension. Some examples:

So-and-so looks at cloaked person suspiciously.
So-and-so looks at cloaked person looking under the hood.
So-and-so looks at cloaked person engraving them in his sights.
So-and-so looks at cloaked person following their movements.

Why?

It doesn't stop there, however. Sometimes people will follow cloaked figures clear across cities just to get a look at them, then turn around and walk back they way they came. Sometimes people will go into a tavern or shop, look at any/all cloaked people and walk out without so much as an emote.

Why?

When someone walks into a tavern with their hood up, it never fails that someone will turn away from a conversation to gawk within seconds of the person entering. A lot of the time the person never even gets an emote off or a chance to lower the hood before a tavern full of people turn to stare, which is compounded by people doing one of the above examples.

... why?!

If you're one of these people, please, explain to me why? I don't care how, do it as a guest if you want to, but tell me why in the holy blue hells you do this?

[Ghost]

Well, personally I dont look -suspicuosly-.  But since my first playing on arm, I feel the urge to look at the PCs.  Be it cloaked or uncloaked or naked..

Well, I have dealt with that looking.  I no longer spam look, but still, if someone is cloaked, I feel the urge to look at them.  Just to check, if he is someone I know.  It is not about checking thieves, it is about checking the people I know.

And some people following the cloaked ones to the other part of city?  Well, they must be really curious fellas.

[Agent_137]

i'll check out a cloaked person if they are chillin' in the tavern cloaked, that's kinda odd. I'm like, "you're inside fella, what's the deal?"

But, that's because it's odd. It's more of a quizzical glance than anything.

I think it comes from people's urge (as stated above) to look at people. Maybe old lingering H&S effects...you know, equip obessions, etc. etc.

I know in my old game I'd spam look...at everyone..multiple times...

But now with the look echo, i'm very self-aware, and I tend to not look at people unless my character would actually want to give them a GOOD look. You know, good enough to tell the color of their codpiece and the quality of their shoes.

[jhunter]

I tend to give everyone a look...just to check for visible insignias and such. Things that I would notice with just a passing glance that I cannot actually see as the player of the pc without directly looking at someone.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I only do it if you're wearing a cloak and a veil or facewrap.  And that's just so I can figure out how easily I can make you dead.

[Angela Christine]

Why look?  Why not?


Didn't we just have this discussion?  Looking is the only way to see if it is someone you know, someone affiliated with clan X, someone wearing your dead mate's necklace, or someone weilding weapons and about to go berzerk.  You're just looking, you're not feeling them up or rumaging through their pockets.  It is just a look.  Get over it.  


AC

[Mr.Camel]

why is it that when one man builds a wall, the next man immediately needs to know what's on the other side?

--Tyrion Lannister.

[mansa]

It's human nature to try and know the unknown.  It's the same URGE that people have when they see a 'someone' emote.  People don't -think- about it, they just -do- it.  There is no reason why.  It's an automated response that is built into everyone.

[Carnage]

So I can find out who you are.

That way, when you try to PK or steal from me, I can post a thread to the GDB about it.

[Bestatte]

Couple of constructive things to help cut down on insta-looks (especially if your character is sitting in a spot of the room where he shouldn't logically be capable of seeing who just walked in):

1) The obvious: Stop wearing your hood inside buildings, and you won't get nearly as many people looking at you. Tug the hood down outside the door.

2) The recognition check: If you are looking for someone particular, and are checking to see if this is the person, use assess -v FIRST. If it isn't who you are looking for, then probably your character has no need to look at them, and you'll have to dig your heels in and refuse to give into temptation.

Adding to the complaint itself though:

I notice people (some new, some not so new) who will look at EVERYONE, and sometimes more than once, and often without any emoting at all. I find this much more jarring than looking at hooded faces.

Wish list:

Some new command that would allow us to look at a person's worn things, without looking at their desc. Just like in real life, if you spot someone from way across the room and he's wearing a really big purple hat, you might not notice or recognize his face from all the way over there, but you will definitely notice the hat. Or the woman who is keeping her head tucked in her hood, but is sporting a 4-carat diamond on her left hand and walks past your table. You're GONNA notice that rock, even if you can't see her face under her hood. Something like: look figure's things

This would not be the same as peek because you won't see what's in their inventory. You'll see -only- those same exact things you'd normally see if you typed "look figure" - without the main desc, and without anyone seeing that you looked at them. It isn't meant to be a sneaky thing, but rather it's meant to be more polite - less obtrusive. Especially if you're just checking to see if you recognize someone by what they're wearing because you can't see their face.

[UnderSeven]

Looking is pretty important at least once.  If say that cloaked person came in with a two handed sword wielded you'd notice it, but the way code works, you WOULD't unless you look.  Some things are hard to miss but unless you look you would miss them.  So part of this is simply due to code issues.  The second part is if they are up to no good, they won't likely stick round for you to look at them later, but where as if they did do something up to no good, they would likely be hard to miss then too, a glance in real life is as little as a tilt of your head, in game it requires you to actually type something.

[spawnloser]

As long as this new command only shows what look would, I'd be fine with something new.

Still, there are other ways to look at people's stuff without letting them know...just, be clever about it.

[Tarx04]

I don't -always- look up at cloaked figures.  I do occasionally though.  Actually, that applies to everyone.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Because I want to. It's not my fault that there is an echo to look.

I still wish that they would remove the echo if there is not an emote attached to it. FOr example, l man would yeild no echo, but l man for a moment would show what is currently shown.

[da mitrey warrior]

I've never understood the group of people who wear their hoods all the time then get bent out of shape when people look at them.  They've been around ever since the hooded code came in.   I remember a few years ago being cussed out by someone OOCly for looking at him.

Maybe they're trying to be super anonymous with their hood + facewrap and got the idea in their head that other people arn't allowed to know who they are and therefore are forbidden to look at them.  

Or maybe they are the type that thinks that the the vast majority of the population of the major cities goes around wearing a hood 9 hours a day, 11 days a week.  This dispite the fact that nearly every single npc does not wear a hood, and not a single room desc that I know of mentions throngs of hooded people moving back and forth.  [Of course, in Red Storm the npcs wear hoods, but in the major cities I don't see much evidence for it.]

I, on the other hand, feel that wearing your hood up in a tavern is not normal.  People who stand around a tavern wearing their hood up are going to draw suspicion from the other people.  Hoods are associated with various evildoers, from thieves to raiders, so it is quite normal for people to be curious about hooded folk, and even quite normal for them to be suspicious or at least wary.

[flurry]

Look echoes have never really bothered me, and I never have really understood why they bother other people so much.

That said, I certainly don't look at everyone.

With hooded figures indoors, they are calling attention to themselves by wearing a hood.   It would almost be odd to -not- look at them in many cases.   Outdoors is different, though.

[Tmp]

Unfortunately, wearing facewrap/hood/whatever is NOT an "activate look shield!".

On a seperate note:

I look at everyone. Sometimes multiple times even over the course of a conversation. I like to do it, I don't know why. Maybe I don't have very good short term memory, but to me it's a function of keeping in my head who I'm talking to, and how the scene is being played out in the eye of my mind.

A look is just a look, especially without emotes. It doesn't signify anything. So I find it amusing that people find looking at everyone multiple times without emoting a jarring thing. When you talk to someone, do they like, not make eye contact with you at all, refuse to look apon any part of you, and stare pointedly at the table?

[SailorMars]

Because they're about to spam steal all my equipment including my keys, then go sell my furniture a piece at a time over the next few nights.

[sarahjc]

If you are wearing a hood/facewrap indoors.. Yes.. people are going to look at you.. especially in the nice bars and taverns.

If you are trying to "blend" wearing a face wrap and your hood up is not a good way to go about it.

Perhaps changing your l-desc to "The Pink Rhino sits here playing cards" would be.

But the " The short hooded figure in a long black linen cloak wearing a purple floral face wrap is standing here" is not..

The Description of that alone is two lines long! You stand out! Sorry. Wearing a hooded cloak, hood up indoors is like wearing sunglasses at night. People may not or should not be able to tell who you are.. But they -will- notice you.

I don't think look should have an echo.. But I don't see anything wrong with looking at people when you walk in a room. You are not invisable. Your head is just covered.

[sarahjc]

Duplicate

[naatok]

In a raspy voice, the tall hooded figure in a jet-black longcloak says, in sirihish:
    "Any o' you fuckin' faggots looks at me....I'll kill ya."

Adding, as if in afterthought, the tall hooded figure in a jet-black longcloak says, in sirihish:
    "Oh, and any o' you queers calls me Francis...I'll kill ya."

Rolling his eyes as he responds with a low growl, the dour-faced, blue-robed Templar says, in sirihish:
    "Lighten up, Francis."

[jhunter]

ROFL!! Heheh, you rule Monkey.

[Cowboy]

I thought Warren Oates said that in "Stripes"....

[Cuusardo]

If you're trying to be anonymous, of course people are going to want to know who you are.  People are curious, and even moreso suspicious of other people who are trying to conceal their identities.

Complaining about getting looked at a lot if you've got your hood up is like sitting in a tavern and doing something that is guaranteed to draw attention to yourself, then yelling at everyone who looks at you "DON'T LOOK AT ME!!!"  People are going to look.

[Agent_137]

just be considerate. Be aware that look does echo, regardless if you feel it should or not. This is regardless of the whole "am i suspiscious if I wear something to hide my face?" issue.

Take responsibility for your actions, just like in real life.

Look echos. So when you look at some one, they notice that you look at them. If you don't want them to know that you looked at them, don't look! If you don't want them to know, but you kinda wanna look at them....decide which you want more.

Look DOES echo. So just be aware of the scene you are creating. Don't expect them to ignore the looks...they -will- see them and have every right to act on them...however they see fit. If I walk into a bar and -everyone- turns to look at me, it will feel odd. My character would probably be like, "WHAT!? Can't a guy walk into a bar? Krath!" and then walk out. Maybe your character is different.

But just remember, look -does- echo. Be aware of what kind of action you are inputting into the scene. Look if your character would look. Don't if it's just you that wants to look. This is basic RP, i don't see why it's such an issue.

[jhunter]

It's an issue because some people think that having a hood up or facewrap on is cheap invisibility, they get pissed because they think you shouldn't be able to see anything at all about them which simply isn't true.

You just have no option but to do a direct look just to see the things that you might notice with a glance.
How would you know if someone walked into the room naked without looking at them? That's something you would probably notice immediately,but can't tell unless you look at them.
I just laugh it off when someone gets pissed IG for my pc looking at them...it's akin to someone with an attitude problem in RL that tries to pick a fight because someone looked at them...pretty ridiculous IMHO.

[Agent_137]

I just laugh it off when someone gets pissed IG for my pc looking at them...it's akin to someone with an attitude problem in RL that tries to pick a fight because someone looked at them...pretty ridiculous IMHO.

I agree, I agree, but since it echos, it's IG, which means all this is IC. if your character gets pissy for people looking at him, fine. If your character doesn't give two shits, fine. If your character thinks no one will notice him in a bar at a table with a hood up, but people do, because it's not storming -inside- fine.

Just keep OOC feelings out of this.

Oh, and when you are talking to some one, you necessarily look at them. If you are leaning on the bar watching the door, you look at everyone. If you are drinking at the bar talking to the bartender, you might notice some one walks in, but you likely wouldn't look. Unless you're the paranoid type, then look!

[sarahjc]

Look does have an echo.. Ok.. But I look at random people when I walk into a store, or a bar. I may look at ten people.. or twenty.. When you walk into the supermarket, do you keep your eyes to the ground and head straight for the bread ilse?? No.. you look around.. Its big and there are lots of interesting people about..

What I think is more important isdo you notice them looking at you.. Most likely.. not.

You look at the stock guy loading up shelves with paper towel wondering if they are all going to fall on him. You look at the Milf that just walked by in her short shorts and Baby cart.. You may give a flirtly look to the guy at the deli counter, or you may.. I mean just may.. give a suspect glance to the guy who is standing around on the milk ilse.. wearing a baseball cap, sunglasses and a hooded sweatshirt!

Why do I look at the guy wearing all that more than the guy reading a magazine and standing on line with his grocery cart??.. Because he doesn't fit in.. That's why... In fact I would expect everyone in the store to stare at him..

I would expect that if an undercover cop walked in to buy milk.. that he would follow that guy out the store.. Maybe even ask him.. Dude, why are you standing in the milk isle all this time wearing sunglasses a cap and your hood.. are you cold?

I say blend or don't complain. As Jhunter said, it is not an invisibility pass..  Should people know what your face looks like.. No.. but do they now know what your build is.. what weapon you may have on or what kind of boots and gloves you are wearing..Sure.

[The Whip]

I am Pro Hoodie and I dont really care if they keep looking at me because its fun to get funny reactions. :shock:

[TripleX]

Drawing their attention to look at me when wearing a hood while my partner is pocketing them... fancy that merchant!

[Callisto]

I think you're all looking at this thread the wrong way.

If Joe is wearing his hood and face wrap and standing in a corner, I can understand people looking on and being suspicious. My problem is when as soon as someone in a hood walks in, it's a knee jerk for people to turn and look regardless of the situation.

Do all chairs and tables turn to face the last person walked in? Is there a little bell that rings as soon as a PC walks in? We can't ALL have our backs to the corner so we can see the entire room, folks.

It's all about situation: Why do people turn and look no matter what?

The impression I get from the responses so far is that it is fine to ignore the in-character situation when it comes to looking at people. There is a lot of points against the extreme of people wearing hoods and veils in a tavern and how suspicious that is, but the situation issue is relatively untouched by most people. Either people misunderstood my post, or this is one of those realism issues we're fine with letting slide in favor of being the all seeing eyes of Zalanthas.

[Xygax]

I'm not sure I agree with you, Callisto.  Unfortunately, the look command often gives the impression of a hard stare, when it really isn't necessarily that at all.  I "look" at people entering and exiting rooms most of the time, regardless of whether they are hooded/masked/etc., just to see if they ARE the sort of person I'm likely to take more detailed notice of.  Unfortunately, this is one of the limitations of a text environment (a limitation that I don't truly feel would be fixed by a "glance" command, or similar variant):  people have to "look" at things in order to gather enough information about them to know whether to interact with them or NOT.

That cloaked/masked/etc. figures seem to be attracting more attention doesn't particularly surprise me, or strike me as necessarily incorrect, eitherr, but of course it depends on the environment.  In a seedy tavern, it might be unwise to stare too hard at anyone, especially someone overtly concealing their features, but that doesn't mean you might not draw more than your share of wary, sidelong glances.  In a more posh environment, you might get looks of obvious disapproval from people who think you owe them the courtesy of at least showing your eyes or your face when you approach them (or even occupy the same space as they do), or from their zealous bodyguards, who might think you're up to no good.

All-in-all, I think there is plenty of code support for people to walk about un-noticed, if they choose to do so, and if they don't choose to do so, then they should probably expect to get looked at (and yes, looked at more than might seem normal in an RL situation where the nuances of a short glance, or the attentiveness (lack thereof) of the viewee may make all the staring seem a lot less intense.  I know I people-watch all the time without often being noticed.

-- X

[Carnage]

I think you're all looking at this thread the wrong way.

If Joe is wearing his hood and face wrap and standing in a corner, I can understand people looking on and being suspicious. My problem is when as soon as someone in a hood walks in, it's a knee jerk for people to turn and look regardless of the situation.

Do all chairs and tables turn to face the last person walked in? Is there a little bell that rings as soon as a PC walks in? We can't ALL have our backs to the corner so we can see the entire room, folks.

It's all about situation: Why do people turn and look no matter what?

The impression I get from the responses so far is that it is fine to ignore the in-character situation when it comes to looking at people. There is a lot of points against the extreme of people wearing hoods and veils in a tavern and how suspicious that is, but the situation issue is relatively untouched by most people. Either people misunderstood my post, or this is one of those realism issues we're fine with letting slide in favor of being the all seeing eyes of Zalanthas.

People do the same fucking thing if they see a new sdesc.

Oh! Haven't seen that sdesc before. Have you?! Let's look!

[Maybe42or54]

~all~ of us don't, Calisto.
I hardly look at anyone until I throw out a few talks or emotes and then (if they are still around) I will look at them.
unless of course my Pc is looking for someone, and that someone in a cloak that they usually wear walks in, then hell yes, I am going to look.
if they are wearing a veil, mask, something else that obscures the face only, then yes i am going to look, because I do not think they should hide the entire Sdesc.

[Trenidor]

I don't look, and I'm proud of it.

Personally, I don't see why people do it either:

First off, everyone in teh world has at least a cloak, it's a weird trend, another thing I don't understand.

2nd, the tavern is filled with people

3rd, people go in and out of taverns all the time, it's just easier to keep your hood up the whole time

4th, not all Zalanthans are friendly people, IMHO, the only reason you'd pull it  down when you entered is if you were a friendly person. Oh, and all those idle sitters, I'm fine with them having their hood up, it just helps show that you aren't going to do a thing but sit there.

Picture a cheery guy comming into a tavern, hanging his hat at the door, then walking to the bar and sitting down.

Then there's teh gloomy guy, he comes in, leaves his hat on and trudges to the door.

So really, there's no reason to look at someone with their hood up
And, there's no reason to pull your hood down unless you are a cheery person, which some people aren't

[Xygax]

First off, everyone in teh world has at least a cloak, it's a weird trend, another thing I don't understand.

It's not that weird a trend.  Wandering about in a desert world without a cloak is folly at best, downright suicidal at worst, depending on how rough your life is.  Most people who don't have reliable housing will need at -least- a cloak, and even those who -do- have housing are still likely to worry about destroying their silky-smooth skin in the five minutes they tromp through the next sandstorm to their estate gates.

2nd, the tavern is filled with people

3rd, people go in and out of taverns all the time, it's just easier to keep your hood up the whole time

Easier for you to keep your hood up, and easier for me to keep an eye on the door.    I do this ALL the time in RL, and I'm not even a particularly paranoid person.  I just like to see who's about.  This would be even more the case if I were sitting in a tavern that I sit in every day when I'm not working.

4th, not all Zalanthans are friendly people, IMHO, the only reason you'd pull it  down when you entered is if you were a friendly person. Oh, and all those idle sitters, I'm fine with them having their hood up, it just helps show that you aren't going to do a thing but sit there.

Picture a cheery guy comming into a tavern, hanging his hat at the door, then walking to the bar and sitting down.

Then there's teh gloomy guy, he comes in, leaves his hat on and trudges to the door.

So really, there's no reason to look at someone with their hood up
And, there's no reason to pull your hood down unless you are a cheery person, which some people aren't

In all but the finest of establishments, your "cheery guy" is nearly guaranteed to leave without his hat, having got it rather easily stolen by hanging it at the door.

That aside, I still think you and Callisto are missing the point of "look", which is at least partly an OOC tool for gathering information about the world around you.  It turns out that sometimes this tool yields IC interaction, but it's up to you to make that determination.  Unless I'm blind or standing in the corner "Blair Witch"-style, I'm probably going to have a good chance of at least catching a glimpse of most of the people coming into the tavern (even if only by my peripheral vision).  As the player, how am I to know if someone truly catches my eye from that brief glimpse, if I am not allowed to "look" at them by some nebulous "rule" of roleplay which says that it somehow doesn't make sense?

-- X

[Ghost]

And, there's no reason to pull your hood down unless you are a cheery person, which some people aren't

I had a templar nearly kick my ass, just because I was walking with my hood up, when there was no sandstorm around.  So I guess, you have enough reason to keep your hood down.

[Quirk]

I had a templar nearly kick my ass, just because I was walking with my hood up, when there was no sandstorm around.  So I guess, you have enough reason to keep your hood down.

That doesn't mean the templar was right. Keeping your hood up to ward off the hot sun is a perfectly valid reason when you're outdoors; that thin covering is all that's between you and sunstroke. Of course, when you're indoors, things change. Most of us, if we wander into a pub or restaurant and have a seat with our friends, will take our coats off and relax a little. It's odd to see someone keeping their hood or umbrella up indoors.

My gripe with look is that it's the only means of getting a rough idea of what someone is wearing and what they look like, and it spams an echo which suggests the look is much more intensive than a passing glance - in short, it's something you'd notice. This, I find intrusive, particularly as it's by far one of the worst sources of tavern spam (if a hooded figure walks into a room with eight or nine PCs, RP more or less grinds to a halt as the looks flood the screen). You can sort of get round this by using assess -v to get a rough determination of the age and shape of the person before you and "look X's cloak", "look X's aba", "look X's ring" to try and work out any obvious affiliations, but that's still very clumsy and won't tell you if they're stark naked or wielding a weapon - which are things hard to miss with even the most casual glance.

To tie this in to another thread, I would love a glance command that told you, say, the cloak or torso location piece of clothing, what the person had in their hands, and maybe the first sentence of their ldesc, and didn't echo. It would cut down on the number of embarrassing mistakes made by those trying to avoid spamming others, and reduce the spam remarkably as it came into common usage. Additionally, its functionality could be hijacked so that a "look" at someone in hiding actually gave only  a glance's worth of information, rather than their full description (bringing the behaviour of scan more in line with the help file).

Quirk

[jstorrie]

Looking at everyone in the tavern isn't always wrong, but I would say that it sometimes is.  If you're embroiled in a heated conversation, or staring listlessly into the bottom of your drink, you're not watching the crowd.

On the other hand, there are plenty of people who like to just hang out, relax, and watch people at the bar, on both Zalanthas and Earth.

The problem right now is that most people aren't checking their looks.  If it's unrealistic for you to be scanning across the crowd, don't!  If you're paying rapt attention to Lord Templar Jim or chewing out your table of Byn Runners, you are likely focusing only on that, not popping your head up every other minute to look at people.

[sarahjc]

I like the idea of glance as a none-echo command, but I am not going to stop looking at people. I "look" at people all the time. In real life and in game.

Example:

My morning Subway ride (now that I am bridge and tunnel)

I look at a "girl"  on the train. I look at her shoes, I look at her hair and her eye makeup. I may eye her skirt and decide that I think it came from Ann Taylor and I should take a stop by there this afternoon because its cute. I do all this in maybe a second or two.. and then I look elsewhere.

Maybe at the guy with a red hooded sweatshirt on with his hood up, I then shift my bag closer to the front of my body because he looks a bit shady with his hood up and his head down on the train. This is New York, I don't really trust people that don't show there face, most likely they are up to no good if they don't want to be recognized.

Again, maybe a second and then away at the Spanish guy listening to his walkman really loud, I  take a look at it to see if it is one of the new Ipods. I see that it isn't and then I look somewhere else, maybe at my reflection on the glass..

Then when the doors open.. I look at every new person that walks on to the train.. Every-one...

All this maybe takes a minute?? And I would bet money that not a one of those people noticed me with anything more than a passing glance if they noticed me at all.

We all "Look" at people. And in game the only way to look at someone, if you don't know their sdesc is to use the look command. I'm not always going to use the command on people that I clearly know.. I  know who they are.. I know who they work for, and I most likely will have an idea of what they are wearing, however occasionally I do use it,  just incase something has changed or I want to see what they are wearing.

I see it as a command and not necessarily an invite for Rp. If anything, I would like to see more people -ignore- the look command instead of complain about it's use. Especially you shady folk with your hoods up.  

Now I am not going to auto look you when you step in.. I give at least a minute for you to step in, emote and take down your hood. If you don't I will most likely look you. But because your hood is up I will also  ignore what facial features are in your M-desc.  And guess what, if you do lower your hood I don't know you. I am going to look anyway. I just don't see the big problem with looking.


As Xygax said. It is the only way that you are going know anything about a person is to use look.. I just don't see the big deal.


The pink Rhino looks at you the moment you step into the room, peeking under your hood and spoiling all your super secretes.

:roll:

[Trenidor]

ONe of the reasons I make a bid deal about it is that it fowls up my RP when I get this:

Ten PCs in the tavern, I walk in:

so and so looks at you
Joe shmoe  looks at you
what's his face looks at you
Billybob looks at you
The bartender looks at you
Bingo the drunk looks at you
Dingleberry the bard looks at you
Stupidface the town olf looks at you
Mr Fancypants looks at you
Mrs Fancypants looks at you

SOME OF THEM ARE FACING A DIFFERENT DIRECTION!

It makes me do my old western kinda move...

(que western music)
emote steps across the wooden planked floor, his chaps flapping and his spurs dangling.

"Wiskey, sharp."
"I can't serve you here Butch, the whole town hates you"

bla bla and so I rp out that I did something wrong, just because everyone started looking at me.

I'd be better if (since look is part ooc) there was a ooc look, or at least people typed look ooc

Cuz, I use look some times to see if someone noticed me...if they didn't say anything, or didn't look, then I figure they weren't looking for me.

I also feel that people tend to abuse their ooc knoledge some, I know we've all done it at least once. (or a few times) They'd read some stuff that -should- be covered. And then they'd draw conclusions oocly and start RPing out stuff that shouldn't have happened.
If you're using look as an ooc, sure, it's fine to just look, but if you want to RP something, at least let me know you're going to tell your buddy that I have my sword in my hand right behind my cloak. If not, it's like forceRPing me so I have to RP WHY you noticed my dragontatoo under my shirt, or saw that wad of sid stuffed down my breasts. (I guess the second is reasonable, lots of guys look down people's breasts)

Maybe you're just looking at me cuz I have that aura, but apparently -everyone- has that aura, the one that makes the hair on the back of your neck lift up, or gives you goosebumps on your arms. The feelign that causes you to turn your head from talking to someone just so you can look at this creepy thing.

Maybe it's becuase we wear bright red shirts, which are quite common for commoners these days.

I really don't know!

[Bestatte]

Seems pretty simple to me - if you show up in a place populated by people who do -not- have hoods up or veils on their faces - and you -do- have one or the other - you are -going- to stand out like a sore thumb. As for everyone and their brother looking...think of it like this:

Joe and John at a table in the back. Joe is facing the wall. John is facing the entry.

Sue, Sally, and Sam are at the bar. Sam has his stool turned to watch the room, Sue and Sally are facing the bartender and the wall.

You walk in.

John looks up from his conversation from Joe, to look at you. This brings Joe to the conclusion that there is something behind his back worth looking at. He turns his head and looks at you too.

Sam is already watching the crowd - his gaze suddenly focuses in on -something- - so Sally and Sue both turn their heads because they're wondering what has suddenly grasped Sam's attention.

And so on and so forth. It's a domino effect. If something -not usual to that location- happens or appears, everyone will eventually look. Unfortunately - a lot of people will walk in and go UP or east or whatever without any pause whatsoever. Which isn't exactly realistic, but maybe they just don't think there's a need to RP walking from the entry at one end of the room to the curtain at the other end. No biggie - but then they have no right to complain when everyone immediately looks, because otherwise they'd miss your magickal appearance and disappearance.

[sarahjc]

When I walk into the tavern with my hood up I get the same thing.. especially if it is crowded..

In a flash, 4 people look at me. But I don't emote response unless they use the look emote combo. To me it's just filler.. like the spam that pops up when I move to the next room. Examples:

Look Rhino.

Or

Look Rhino with a suspicious glare.

Or
Emote glances over at ~Rhino eyeing the knife tucked in ^Rhino hand.
Look Rhino


The First I would ignore and just chalk it up to spam. The second two, the other person is giving a signal that they want you to notice them looking at you. The code is there to support what you want and don't want to notice. I still just don't see the problem.  Hey if you want to be a freak and notice half the eyes in the room looking up to the doorway.. Go ahead.. But the first thing that I do when I walk into a bar is look for my friends.. I don't really notice the rest of the people who take a moment to look at the new person. Now if they continue to stare... (emote)  Then you  have beef.

The pink Rhino walks into the disco Saloon with a hefty push of the swinging doors her face masked by a deep hood..

(a shit load of people look at you including the scrawny toothless heroine addict )

Glaring at every set of eyes that look up to meet hers she juts forward at the scrawny toothless heroine addict.

With a snarl as she pulls his limp form to her face she says in disco jive. " You eyeballin' me son!.. Are you eyeballin' me?!

The scrawny toothless heroine addict lifts his head limply up into the Pink Rhino's face with a dull look in his eyes and says," Hey man.. I  was just hopen' that you was my dealer so that I could get a fix.. Relax man..."

I say learn to ignore..

[Trenidor]

Seems pretty simple to me - if you show up in a place populated by people who do -not- have hoods up or veils on their faces - and you -do- have one or the other - you are -going- to stand out like a sore thumb.

Not really....

Picture this...a smaller person, and a tall person come in at the same time, the tall guy has his hood off, and comes in first.

The small person has his hood up (he's a head smaller than the tall one)

They both have the same cloak on, and since the big guy's in front, blocking the view, one could think that the small guy is just part of his cloak, or is one of the cloaks hanging by the door, or just not notice him cuz he's smaller than the tall guy.

Yet, whenever this happens, I still get those:

so and so looks at you
Joe shmoe looks at you
what's his face looks at you
Billybob looks at you
The bartender looks at you
Bingo the drunk looks at you
Dingleberry the bard looks at you
Stupidface the town olf looks at you
Mr Fancypants looks at you
Mrs Fancypants looks at you

Even if it's a half giant!

Did I miss reading the documentation that zalanthans can see through people?
I"m not saying stop looking at people all together, I just think -some- people use it in excess. There's really no reason some people would be looking, like the other day I saw someone at the bar with her head down [it was in their ldesc] First thing they did was look at me, then I came over to her and sat down, starting to talk with her. She then said she was in a bad mood. [Now, if -I- were mad, and had my head down, frankly I wouldn't want to go looking at anyone, but instead stare at the knife scratches on the bar. Who cares if someone comes by, I'm still mad]

Bringing up another question, why do you look at the hooded figure, instead of the elf that comes in? Elves come in without even a glance, but someone in a cloak comes in, and they get the look.

Sure some people wear their cloaks in taverns so they won't be noticed, but not everyone does, I really don't think people would be that suspicious of someone wearing a cloak. Even if the docs say they would, I Don't buy it; Everyone has a cloak, why pick on the guy that wears his inside?

Screw it I'm moving to Red Storm.

[sarahjc]

Dude,  You're splitting hairs now.. Half Giant?? in turn to that I could say that maybe you were standing in front of the half giant, or just to the side..

Unless you emote.

The such and such mysterious cloaked figure walks in dwarfed behind the shadow the massive half giant..

And as for your elf without the hood on. Well perhaps he wont get that much of a look, Because people may know the Sdesc..

But he may get a few dirty emotes.

People look at cloaked people because they want to know who you areor why you are looking all suspect like. You as the player are just going to have to deal with that and trust that they are choosing what to see and what not to see is IC. When you walk into Lord Fancy pants tavern and you sit at a table with your hood up while everyone else is drinking and smoking and chatting with hoods down and much more comfortable that you.. Expect to be looked at. You are standing out batman..

Just because I don't use the look comand does not mean that I don't know a PC came in.. It just may mean that I know who they are and don't need to use the comand.

If you don't want to be looked at, don't wear a hood. I promise people will look less. Or hey move to red storm.

[Trenidor]

People look at cloaked people because they want to know who you areor why you are looking all suspect like.

Exactly, now tell us why people think we look like a suspect....

I believe that's what this whole topic is about.

[Unicorn]

Warning -- semi-derailing post.  Read at your own risk.


Every time I go into the convenience store across the street from my work place I snicker.  In the door is a big sign which reads:  Remove all hoods or large hats before entering store.  

Sometime in the last week they also added:  And take off sunglasses.

I've never seen anything like this anywhere else in my life.  Makes me laugh everytime.  Anyway, I guess the shop owners find something inherently threatening about hoods.  They see a possible thief.  They want to see the faces.  Just like all the lookie-lou's in our taverns.

[Forest Junkie]

The entire concept is OOC. It has been admitted to us by several players whom -have- to look at everyone, regardless. This much as been established. My question: So what?

I can get worked up all I wish by having 15 pc's in a tavern looking at me soon as I step foot in said establishment, but it's really not that big a deal. It's ooc, and I treat it as such. For this reason alone, I know longer wear my hood up in a tavern, I simply drop it and let everyone know who I am. That way I'm not payed any attention to.

To sum up this entire thread: Don't fret. Just ignore it and go smoke a fatty.

[Bestatte]

When the elf without the hood walks in, I don't have to LOOK at him to know that he's the blond-braided puss-faced elf. The room echo does a nice job of telling me that just by virtue of him walking in. If I decide I want to know more about him, then sure I'll take a look at the guy. But I already have, at the very least, some knowledge about what he looks like by his sdesc.

The hooded figure - I don't know if it's male, female, what race, if it's a noble I'm supposed to acknowledge once he comes further in..if it's the assassin who I learned was out to kill me - nuttin. All I know is that it's a figure wearing a cloak.

HE STANDS OUT because he is trying to make himself inconspicuous, while the rest of the entire room is NOT trying to make themselves inconspicuous.

Yeesh.

[Forest Junkie]

Exactly, which is why I have my hood lowered always. I play reverse psychology with you mother fuckers, you just don't know it. End game, junkie wins by default.

[sarahjc]

People look at cloaked people because they want to know who you are or why you are looking all suspect like.

Exactly, now tell us why people think we look like a suspect....

I believe that's what this whole topic is about.

Does anyone feel a Catch 22 comming on.. *sigh*

People look at you because you have your hood up and think you are shady, but since your face cannot be seen under your hood, they should not bother to look. But they look because they cannot see your face.  Right???

Wrong...

The look is an OOC thing, not IC.. If you want it to be IC add an emote

look shady eyeing him suspicously.

But it is doubly sesitive for people in hoods. When you walk in, do you see ten people wearing a hood up?? Do you see NPC's with hoods up??

Probably not.  If you have a hood up in doors you have one of several conclusions.

1. You are trying to hide your face, for whatever reason, making you a shady person and one to take note of.
2. You are trying to take a nap and the dim light is bothering you.
3. You forgot to take it down when you walked in.
4. You are some dued that just likes to walk around with a hood up indoors.. You also speak with your invisable friend "moe"

People can idenify those around them with the short description. So if steven the elf sneeks by me and emotes that he bumps me on the way out and now my ubersword of greatness is gone.. I can say.. well I am not sure, but Steven the elf was in here before and he knocked into me on my way out.. Maybe he may have taken it..

But with Mr. Cloak.. He is just some guy in a cloak right.. No..

He may be a guy in a cloak with a sparkly Micheal Jackson glove..

He may have a pink boa on..

Then I can say.. as Mr. Cloak bumps me.. Well, I am not sure but that guy that was in here before.. he bumped me, maybe he took it.. I couln't get a good look at his face, but he did have a shinny MJ sparkle glove on.

But then again if I just took a quick look at you (without emote) I may not even note that much.. Unless you interact with me.


You stick out with a hood raised, it is not auto invisble..  If you don't want to be noticed, learn to sneak around...or leave that hood down.

[spawnloser]

Trenidor, if you're hiding behind a half-giant, use the hide command.

Otherwise, it is up to me to decide if I can see you.  It is that simple.

If I look at you, I made that decision.

[Realedazed]

Sometimes people would LOOK at my character as soon as she stepped through the door. I would hate that especially when I haven't even got a chance to "em So and so steps into the tavern...." It happened with or without a cloak or mask. I got over it since me getting upset wasn't going to change how people play.

I do like the GLANCE command. Or the LOOK that would only be echoed when you add something to it.

[Cenghiz]

When I play a half-giant, I do look at everyone, usually for a long time, with curiosity, mouth half open, drooling. When I play d-elf stuck inside a city for some reason, I keep my head bowed. When I play a merchant with two full-large-bags of stuff to sell, I especially turn my chair to the exit and do look at everyone entering. When I play the ranger, I hardly look at people when they push the seat to sit by me.
But some people look at anyone, some people look at hooded figures, even they carefully keep their gazes on the hooded, some people counter-look when anyone looked at them. We can't know if they had the IC reason. So... Bah, I guess I have to say that. We have to suck it up.

[Anonymous]

Well I mean, if you walk into a bar IRL (or in one of those saloons in the old western movies) - everyone's going to look at you anyway. I mean you're a new face, even if you frequented the tavern every day at the same time without fail, people will -still- look at you. Just becuase you have the 'hinderance' of seeing the syntax of PC's looking at you doesn't mean you have to take it IC. Sure people do it, and it's annoying, but it's all IC, just like any other thing. Just imagine if you could see all the VNPC and NPC people looking at you...you're zmud would crash  :wink:

[Geekfreak]

Ya, I hate this too. I know whenevr I'm in a tavern or in the busy streets, I really don't give a damn what kind of helmet a cloaked figure is wearing or how many visible tattooes they have on them. Especially when I'm in a tavern speaking to someone, I never look away because a tall figure in a sandcloth cloak has entered the tavern. And if the person who I'm talking to looks away and looks at this cloaked person, I actually role-play that I'm offended cause they can't listen to me without looking around the room. Try stuff like that. It works sometimes.

I dunno...whatever

-GF

[Leonidas]

The current character I have now, I like to emote walking through the tavern, examining many patrons (with a watchful eye) and I keep hooded alot too.


Andrew

[Tamarin]

I do it to people because I -know- it pisses them off.

[Krath]

I look at everyone that walks in. I do it a lot in
RL also. I like to face the doorway so I know
who is coming in and leaving and it also makes
it easier to notice and get a glance at the shady
characters who walk in. In RL and In Game. Some
people enjoy being aware of what is going on
around them. I know I do :-D

[sjanimal]

I think people raise a lot of good points in this discussion, but there is one thing that has been left out.

Sure, it's natural to be curious about some person who walks into a fine restaurant, all bundled up so you cannot see them.

But if you go into a shady bar, and start starring at everyone who is wearing a cloak...it's a good way to end up dead.  Try going into a biker bar sometime, and you'll realize that the difference between having a good time and a bad time lies largely in where you let your eyes wander.  

I guess my point is that when people go into Zalantha's shadier bars with a hood on, they want to be left alone.  They probably have leprosy or something.  And if by chance they are the leader of a LABRYNTH street gang, you don't want to be starring at them unless you are insane.

In conclusion, I don't think you should stare at people in shady bars unless they call attention to themselves, or you are crazy.

[sarahjc]

From an old tpoic "should I notice hooded figures"

I'm going to take a stab at this one.  I can't say that I don't notice cloaked figures in taverns, but I consider them less common in some places than others.

Examples:

Should there really be a -lot- of cloaked figures in the Sanctuary.. IMHO..No, Its an upscale watering hole with pretty stain glass windows and pristine marble flooring. Most people who patronize that pub, would most likely be the type that are OK with being noticed, look to be noticed even. After all, it is affluential joint, where the creme-de-la -crème of the Sun King's Ivory City congregate. I think Chosen Lord Fancypants in his purple polyester suit and his entourage of guards, aides and assistants would be a tad bit unnerved, if not uncomfortably displeased if the place was teaming with skulking masses of people in hooded cloaks. Maybe even just one or two would raise a brow and cause him to question the person(s). Hell, that guy will yell at you if you walk in with a spot of blood on your cap. And why shouldn't he? So if this is the type of setting the place represents, then once again IMHO there should be no reason that an NPC cloaked figure should be there. And the PC ones that do go there.. should have reason.

Fire storm pub. Where the drunken rabble, skiving filth and those known to have a low brow mentality may enjoy a shared drink, smoke, fight.. and occasionally a few other things..  :roll: A place where the hunter, the pickpocket, filthy misfortunate, the raiders and unconsciously drunk can hang their heads and their hats at the door. Would I expect this place to have as many hooded cloaked shady characters as it does flees? Yes. Most of the aristocratic types in this pretty city would probably not dare step foot in the shabby huts sandy doorway, much less even think to splinter their asses on her rickety old chairs. Unless of course it was to do some shady business of their own, in which they might shroud their own heads and don a hood. In fact, not only would I not question the shady character in the back corner of this filthy brew house, sitting at a dim table with his hood up, I'd probably avoid him.


Just my take on things..

Basically I think it is fine to have youru hood up and expect  people not to look at you in the shadier places like the Gaj or the Firestorm.. Because those -are- the kinds of places you would not stand out as a cloaked figure.